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Colonel_Vessery

Submarines Beta Test: results of the first session

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The Second stage of Beta Test starts today and we would like to share a list of changes, most of which are based on your feedback.
 

We remind you that during Beta Test, we are working –with your help– to review and evaluate the current concept of the gameplay on and against submarines. Most of what you will see is now in development. The current state of the gameplay, balance characteristics, texts, and much more may differ from what will be in the final version.

 

As part of the beta test, we will work with you to improve the gameplay of submarines, make improvements or changes, and prepare for the next stages of testing.

 

After the Beta test, which will take place over several iterations, submarines will be added to the game client as part of a separate game mode (as it was, for example, with Arms Race, Rogue Wave or Space Battles). This will allow us to test under main server conditions, with a larger number of participants as we make the finishing touches and adjust the balancing of the new class.

 

Only after all these steps have been taken will we decide on the fate of submarines.

 

Don’t worry If you don’t find yourself among the Beta Test participants. As the test goes on, we’ll be sending out more and more invitations so that every player who wishes to can eventually join the Beta Test!

 

The main changes for Round 2 of the Beta Test:

  • Reworked interaction between destroyers and submarines;
  • Manual depth charges;
  • Maximum Depth: a new consumable for submarines;
  • Rebalanced submarine torpedoes!

 

Looking back at the results of Round 1, we’ve made significant changes to the interactions between destroyers and submarines. Previously, players helming destroyers were able to get by with the performance of just a minimal set of actions. It often transpired that destroyers’ Commanders didn’t have much involvement in the submarine hunting process, and sometimes weren’t even able to determine which actions exactly they had received ribbons for.

 

Now, ships carrying depth charges will be equipped with an active Hydrophone that can track a submarine’s movement within a particular radius around the ship. The Hydrophone displays three ranges: long, medium, and short. At each range, the submarine’s bearing is updated at varying intervals of time: The closer the ship is to the submarine, the more frequently the incoming information will be updated. With each update, the submarine’s approximate location will be indicated with a special marker.

248a8ece-e5c3-11e9-be3a-8cdcd4b147d4_1200x.jpg

Depth charges will now be released by pressing the “G” key. A destroyer will carry several charges that can be released consecutively. Depth charges will have a certain reload time.

e96158ae-e5c3-11e9-9e32-8cdcd4b147d4_1200x.jpg

Many players enjoyed the option to change the diving depth in Operation “Terror of the Deep”. We’ve reviewed your comments carefully and decided to add greater diversity to the tactics available to submarines to counter destroyers by equipping subs with consumables that can increase their diving depth. By default, submarines will be able to choose between three depths: periscope depth, surface level, and underwater level. However, when at the underwater level, you can use the Maximum Depth consumable to temporarily dive even deeper than usual. At greater depths, submarines will take less damage from depth charges.

WG_SPB_WoWs_screenshots_depth_limit_EN_1920x1080.jpg

A submerged submarine now cruises at a speed that’s approximately 20% slower than her speed on the surface. With the improvements made to the mechanics of depth charges and the addition of the Maximum Depth consumable, we believe this change will balance the underwater gameplay.

 

Another major difference from Operation “Terror of the Deep” is the option to go to periscope depth by pressing the “G” key. The capabilities of a submarine at periscope depth are substantially different from her capabilities underwater or on the water’s surface. At periscope depth, a sub can launch torpedoes and emit sonar pings, but it comes at the cost of a substantial drop in speed. By assigning a separate key for going to periscope depth, we aim to avoid situations where a player accidentally “shifts” from one depth to another, losing the possibility to launch torpedoes and emit sonar pings as a result. Apart from that, when at periscope depth, a submarine will no longer be able to detect a submerged hostile submarine. This way we emphasize the main objective of a sub at this depth: hunting for surface ships without getting distracted by submarines detected underwater.

 

During Round 2 of the test, the Radio Location skill is disabled. During the first round, it worked without restrictions for all types of ships, often providing excessive information about the location of hostile ships. I.e. informing destroyers about the position of hostile submarines, and vice versa. We’re going to change the mechanics of the skill with the different diving depths in mind and bring it back into the game in the following rounds of the test.

 

A lot of players pointed out that the system of switching between torpedo tubes was not very convenient. After careful examination of your comments, we’ve reworked the way torpedo tubes are activated to bring the process in line with that of other ships: groups of torpedo tubes are selected depending on the chosen launching angle. Along with interface-related changes, in Round 2 we’re going to add an option to use the stern torpedo tubes. You’ll also be able to switch to sonar pings simply by pressing the “2” key. This way players will be able to determine for themselves whether they need to emit a sonar ping, or whether they can do without it and simply launch a torpedo salvo at a target.

