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Aragathor

German BBs - A tier by tier analysis

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Do.not.compare.premium.ships.with.silver.ships.

 

The average Massa captain has much more points than the average captain any silver ship...

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14 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

The good times are over, say goodbye. Bayern is one of the worst ships at tier

And yet it's the most played. By a substantial margin. We know that Germany is a big market for WG, does this indicate a large number of newer players choosing the German Tier VI over anything else? 

 

15 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

As said above, Queen Elizabeth is horrible.

QE is a great ship, she's just not Warspite. She's a whittler, needs to be played for the team, not as solo AP blap ship. 

 

19 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

After so many buffs, FDG is still a steaming pile of garbage

Still a popular choice, and still better than Iowa. What does WG have against that ship? It's the definitive WW2 Battleship, the last of her kind and yet it's eclipsed by paper designs, ships which were broken up on the slipway for being superfluous and Stuff We Made Up (TM). Roll on the New Jersey.

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33 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

Inspired by my previous work on the Blyskawica (Link), I have decided to take a more objective look at the German BBs and how they perform. As like many, I am biased and have certain preferences when it comes to my boats, so I decided not to look at my own performance and opinion of them, but instead take a look at the 2 month average on the EU server.

 

The source of the information - http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20191005/eu_2month/average_ship.html

 

 

This will be a tier by tier analysis of the stats, with a general comparison and a word of the position the German battleships are in, starting from T5 as that's where the big boys start playing. Big thanks to @WG_Lumberjack for inspiring me to do this. Blame him, not me.

 

Stats in bold are the best in the category, in italics the worst.

 

Tier 5

Stats:

  Reveal hidden contents

image.thumb.png.8e95d97f391dbf623d62192c39c170b0.png

 

Analysis:

König is in a very good spot here. Good WR and damage, pretty average kills of both planes and ships, not a bad survival and K/D, mastery in tanking damage and the accuracy is ok too. I do not see any reason to touch this ship, even if the turret rotation is bad for a ship that should brawl. There is nothing to say more.

 

Other ships here show an interesting picture. Bretagne is really bad. Texas rules the tier. Pyotr is performing a bit too well, but it has the lowest survival, so it dies most of the time. Other than that it is a very close race.

 

Tier 6

Stats:

  Reveal hidden contents

image.thumb.png.6ba852ecc832a7c32c24e034abdb9788.png

 

Analysis:

The good times are over, say goodbye. Bayern is one of the worst ships at tier. The WR is still ok, but the damage is trailing behind the rest. Between the top scorer Arizona and Bayern there's a 16k difference per game. And Arizona is not forced to push in to perform. Without Queen Elizabeth Bayern would be the ship with the least kills per game, at least it's second worst. It can shoot planes down though, but not too many. The survival isn't the worst, in fact it's pretty ok. K/D is again second worst after QE. Bayern has also quite surprisingly a very average tanking and accuracy average. It's middle of the field, but it still can't perform.

 

PEF is a different pair of shoes, not really popular though. It has a decent winrate and damage, third and sixth to be precise. It's currently the best BB AA platform at T6. PEF however doesn't survive too often, after the Dunkerque it is the second most ganked T6 BB, it tries to tank the most damage but still goes poof. It's also the most accurate BB at tier with a good K/D.

 

I'd say Bayern needs a buff, because ManSec gives it nothing of value and the guns just don't compensate. So it has nothing to shine with. Surviving the battle means nothing if you can't give back what you received.

PEF doesn't need buffs, maybe a small QoL improvement of the turret traverse to make it perform better as a flanker, but that's it.

 

Other highlights. As said above, Quen Elizabeth is horrible. It's even worse than Bayern. Arizona on the other hand, shines like a beacon of Sealclubbing. It dump trucks other ships at tier. I'm also very surprised that Izmail is rather average. A balanced Russian BB, now that's something you don't see every day. Also, Dunkek players should stop camping and move, they are getting killed in droves.

 

Tier 7

Stats:

  Reveal hidden contents

image.thumb.png.865ce2c2a4ba47d5021dfb4f427c9fa0.png

 

Analysis:

The monody to the German BBs continues. Gneisenau with it's least amount of guns stands at the end of the line. Damage, survival, K/D, all are bottom of the barrel bad. Surprisingly the hit ratio isn't bad, 4th best in fact, but having only 6 guns means you won't get the numbers to compensate. WR is good and AA is incredible, not even DoY comes close.

 

Scharnhorst keeps the flame alive, the ship has decent stats in every category. Not a surprise there, as the fast firing 280mm guns can compensate for everything else. I don't need to say more, as it is in a very good place stat wise.

 

Sinop murders people, if not for the Nelson and the 406mm fire starters, it would dominate most categories. No wonder Flamu calls the ship Satan. WG should really nerf it, like the Vladivostok. On the other end of the line stands Ashitaka, unloved, unwanted, and under performing. A ship designed to be bad. Who would've thought that making everything bad, save the guns, would make it so. Honorable mention, Hood, the ship everyone is shooting at.

 

 

Tier 8

Stats:

  Reveal hidden contents

image.thumb.png.16fbff0d02e9e9ebfa5153c6946c2bcd.png

 

Analysis:

To my incredible and shocking surprise, both Bismarck and Tirpitz are pretty average ships. They aren't great but they are also not bad (save the AA on Tirpitz, which is bad). They are not the best performing ships, but they aren't horrible. Even the accuracy of the main battery and damage are ok. Color me surprised. There is really no need for changes here.

