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MadBadDave

Why are DD's so poor these days.

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I'm sat here pulling my hair out, after watching yet more shrubs trying to skipper DD's, who die within the first few milliseconds , leaving you as a BB driver exposed to Dakka HE cruisers, in your T8 BB, yep MM MOAN as well, AGAIN !,   I'm still lower tier at least 4-5 times more than top or even middle tier.

 

Anyway DD's given how poor the standard has become, you have to be concerned with the impending introduction of Subs, given that DD's are the counter, which BTW Cv's STILL don't have, and I've been seeing 4 DD's a game, all are dead within 5 minutes, instead of having the research bureau Couldn't WG introduce a  DD training grind before they can go up a tier, eg; in one game torp at least 6 times, cause 50k + damage, last longer than 5 seconds for a run of 10 games etc.

 

I know that most don't look at the mini-map but situational awareness is something these DD drivers don't have, torping with not looking where allied shipping is, I find myself dodging green torps as much as red torps these days.

 

What's to blame; yep the still unresolved cv rework, players are now returning to DD's and are hopeless.  Subs will be as dominant as cv's have been since the rework, thanks to the current DD standard. 

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2 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

Let's turn the question around, if you're any good why would you want to play higher tier DD these days?

 

Because if all the other DDs around you are s as f, you can have a huge impact.

 

6 minutes ago, MadBadDave said:

I'm sat here pulling my hair out, after watching yet more shrubs trying to skipper DD's, who die within the first few milliseconds

 

Because the somewhat decent DD player quit playing the class for reasions mentioned about. Only nabbs keep playing their "favourite" stuff over and over no matter how bad they are. Well, to them, it doesnt matter if there are 5 CVs and 20 radar ships, they kill themself anyway right away - fun fact: nice topic simultaniouisly right now going, where one of those specimns shows his true color "Muh like to suicide with muh DD is PHUN!"

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7 minutes ago, MadBadDave said:

I'm sat here pulling my hair out, after watching yet more shrubs trying to skipper DD's, who die within the first few milliseconds ,

 

Nuff said? :cap_tea:

 

3 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

Let's turn the question around, if you're any good why would you want to play higher tier DD these days?


Because they are still valuable and decide games?

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1 minute ago, mtm78 said:

Typical BB player post, blaming behavior of other classes on the lack of skill displayed by the average battleship player. 

 

Maybe. But in all fairness - you see a lot of really bad play from DDs recently. You also see tons of bad play from BBs ofc. They seem to have a contest and its not clear who wins.

 

 

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Because DD-players know that they won't get any help from the rest of the team so they have to take stupid risks to get some reward out of it.

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3 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

Maybe. But in all fairness - you see a lot of really bad play from DDs recently. You also see tons of bad play from BBs ofc. They seem to have a contest and its not clear who wins.

 

You see bad plays from all classes, but in topics created, it's mostly BB players whining about the other classes while forgetting who's fault it is in the first place we got so many DD's in game. 

 

4 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Because they are still valuable and decide games?

 

Because doing well in them regardless just gives my ego a bigger boost? I am more proud of my Jervis and even Vaquelin stats as on my Vladi win rate :)

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9 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

Let's turn the question around, if you're any good why would you want to play higher tier DD these days?

 

Radar everywhere, if that doesn't get you then the CV will, BB camping on line J whilst hurling abuse at you for not suiciding unsupported into the nearest cap.

 

Fun and engaging my :etc_swear:

DD gameplay at high tiers is fine. 

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Simple, because as soon as a DD gets to cap, his team mates are spotted and they just turn and run leaving said DD on there own, I DONT cap, I wait till I know where the radar ships are etc, then if i get support I cap.

 

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I need an updated BB BABY BINGO CARD, mine is out of date.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, SriverFX said:

DD gameplay at high tiers is fine.  

 

For anyone willing to learn, they indeed are. But the guy you quoted is singing this same old song for years (not even kidding, he literally is).

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1 hour ago, MadBadDave said:

Couldn't WG introduce a  DD training grind before they can go up a tier,

confused D with B, eh?

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29 minutes ago, MadBadDave said:

Anyway DD's given how poor the standard has become, you have to be concerned with the impending introduction of Subs, given that DD's are the counter,

Actually in testing and I've reported to WG in my feedback, the CV seems like the most effective counter to the sub.

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30 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Nuff said? :cap_tea:

Damndamndamn you were quicker than me. :Smile_veryhappy:

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20 minutes ago, VIadoCro said:

confused D with B, eh?

Not really. Taking into account that in many games all DDs are gone in the first 5 minutes, they should at learn how to survive instead of going like knuckleheads to cap blindly, get spotted, then smoke up, and stay in smoke, leaving you whole flank completely blind and unable to help or do anything at that side.

Yes, bad BB players stay back (like way, way back going sideways and doing nothing), but there are a lot of bad DD players that don't even know the basics of the class they are playing, and decide the game very early on.

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I'm grinding French DDs as an experienced DD player.