 

The notification displayed when a sonar ping is emitted by a sub will now be more noticeable: the Minimap indication of the spot where the sub was last detected will be brighter.

Battleships are the primary target for submarines. However, during Round 1 subs turned out to be too efficient in countering them. They could deal huge amounts of damage with a single salvo of torpedoes after two successful sonar pings on the target. To balance this, we’ve changed the mechanics of damage dealing for acoustic torpedoes: we’ve increased their regular damage but decreased the damage to a target hit by two sonar pings. With this change, acoustic torpedoes will no longer be overpowered against battleships, leaving the latter with a chance to reduce the damage they might sustain by maneuvering effectively.

 

At the same time, despite being highly effective against battleships during Round 1 of the test, submarines didn’t have much of a chance against cruisers and destroyers. To tweak the balance in this area, we’ve made the following changes: a second successful hit with a sonar ping increases the accuracy of torpedo guidance, giving players a better chance to hit cruisers and destroyers. However, these ships will still have a good chance to dodge any incoming torpedoes: we’ve increased the distance at which the guidance ceases to work and where an acoustic torpedo will continue onwards like a regular one. A ship has the best chance to avoid getting hit by maneuvering when the torpedo is no longer guided. During Round 2 of the Beta Test, this distance is set at 600 meters for destroyers, 900 meters for cruisers, 1,200 meters for battleships, and 300 meters for submarines.

 

Acoustic torpedoes now interact better with submarines and will track a hostile sub even when she dives deep, but their maneuverability is still limited. A submarine that makes a sudden change of course at the appropriate time can avoid being hit by a torpedo.

a5e15f5c-e5c3-11e9-87fd-8cdcd4b147d4_1200x.jpg

At periscope depth, a submarine is easy to detect using a variety of means, but she’s still hard to hit. In forthcoming rounds of testing, we are keen on improving the interaction between artillery-focused ships and submarines at periscope depth to achieve the optimum balance when firing at a submarine operating.

 

Of course, we’ve complemented this with changes to balance, audio, visuals, and other components. Regarding balance characteristics, we’ve changed the damage and effective radius of depth charges, the surfacing and diving speed of submarines, and a few other parameters.

 

Also, we’re glad to announce that the rewards for the participants of the first session of the Beta Test are already invoiced (except for the flag and patch, they will arrive later). We would like to note that all missions, except for the tasks on flag and patch, start every session anew.

Also, if you want to take part in Beta Test, check the Subscription Management section of the Account Management page on the portal — you should have a checkmark next to World of Warships for the invitation to reach you.

Please note that the mechanics described here and other elements that are available to Beta Testers may differ from the final version.

 

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  • Funny 1

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[DREAD]
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Haven’t been part of the testing but all these changes sound very good and much better than round 1!

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[ADRIA]
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These changes look nice, I am hoping to get an invitation to this round of testing!

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7 hours ago, Colonel_Vessery said:

Manual depth charges;

Is this a dream? Thanks!

 

 

But what I also would manage, want I'm missing

 

There is a huge thrill for the Sub player, when he has to hide. In Steel ocean, when a submarine stopped moving (0 knots), then he became invisible. It was so thrilling to not know, what is happening above, not able to move and just hope to not get DC'ed

 

1.

My suggestion would be:

Subs are invisible for all, when they stop at the depth to 0 knots.

The sub can't see anything or team spot.

The DD has to blind drop, but is also invisible against the sub, since the sub can't spot there.

 

That is a huge thrill and gamble.

 

2.

Manual guns and AA

Even if the guns are weak. it is amazing, when the sub uses the gun to finish a 300hp ship. It doesn't has too much op impact, but it will be hilarous to do that!

Could be a special trait for the IJN having pretty good deck guns, the I 400 had 140 mm deck gun

Give them a good sigma for good aiming and fast reload. So it might be able to sink a 1k hp Ship

Could also be good in a Sub vs Sub fight, when both surface

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[TH2OW]
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It would be nice if we could have a confirmation of when the Beta invites have been sent out so at least I then know when to stop staring at my inbox ;)

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[GLOBS]
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Had a little test today and The CV the auto pilot line is not visible when in Map view , but the markers are.  

image.png.ed1c1cb98be355ce5863454f78867e27.png

but they are on the mini map

image.png.eeec4d72d98cfc0d8054561b124cec9f.png

the auto pilot still works . it is just annoying that you can't see the path your CV is going to take till you are out of Map view . 

