AA still not good enough.

[mil71]

You can focus all your AA into one sector plus catapult fighter and the aircraft carriers aircraft always gets through.

Long range flak takes too long to engage because it has a delay and then the smaller AA barely scratches the aircraft and they can just linger around being scratched.

The Groz used to wreck enemy aircraft now that also barely touches them.

Wargaming definitely needs to buff AA even more and make it so AA sector sticks and make long range AA fire up faster.

[Zuihou_Kai]

So back to 8.5?

[Redcap375]

5 minutes ago, mil71 said:

You can focus all your AA into one sector plus catapult fighter and the aircraft carriers aircraft always gets through.

Long range flak takes too long to engage because it has a delay and then the smaller AA barely scratches the aircraft.

Wargaming definitely needs to buff AA even more.

 

Don't go there, not worth the agro.

 

We have stated this many, many, many, many times and WG don't care.

 

You see they have designed the new CV's to ALWAYS drop regardless.  Openly admitted it. which is simply daft as one AP bomb can ruin most ships days. 

 

So mine and everyone else's advice is don't spec a single thing on dedicated AA skills/mods unless there isn't anything else to put it on. It's simply not worth it.

 

You/they can avoid flack.  The only thing that is truly good AA wise is fighter ship planes, but they often engage AFTER the initial drop and doesn't always kill the planes. 

 

[LordTareq]

The only way to wipe out an entire wing before they can attack is with a good flak-cruiser using the AA consumable. In every other situation its a matter of doing so much damage that the carrier will pick another target afterwards.

 

[El2aZeR]

That's the CV rework working as intended alright.

If you think that's stupid and broken, well yes, that is precisely how it is supposed to be.

[Redcap375]

4 minutes ago, LordTareq said:

The only way to wipe out an entire wing before they can attack is with a good flak-cruiser using the AA consumable. In every other situation its a matter of doing so much damage that the carrier will pick another target afterwards.

 

 

Wrong.

 

A Des will get hit regardless if he has every skill and mod AA wise under the sun, sector selection and including defensive AA running.

 

The Atlanta is even worse. 

 

Tried and tested. Hit by a Enterprise AP and health striped off like nothing.

 

WG want it that way to sell CV's to the masses. 

[mil71]

In my Groz it's built to be AA.

Ribbons and everything and a Midway comes after me and now I barely scratch his squadron.

Before a Midway had to THINK about attacking me because I could easily rip his aircraft to shreds the moment he came into range now he can linger around and do like half of my HP or more.

[atlasapl]

I had a game in my Gascogne earlier today. The fact I did 100k damage isn't the important part. What was more interesting was the fact I did over 47k damage (on top of that) to aircraft alone, and shot 33 of them down. Did I take a torp or two? Yes. Did I take a bomb or two, again yes. But the carrier player kept on coming and trying his/her best.  That was with a 12 point captain, without either BFT or AFT.

 

Clearly A.A. is working somewhere.

[Redcap375]

1 minute ago, mil71 said:

In my Groz it's built to be AA.

Ribbons and everything and a Midway comes after me and now I barely scratch his squadron.

Before a Midway had to THINK about attacking me because I could easily rip his aircraft to shreds the moment he came into range now he can linger around and do like half of my HP or more.

 

Defensive AA and BFT.  That is all i have on my Groz and i love the ship.

 

That is the most you need as any more doesn't make a difference. 

 

BFT with reload anyway and Defensive AA comes free.

 

It's alright against tier 8 CV's, for a DD that is but a tier 10 will get 2 drops at least against it anyway.

 

And yes, that was the past and yes, a Groz used to shred planes, like the KIDD.

 

But people cried that CV's were too strong (massive laugh) and wanted change and he we have it, the rework. 

 

[El2aZeR]

5 minutes ago, mil71 said:

In my Groz it's built to be AA.

 

Well, there's part of the issue. AA build is worthless now.

Also Grozo AA is about equivalent to T5-6 nowadays. To even try to get it to a level acceptable for T10 is outright impossible.

