World of Warships - Roll the Dice

[Afghanicus]

I mean seriously... what the F is going on with all the "chances" of getting something lately?

 

Why is WG forcing the gambling so much upon the players?

 

I'm perfectly fine with premium stuff and the need to pay for it. You have a XXXXX ship and it costs XXXXX doubloons. There is an exact price for that particular ship or whatever it is (doesn't even need to be a ship).

 

But when you're buying premium containers with doubloons (real money) and you get a freakin' chance to get a ship or something else... that's just nonsense.

 

I'm not even affected personally because I would NEVER EVER gamble with such BS offers from WG, thank you very much.

 

But it does strike a nerve when this is becoming a standard way of pushing the "new exciting stuff". And then they will gladly repeat how they listen to the players and try their best to make the game the better place for all. Bunch of BS.

 

Nobody ever asked for RB, nobody ever asked for gambling with virtual boxes for a chance of getting something. Just drop it FFS.

 

Come up with a simple system where you know exactly what you're getting and how much it costs. Then the player can evaluate if that's worth it or not. It's fair and square.

 

And we perfectly now that those chances are slim to none anyways. We had plenty of players (even on YouTube) opening dozens and dozens of boxes during last 'French Destroyer" update and getting nothing out of it. Then you have to purchase bloody premium boxes for "a better chance" of getting something. Then you chances probably increase from 0.2% to 2%. Yeah, we can only assume that based on our experiences because you'll never give us even approximate chance % of getting something.

 

TL;DR: Premium stuff for real money is fine as long as you know what you're getting for that specific amount. Forcing gambling for "a chance" or "a better chance" of getting something with stupid (premium) containers is a bunch of BS.

[Inappropriate_noob]

Totally agree with you, but you just know someone will say no one is forcing you to do xyz, just as it is me who usually does xyz, lol

[Panocek]

Spreadshiet says lootboxes surprise mechanics are the most engaging and give the most profits

[wot_2016_gunner]

Man, you don't know how much I agree with you. I'm f2p, and in a few days it will be almost a year since I registered, but I still haven't spent a single Euro in anything, all I have right now (even some premium ships) I got it completely for free, with "blood, sweat and tears"

[hgbn_dk]

18 minutes ago, wot_2016_gunner said:

Man, you don't know how much I agree with you. I'm f2p, and in a few days it will be almost a year since I registered, but I still haven't spent a single Euro in anything, all I have right now (even some premium ships) I got it completely for free, with "blood, sweat and tears"

Then its good someone else pays so you can play....

[Afghanicus]

29 minutes ago, wot_2016_gunner said:

Man, you don't know how much I agree with you. I'm f2p, and in a few days it will be almost a year since I registered, but I still haven't spent a single Euro in anything, all I have right now (even some premium ships) I got it completely for free, with "blood, sweat and tears"

Well, in the same boat as you. I joined 2 weeks after you and I'm 100% f2p.

 

But as I said, I'm perfectly fine with premium stuff, they have to pay the staff and bills. But the RNG boxes are not a way to do it.

 

I have Benham for example. I worked my a$$ off to get it but I knew what I was going into. I knew exactly how much I need to grind in order to get it. The ones that didn't want or didn't have time to grind knew exactly how many premium containers they have to buy in order to get the tokens for Benham. It was all known in advance. Fair and square. You can either f2p grind your a$$ off, you can pay for boxes/tokens or you can just ignore it and move on.

 

With latest events you don't know what you're getting or why you're grinding your a$$ off. Do this, do that, complete this many directives, buy this many boxes, blah blah and you MIGHT get a CHANCE of getting SOMETHING. If there was an assured "RNG-proof" prize that after opening 10 boxes or so you MUST get something but no... I've seen players opening dozens and dozens and getting nothing.

 

During the last 'French Destroyer' event I've opened more than 20 containers and got nothing. Others opened even more and still got nothing. At least I didn't pay anything for it. I can only feel (not empathy though) for the ones paying real money for the (premium) containers and still getting nothing. They are the ones who get frustrated the most without even realizing that they are the ones directly supporting this kind of BS.

[VIadoCro]

It was this sentence that upset me:

 

Spoiler

 

I am a cruiser-main, love the low-and mid-tiers and was happy to hear the Genova will be a reward-ship. But intsead it´s a frecking Gamble-ship.

I can play a lot, do many missions and still get no Genova. Or maybe... if i pay... i might get her ... or maybe not.