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I am looking forward to more testing today . It's a shame that we can't have the TST server for a little longer in the evening . maybe an extra Hour would be Awesome . Especially at the weekend :Smile_medal:  

as I ( like many others ) Stream in the evenings , in my case 8pm till late ( BST ) it means I only get an Hour on Stream to showcase and evaluate the test with The Chat . I know it is not easy to make everyone happy so I do understand .   

but I must admit so far . . it is Awesome . the concept is brill  and I know many more tweaks are needed , but I believe we are on the right path . 

I know subs don'y really need Camo  . but  It would be nice to be able to put camos on them even if they don't get bonuses just to look good .   yeah I would love a Yellow Submarine :Smile_hiding: but I think that' s a long way off yet . 

Tally Ho and back to testing  :Smile_honoring: 

 

 

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14 hours ago, Crichten said:

It would be nice if we could have a confirmation of when the Beta invites have been sent out so at least I then know when to stop staring at my inbox ;)

 

Agreed it would also be nice to know what numbers of invites are being send out.

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Introduction


I played a lot Steel Ocean, a similar game with submarines and some mechanics there were a lot fun, which I'm missing in World of Warships. I want to give some suggestions based on my experience with the sub gameplay of Steel Ocean.

 

image005.jpg

 

Table of content


 

  1. Silent running + Team spotting
  2. Deckgun
  3. Damage, when out of Oxygen
  4. Fog mortar for BB and CV
  5. AA
  6. Aquisition range
  7. Icon for submarines
  8. DC for cruiser



1. Silent running + Team spotting


Spoiler

 

He huge thrill for submarine players in games is, that the submarine is hiding, especially when the submarines stops engines to get dark completly. Curretly this aspect of gamedesign is WoWS compeltly missing and in my opinion it is a huge mistake! So far a submarine can only try to run away from the submarine, but this is imo a bad game design, because the DD will continue to follow the submarine, until the submarine is dead, or teammates killed the DD. Adding the mechanic, that the sub becomes completly invisible for the DD-Pings, when stoping engine would add a special game design. The Submarine player has to estimate, when and where he can stop his engine to hide. The DD player has to estimate, where he could have stopped with the help of previous pings to estimate the course of the submarine. This is a play between submarine and dd. Both have to gamble. The submarine gambles and hopes not to get found, and the DD gambles with the DCs and hopes for blind hits.

Additionally, if the submarine is on silent running, the submarine can't spot anything, also not proximity spotting.

It's also important, that a submarine can't spot for teammates, when submerged. Otherwise the sub can just spot the DD and wait for his death. Thus the gameplay is also more DD vs Sub, than other just punishing the DD easily. In the stream you said, that stealth running could be boring. But I say no, almost nobody, who likes to play submarine games will think that, I'm pretty sure. It's one of the major things, that gives a submarine player a real thrill!

 

Further explanation of the gameplay

  • If a Sub gets engaged by a DD, the Sub has two options - running away and hiding with 0 knots.
  • The DD will ping the Sub and find her last position, thus the sub can move a bit away and then stop to 0 knots.
  • Now the Sub has no clue, where the DD is, but also the DD has not idea about the real position of the Sub. The thrill starts. The DD estimates the position of the Sub
  • The sub sees the DCs exploding. Now the Sub can stay hidden, or try to take an advantage of it, go to presicope depth, and if the DD is in a bad position, the Sub can Torp the DD.
  • If the Sub did a bad estimation, the DD will kill her.
  • The Gameplay has the factors of the torping gamplay of a DD.
  • A DD has to be good in prediction. But also the ship (a bb?) has to be good in predictions to dodge the torps. It's a gamble

 

Changes, which will be needed for that

  • The DCs have a far to big detonation radius. It would be to easy to hit a silent running Sub -> Change the DCs, maybe zoning the damage like 1000m-500m very low damage, 500m-100m good damage, 100m-0m very high damage (instant kill or two shot?)
  • Nerfing the DCs would not be a hard nerf to the DDs, because in silent running the DD is not spotted, because the Sub can't spot
  • It will need maybe some tweaks for the pinging function of the DD, if it's too easy to estimate the position of the Sub

 


2. Deckgun


Spoiler

 

In a point of realism the deck guns are of course only against transport ships. But this is a PvP game, with non-realistic game designs. Thus in sake of pvp-aspects the deck guns could be a nice option. An Option compared to torpedos for a BB or ramming. Something that happens not often, but can be useful sometimes! If a DD or Cruiser is really low (less 1000 HP), then a Sub could try to outplay the DD with the Deckgun. That means the deckgun have to be designed, that it can actually do a bit damage. This is also important for a submarine like Surcouf (May as premium?)