 

The rest of the ships at tier are a riot. NC players should be given an in-game message to get closer to the fight, because their ships are under perfoming. Kii isn't hitting other ships and can't win. Both Russians are very good, in fact they would be the best if not for a peculiar ship. The Massachoochoo just steamrolls over the corpses. WG you shouldn't have, really. This ship is even more OP when it comes to stats than Vladdy.

 

Tier 9

Stats:

  Reveal hidden contents

image.thumb.png.14c57673873ae3e61d82abda2c1cfdab.png

 

Analysis:

After so many buffs, FDG is still a steaming pile of garbage. I understand that some ships will always be last, but they should at least perform close to their peers. Instead FDG performs like an anemic T8 after a coffee. It doesn't do damage, it doesn't kill ships, it doesn't survive battles. And you can't blame it all on players. Other silver T9s are performing better than the T8s, FDG isn't. It's like watching a post on r/awfuleverything.

 

WG was right to remove the Musashi. That ship was OP, still is. The most popular BB is not a German one, it's the Jean Bart. Soyuz like Izmail looks pretty balanced. And Missouri is a symbol of victory, getting one on the team means your chances to win have gone up.

 

 

Tier 10

Stats:

  Reveal hidden contents

image.thumb.png.f1ae2e13b2e756b17c0251793cdb932b.png

 

Analysis:

Just because GK has better numbers than FDG doesn't mean it's a good ship. One look at the stats dispels any illusions I had. Least damage, least kills, worst survival rate and K/D. It's the same story, just one tier higher with some fresh paint to cover the rust. The WR is ok, but otherwise? Take the Kremlin, you'll have much better results. Or take anything else, save Montana. Lots of players play it, but even Yamato snipers perform better.

 

I'm really surprised how bad Montana is being played. I don't know why. Bourgogne is OP, but it's not a surprise. Otherwise the ships are pretty balanced against each other, at least the silvers. Premiums? Yeah, not so much. WG is power-creeping T10 to make sure in the future no one will take a silver BB to CBs or Ranked.

 

 

Well that's it for me. I'm surprised how good some ships perform. I don't like the PEF, but it performs well. Both T8s are doing good too. König is also solid. But the remainder? You always have better options. Especially T9 and T10 look grim, as both ships are the worst at tier when it comes to performance. FDG just stuns at how bad it is. Sub_Octavian has said they won't do blanket buffs and I agree. But for our sake they should start looking at individual ships, because this is looking like a train wreck. Anyway, drop a comment below to tell me what you think. I might do a similar post next week for a different line.

You missed out tiers 3 and 4, why?

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9 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

And yet it's the most played. By a substantial margin. We know that Germany is a big market for WG, does this indicate a large number of newer players choosing the German Tier VI over anything else? 

Wouldn't they perform badly also in the König? Both ships have a very similar play style, yet the stats on the König are good.

 

9 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

QE is a great ship, she's just not Warspite.

That's clear from the stats, Warspite is better. QE is the only BB at T6 with 72s of turret traverse. It deserves some love.

 

9 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

Still a popular choice, and still better than Iowa.

Only in WinRate and tanking damage. FDG is worse in other stat categories.

 

9 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

What does WG have against that ship?

Well, maybe it's the fact it was one of the first silver ships in the game. After all, it all started with USN and IJN ships. And once upon a time it was named World of Battleships.

 

1 minute ago, NoobySkooby said:

You missed out tiers 3 and 4, why?

I didn't miss them, I just don't see the purpose of looking at stats made by seal clubbers padding their WR and new players who don't know AP exists. T5 is where the hard part of the game starts.

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In my mind a lower survival rate for high tier KM BBs can easily be explained by people suiciding into enemy fire because "MUH SECONDARIES".

 

In general I'm rather skeptical about how representative average stats are. According to these high tier USN BBs have terrible performance, yet knowing how effective these ships are it's hard to argue that they need buffing.

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One thing you've missed. Except T9, german BBs are the most played BB on their tier.

 

Many players increase the chance of total failures, which drag down the stats.

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17 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

In general I'm somewhat unsure how representative average stats are.

 

:Smile_great:  This

 

Sure, some ships are harder to play right, and we know what state average playerbase is at. NC is a very strong ship, and if it wasnt for Vladi/lenin, it would have been most likely no 1 pick in T8 CBs. Very accurate, but shells are slow. Thats why the hitratio is so low: They cant lead properly. If you can do it, it hits like a truck.

 

Also from personal experience: GK doesnt need a buff. But if average player is going for secondary build, they will fail with it. No doubt in my mind. GK would show better results with tankbuild. Its like Tirpitz players rushing in because "MUUH TORPZ" but on TX they fail even harder. HE spam will eat you alive in no time.

Again, GK might need a bit more skill to get the right time for a push. But it can push better than others, because of its tankiness. Bourgogne might be the other option: no armor, but fast and reloadbooster, so you can smack crap before it touches you :cap_haloween:

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44 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

Inspired by my previous work on the Blyskawica (Link), I have decided to take a more objective look at the German BBs and how they perform. As like many, I am biased and have certain preferences when it comes to my boats, so I decided not to look at my own performance and opinion of them, but instead take a look at the 2 month average on the EU server.