 

In the end i will handle it like i did with the French event: not bother, just play as i am in the mood, and if one day there is a new ship in port then yeiii! if not ... well, then not 

 

I will certainly not support gambling by buying lootboxes in a game that´s allowed for kids to play. And if some apologist comes to defend WG: what is this if not gambling:

Spoiler

 

[Major_Damage225]

The "loot" gambling boxes are just that, you have a tinytiny bit of chance that you may get a ship, the buisness end of the scheme is to entice you to try, just like casinos, everything in a casino is rigged so the odds are in theyr favour, not yours, since a casino is a buisness of making money, not for giving it, the same applies here, here and there someone wins something so the lure of (x person won y etc) is there for others, so they say "lets try, mabe i get lucky" 

Everytime i buy any box, i buy it knowing the chances are waay against me, but i buy one or two for the gamble and not for the content, the contente is just a sort of stimulant if i get nothing, ok i was a beanbrain for doing it, if i strike lucky and get something, they yaay, but always in the back of my head is the knowing im paying for a spinn of the wheel that is there to earn profit for the company that owns it, not to give me rewards because theyr generous. 

Im not defending wg, but it's just another way for them to make money. 

And since allot of people may give the one box a try, it quickly adds up into nice sums. 

My 2 cents on the topic. 

[Afghanicus]

2 hours ago, Major_Damage225 said:

The "loot" gambling boxes are just that, you have a tinytiny bit of chance that you may get a ship, the buisness end of the scheme is to entice you to try, just like casinos, everything in a casino is rigged so the odds are in theyr favour, not yours, since a casino is a buisness of making money, not for giving it, the same applies here, here and there someone wins something so the lure of (x person won y etc) is there for others, so they say "lets try, mabe i get lucky" 

Everytime i buy any box, i buy it knowing the chances are waay against me, but i buy one or two for the gamble and not for the content, the contente is just a sort of stimulant if i get nothing, ok i was a beanbrain for doing it, if i strike lucky and get something, they yaay, but always in the back of my head is the knowing im paying for a spinn of the wheel that is there to earn profit for the company that owns it, not to give me rewards because theyr generous. 

Im not defending wg, but it's just another way for them to make money. 

And since allot of people may give the one box a try, it quickly adds up into nice sums. 

My 2 cents on the topic. 

That's fine, I can somewhat agree with you on most points.

 

However, gambling should be focused on some "secondary" stuff, not the most important one - new ship line. Wouldn't you agree?

 

WG makes a whole update which is solely focused on a specific line of a specific nation and then you hide the core of the update (the ships themselves) behind gambling and premium loot boxes which might get you a ship but probably won't. Does that seem like a good way of presenting a new line of ships in WOWs and respecting the players wanting to get early access? Didn't think so.

 

As "VladoCro" said, I won't bother with this one as I didn't bother with the previous one. I hope I'll still be able to get some doubloons like I did during the last event and that's it. I don't care about the early access anyways, I own less than 10% of the ships available (probably even less but I don't have the numbers of all ships available) and no need to focus on those but as I said - it strikes a nerve when I see WG pushing the gambling so hard on the players. And then claiming they listen to us and love to hear our feedback. How is the feedback on the gambling boxes and new lines being locked behind "a chance of getting something" and "a higher chance of getting something?" Spreadsheets saying players love it, right? M'kay.

 

Maybe it's me and the fact that I never gambled and think it's a dumb way of wasting money and a shortcut to huge life problems. Talking in general, not specifically to WG's gambling but still...

 

P.S. WOWs is for 18+ only, right? It says when you're registering that you must be 18 or older, right? Does a WG keeps statistics of how many younger guys are playing their game? All legal, all under control, right? Good, good. Just checking for a friend of mine.

[Major_Damage225]

27 minutes ago, Palubarac said:

However, gambling should be focused on some "secondary" stuff, not the most important one - new ship line. Wouldn't you agree?

Completly agree with you on this, if you get socondary things that are usefull for you'r enjoiment of the game with the main ''bait'' that you might get a bigger reward ok, but if you dont get the ''big reward'' you always come out with multiple litler things that in the long run help you out for the money you spent. 

 

27 minutes ago, Palubarac said:

WG makes a whole update which is solely focused on a specific line of a specific nation and then you hide the core of the update (the ships themselves) behind gambling and premium loot boxes which might get you a ship but probably won't. Does that seem like a good way of presenting a new line of ships in WOWs and respecting the players wanting to get early access? Didn't think so.