 

The Cachalot had a 76 mm. The penetration modifier should be /4 instead of /6, thus the Cachalot would get a penetration capability of 19mm. Thus the Cachalot can penetrate DDs and superstructure of many ships. The U-69 had a 88 mm gun. She should get also /4 modifier, this means 22mm penetration capabiltiy. For the Japanese: The I-58 and I-400 for exmaple had 140mm guns. That means those don't even need the /4 modifier and go with the normal /6. Thus the penetration capability for japanese boats would be 23mm. Of course it could go with /4 as well for being the best deck-gun boat.

 

Sigma should be really good, since they have only one gun.

Range of the guns should be around 6 km - 9 km.

Reload around 3s - 5s.

Guns turn only, when on surface

 

Overview of Data

 

Cachalot
Deckgun: 76mm
Modifier: 4
Pen. Capabiltiy: 19mm

 

U-69
Deckgun: 88mm
Modifier: 4
Pen. Capabiltiy: 22mm

 

I-58 / I-400
Deckgun: 140mm
Modifier: 4 or 6
Pen. Capabiltiy: 35mm or 23mm

 

Surfcouf

Guns: 203 mm

Modifier: 6

Pen Capability: 33mm

 

 

Usage

 

  • Gunfight with other Subs, if nothing else is left
  • Surprise fire, when enemies are not aimed at a Sub, to set those maybe on fire or reset caps.
  • Finish of <5% HP ships (especially DD, otherwise a no-HP ship would be still superior over a full Hp vessel in many cases)
  • More engaging possibilties for the Sub gameplay

 

 


3. Damage, when out of Oxygen


Spoiler

If a submarine is out of oxygen, the submarine should receivce damage over time (maybe a perma-flooding?). The point of this is, that a submarine commander can decide, if he prefers to take a bit damage, or surface. Also this prevents from that stupid submerge-surface-submerge mechanic, when out of oxygen. If a submarine submerges instantly with 1% oxygen, if would likely take damage form staying under the water, until it surfaces again.

 


4. Fog mortar for BB and CV


Spoiler

A new counter measurement for captial ships against subs (and other) could be a fog mortar. Ships like BB and CV get one charge (2 with SI) for a fog mortar. This can be short ~2km in any direction and gives the large ships an escape tool against submarines.
If a solo submarine approaches a battleship, the battleship can shoot a smoke in front of herself and turn around inside the smoke to move away from the submarine.

With this new smoke tool, the CV would also not need the Fighter squad, that starts from the CV. Against CV sniping, the CV could smoke himself or move together with the rest of the fleet and smoke then.

 


5. AA


Spoiler

The AA could be protection against perma spotting CVs, who use Fighter squads above the Subs. Fighter squads don't have much HP, thus the Sub just could shot themself down.

 


6. Aquisition range


Spoiler

When on periscope depth, the aquisition range of the sub should be shorter, since it can't see further than when on surface.

 

 

7. Icon for submarines


Spoiler

Here my suggestion for the Icon. A circle would be a good fit, imo. And with the a tip, the direction is obvious.

 

2081408909_subicon.png.3daedae6faee47719725769db58aeb50.png

 

If it's still to close to DD icon, then this:

 

412685483_subicon2.png.863308b07de28c278d1dbc51da5e7b09.png

 

 

 

 

8. DC for cruiser


Spoiler

Since the Dcs are now manual and not related to the circle-ping mechanic. Cruiser could now get the DCs, which can occasionally useful

 

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1 hour ago, Pikkozoikum said:

2. Deckgun


  Reveal hidden contents

 

In a point of realism the deck guns are of course only against transport ships. But this is a PvP game, with non-realistic game designs. Thus in sake of pvp-aspects the deck guns could be a nice option. An Option compared to torpedos for a BB or ramming. Something that happens not often, but can be useful sometimes! If a DD or Cruiser is really low (less 1000 HP), then a Sub could try to outplay the DD with the Deckgun. That means the deckgun have to be designed, that it can actually do a bit damage. This is also important for a submarine like Surcouf (May as premium?)

