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SvR1983

Russian Cruisers - Does it get better after the Kirov?

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So I'm currently advancing my cruiser lines. Especially when compared to the British Cruisers, the Kirov just isn't much fun. Rudder is extreme sluggish, it has almost no armor and the shell dispersion and reload times are horrible. A full broadside does on average significant less damage than with the Emerald for example. It also lacks consumables (smoke screen, health) for tactical gameplay and the torpedos are almost useless (on the upside, people are surprised and unprepared when you actually use them).

 

Does it get better with higher tiers or should I just stick to the British? 

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Tip: just spam HE

 

I think that it does get better in my opinion, I actually had a good time with my Kirov, I now have the Budyonny and she's good. 

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for me personally, Budyonny is the highlight of the line... not that the others arent strong, but being a max-range HE spammer like the Shchors isnt all that much fun when you turn worse than most BBs at your tier... and I just hate the Moskva :Smile_teethhappy:

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Kirov is incredible.

 

Russian cruisers are balanced as high speed/long range cruisers with excellent AP and HE. Flank and Kite. Tier 6-8 are more reliant on HE.

 

9 minutes ago, wot_2016_gunner said:

Tip: just spam HE

 

Tip:

Kirov AP matches most 8" cruisers and has 100mm(!) more pen than Emerald at all ranges. HE will shatter on most BB dreadnoughts in your MM spread, so fires are key. If they're already burning use AP on broadside/superstructure or switch target. (IFHE is a nerf at tier 5. Tier 6-8 152mm cruisers are more reliant on HE, that's where you want IFHE)

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1 minuto fa, creamgravy ha scritto:

Kirov is incredible.

 

Russian cruisers are balanced as high speed/long range cruisers with excellent AP and HE. Flank and Kite.

 

 

Tip:

Kirov AP matches most 8" cruisers and has 100mm(!) more pen than Emerald at all ranges. HE will shatter on most BB dreadnoughts in your MM spread, so fires are key. If they're already burning use AP on broadside/superstructure or switch target. (IFHE is a nerf at tier 5)

I meant in general for the line. 

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18 minutes ago, SvR1983 said:

Especially when compared to the British Cruisers

Well, yes... just don't forget that they are meant to be played differently!

 

RU cruisers are mid-long range support. Excellent ballistics, good fire-starting ability, fast... just not very maneuverable!

 

So, when with RN cruisers you get close and dirty with DD's, abuse island cover and smoke, and spam sAP and torps... RU cruisers rain down accurate HE fire from range on any targets in range. Burn down BB's, smack DD's and annoy cruisers. 'Torps' is what you call that marker that shows you how the enemy is moving when you switch from HE to that '3' ammo type. You don't click because you're never near enough to hit anything.

 

AP is also brutal against broadside cruisers and upper-belt of BB's

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21 minutes ago, SvR1983 said:

Does it get better with higher tiers or should I just stick to the British?

No, they get worse. See Russian Cruiser, think Citadel. (Unless it's one of those ludicrous ones you get for steel). You might like the French or American ones better. 

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21 minutes ago, SvR1983 said:

So I'm currently advancing my cruiser lines. Especially when compared to the British Cruisers, the Kirov just isn't much fun. Rudder is extreme sluggish, it has almost no armor and the shell dispersion and reload times are horrible. A full broadside does on average significant less damage than with the Emerald for example. It also lacks consumables (smoke screen, health) for tactical gameplay and the torpedos are almost useless (on the upside, people are surprised and unprepared when you actually use them).

 

Does it get better with higher tiers or should I just stick to the British? 

Entire russian line from Kirov onwards is all about "high speed, NO maneuverability glass cannons for long range shelling". Moskva can tank when angled for hilarious amount of time, but when caught broadside, she can disappear faster than Minotaur.

 

Reload does improve on tier 6-8, as you go down in caliber. Tier 9 brings you back to the same reload and caliber, albeit with much better ballistics and you get turret extra.

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1 minute ago, wot_2016_gunner said:

I meant in general for the line. 

 

:Smile_great:

 

Kirov is another of those modern ships that would work better on bigger tier 6+ maps.