 

The source of the information - http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20191005/eu_2month/average_ship.html

 

 

This will be a tier by tier analysis of the stats, with a general comparison and a word of the position the German battleships are in, starting from T5 as that's where the big boys start playing. Big thanks to @WG_Lumberjack for inspiring me to do this. Blame him, not me.

 

Stats in bold are the best in the category, in italics the worst.

 

Tier 5

Stats:

  Hide contents

image.thumb.png.8e95d97f391dbf623d62192c39c170b0.png

 

Analysis:

König is in a very good spot here. Good WR and damage, pretty average kills of both planes and ships, not a bad survival and K/D, mastery in tanking damage and the accuracy is ok too. I do not see any reason to touch this ship, even if the turret rotation is bad for a ship that should brawl. There is nothing to say more.

 

Other ships here show an interesting picture. Bretagne is really bad. Texas rules the tier. Pyotr is performing a bit too well, but it has the lowest survival, so it dies most of the time. Other than that it is a very close race.

 

Tier 6

Stats:

  Hide contents

image.thumb.png.6ba852ecc832a7c32c24e034abdb9788.png

 

Analysis:

The good times are over, say goodbye. Bayern is one of the worst ships at tier. The WR is still ok, but the damage is trailing behind the rest. Between the top scorer Arizona and Bayern there's a 16k difference per game. And Arizona is not forced to push in to perform. Without Queen Elizabeth Bayern would be the ship with the least kills per game, at least it's second worst. It can shoot planes down though, but not too many. The survival isn't the worst, in fact it's pretty ok. K/D is again second worst after QE. Bayern has also quite surprisingly a very average tanking and accuracy average. It's middle of the field, but it still can't perform.

 

PEF is a different pair of shoes, not really popular though. It has a decent winrate and damage, third and sixth to be precise. It's currently the best BB AA platform at T6. PEF however doesn't survive too often, after the Dunkerque it is the second most ganked T6 BB, it tries to tank the most damage but still goes poof. It's also the most accurate BB at tier with a good K/D.

 

I'd say Bayern needs a buff, because ManSec gives it nothing of value and the guns just don't compensate. So it has nothing to shine with. Surviving the battle means nothing if you can't give back what you received.

PEF doesn't need buffs, maybe a small QoL improvement of the turret traverse to make it perform better as a flanker, but that's it.

 

Other highlights. As said above, Quen Elizabeth is horrible. It's even worse than Bayern. Arizona on the other hand, shines like a beacon of Sealclubbing. It dump trucks other ships at tier. I'm also very surprised that Izmail is rather average. A balanced Russian BB, now that's something you don't see every day. Also, Dunkek players should stop camping and move, they are getting killed in droves.

 

Tier 7

Stats:

  Hide contents

image.thumb.png.865ce2c2a4ba47d5021dfb4f427c9fa0.png

 

Analysis:

The monody to the German BBs continues. Gneisenau with it's least amount of guns stands at the end of the line. Damage, survival, K/D, all are bottom of the barrel bad. Surprisingly the hit ratio isn't bad, 4th best in fact, but having only 6 guns means you won't get the numbers to compensate. WR is good and AA is incredible, not even DoY comes close.

 

Scharnhorst keeps the flame alive, the ship has decent stats in every category. Not a surprise there, as the fast firing 280mm guns can compensate for everything else. I don't need to say more, as it is in a very good place stat wise.

 

Sinop murders people, if not for the Nelson and the 406mm fire starters, it would dominate most categories. No wonder Flamu calls the ship Satan. WG should really nerf it, like the Vladivostok. On the other end of the line stands Ashitaka, unloved, unwanted, and under performing. A ship designed to be bad. Who would've thought that making everything bad, save the guns, would make it so. Honorable mention, Hood, the ship everyone is shooting at.

 

 

Tier 8

Stats:

  Hide contents

image.thumb.png.16fbff0d02e9e9ebfa5153c6946c2bcd.png

 

Analysis:

To my incredible and shocking surprise, both Bismarck and Tirpitz are pretty average ships. They aren't great but they are also not bad (save the AA on Tirpitz, which is bad). They are not the best performing ships, but they aren't horrible. Even the accuracy of the main battery and damage are ok. Color me surprised. There is really no need for changes here.

 

The rest of the ships at tier are a riot. NC players should be given an in-game message to get closer to the fight, because their ships are under perfoming. Kii isn't hitting other ships and can't win. Both Russians are very good, in fact they would be the best if not for a peculiar ship. The Massachoochoo just steamrolls over the corpses. WG you shouldn't have, really. This ship is even more OP when it comes to stats than Vladdy.

 

Tier 9

Stats:

  Hide contents

image.thumb.png.14c57673873ae3e61d82abda2c1cfdab.png

 

Analysis:

After so many buffs, FDG is still a steaming pile of garbage. I understand that some ships will always be last, but they should at least perform close to their peers. Instead FDG performs like an anemic T8 after a coffee. It doesn't do damage, it doesn't kill ships, it doesn't survive battles. And you can't blame it all on players. Other silver T9s are performing better than the T8s, FDG isn't. It's like watching a post on r/awfuleverything.

 

WG was right to remove the Musashi. That ship was OP, still is. The most popular BB is not a German one, it's the Jean Bart. Soyuz like Izmail looks pretty balanced. And Missouri is a symbol of victory, getting one on the team means your chances to win have gone up.