Main advise to all, regardless of tier: do NOT expect your team support. Only do what you can manage alone.

Out of 11 teammates, you will find 3-4 reading the chat. Sometimes you can work with them, but even so it comes up to where will I smoke you up.

Rely on yourself, pick tasks which you can manage alone (e.g. Friesland vs. stock no camo no CE T7 DD, torping noob BBs sailing in straight line for 3 minutes etc.).

Do not take risks early. DDs in mid-end game become extremely powerful, especially in a no-CV game.

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You either have DD’s rush off and die or those who sit behind team mates, a lot recently don’t even move until 1/2 the fleet are near cap points, am I the only one to see such behaviour ?. 

 

the cv rework almost killed off DD and even know it’s far to easy  to attack and kill DD’s, given the attack output of Plane weaponary (easier to kill low hp dd’s than go after a good aa BB).

 

Going by the responses so far it looks like DD players are exceptional, BTW I prefer DD’s and BB’s 😏

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11 minutes ago, MadBadDave said:

the cv rework almost killed off DD and even know it’s far to easy  to attack and kill DD’s, given the attack output of Plane weaponary (easier to kill low hp dd’s than go after a good aa BB).

 

image.png.9d8433140b97c858c3c864654b800710.png

 

:cap_old:

Last 3 weeks... It never stops once they find you (which isnt hard to begin with unless you sit behind your BBs)

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On 9/29/2019 at 12:55 PM, MadBadDave said:

I'm sat here pulling my hair out, after watching yet more shrubs trying to skipper DD's, who die within the first few milliseconds , leaving you as a BB driver exposed to Dakka HE cruisers, in your T8 BB, yep MM MOAN as well, AGAIN !,   I'm still lower tier at least 4-5 times more than top or even middle tier.

 

Anyway DD's given how poor the standard has become, you have to be concerned with the impending introduction of Subs, given that DD's are the counter, which BTW Cv's STILL don't have, and I've been seeing 4 DD's a game, all are dead within 5 minutes, instead of having the research bureau Couldn't WG introduce a  DD training grind before they can go up a tier, eg; in one game torp at least 6 times, cause 50k + damage, last longer than 5 seconds for a run of 10 games etc.

Sorry, but that kind of remark triggers me. The workload for DDs is higher than ever. DDs are abandoned if they are in the caps, they are bullied if they are not in the cap. They get hardly any AA cover. Wargaming basically left DDs to die with the CV rework and their less than bright idea to give CVs rocket planes that cannot be countered. Whoever still plays DDs is either not smart or very responsible towards the community. While BBs just push their F-buttons and farm Dreadnought achievements, DDs try to do a job, without which the game would be a boring camping duel.

 

Whoever complains about DDs, stop scratching your BB-testicles and play DDs yourself. Do a better job. Or write to WG and tell them how they blew the CV-rework and that it's time to remove CVs from the game.

One can complain about DDs but that only reveals one's ignorance. DDs have become the hardest class to play. Who still dares to learn them deserves rather respect than mocking. It's blatantly ironic, that any potato can play the biggest ships in history, ships who's command was historically given only to the most experienced and seasoned commanders, while DDs are the ships that really need experience in the game.

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I know that most don't look at the mini-map but situational awareness is something these DD drivers don't have, torping with not looking where allied shipping is, I find myself dodging green torps as much as red torps these days.

Maybe a BB dodging friendly torps lacks situational awareness, too. If a BB finds itself surrounded by friendly torps frequently, that BB is obviously sitting near a spot, where torps can be shot at prospective targets with a reasonable chance of hitting the enemy and causing significant damage. I have seen this quite often, when I play DDs: There is a gap between the islands, an enemy blob is sitting on the other side and one could torp into that blob and cause havoc. But a friendly BB is sitting behind an island next to that gap. The BB overextended, now he doesn't venture into the open cause he would get focussed. The BB is insecure and at some point he will try to move out of the island to maybe ram another BB and go out in a blaze of glory. If you torp, the guy suddenly accelerates out of that gap for no immediate reason and catches the torps. If you hold your fire, he is sitting there for minutes blocking friendly DDs from causing damage. The BB is effectively shielding the enemy team from damage. At the same time the enemy team can freely torp through that very same gap. I have seen games lost by one BB rendering all torp carrying vessels useless.

There is a thin line between a BB that is effectively pushing and a BB that is overextending and then ducking behind an island to sit there. Not saying that is you.

 

Just imagine the classical meme of a mid rush in Two Brothers. The whole enemy team is pushing through that channel. Now one of your own BBs has the brilliant idea of getting into the channel himself. Now the entire team has to hold fire, cause one friendly player moved himself into the line of fire. Who misplayed?

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What's to blame; yep the still unresolved cv rework, players are now returning to DD's and are hopeless.  Subs will be as dominant as cv's have been since the rework, thanks to the current DD standard. 

Exactly.

Point is there is nothing to resolve.