It's just another was to intice players to ''try theyr luck'' with the boxes, personally i never found it logical to gamble for early acess when you can normally grind the line ina week or two. Again just a way for WG entice players top spend money and thus make a profit. 

 

27 minutes ago, Palubarac said:

Maybe it's me and the fact that I never gambled and think it's a dumb way of wasting money and a shortcut to huge life problems. Talking in general, not specifically to WG's gambling but still...

The fact you never gambled is only a good thing for you, gambling is always a bad way to waste money, like in my casino comparison, it's just a way to intice people that have money to spare to make them part with some of it, not nesesary ina good way for them ,but again, it's the gambling buisness, in the end all about making a profit, sideffect is it drags some that dont or cant afford to spend money in the vague hope that they may ''hit the jackpot'' 

27 minutes ago, Palubarac said:

P.S. WOWs is for 18+ only, right? It says when you're registering that you must be 18 or older, right? Does a WG keeps statistics of how many younger guys are playing their game? All legal, all under control, right? Good, good. Just checking for a friend of mine.

From what i know or can remeber (correct me if im wrong) its actually a 12+ game rating at least thats how its rated on common sence media, why do you think WoWs dosent have crewmwbers on deck or any gore to it, it would ruin the PG rating of it. 

[Hanse77SWE]

11 minutes ago, Major_Damage225 said:

From what i know or can remeber (correct me if im wrong) its actually a 12+ game

Pegi 7 actually.

[El2aZeR]

Meanwhile at WG:

 

[Major_Damage225]

8 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Meanwhile at WG:

 

It's not good, but it aint bad either 

[bratisla_boy]

Il y a 5 heures, Hanse77SWE a dit :

Pegi 7 actually.

With gambling mechanics like this, it should be revised. I allowed my 10 year old son to play the game, now I may have second guesses.

[Exocet6951]

1 hour ago, bratisla_boy said:

With gambling mechanics like this, it should be revised. I allowed my 10 year old son to play the game, now I may have second guesses.

The in-game store and credit card number memorizing option is clearly just a coincidence, and not at all designed to make it as easy as possible to buy stuff in 15 seconds flat. 

 

Having the store be vastly more fluid than the game's interface is totally not representative of WG's priorities. 

[Europizza]

2 hours ago, bratisla_boy said:

With gambling mechanics like this, it should be revised. I allowed my 10 year old son to play the game, now I may have second guesses.

I think it's a disgrace how the gaming industry feeds on kids with gambling and addiction targetted design in their games.

 

 <- this is not okay, it should read 18+

[Excavatus]

per definition, to call something gambling, you should get out of something well below the worth of what you paid or get back nothing at all.

Means, risking your money to get a chance of winning way above worth of your money.

 

Don't get me wrong,
I hate loot box mechanics. Not in wows only, but in all games.

I confess I spent way more than I intended in the past especially in some other game.

 

But for my opinion, they are not gambling. Yes they work on the same human behavioral mechanisms,

but you don't have a risk to lose your money. One way or the other, you are getting your money's worth.

Not being the thing you wanted, does not make you lost your money :) in reality...

[Afghanicus]

5 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

per definition, to call something gambling, you should get out of something well below the worth of what you paid or get back nothing at all.

Means, risking your money to get a chance of winning way above worth of your money.

 

Don't get me wrong,
I hate loot box mechanics. Not in wows only, but in all games.

I confess I spent way more than I intended in the past especially in some other game.

 

But for my opinion, they are not gambling. Yes they work on the same human behavioral mechanisms,

but you don't have a risk to lose your money. One way or the other, you are getting your money's worth.

Not being the thing you wanted, does not make you lost your money :) in reality...

Are you being serious? I understand you're a Moderator, part of WG staff or whatever. That doesn't mean that what you say has any more weight than the common sense of the players who are agreeing with me.

 

I know they are not calling it gambling but it's exactly that - GAMBLING. An gambling for kids since it's "Pegi 7". 

 

You don't risk to lose your money? You are losing your money for a chance of getting something. That's not gambling? Come on, let's talk facts and not BS.

 

By your logic, casinos are not gambling either. You don't have to go inside a casino, you don't need to lose your money and in return you will still get something, at least a free drink and a good female company smiling at you while you waste your money...

 

WG's new system is no different from any gambling system that exists in the world. And which is prohibited for anyone younger than 18/21 (depending on the part of the world).

[BanzaiPiluso]

You may get something, but is not in the same scale as the value of the money you are expending.