 

 

Tier 10

Stats:

  Reveal hidden contents

image.thumb.png.f1ae2e13b2e756b17c0251793cdb932b.png

 

Analysis:

Just because GK has better numbers than FDG doesn't mean it's a good ship. One look at the stats dispels any illusions I had. Least damage, least kills, worst survival rate and K/D. It's the same story, just one tier higher with some fresh paint to cover the rust. The WR is ok, but otherwise? Take the Kremlin, you'll have much better results. Or take anything else, save Montana. Lots of players play it, but even Yamato snipers perform better.

 

I'm really surprised how bad Montana is being played. I don't know why. Bourgogne is OP, but it's not a surprise. Otherwise the ships are pretty balanced against each other, at least the silvers. Premiums? Yeah, not so much. WG is power-creeping T10 to make sure in the future no one will take a silver BB to CBs or Ranked.

 

 

Well that's it for me. I'm surprised how good some ships perform. I don't like the PEF, but it performs well. Both T8s are doing good too. König is also solid. But the remainder? You always have better options. Especially T9 and T10 look grim, as both ships are the worst at tier when it comes to performance. FDG just stuns at how bad it is. Sub_Octavian has said they won't do blanket buffs and I agree. But for our sake they should start looking at individual ships, because this is looking like a train wreck. Anyway, drop a comment below to tell me what you think. I might do a similar post next week for a different line.

About t9 and t10, who cares?

T8 it's the prize, the end of the line, the top of the hill (for me) but I haven't played much and I haven't a formed opinion yet.

My BB experience spans over two years or three years so but is little, but from what I remember t5 and under are dreadful soul sucking ships.

I didn't like Koenig.

Bayern? It started being a meh ship, I have it for a while now, co-op, then Ops, Sprint and finally random. I see what you are saying and it's a bit true, but there's no other t6 BB I trust more than Bayern.

Bayern it's my non cruiser ship that's it's closer to my citadel record (set by a cruiser).

Gneisenau was love at first sight, who needs Scharnhorst when you have a Gneisenau , co-op, Ops and now sprint.

the only ship to date that got me through the horrors of UF

Seeing those numbers, and understanding them, don't corroborate my experience while playing them, yes they lack a few thing here and there but they make up for that, and when they do...

I love them, they are the exception of the rule. They still have very few true rivals, and that makes me sad.  

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1 hour ago, Aragathor said:

Inspired by my previous work on the Blyskawica (Link), I have decided to take a more objective look at the German BBs and how they perform. As like many, I am biased and have certain preferences when it comes to my boats, so I decided not to look at my own performance and opinion of them, but instead take a look at the 2 month average on the EU server.

 

The source of the information - http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20191005/eu_2month/average_ship.html

 

 

This will be a tier by tier analysis of the stats, with a general comparison and a word of the position the German battleships are in, starting from T5 as that's where the big boys start playing. Big thanks to @WG_Lumberjack for inspiring me to do this. Blame him, not me.

 

Stats in bold are the best in the category, in italics the worst.

 

Tier 5

Stats:

  Reveal hidden contents

image.thumb.png.8e95d97f391dbf623d62192c39c170b0.png

 

Analysis:

König is in a very good spot here. Good WR and damage, pretty average kills of both planes and ships, not a bad survival and K/D, mastery in tanking damage and the accuracy is ok too. I do not see any reason to touch this ship, even if the turret rotation is bad for a ship that should brawl. There is nothing to say more.

 

Other ships here show an interesting picture. Bretagne is really bad. Texas rules the tier. Pyotr is performing a bit too well, but it has the lowest survival, so it dies most of the time. Other than that it is a very close race.

 

Tier 6

Stats:

  Reveal hidden contents

image.thumb.png.6ba852ecc832a7c32c24e034abdb9788.png

 

Analysis:

The good times are over, say goodbye. Bayern is one of the worst ships at tier. The WR is still ok, but the damage is trailing behind the rest. Between the top scorer Arizona and Bayern there's a 16k difference per game. And Arizona is not forced to push in to perform. Without Queen Elizabeth Bayern would be the ship with the least kills per game, at least it's second worst. It can shoot planes down though, but not too many. The survival isn't the worst, in fact it's pretty ok. K/D is again second worst after QE. Bayern has also quite surprisingly a very average tanking and accuracy average. It's middle of the field, but it still can't perform.

 

PEF is a different pair of shoes, not really popular though. It has a decent winrate and damage, third and sixth to be precise. It's currently the best BB AA platform at T6. PEF however doesn't survive too often, after the Dunkerque it is the second most ganked T6 BB, it tries to tank the most damage but still goes poof. It's also the most accurate BB at tier with a good K/D.

 

I'd say Bayern needs a buff, because ManSec gives it nothing of value and the guns just don't compensate. So it has nothing to shine with. Surviving the battle means nothing if you can't give back what you received.

PEF doesn't need buffs, maybe a small QoL improvement of the turret traverse to make it perform better as a flanker, but that's it.

 

Other highlights. As said above, Quen Elizabeth is horrible. It's even worse than Bayern. Arizona on the other hand, shines like a beacon of Sealclubbing. It dump trucks other ships at tier. I'm also very surprised that Izmail is rather average. A balanced Russian BB, now that's something you don't see every day. Also, Dunkek players should stop camping and move, they are getting killed in droves.