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I'm currently grinding through the Kirov myself. Guns are fantastic with excellent range and accuracy. I found the ship itself to be poor though. It has good speed but nothing much what you can do with the speed other than maybe try to run away since it has poor camo that gets it spotted about the same time as a typical BB, turns about as badly as a BB and it's a very large and easily hit unit with sh*t armor throughout. Yesterday I was very annoyed to find that I got "outplayed" by another cruisers who sat in the open like a muppet showing me his entire broadside while I pointed my Kirov straight at him and yet he took only some damage from 3 citadel hits while I was killed off with just two volleys from full hp, all through the front of my ship, wt*? It's either made of citadels and ammo racks of else that guy has access to Harpoon missiles. It's better than the tier4, which wouldn't be hard, but the sweet handling guns is undermined by a trashy performing ship. 

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Soviet Cruisers line is a solid/good line. I personally love them. But, with exception of Moskva, they are quite squishy. They preferred play-style is staying at range and spam HE and AP when there is an opportunity for it. They can't tank much so they are less then ideal for push. If you can play them properly they could reward you with good results. If not you'll die quickly.

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5 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

See Russian Cruiser, think Citadel. (Unless it's one of those ludicrous ones you get for steel).

 

Stalingrad probably has the largest Citadel of them all :cap_haloween: Moskva might be same/equal

 

33 minutes ago, SvR1983 said:

It also lacks consumables (smoke screen, health)

Thats the gimmick of the RN Line. Others never get smoke, and heal only on T9/10. Only some premium Cruisers have smoke, and some Premium Cruisers have heal on T8

 

I think, russian Cruisers are hard to master but extremely powerful if played correctly. But none of them is nimble, they are long bricks in the water which basicly turn like BBs. And they have big citadels without much armor.
Budyonny is a bit tougher than the others, Shchors is made of paper f.e.

And Moskva in the end is extremely tanky, but the playstyle usually is: Bow to enemy, and sit. It has a huge citadel, but otherwise strong armor (50mm) for a Cruiser, so BBs have a hard time overmatching it.

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Budyonny is probably the best tier 6 cruiser. Best at long range HE spam but has very good AP and good torps for brawling.

I remember Flamu had a video where he brawled with two battleships and won.

 

Kirov doesn’t need IFHE as it’s guns pen most playing to tier 7. The rest of the line does require IFHE until Moskva. Schors was my highlight of the range kiting away with those accurate guns.

 

I just completed regrinding this line and had a lot of fun.

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Thanks for your input. I'll try out at least the Budyonny then.

 

My biggest issue is not that the Kirov doesn't do damage when it hits. It's that the shell dispersion is quite bad. The shells usually land far away from where they were pointed at. What would be a full broadside with an Emerald is often just a 1 or 2 ricochet hit with the Kirov. And with the long reload times, it takes longer to find a firing solution.

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52 minutes ago, SvR1983 said:

So I'm currently advancing my cruiser lines. Especially when compared to the British Cruisers, the Kirov just isn't much fun. Rudder is extreme sluggish, it has almost no armor and the shell dispersion and reload times are horrible. A full broadside does on average significant less damage than with the Emerald for example. It also lacks consumables (smoke screen, health) for tactical gameplay and the torpedos are almost useless (on the upside, people are surprised and unprepared when you actually use them).

 

Does it get better with higher tiers or should I just stick to the British? 

 

Chalk and cheese my friend.

 

RN and Russian cruisers couldn't be further apart if you tried.  

 

They play different, have different roles and are kitted out differently.

 

So if you currently like the RN crusier "Thing" then stay away from Russian Cruisers.  However, if you fancy a change of gameplay then it's a good solid line.

 

Buddy and Donsky are 2 of my Fav Cruisers in the game and both keepers. Chappy is a CB's favourt of many and the Moskva is the Grads baby but-not-so-good brother.

 

They really do play different but IMHO the Russian Crusier line is a easy line to grind. With no real stinkers (including the Kriov which has strong AP). I enjoyed them all except the Moskva, but that is still a strong ship (very tanky) i just don't like the ship it's self.  The Grad simply hits alot harder if i really wanna play that kinda style. 