 

[Nibenay78]

5 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

But for my opinion, they are not gambling. Yes they work on the same human behavioral mechanisms,

but you don't have a risk to lose your money. One way or the other, you are getting your money's worth.

Not being the thing you wanted, does not make you lost your money :) in reality...

 

That could be dependent on how you define gambling. I would hazard a guess that one has a spesific wish in mind (such as getting a certain ship) when buying loot boxes. Since you can not be sure what you are getting, I'd call that a gamble. Also if you get something you don't want, it's effectively lost money even if you did get something of an equal value.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loot_box#Player_investment_and_gambling_concerns

[CptBarney]

5 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

per definition, to call something gambling, you should get out of something well below the worth of what you paid or get back nothing at all.

Means, risking your money to get a chance of winning way above worth of your money.

 

Don't get me wrong,
I hate loot box mechanics. Not in wows only, but in all games.

I confess I spent way more than I intended in the past especially in some other game.

 

But for my opinion, they are not gambling. Yes they work on the same human behavioral mechanisms,

but you don't have a risk to lose your money. One way or the other, you are getting your money's worth.

Not being the thing you wanted, does not make you lost your money :) in reality...

You gamble your money to get a certain prize, you then either get said prize you want (win) or you dont (loss).

 

so yes it is gambling and gambling does not need to be purely money only. You can gamble based on tactics in war, during a fight, during a test, gamble precious items to do whatever you need to but with a chance (usually high) to fail regardless.

 

Essentially these digital items are only as worth as the code they are written in and if they can actually be sold outside its current digital environment (see csgo).

 

Heres the definition for gambling.

 

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/gambling

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambling

https://www.britannica.com/topic/gambling

 

For example if theres a loot box for tier 9 prems and you really, really want a musashi and you spend the amount for the crate and you get flags then you have lost your money and gained nothing from it since that wasn't what you wanted in general. You keep doing this over and over and over and over, losing and risk huge amounts of money while getting nothing of value in return nor the thing you wanted in general.

 

[Excavatus]

2 minutes ago, Palubarac said:

Are you being serious?

Yes

 

2 minutes ago, Palubarac said:

part of WG staff or whatever

no I'm not, I'm just a forum volunteer. Like all the other moderators.

2 minutes ago, Palubarac said:

That doesn't mean that what you say has any more weight

You are absolutely right.

 

3 minutes ago, Palubarac said:

You don't risk to lose your money?

No you don't,

you are getting something worth of your money. You don't know i before hand. 

It is like, you give me 5 euros, and I will give you a 5 euros worth of bread or beer or bubblegum. Or you can even get a 50 euros worth bicycle. You can't know.

You wan't the bicycle? too bad you get the bubblegum..

You didn't lose your money :) you get 5 euros worth of bubble gum for 5 euros you paid :)

 

And please read carefully,

I hate them too, because they work on the same principle human behaviour.

People like to get something out of nothing, but they get nothing out of something instead :) (quote from the book ModernConMan)

And again, read carefully, I was just stating my own personal opinion.

People may think that otherwise, which I totally respect,

and thinking diffrently than them, does not give me the right to call their opinions BS...

am I wrong?

[VanD4rk]

WG is just doing copy-pasta of the gaming industry trends regarding the gambling.

Until an EU legislation will ban lootboxes or idiots will stop buying them, WG will just bring wave after wave of lootboxes.

I hate lootboxes and never bought one, but WG does not force anyone to buy them, and it is not just WG fault for this situation, it's also the playerbase who bought this...

 

[quickr]

13 hours ago, wot_2016_gunner said:

I'm f2p, and in a few days it will be almost a year since I registered, but I still haven't spent a single Euro in anything

 

13 hours ago, Palubarac said:

I joined 2 weeks after you and I'm 100% f2p.

 

 

"I'm a f2p player but let me complain how WG gets its income" 

I would say if you don't like it don't buy it but you haven't bought anything anyway, you haven't supported this game you play so much in anyway. Why do you complain?

[Excavatus]

4 minutes ago, Nibenay78 said:

Also if you get something you don't want, it's effectively lost money even if you did get something of an equal value.

 

1 minute ago, CptBarney said:

For example if theres a loot box for tier 9 prems and you really, really want a musashi and you spend the amount for the crate and you get flags then you have lost your money and gained nothing from it since that wasn't what you wanted in general. You keep doing this over and over and over and over, losing and risk huge amounts of money while getting nothing of value in return nor the thing you wanted in general.

thats a feeling of a loss :)
not an actuall physical loss

 

Thats all what I'm saying.