Wargaming is not trying to resolve anything. They ignore any criticism against the CV-rework. The discussion threat in the CV-rework is more than 400 pages now. It is left as a venting tool, nobody gives horse manure about the points listed there. We get no reaction. Wargaming is moving forward into uncharted waters with the subs, instead. They shy away from an open discussion, because they don't want to hear that the CV-rework failed and all the countless hours of work put into it were in vain. They instead try to persuade the community into liking the CV-class. They introduce CV-only missions, trying to get more players to play CVs. They bribe us with rewards and hope that we will eventually fall in love with CVs. Sorry, WG, if now only 3% of all ships played are CVs, no minor tweak is gonna have a major effect on their popularity. Pretty obvious, isn't it?

As long as there are CVs in the game, DDs won't work properly. How could they? They cannot evade rockets. The damage done by rocket planes is significant. The AA of a DD can not be unhistorically and game-breaking high. That is the three possibilities to make DDs work in CV-environments again, either taking the ability away to damage them seriously with planes, or give them a dodging ability or give them BB-levels of AA. None of this is likely to happen and nobody is discussing this.

On top of that DDs get radared and DDs see new DDs, specialized in hunting DDs. New DDs are designed to counter DDs. But once they killed the enemy DDs they are reduced to team-reliant dakka-dakka (Friesland) or open water kiting (french DDs), while lacking the ability to do dev strikes on the remaining BBs.

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I can only speak for myself, I used to regard myself as an ok DD player, far from the best out there but not shockingly bad either. I stopped playing DDs purely because the gameplay changed so much, I adapted to the smoke changes, adapted to radar, adapted to all the changes but didn't want to adapt yet again to the CV rework. I lost interest and have rarely played them since, and now it's been so long Im fairly sure I'd be one of those that died immediately..

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1 hour ago, mtm78 said:

 

Why can't WG introduce a BB training course, where they are tough how to properly support their team and not worry so much about getting their paint scratched.

vQpMUqF.gif

Amen...

 

I'm actually giving this game a serious break atm because the core of this game is about ships supporting other classes. Its how this game was designed to work. But WG decided to create a monster in their BB player base because they saw it as a quick way to earn money by pushing everyone (the larger player base) to tier x ASAP earning tons of cash on the way but not instilling any discipline or designing any campaigns/tasks  to ensure that that aspect (supporting role's) above all must be kept or the game falls apart....its all designed around an individual basis these days rather than a team one. which is why clans work and random is an absolute ses pit of incompetence.

 

How hard could it be to introduce though? Loose your DD's in the first 5 mins of the battle receive a penalty in points for the team . Same for cruisers. I rarely see anyone supporting DD's these days and BB stay at the back or island hug not supporting cruisers....who seem to be continuously dumped on by any changes in the meta WG deside to implement on a whim. hence the crap we have now. Its just a mess atm and I've lost all interest.

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4 minutes ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

 

Whoever complains about DDs, stop scratching your BB-testicles and play DDs yourself. Do a better job. Or write to WG and tell them how they blew the CV-rework and that it's time to remove CVs from the game.

 

Do you know what? I'm forced to do that a lot. I have to play DDs, so there is at least one player that knows how a DD is supposed be played. But do you also know what? I want to play other classes, but the other ships depend on the DD do to their job. Last game I played with my new Smolensk, I went to A in Okinawa to support our Gearing. Do you know what he did? He got spotted, put smoke, and sit in smoke for 2 minutes. 2 minutes the whole flank BLIND. I would not go spot cause I'd be dead in 1 minute with 5 ships lurking around there. Once the smoke was finished, the Gearing DD was killed pretty fast. The other 2 DDs in our team were dead within the first 5 minutes. We still managed to barely win cause we had some good players including our CV, that was able to spot a bit and don't leave us blind the rest of the game.

 

I expect a noob DD in tier 3,4,5 to put smoke and stay there, but at tier 10? WTF are you doing there? not spotting and waiting to be killed by torps/radar/hydro or just when the smoke is up?

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13 minutes ago, valrond said:

Do you know what? I'm forced to do that a lot. I have to play DDs, so there is at least one player that knows how a DD is supposed be played. But do you also know what? I want to play other classes, but the other ships depend on the DD do to their job. Last game I played with my new Smolensk, I went to A in Okinawa to support our Gearing. Do you know what he did? He got spotted, put smoke, and sit in smoke for 2 minutes. 2 minutes the whole flank BLIND. I would not go spot cause I'd be dead in 1 minute with 5 ships lurking around there. Once the smoke was finished, the Gearing DD was killed pretty fast. The other 2 DDs in our team were dead within the first 5 minutes. We still managed to barely win cause we had some good players including our CV, that was able to spot a bit and don't leave us blind the rest of the game.

 

I expect a noob DD in tier 3,4,5 to put smoke and stay there, but at tier 10? WTF are you doing there? not spotting and waiting to be killed by torps/radar/hydro or just when the smoke is up?

See this a lot. Classic example of no idea of their roll in the game. But that's Wg fault because they make no effort to instil the correct "Mindset" of individual classes and their specific roll in the game.

 

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