 

3 minutes ago, atlasapl said:

Clearly A.A. is working somewhere.

 

Yes. It is working against the overwhelming number of potato CVs.

Against actually skilled CV players however there are no counterplay options.

[HaachamaShipping]

2 minutes ago, mil71 said:

In my Groz it's built to be AA.

Ribbons and everything and a Midway comes after me and now I barely scratch his squadron.

Before a Midway had to THINK about attacking me because I could easily rip his aircraft to shreds the moment he came into range now he can linger around and do like half of my HP or more.

CVs working as intented.

1 minute ago, atlasapl said:

I had a game in my Gascogne earlier today. The fact I did 100k damage isn't the important part. What was more interesting was the fact I did over 47k damage (on top of that) to aircraft alone, and shot 33 of them down. Did I take a torp or two? Yes. Did I take a bomb or two, again yes. But the carrier player kept on coming and trying his/her best.  That was with a 12 point captain, without either BFT or AFT.

 

Clearly A.A. is working somewhere.

That's more like messing up and eating flak. Or maybe some Ark Royal.

[Redcap375]

4 minutes ago, atlasapl said:

I had a game in my Gascogne earlier today. The fact I did 100k damage isn't the important part. What was more interesting was the fact I did over 47k damage (on top of that) to aircraft alone, and shot 33 of them down. Did I take a torp or two? Yes. Did I take a bomb or two, again yes. But the carrier player kept on coming and trying his/her best.  That was with a 12 point captain, without either BFT or AFT.

 

Clearly A.A. is working somewhere.

 

And how was that tier 6 CV 

 

Ark Royal by any chance with tier 4 planes?

[mil71]

I shot down 54 aircraft in my Bismarck against two carriers it doesn't mean AA is working as intended it means the CV's was bad.

I even raced to them and destroyed them both while dodging the torpedoes.

[MadBadDave]

Another clear indication that the Rework, AA is a pile of poo, add in MM and countless other complaints and what does WG do about it; get an italian cruiser.

 

SORT THE FUNDAMENTALS OUT FIRST !!!

 

What did WG do immediately do after the cv rework; yep buy a premium cv.

 

Will they have sorted it out No, have a Italian cruiser soon and then have a sub.       Hands up who thinks if subs are as bad as Cv's, WG gives us lots of expensive premium subs and we'll still be talking about subs and the cv rework in another year ???.

[oosel]

only thing I ever manage to get through to a mino with my hakuryu is torp planes...……..with rocket planes and especially dive bombers im shredded before I even get to the dive phase. I don't go near them at all any more

[Xevious_Red]

15 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Yes. It is working against the overwhelming number of potato CVs.

Against actually skilled CV players however there are no counterplay options.

The question then really is what % of CV players are "skilled enough" to not be affected by AA?

 

Because if its only 1% then that means its working 99% of the time. If 50% of CV players are good enough then it only works half the time.

It's a matter of opinion if it needs to be 100%, or if 99% "will do".

 

I don't know if there's a way of judging how many are "good enough" - I know personally AA doesn't really bother me in a CV, but equally most CV seem to be terrible (personal observation)

[BLUB__BLUB]

26 minutes ago, mil71 said:

In my Groz it's built to be AA.

Ribbons and everything and a Midway comes after me and now I barely scratch his squadron.

Before a Midway had to THINK about attacking me because I could easily rip his aircraft to shreds the moment he came into range now he can linger around and do like half of my HP or more.

Main reason for this is "working as intended". WG ruled that the LAST plane in the squad gets SHOT FIRST.

This means, your ship shoots at te planes that are not attacking... while your AA starts nibbling away at the LAST plane, the first plane puts some bombs on you.

 

Yeah man... I couldn't believe it and had to read it 3 times, before the reality of that got through my brain.

If I can avoid your FLAK bursts... then I can launch whatever, while you start at the rearmost plane.

Means if I have enough "reserve" to at as a damage sponge, I'll torp/bomb/rocket you anyway.