 

The Cachalot had a 76 mm. The penetration modifier should be /4 instead of /6, thus the Cachalot would get a penetration capability of 19mm. Thus the Cachalot can penetrate DDs and superstructure of many ships. The U-69 had a 88 mm gun. She should get also /4 modifier, this means 22mm penetration capabiltiy. For the Japanese: The I-58 and I-400 for exmaple had 140mm guns. That means those don't even need the /4 modifier and go with the normal /6. Thus the penetration capability for japanese boats would be 23mm. Of course it could go with /4 as well for being the best deck-gun boat.

 

Sigma should be really good, since they have only one gun.

 

Overview of Data

 

Cachalot
Deckgun: 76mm
Modifier: 4
Pen. Capabiltiy: 19mm

 

U-69
Deckgun: 88mm
Modifier: 4
Pen. Capabiltiy: 22mm

 

I-58 / I-400
Deckgun: 76mm
Modifier: 4 or 6
Pen. Capabiltiy: 35mm or 23mm

 

Surfcouf

Guns: 203 mm

Modifier: 6

Pen Capability: 33mm

 

 

SS should have regular gun performance imo, not any special rules like 1/4 pen to ensure their guns are effective. They are not killing machines who should be able to coup de grace anything with incredibly low HP unless they are one of the rarer submarines with medium calibre guns.

1 hour ago, Pikkozoikum said:

3. Damage, when out of Oxygen


  Reveal hidden contents

If a submarine is out of oxygen, the submarine should receivce damage over time (maybe a perma-flooding?). The point of this is, that a submarine commander can decide, if he prefers to take a bit damage, or surface. Also this prevents from that stupid submerge-surface-submerge mechanic, when out of oxygen. If a submarine submerges instantly with 1% oxygen, if would likely take damage form staying under the water, until it surfaces again.

 

So that SS can just suffocate themselves and deny kills to the enemy? No.

1 hour ago, Pikkozoikum said:

4. Fog mortar for BB and CV


  Reveal hidden contents

A new counter measurement for captial ships against subs (and other) could be a fog mortar. Ships like BB and CV get one charge (2 with SI) for a fog mortar. This can be short ~2km in any direction and gives the large ships an escape tool against submarines.
If a solo submarine approaches a battleship, the battleship can shoot a smoke in front of herself and turn around inside the smoke to move away from the submarine.

With this new smoke tool, the CV would also not need the Fighter squad, that starts from the CV. Against CV sniping, the CV could smoke himself or move together with the rest of the fleet and smoke then.

 

Smoke on capitals is an absolutely ridiculous idea that would have far more use against other surface ships than it would against any SS. Capital defence against SS should be intelligence and situational awareness.

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21 minutes ago, Astolfo_Is_My_Waifu said:

SS should have regular gun performance imo, not any special rules like 1/4 pen to ensure their guns are effective. They are not killing machines who should be able to coup de grace anything with incredibly low HP unless they are one of the rarer submarines with medium calibre guns.

  • Harugumo disagrees with you.
  • Ships have special guns rules. All japanese 100mm guns have 1/4 pens. Special AP mechanics for US ships. German He secondaries have also higher penetrations. There are already many special rules as you see.
  • Read the full text. I said it's for those cases, when a ship is on low HP. I played Steel Ocean and it happend often, that there is a low hp DD chasing a submarine.
  • There are many IJN subs with 140mm
  • There is Surcouf with 203 mm.
  • Making guns avaiable also means make subs like Surcouf as prem viable. Otherwise it would't make much sense
  • Actually I don't care about special rules, I'm IJN player, and those have 140mm guns.
21 minutes ago, Astolfo_Is_My_Waifu said:

So that SS can just suffocate themselves and deny kills to the enemy? No.

If it is such a huge deal for you, then the last hitting ship will get the kill.

 

21 minutes ago, Astolfo_Is_My_Waifu said:

Smoke on capitals is an absolutely ridiculous idea that would have far more use against other surface ships than it would against any SS. Capital defence against SS should be intelligence and situational awareness.

It will grant captial ships an escape tool against everything, sure. But keep in mind, while they get a tool against everyship, they game gains a new shiptype against those ships.Also there are on both sides captial ships with smoke mortars, so it's actually balanced teamwise.

Also the advantage is not even that huge, since BBs can't smoke fire.