 

Tier 7

Stats:

  Reveal hidden contents

image.thumb.png.865ce2c2a4ba47d5021dfb4f427c9fa0.png

 

Analysis:

The monody to the German BBs continues. Gneisenau with it's least amount of guns stands at the end of the line. Damage, survival, K/D, all are bottom of the barrel bad. Surprisingly the hit ratio isn't bad, 4th best in fact, but having only 6 guns means you won't get the numbers to compensate. WR is good and AA is incredible, not even DoY comes close.

 

Scharnhorst keeps the flame alive, the ship has decent stats in every category. Not a surprise there, as the fast firing 280mm guns can compensate for everything else. I don't need to say more, as it is in a very good place stat wise.

 

Sinop murders people, if not for the Nelson and the 406mm fire starters, it would dominate most categories. No wonder Flamu calls the ship Satan. WG should really nerf it, like the Vladivostok. On the other end of the line stands Ashitaka, unloved, unwanted, and under performing. A ship designed to be bad. Who would've thought that making everything bad, save the guns, would make it so. Honorable mention, Hood, the ship everyone is shooting at.

 

 

Tier 8

Stats:

  Reveal hidden contents

image.thumb.png.16fbff0d02e9e9ebfa5153c6946c2bcd.png

 

Analysis:

To my incredible and shocking surprise, both Bismarck and Tirpitz are pretty average ships. They aren't great but they are also not bad (save the AA on Tirpitz, which is bad). They are not the best performing ships, but they aren't horrible. Even the accuracy of the main battery and damage are ok. Color me surprised. There is really no need for changes here.

 

The rest of the ships at tier are a riot. NC players should be given an in-game message to get closer to the fight, because their ships are under perfoming. Kii isn't hitting other ships and can't win. Both Russians are very good, in fact they would be the best if not for a peculiar ship. The Massachoochoo just steamrolls over the corpses. WG you shouldn't have, really. This ship is even more OP when it comes to stats than Vladdy.

 

Tier 9

Stats:

  Reveal hidden contents

image.thumb.png.14c57673873ae3e61d82abda2c1cfdab.png

 

Analysis:

After so many buffs, FDG is still a steaming pile of garbage. I understand that some ships will always be last, but they should at least perform close to their peers. Instead FDG performs like an anemic T8 after a coffee. It doesn't do damage, it doesn't kill ships, it doesn't survive battles. And you can't blame it all on players. Other silver T9s are performing better than the T8s, FDG isn't. It's like watching a post on r/awfuleverything.

 

WG was right to remove the Musashi. That ship was OP, still is. The most popular BB is not a German one, it's the Jean Bart. Soyuz like Izmail looks pretty balanced. And Missouri is a symbol of victory, getting one on the team means your chances to win have gone up.

 

 

Tier 10

Stats:

  Reveal hidden contents

image.thumb.png.f1ae2e13b2e756b17c0251793cdb932b.png

 

Analysis:

Just because GK has better numbers than FDG doesn't mean it's a good ship. One look at the stats dispels any illusions I had. Least damage, least kills, worst survival rate and K/D. It's the same story, just one tier higher with some fresh paint to cover the rust. The WR is ok, but otherwise? Take the Kremlin, you'll have much better results. Or take anything else, save Montana. Lots of players play it, but even Yamato snipers perform better.

 

I'm really surprised how bad Montana is being played. I don't know why. Bourgogne is OP, but it's not a surprise. Otherwise the ships are pretty balanced against each other, at least the silvers. Premiums? Yeah, not so much. WG is power-creeping T10 to make sure in the future no one will take a silver BB to CBs or Ranked.

 

 

Well that's it for me. I'm surprised how good some ships perform. I don't like the PEF, but it performs well. Both T8s are doing good too. König is also solid. But the remainder? You always have better options. Especially T9 and T10 look grim, as both ships are the worst at tier when it comes to performance. FDG just stuns at how bad it is. Sub_Octavian has said they won't do blanket buffs and I agree. But for our sake they should start looking at individual ships, because this is looking like a train wreck. Anyway, drop a comment below to tell me what you think. I might do a similar post next week for a different line.

Bayern good and nice intro to Gneisenau, which is better than shiny (harder hitting and far better AA,) Bis and Tirp heavily handicapped by WG, FDG no better or progress over Bis, Furst is.

 

If the above were Russian they’d be sat on top of all charts, WG’s Russian bias and anti German stance leave the ships that actually stood out average, when Bismarck should be the pinnacle and the one to be feared instead of all the op paper Russian ships from a navy that did sweet FA, from a historical standpoint only the Brits and Germans stand out and both are handicapped; dire dispersion and dire AP

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1 hour ago, Aragathor said:

Wouldn't they perform badly also in the König? Both ships have a very similar play style, yet the stats on the König are good.

 

That's clear from the stats, Warspite is better. QE is the only BB at T6 with 72s of turret traverse. It deserves some love.

 

Only in WinRate and tanking damage. FDG is worse in other stat categories.

 

Well, maybe it's the fact it was one of the first silver ships in the game. After all, it all started with USN and IJN ships. And once upon a time it was named World of Battleships.

 

I didn't miss them, I just don't see the purpose of looking at stats made by seal clubbers padding their WR and new players who don't know AP exists. T5 is where the hard part of the game starts.