 

SO:

 

Enjoy attacking my "spares/backup/second/third wave"... while the first three get through unless you shoot all the rest first.

 

 

[Egoleter]

53 minutes ago, mil71 said:

You can focus all your AA into one sector plus catapult fighter and the aircraft carriers aircraft always gets through.

Long range flak takes too long to engage because it has a delay and then the smaller AA barely scratches the aircraft and they can just linger around being scratched.

The Groz used to wreck enemy aircraft now that also barely touches them.

Wargaming definitely needs to buff AA even more and make it so AA sector sticks and make long range AA fire up faster.

So you want immunity from planes? Anything less isn't acceptable?

[22cm]

Why even bother?! CV rework is a complete fukcup.

[valrond]

56 minutes ago, mil71 said:

You can focus all your AA into one sector plus catapult fighter and the aircraft carriers aircraft always gets through.

Long range flak takes too long to engage because it has a delay and then the smaller AA barely scratches the aircraft and they can just linger around being scratched.

The Groz used to wreck enemy aircraft now that also barely touches them.

Wargaming definitely needs to buff AA even more and make it so AA sector sticks and make long range AA fire up faster.

So, if a lone ship is capable of killing off every plane on the first pass, why would anyone bother to even play CVs at all?. AA is too strong already, nearly every attack is a suicide attack, you get one attack, maybe a 2nd pass if the ship is alone and it has crap AA, but that's it.

[BLUB__BLUB]

13 minutes ago, valrond said:

So, if a lone ship is capable of killing off every plane on the first pass, why would anyone bother to even play CVs at all?. AA is too strong already, nearly every attack is a suicide attack, you get one attack, maybe a 2nd pass if the ship is alone and it has crap AA, but that's it.

No that's not true. I can strike ANY ship I want in the T8, even T10 Mino or Worcester or DM or whatever.

I'll NOT DO THAT because there are more tasty objects... costing less plane vs more damage.

Just depends on how you do it. A half-dead-HE-spammed-Mino is still a risk, but can be "done good". 

 

Don't even think about it if you're no good at avoiding the FLAK, or crappy at aiming.

It won't be worth it. 

 

But if a full-health Mino is sitting ~ 500 m behind an island broadside... hell yeah. Torps it is.

Same a full health Des Moines bowcamping... there is such a thing as slingshotting some bombers... 

[Lieut_Gruber]

18 minutes ago, Egoleter said:

So you want immunity from planes? Anything less isn't acceptable?

Indeed. I want immunity from citadels in my CA, and immunity from torps in my BB. Ow, and plz make them immune to fires also. If i spec into fire prevention i still get set on fire, totally unacceptable! 

[Redcap375]

1 hour ago, valrond said:

So, if a lone ship is capable of killing off every plane on the first pass, why would anyone bother to even play CVs at all?

 

You didn't play RST CV's did you? 

[HaachamaShipping]

1 hour ago, Xevious_Red said:

The question then really is what % of CV players are "skilled enough" to not be affected by AA?

 

Because if its only 1% then that means its working 99% of the time. If 50% of CV players are good enough then it only works half the time.

It's a matter of opinion if it needs to be 100%, or if 99% "will do".

 

I don't know if there's a way of judging how many are "good enough" - I know personally AA doesn't really bother me in a CV, but equally most CV seem to be terrible (personal observation)

What is "not affected?" There still is differences between people who fly into every flak cloud, people who fly occassionally into one, people who can dodge most of the time, but get overwhelmed when they see too many explosions, people who miscalculate their approach and get wrecked as a result and Touhou master unicums.

[invicta2012]

2 hours ago, mil71 said:

Wargaming definitely needs to buff AA even more and make it so AA sector sticks and make long range AA fire up faster.

We keep on at this subject.... As long as Plane AA interaction is about shooting planes down it will never be balanced. 

 

If strong short range AA made it more difficult to land a hit (rather than doing damage) then all the rest of it would make sense. But it doesn't.