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1 minute ago, Pikkozoikum said:
  • Harugumo disagrees with you.
  • Ships have special guns rules. All japanese 100mm guns have 1/4 pens. Special AP mechanics for US ships. German He secondaries have also higher penetrations. There are already many special rules as you see.
  • Read the full text. I said it's for those cases, when a ship is on low HP. I played Steel Ocean and it happend often, that there is a low hp DD chasing a submarine.
  • There are many IJN subs with 140mm
  • There is Surcouf with 203 mm.
  • Making guns avaiable also means make subs like Surcouf as prem viable.
  • Actually I don't care about special rules, I'm IJN player, and those have 140mm guns.
  • Harugumo has nothing to do with this.
  • Ships have special rules when they are gunboats that use the the smallest main calibre guns in the game at tier 10 and need to penetrate things. Not when in game they are stealthy torpedo focused vessels with a single 76mm gun.
  • I understand you think that just because it would be beneficial to SS in that scenario that that justifies it. It does not justify it, why should SS have this? Why should an SS be able to surface against someone with like 5% hp left and have a good chance of killing them with what should be a pathetic deck gun?
  • IJN 140mm guns will penetrate 22mm of armor, no special rule required.
  • Surcoufs 203mm guns will penetrate 32mm of armor, no special rule required.
  • The guns will already be as viable as cruisers guns on an SS should be.
  • ok
13 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

If it is such a huge deal for you, then the last hitting ship will get the kill.

And if the totally undamaged SS decides that the stomp isnt worth playing and he should just kill himself and go back to port? I'm just not going to endorse any mechanic that enables someone to suicide tbh.

 

16 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

It will grant captial ships an escape tool against everything, sure. But keep in mind, while they get a tool against everyship, they game gains a new shiptype against those ships.Also there are on both sides captial ships with smoke mortars, so it's actually balanced teamwise

If BBs and CVs deserve any tool to counter SS with it shouldnt be something that works against basically everything, just because it makes the capitals on both teams stronger doesnt make it balanced, because the cruisers and DDs who are facing those BB who now have smoke now have to contend with those ships having smoke. Having BBs that can smoke will just render other classes less viable by comparison. And what about if there are modes like the current ones that dont have CVs where SS are not included? Now you just have smoke BBs.

 

Its not even clear yet whether capitals need a tool, they already declared balance changes to reduce the damage to larger ships.

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5 minutes ago, Astolfo_Is_My_Waifu said:
  • Harugumo has nothing to do with this.
  • Ships have special rules when they are gunboats that use the the smallest main calibre guns in the game at tier 10 and need to penetrate things. Not when in game they are stealthy torpedo focused vessels with a single 76mm gun.
  • I understand you think that just because it would be beneficial to SS in that scenario that that justifies it. It does not justify it, why should SS have this? Why should an SS be able to surface against someone with like 5% hp left and have a good chance of killing them with what should be a pathetic deck gun?
  • IJN 140mm guns will penetrate 22mm of armor, no special rule required.
  • Surcoufs 203mm guns will penetrate 32mm of armor, no special rule required.
  • The guns will already be as viable as cruisers guns on an SS should be.
  • ok

2. The special rules are not for gunboats. That are nation traits. Thus subs can have national trades as well. The Kii has 1/4 penetrations with her secondaries - a special rule. Is Kii a gunboat or a seondary-build ship? No. So special rules exists, and can be applied on subs as well, otherwise it would be a special rule for subs, when they are not allwoed to have special rules.

3. It's a fun mechanic like it's a fun mechanic that some BBs have torps. Or it is a fun mechanic to ram other ships. Do you not like fun?

4. and 5. Yes, but the point is, to make deck guns viable, we have to make them viable for every sub, not only for 4 subs... Otherwise there would be subs with 100% chance of shattering, which makes no sense game design wise.

6. As I said, it makes no sense to create a type of ships, and only one or two have complete different mechanics. It would be like giving the moskwa guided rockets. Thus you have to make guns viable for all Subs, not only IJN and France.

 

10 minutes ago, Astolfo_Is_My_Waifu said:

And if the totally undamaged SS decides that the stomp isnt worth playing and he should just kill himself and go back to port? I'm just not going to endorse any mechanic that enables someone to suicide tbh.

You could do that in Steel Ocean, but nobody did that, only when they underestimated it, and died because of bad planning.

Everyone can suicide easily, just move full broadside in the first 2 minute. If someone suicides in the first minute, he gets 0 ep. I see there no difference in the end result, if you get an undamged bb at the border, though the sub could still be more useful, even after suiciding.