Lol I am no seal clubber, I am the seal:Smile_veryhappy:

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Interesting stuff but the t7 numbers are likely skewed by ranked sprint. My EU acct is f2p so my only option was the Gneisenau and I accounted for 30 of those games in sprint, with several more grinding towards my Bismarck to use in the current sprint season.

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@Aragathor

 

Nice write up dude.

 

For me the tables would be easier to read if sorted by WR though. 

 

I am not hugely surprised about your findings, on most tiers German BBs feel rather average. Not stellar but not bad either. Not sure if the fact they are the most played is detrimental for their stats or not.

 

One thing made me angry though: 

 

- Ashitaka unwanted????!!! I like the ship, I wanted her and I find her fun and amazing! :Smile-angry:

 

If WG would buff a ship in the line it would be Bayern for me. She feels just a bit meh. Preferably reload to a more realistic value. Doesn’t need to be historical 23sec but 24-26 sound about right

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Bayern has the second highest WR of all Tier VI silver BB...

48 minutes ago, TheTrickpony said:

Interesting stuff but the t7 numbers are likely skewed by ranked sprint. My EU acct is f2p so my only option was the Gneisenau and I accounted for 30 of those games in sprint, with several more grinding towards my Bismarck to use in the current sprint season.

The stats above include only Random Battles.

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What I want to have with the German Battleships is a bit more reliability with their guns; not laser accuracy, but the point is that even when you close the distances and you have a targer broadside you still miss (I'm mounting Aiming System mod. 1 as i'm not fan of secondary builds; it doesn't help that much, accuracy is still horrible, but at least i can get some hits). I had this game in the Gneisenau where there was a DD about 6.5 or 7 km away from me, full broadside, the aim was good, but none of the shells hit, none, at that range.

I e-mailed Notser about a week ago about an idea that i have for making the German battleships better in the current meta, as he's the one i trust the most when he thinks that a certain ship might lack something or that it needs to get nerfed, i'm still waiting for his answer, here is an extract of what i wrote him:

----

So, almost every time in the steams, there is a question that always comes up, and it's about the German Battleship accuracy. Now i don't think that the German BBs are bad, they are acutally my second favourites after the IJN ones, but I think that they have been kind of left behind. As a discussion in the EU forum evidenced, in the current meta, it became a lot more rare to close the distanced enought for a Secondary build to be effective, mostly due to the higher engagement ranges.

Plus, with the introduction of Russian Battleshps, they lost their reason to exist, because the Russian BBs (especially the Sinop, which is kind of a joke in my opinion) are takier (even if they have a easy to get cittadel) but most importanly, they really benefit from getting closer, because their dispersion get's way better, while the German BBs still keep their accuracy, but the problem is that even when you get close, you still  miss a lot, even with Accuracy System Mod. 1, which i use as I'm not a fan of Secondary builds.

Sure, it gets better with GK because of the 12 guns. And the armor also doesn't matter any more, because everybody just spams HE at them.

 

What i think that the community wants, is not Russian level of accuracy, but I thnk that it just wants more reliability; so I played around with numbers a bit, trying to find a way to make them better, but still balanced, and i think i found a way, let me know if you find it interesting and/or it could be implemented.

 

It is divided into two changes, while the rest will remain untouched: 

 

1 - Changing the dispersion formula from the one that we have now (Range x 9.8 + 66) to the one that i made up, which is Range x 8.6 + 75. Now, this formula, as you might have noticed, is right in between the IJN BBs dispesion and the other types of dispersion, however, i run the numbers and it's actually not that much of an improovement, consisting of about a 7% reduction in the dispesion (like if you had the Accuracy upgrade installed), so, if you now would mount Aiming System Mod. 1, the guns will be more accurate. 

 

As you said with Georgia, they made a six-gun battleship work, why?  Because, while Georgia's sigma is the same as German BBs (1.8), her dispersion is way tighter. Change number 2 will be the balancing factor.

 

2 - The second change will sort of affect secondary build, and it costists of adding a dispersion nerf from German Battleships only when mounting the secondary battery mod 2, the change will be a 5% increace in the dispersion value, which will bring de dispersion value back to the stock value that we have today (maybe a couple of meters short).

 

The rest will remain unchanged, range, sigma...

----

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1 hour ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

@Aragathor

 

Nice write up dude.

 

For me the tables would be easier to read if sorted by WR though. 

 

I am not hugely surprised about your findings, on most tiers German BBs feel rather average. Not stellar but not bad either. Not sure if the fact they are the most played is detrimental for their stats or not.

 

One thing made me angry though: 

 

- Ashitaka unwanted????!!! I like the ship, I wanted her and I find her fun and amazing! :Smile-angry:

 

If WG would buff a ship in the line it would be Bayern for me. She feels just a bit meh. Preferably reload to a more realistic value. Doesn’t need to be historical 23sec but 24-26 sound about right

Ashitaka was recently buffed and given Amagi shells. It’s a strong ship now if fragile.

perhaps he hasn’t tried the new version.

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1 minuto fa, gopher31 ha scritto:

Ashitaka was recently buffed and given Amagi shells. It’s a strong ship now if fragile.

perhaps he hasn’t tried the new version.

I tried her out as a rental some time ago and she's really good, even played againts her and it was fine.

