Implement option to switch between Main Armaments and Secondary

[VanD4rk]

Hello captains,

 

We all know by now that the sailors which are handling the secondary guns of our beloved ships comprise of a blind, drunken, retarded, StarTrooper-like mob which can't distinguish the sea from a ship and usually gets a hit ratio of 7% from pure luck.

If you really commit your captain skills to invest in those idiots a huge amount of points they will probably get a not-so-broken rangefinder and  a switch between their daily portion of rum to some non alcoholic drink which will result in an outstanding ... 15% hit ration. 

 

The improvement proposal is basically what is in the title with a small "balans" implementation to it:

 - when the captain  switch to the secondary guns it must remain in that mode for like 2 reload cycle of the main battery before switching back.  It is not possible to switch immediatly because you must send that mob of idiots to their quarters and then recall them to the battle stations...

This will assure that you cant switch back and forth all the time.

 

I think this idea is not quite new but maybe it is time that WG should consider adding it to the game with this small "balans" feature.

I hope it is not a duplicated idea.

 

Opinions about this ?

 

 

[Major_Damage225]

As mutch as i would like the secondaries being player controlled the chance of that happening will be the same as me being president of mars 

Thing is it would require a complete rebalance of lower tier ships (among other things) as quite a few ships with a heavy secondary battery would become lethal, plus the problem will be still that allot of players already have trouble finding AP, wasd, and the standard "insert spud mistakes here" 

[mtm78]

25 minutes ago, VanD4rk said:

Opinions about this ?

 

No.

 

To much rebalancing is only one side, the other is why buff battleships more? That is what this is right, since those have actual meaningful secondaries? On the other side, if WG buffs secondaries they might nerf BB main guns for balance reasons... you want that? Influence of BB's shouldn't increase what it is already.

 

Secondaries on other classes are not important at all, since main battery rof is high enough, so no one in a DD or CA/CL would ever find a need to use manual secondaries. 

[Sargento_YO]

I really would like to use the secondaries on a bb. However I do agree that would be too much powercreep.

Anyways... I don't see any reason of why one can't use the secondaries on a cruiser. That would further increase their role to fight against dds and others cruisers without becoming too OP

[Jethro_Grey]

No. Never. 

There are more important things to do. 

Besides, if you want player controlled secondaries, play WoWS blitz, they have those. 

[Fat_Maniac]

5 hours ago, VanD4rk said:

Hello captains,

 

We all know by now that the sailors which are handling the secondary guns of our beloved ships comprise of a blind, drunken, retarded, StarTrooper-like mob which can't distinguish the sea from a ship and usually gets a hit ratio of 7% from pure luck.

If you really commit your captain skills to invest in those idiots a huge amount of points they will probably get a not-so-broken rangefinder and  a switch between their daily portion of rum to some non alcoholic drink which will result in an outstanding ... 15% hit ration. 

 

The improvement proposal is basically what is in the title with a small "balans" implementation to it:

 - when the captain  switch to the secondary guns it must remain in that mode for like 2 reload cycle of the main battery before switching back.  It is not possible to switch immediatly because you must send that mob of idiots to their quarters and then recall them to the battle stations...

This will assure that you cant switch back and forth all the time.

 

I think this idea is not quite new but maybe it is time that WG should consider adding it to the game with this small "balans" feature.

I hope it is not a duplicated idea.

 

Opinions about this ?

 

 

Lets wait and see what the 2ndry rework that has been mentioned more than a few times by WG brings.

 

The best I think we will get for what you suggest is a secondary battery reload booster consumable, similar to the MBRB we have already.

[gopher31]

Would the Worchester guns on a Montana hull be balanced?

 

I'm not sure  wargaming should do this.

[Exocet6951]

What an unusual way to to spell "buff BBs please"

[MadBadDave]

I’m happy with how I select my manual secondaries, my only complaint is that they should target the superstructure instead of the hill.

[VanD4rk]

I read some of your opinions and my intention with this is not to make the BBs overpowered thats why I wanted to limit the switching time between Main and secondary guns.

That can also be changed to 3 /4 times the time of reload on main guns meaning that on a BB you can use the main guns after 2 mins.

I dont see how this will make the BBs overpowered.

Furthermore those secondary guns should not have the same "accuracy" that you find on the ships which have them as primary, but the player will lead better than the AI which will result in a better hit ration.

The reason why I wanted this is because would be cool to shoot all the guns that are on the ship and also will give the ships with longer reload a chance against fast moving target( or at least to annoy them). 

I dont see how those changes above can make a torp DD like Shima not kill a BB. 

This change can give a change to ships like BBs and BCs to annoy ships like Kleber/ Khaba and maybe the upcoming subs.

 

15 hours ago, Jethro_Grey said:

Besides, if you want player controlled secondaries, play WoWS blitz, they have those. 

Mobile gaming aint for me.

Besides there is already another PC game which supports naval battles and have the option to switch the guns without penalty like this proposed idea, and somehow the DDs don't complain that much.

[Panocek]

9 minutes ago, VanD4rk said:

Besides there is already another PC game which supports naval battles and have the option to switch the guns without penalty like this proposed idea, and somehow the DDs don't complain that much.

Game that is also broken in terms of balance beyond repair and devolved into cycle of powercreep, where either you play flavor of the month or you're farmed by flavor of the month.

 

Also there are no battleships there... yet, so you can't compare few spudguns on a cruiser to proper secondary battery.

[mtm78]

23 minutes ago, VanD4rk said:

Besides there is already another PC game which supports naval battles and have the option to switch the guns without penalty like this proposed idea, and somehow the DDs don't complain that much.