I mean, otherwise you can also suicide by just staying surfaced? wont take not much longer, actually it would go faster, because the draining could take a bit longer than one salvo of a cruiser or bb.

 

14 minutes ago, Astolfo_Is_My_Waifu said:

If BBs and CVs deserve any tool to counter SS with it shouldnt be something that works against basically everything, just because it makes the capitals on both teams stronger doesnt make it balanced, because the cruisers and DDs who are facing those BB who now have smoke now have to contend with those ships having smoke. Having BBs that can smoke will just render other classes less viable by comparison. And what about if there are modes like the current ones that dont have CVs where SS are not included? Now you just have smoke BBs.

 

Its not even clear yet whether capitals need a tool, they already declared balance changes to reduce the damage to larger ships.

When you don't like it, I can't change it. I think it wouldn't make BBs op. Every team would have BBs with this kind of smoke. In Steel Ocean that was even the case, I like the idea to give the big ships a teamplay-tool

 

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6 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

2. The special rules are not for gunboats. That are nation traits. Thus subs can have national trades as well. The Kii has 1/4 penetrations with her secondaries - a special rule. Is Kii a gunboat or a seondary-build ship? No. So special rules exists, and can be applied on subs as well, otherwise it would be a special rule for subs, when they are not allwoed to have special rules.

3. It's a fun mechanic like it's a fun mechanic that some BBs have torps. Or it is a fun mechanic to ram other ships. Do you not like fun?

4. and 5. Yes, but the point is, to make deck guns viable, we have to make them viable for every sub, not only for 4 subs... Otherwise there would be subs with 100% chance of shattering, which makes no sense game design wise.

6. As I said, it makes no sense to create a type of ships, and only one or two have complete different mechanics. It would be like giving the moskwa guided rockets. Thus you have to make guns viable for all Subs, not only IJN and France.

Then it might apply to IJN subs with 100mm guns then, which to my knowledge was only the I-165 class.

Sure I like fun. The guns can cause damage and start fires. But 76 and 88mm deck guns dont need special rules to ensure all submarines can finish low hp targets.

And making guns viable on some ships and not others is the same as making secondaries viable on some BBs but not others. The guns can function, they dont have to be made a guarantee.

 

15 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

You could do that in Steel Ocean, but nobody did that, only when they underestimated it, and died because of bad planning.

Everyone can suicide easily, just move full broadside in the first 2 minute. If someone suicides in the first minute, he gets 0 ep. I see there no difference in the end result, if you get an undamged bb at the border, though the sub could still be more useful, even after suiciding.

I mean, otherwise you can also suicide by just staying surfaced? wont take not much longer, actually it would go faster, because the draining could take a bit longer than one salvo of a cruiser or bb.

I've never played Steel Ocean and I don't care how it works, because this is WoWS not Steel Ocean.

A suicide means killing yourself, not having someone else kill you. An SS can deny enemy teams a kill out of spite by remaining submerged and waiting for his HP to run out. It's like the WoT arty that would decide a game is lost and throw themselves off a cliff or drown themselves to deny the enemy from killing them before they had ever been spotted.

It's not the dying part, it's the part about denying the enemy the kill, especially for a class that could potentially go an entire game undetected.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Astolfo_Is_My_Waifu said:

Then it might apply to IJN subs with 100mm guns then, which to my knowledge was only the I-165 class.

Sure I like fun. The guns can cause damage and start fires. But 76 and 88mm deck guns dont need special rules to ensure all submarines can finish low hp targets.

And making guns viable on some ships and not others is the same as making secondaries viable on some BBs but not others. The guns can function, they dont have to be made a guarantee.

The germans 88mm are some famous and well known guns. So we can do the special rule, that all german 88mm guns have a special penetration of 1/4 penetration just like most seconadries of the germans. Also every ship type: BBs, Cruisers, DDs have special gun rules. Why shouldn't that count for Subs?

It's unlogical, if some are allowed to have special rules, but other not. And as game design it makes only sense, to give the deck guns the capabiltiy to damage superstructure. It's even realistic, then I can't remember, that the superstructure were able to shatter HE shells. Thus it makes only sense in multiple ways.

 

6 minutes ago, Astolfo_Is_My_Waifu said:

I've never played Steel Ocean and I don't care how it works, because this is WoWS not Steel Ocean.

If you don't care about proof, then I can't help you. It's like I would say "In Battlefield are vehicles, those could work in Call of Duty as well" and you say, "No it's CoD and not Battle Field". you can compare similiar games and take over some mechanics. That works. Somtimes it's better to take already existing mechanics, instead of creating new ones.