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1 hour ago, wot_2016_gunner said:

What I want to have with the German Battleships is a bit more reliability with their guns

 

Which runs contrary to their inherent concept to make potatoes perform better.

You see, if you have bad aim terrible dispersion actually helps you land the occasional hit. This kind of design philosophy is ingrained in pretty much every aspect of KM BBs. They have a near immunity to citadels so broadsiding isn't punished as much, they possess among the best armor against HE spam, pre CV rework their AA was among the best to decent enough depending on tier (post rework everyone has terrible AA), their general gunnery characteristics (shell speed, arc, turret traverse) are very comfortable, secondaries are an automated source of damage requiring no skill input and on high tiers they get hydro to provide close range recon along with protection against torps.

 

So basically both their skill floor and ceiling are by design very low. Which personally I believe is terrible but it is what it is. That at one point made them so popular that WG specifically introduced AP bombs, another terrible idea, to reign in their numbers.

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11 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

In general I'm rather skeptical about how representative average stats are.

In a perfect world we would have access to stats based on individual performance and would be able to remove outliers. We don't live in a perfect world.

 

59 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

Ashitaka was recently buffed and given Amagi shells. It’s a strong ship now if fragile.

perhaps he hasn’t tried the new version.

Have you even bothered to read my post? These are the total EU stats for the last 2 months gathered from all of the players. They only have the current version of the ship. That change happened last year in July.

 

 

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55 minutes ago, gopher31 said:

Ashitaka was recently buffed and given Amagi shells. It’s a strong ship now if fragile.

perhaps he hasn’t tried the new version.

 

Exactly. She’s certainly fine power-wise. But what I love so much about her is that she really is what the Amagis would have been. Insanely powerful punch (for the time) on a ridiculously large and almost unprotected hull. Most likely these monsters would have exploded in their first engagement but the class is fascinating!

 

The T8 Tree Amagi has been tweaked to fit into the game as the rest of the ships and denies her historical design. That’s why I dislike her but love Ashitaka 

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PEF accurate? Bourgogne OP? Would take any premium bb in ranked or clan battles? No that would be kremlin, montana, vladivostok,NC,amagi. Only tier 9 is full of premiums like jean bart, musashi, alaska etc. And how the hell are we comparing ships that have 130 battles with ones that have above 20.000? 

Stop loking at those spreadsheets just compare the ship stats side by side and see how they perform in battle! Of course GK, FDG die every game because 18 commander points goes into secondarys. Want to buff them? Give them AFT already build in or give them soviet style DCP or maybe a 60 sec heal cooldown!

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I’ve found KM BB’s nothing but effective reliable work horses. Able to take heat and then dish it out when able to take advantage of an opening. 

 

The player base as always is what truly lets them down.

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12 hours ago, Aragathor said:

Inspired by my previous work on the Blyskawica (Link), I have decided to take a more objective look at the German BBs and how they perform. As like many, I am biased and have certain preferences when it comes to my boats, so I decided not to look at my own performance and opinion of them, but instead take a look at the 2 month average on the EU server.

 

The source of the information - http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20191005/eu_2month/average_ship.html

 

 

This will be a tier by tier analysis of the stats, with a general comparison and a word of the position the German battleships are in, starting from T5 as that's where the big boys start playing. Big thanks to @WG_Lumberjack for inspiring me to do this. Blame him, not me.

 

Stats in bold are the best in the category, in italics the worst.

 

Tier 5

Stats:

  Reveal hidden contents

image.thumb.png.8e95d97f391dbf623d62192c39c170b0.png

 

Analysis:

König is in a very good spot here. Good WR and damage, pretty average kills of both planes and ships, not a bad survival and K/D, mastery in tanking damage and the accuracy is ok too. I do not see any reason to touch this ship, even if the turret rotation is bad for a ship that should brawl. There is nothing to say more.

 

Other ships here show an interesting picture. Bretagne is really bad. Texas rules the tier. Pyotr is performing a bit too well, but it has the lowest survival, so it dies most of the time. Other than that it is a very close race.

 

Tier 6

Stats:

  Reveal hidden contents

image.thumb.png.6ba852ecc832a7c32c24e034abdb9788.png

 

Analysis:

The good times are over, say goodbye. Bayern is one of the worst ships at tier. The WR is still ok, but the damage is trailing behind the rest. Between the top scorer Arizona and Bayern there's a 16k difference per game. And Arizona is not forced to push in to perform. Without Queen Elizabeth Bayern would be the ship with the least kills per game, at least it's second worst. It can shoot planes down though, but not too many. The survival isn't the worst, in fact it's pretty ok. K/D is again second worst after QE. Bayern has also quite surprisingly a very average tanking and accuracy average. It's middle of the field, but it still can't perform.

 

PEF is a different pair of shoes, not really popular though. It has a decent winrate and damage, third and sixth to be precise. It's currently the best BB AA platform at T6. PEF however doesn't survive too often, after the Dunkerque it is the second most ganked T6 BB, it tries to tank the most damage but still goes poof. It's also the most accurate BB at tier with a good K/D.

 

I'd say Bayern needs a buff, because ManSec gives it nothing of value and the guns just don't compensate. So it has nothing to shine with. Surviving the battle means nothing if you can't give back what you received.

PEF doesn't need buffs, maybe a small QoL improvement of the turret traverse to make it perform better as a flanker, but that's it.