 

Just please take your RN cruiser captains head off when playing Russian cruisers. 

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The TVI Budjonny is a monster that would work very well at TVII. 

With IFHE the guns are hard hitting and set fires with almost every salvo, and the spotter plane ensures, that even BBs at long range can be BBQed. 

 

The shell arcs at shorter ranges are perfectly useable to wreck DDs and the AP hits broad siding cruisers hard at even 10 - 12 km.

Lower tier BBs who give broadside are easily penetrated with AP at the upper belt/ superstructure for massive volleys. 

 

AA is eh, and the TVI is somewhat tanky when angled, which helps rushing BBs and torp them.

 

The TVII Schchors is basically the same, although with more accurate BB guns and higher caliber cruiser guns ist squishiness becomes an real issue.

This one should be played at 14 - 15 km to increase survivability. 

 

The Chapayev is basically a Schchors without spotter plane but with radar instead. 

Very squishy, but the guns are good and in combination with other ships (Kutuzov for instance) can be a real game changer. 

AA is ok-ish if specced for it, which i recommend.

 

Donskoi is a more tanky version of the Chapayev  and Moskva is...Moskva, basically a light version of the Stalingrad. 

The original super/ battle cruiser and even after the introduction of other super/ battle cruisers into high tiers, it still is a force. 

Glad to see that the introduction of new ships didn't cause older ones to be power creeped to oblivion...oh wait, applies only to russian ships. ^^

 

 

My captain build recommendation for TVI - VIII: 

 

Build for concealment first, these ships are very very squishy - except battleship Moskva - and you do not want to get spotted first.

Build for AA as even TVI rocket planes can do massive damage to them. 

Take IFHE last as those ships are primarily DD hunters/ BB torchers and IFHE is not necessarily needed for any of those tasks.

Fire is your main source of damage, followed by AP vs anything that shows broadsides.

 

 

The thing with the RU cruiser line is, it's not as much affected by meta and meta changes as other cruiser lines. 

It basically doesn't care whether there is an overbundance of DDs, BBs or Cruisers in the MM.

 

It's only (mortal) enemies are CVs of any tier. This line is timeless and didn't age a bit.

 

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10 minutes ago, SvR1983 said:

Thanks for your input. I'll try out at least the Budyonny then.

 

My biggest issue is not that the Kirov doesn't do damage when it hits. It's that the shell dispersion is quite bad. The shells usually land far away from where they were pointed at. What would be a full broadside with an Emerald is often just a 1 or 2 ricochet hit with the Kirov. And with the long reload times, it takes longer to find a firing solution.

Dispersion formula is the same as on any other cruiser, though there is a "lock on" bug going on for quite some time. Basically if ship you were aiming at disappears and then reappears, interface suggests you still have lock on, but somehow dispersion bonus from said lock on isn't applied. Basically unlock and lock again to fix that.

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Like others have mentioned. Budyonny is excellent, maybe the best of the mine. The rest are good but require good positioning and map awareness. 

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So far as large tier5 cruisers with slow reloads go, I much prefer the Furutaka. Even though it's noticeably shorter on gun range when compared to the Kirov, it just seems to perform better and can more reliably take a beating without detonating from the first half aimed enemy shot. Plus having 4 60kts fish on each side with a 10km range to chuck overboard ain't too bad a feature either. 

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2 hours ago, wot_2016_gunner said:

I meant in general for the line. 

Kirov is incredible good, after her Budyonny is fun, Shors and Chapa are a chore to be done. Dimitry is fun with IFHE and Moskva is a great and nice cruiser if played right.

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Budyonny  is the ship that I liked most ( I dont have Moskva yet) to the Dmitri Donskoi. T7 and T8  I did not enjoyed that much but they are good.

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I enyoyed all light crusiers (T6-8) and you just have to adapt to their run and gun playstyle. Chapayev is a real treat since you can stealth radar without concealment expert, just remember to stay at distance, take IFHE before CE and spam the HE! 

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