 

9 minutes ago, Astolfo_Is_My_Waifu said:

A suicide means killing yourself, not having someone else kill you. An SS can deny enemy teams a kill out of spite by remaining submerged and waiting for his HP to run out. It's like the WoT arty that would decide a game is lost and throw themselves off a cliff or drown themselves to deny the enemy from killing them before they had ever been spotted.

It's not the dying part, it's the part about denying the enemy the kill, especially for a class that could potentially go an entire game undetected. 

I don't see a point there. Denying the enemy team a kill - that's game breaking, totally. If this is just such a big deal for you. Then you can just make it, if submarine has 100% hp and dies by suicide, he gets a penalty for 1 TK. It's unlikely to abuse that. Who is able to survive a whole game without taking damage and than doesn't notice, that he is slowly dying from 100% down to 0%, that's very unlikely.

 

How about you focus on good ideas, instead of complaining about stuff, that you don't like? We won't make any progress, if everything gets denied.

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Changes sound good, can't test them myself because invitation is 404 not found:Smile_smile:

 

Don't like idea of not having variable depth akin to Terror of the Deep and adding arbitrary consumable to act as one. In return, depth charges could have two/three depth settings, which you could toggle just like one toggles between narrow and wide torpedo spread. Lets say, three depth settings of 30m, 60m and 90m. If you guess depth correctly, charges would inflict massive damage, maybe on par with first test iteration (based on available footage). If you mismatch, then either charges would cause superficial damage akin to overpens, while massively missing the mark (30m setting against sub at 80m) would do no damage whatsoever.

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I would really like to enable the auto resupply of my consumables . but alas they are covered . the Modules ui is to big and does not scroll . 

 image.png.194fb6dfca8229a8a2e1d0a2f40474f8.png

as you can see it is hidden behind the ships .

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On 10/4/2019 at 4:13 PM, powerverde said:

@Colonel_Vessery Are subs hit by torpedos? Do deep water torpedos hit subs at lower depth?

Torpedos can hit Submarines - but it does depend on what depth they are on. Right now deep water torpedoes don't have that role yet but we're checking options. What you definitely can do is use the active sonar ping on submarines on other submarines - these torpedoes then also follow the submarine when it's diving.

 

On 10/3/2019 at 8:53 PM, Crichten said:

It would be nice if we could have a confirmation of when the Beta invites have been sent out so at least I then know when to stop staring at my inbox ;)

Hey, I'll try to keep you updated about waves when I can :)

 

Greetings, Crysantos

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1 hour ago, Nibloke said:

Can you do damage with depth charges to enemy ships (not subs)?

Not that I have noticed . as they are Depth Charges they only explode under water . .  :Smile_honoring:

If a friendly sub is near enough to  an enemy sub them yep  , it is possible.

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On 10/6/2019 at 3:00 PM, gmomkey said:

I would really like to enable the auto resupply of my consumables . but alas they are covered . the Modules ui is to big and does not scroll . 

 image.png.194fb6dfca8229a8a2e1d0a2f40474f8.png

as you can see it is hidden behind the ships .

Try to change the View, maybe that works?

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I like your idea @Pikkozoikum

image.png.8d32b57c859f1f640331da0ebfd5b694.png

the Icon in game is confusing at a distance it looks like a DD . a Different shape like this or fish shaped to represent the Sub shape would be Awesome , and easy to differentiate between the DD's and Sub's . 

 

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12 hours ago, Nibloke said:

Can you do damage with depth charges to enemy ships (not subs)?

No.

 

11 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Try to change the View, maybe that works?

What resolution are you using?

 

40 minutes ago, gmomkey said:

I like your idea @Pikkozoikum

image.png.8d32b57c859f1f640331da0ebfd5b694.png

the Icon in game is confusing at a distance it looks like a DD . a Different shape like this or fish shaped to represent the Sub shape would be Awesome , and easy to differentiate between the DD's and Sub's . 

 

The reason why we use the DD icon is to be able to indicate alignment / direction of the submarine - so when they use the sonar ping, that you can have an idea of where the torps might probably go and where the sub is located. But I'll forward your suggestion.

 

Greetings, Crysantos

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I am Liking the crispness of the ui 

image.png.c74c07401810dd099a89e16b62f5abd7.png

image.png.f01de300ba4a76ffcd1fcf0db4835d73.png

in game it is clear and crisp . nice one WG :Smile_honoring:

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