 

Other highlights. As said above, Quen Elizabeth is horrible. It's even worse than Bayern. Arizona on the other hand, shines like a beacon of Sealclubbing. It dump trucks other ships at tier. I'm also very surprised that Izmail is rather average. A balanced Russian BB, now that's something you don't see every day. Also, Dunkek players should stop camping and move, they are getting killed in droves.

 

Tier 7

Stats:

  Reveal hidden contents

image.thumb.png.865ce2c2a4ba47d5021dfb4f427c9fa0.png

 

Analysis:

The monody to the German BBs continues. Gneisenau with it's least amount of guns stands at the end of the line. Damage, survival, K/D, all are bottom of the barrel bad. Surprisingly the hit ratio isn't bad, 4th best in fact, but having only 6 guns means you won't get the numbers to compensate. WR is good and AA is incredible, not even DoY comes close.

 

Scharnhorst keeps the flame alive, the ship has decent stats in every category. Not a surprise there, as the fast firing 280mm guns can compensate for everything else. I don't need to say more, as it is in a very good place stat wise.

 

Sinop murders people, if not for the Nelson and the 406mm fire starters, it would dominate most categories. No wonder Flamu calls the ship Satan. WG should really nerf it, like the Vladivostok. On the other end of the line stands Ashitaka, unloved, unwanted, and under performing. A ship designed to be bad. Who would've thought that making everything bad, save the guns, would make it so. Honorable mention, Hood, the ship everyone is shooting at.

 

 

Tier 8

Stats:

  Reveal hidden contents

image.thumb.png.16fbff0d02e9e9ebfa5153c6946c2bcd.png

 

Analysis:

To my incredible and shocking surprise, both Bismarck and Tirpitz are pretty average ships. They aren't great but they are also not bad (save the AA on Tirpitz, which is bad). They are not the best performing ships, but they aren't horrible. Even the accuracy of the main battery and damage are ok. Color me surprised. There is really no need for changes here.

 

The rest of the ships at tier are a riot. NC players should be given an in-game message to get closer to the fight, because their ships are under perfoming. Kii isn't hitting other ships and can't win. Both Russians are very good, in fact they would be the best if not for a peculiar ship. The Massachoochoo just steamrolls over the corpses. WG you shouldn't have, really. This ship is even more OP when it comes to stats than Vladdy.

 

Tier 9

Stats:

  Reveal hidden contents

image.thumb.png.14c57673873ae3e61d82abda2c1cfdab.png

 

Analysis:

After so many buffs, FDG is still a steaming pile of garbage. I understand that some ships will always be last, but they should at least perform close to their peers. Instead FDG performs like an anemic T8 after a coffee. It doesn't do damage, it doesn't kill ships, it doesn't survive battles. And you can't blame it all on players. Other silver T9s are performing better than the T8s, FDG isn't. It's like watching a post on r/awfuleverything.

 

WG was right to remove the Musashi. That ship was OP, still is. The most popular BB is not a German one, it's the Jean Bart. Soyuz like Izmail looks pretty balanced. And Missouri is a symbol of victory, getting one on the team means your chances to win have gone up.

 

 

Tier 10

Stats:

  Reveal hidden contents

image.thumb.png.f1ae2e13b2e756b17c0251793cdb932b.png

 

Analysis:

Just because GK has better numbers than FDG doesn't mean it's a good ship. One look at the stats dispels any illusions I had. Least damage, least kills, worst survival rate and K/D. It's the same story, just one tier higher with some fresh paint to cover the rust. The WR is ok, but otherwise? Take the Kremlin, you'll have much better results. Or take anything else, save Montana. Lots of players play it, but even Yamato snipers perform better.

 

I'm really surprised how bad Montana is being played. I don't know why. Bourgogne is OP, but it's not a surprise. Otherwise the ships are pretty balanced against each other, at least the silvers. Premiums? Yeah, not so much. WG is power-creeping T10 to make sure in the future no one will take a silver BB to CBs or Ranked.

 

 

Well that's it for me. I'm surprised how good some ships perform. I don't like the PEF, but it performs well. Both T8s are doing good too. König is also solid. But the remainder? You always have better options. Especially T9 and T10 look grim, as both ships are the worst at tier when it comes to performance. FDG just stuns at how bad it is. Sub_Octavian has said they won't do blanket buffs and I agree. But for our sake they should start looking at individual ships, because this is looking like a train wreck. Anyway, drop a comment below to tell me what you think. I might do a similar post next week for a different line.

Thank you for this. I've been thinking about the German BB line for a while now.

 

I'm on Bismarck, in fact she was my first T8, but I was so disappointed when I actually got to her, I put her down for a long time. I've had a few tentative games in her over recent months, as my game knowledge has improved and I do feel more comfortable in her now. However I have been wondering if it's actually worth me investing in the grind for the GK. Only because I like the idea of a full 2ndry spec beast to try and have some fun with. The problem is with their infamous dispersion and the apparent power creep the line feels like it has suffered in recent times, I'm wondering if just buying a T8 or T9 USN premium BB is the better option  Not least because of the imp[roved earnings but also given the horror stories I hear about FDG.

 

But here now is my dilemma. With the Massy and Georgia, being readily available, would it simply be better for me to invest cash in one of them. At the moment I simply don't know.

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