 

Ahh so it is about DD's? People where poinint out BB's are strong enough already, and that this would make them overpowered, but to you it's just 'DD complaining' right?

 

Yeah figures.

 

Anyway, go play that game then? I know why I am NOT playing that game, but maybe it suits you better?

[VanD4rk]

23 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Game that is also broken in terms of balance beyond repair and devolved into cycle of powercreep, where either you play flavor of the month or you're farmed by flavor of the month.

 

Also there are no battleships there... yet, so you can't compare few spudguns on a cruiser to proper secondary battery.

Never said that game was an oasis of balancing to look at, neither is this. Just that it has this feature on all the ships, and still a lot of people play that, even more than this.

But overall this one is better for me. I do not want to get the discussion in that direction because I am not interested.

Still your reply does not say why this feature will make the BBs op.

11 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

Ahh so it is about DD's? People where poinint out BB's are strong enough already, and that this would make them overpowered, but to you it's just 'DD complaining' right?

 

Yeah figures.

 

Anyway, go play that game then? I know why I am NOT playing that game, but maybe it suits you better?

You can go to reddit and complain there about all the imaginary DD problems like all the drama queens. And no, this game does not consist about the DDs all the time.

I simply would like to have the option to rapid fire with abysmal accuracy in the same game when I play BB/BC or maybe the german cruisers. 

Plus this feature was abondoned because WG considered that the average player will not be so capable to control all the weapons... 

[mtm78]

2 minutes ago, VanD4rk said:

You can go to reddit and complain there about all the imaginary DD problems like all the drama queens.

 

How about you go, I like to make actual arguments here thank you 

 

2 minutes ago, VanD4rk said:

And no, this game does not consist about the DDs all the time.

Nor does this game needs to buff BB's more then are already

 

3 minutes ago, VanD4rk said:

I simply would like to have the option to rapid fire with abysmal accuracy in the same game when I play BB/BC or maybe the german cruisers. 

See, it IS about BB's ( ow and perhaps German cruisers... ).

 

3 minutes ago, VanD4rk said:

Plus this feature was abondoned because WG considered that the average player will not be so capable to control all the weapons... 

Yeah weird right, how BB players can't control two sets of weapons and DD's can? Guess which class WG attributes the least ability to...

[VanD4rk]

22 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

How about you go, I like to make actual arguments here thank you 

That place is the pit of doom. 

 

22 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

Nor does this game needs to buff BB's more then are already

Did you read the whole proposal ? 

 

22 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

See, it IS about BB's ( ow and perhaps German cruisers... ).

You can get the option to use the secondary on the Kiev, so why do you complain ?

 

22 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

Yeah weird right, how BB players can't control two sets of weapons and DD's can? Guess which class WG attributes the least ability to...

Well it seem that  BB/BCs are discriminated because they can't use 2 sets of weapons. This has to change.

 

I understand that you dont like the idea, no need to drama about, but I still dont see your point that this will be a direct buff to BBs with the option to introduce a timer for the switch. My estimation is that you maybe get around 20-25 % hit ration with the controlled secs.

[mtm78]

Just now, VanD4rk said:

That place is the pit of doom. 

 

So why ask me to go there  I avoid it as the pest. 

 

1 minute ago, VanD4rk said:

Did you read the whole proposal ? 

Yes.

 

1 minute ago, VanD4rk said:

You can get the option to use the secondary on the Kiev, so why do you complain ?

I already have CQE with Kiev, thank you. But like I said, usually DD's have high enough ROF to not need manual control over secondaries. 

 

3 minutes ago, VanD4rk said:

I understand that you dont like the idea, no need to drama about, but I still dont see your point that this will be a direct buff to BBs with the option to introduce a timer for the switch.

It would be a buff, you want to increase effectiveness of secondaries so in situations where you depend on this increased effectiveness you can easier defend yourself. This is a direct buff.

 

Even when locked out for two main battery reload cycles, some battleships have secondaries consisting of two or more light cruisers strapped to their side. So yes, it sounds to me like a buff.

 

I also don't see a need. Both for manual secondaries IN THIS GAME, as well as making more changes to make BB life easier. 

[VanD4rk]

10 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

It would be a buff, you want to increase effectiveness of secondaries so in situations where you depend on this increased effectiveness you can easier defend yourself. This is a direct buff.

Yes, situation like when the team wants the BBs to push and they usually don't. Everyone is complaining about the passive behaviour of BBs. This might give the ships with low RoF the tools to push, also fun. I don't bet on this to be honest.

But this will come with a choice, you get into a narrow strait and you either choose to shoot that broadside cruiser OR fight the gunship/torp DD ? It will be up to the judgement of the player to choose which one. Base on this I believe it won't be a direct buff.

[mtm78]

BB's low ROF is not what prevents them from pushing. Neither are destroyers, or torpedoes or what ever excuse is used.

 

Why is that my opinion you ask, well let me tell you about this game we played, Tears of the Dessert, Epicenter... 11BB's per team, no DD, one cruiser.

Me, in all chat: great no DD's everyone meet in the middle let's brawl!

 

I die, game was won by points.

 

Either way, maybe, just maybe, the thing to make German BB's more popular, is to give them better secondary dispersion so they get their niche back from the recent USN ships which been added to the game. But I don't think the game needs manual fire control for secondaries. Like I said, I don't think manual secondaries would make people push more, but German BB's getting more out of their secondaries would make those move up more.

 

 

[Cyclops_]

Mmm, my Bismark with secondaries captain skill is a DD killer if they dare get within 10k 

[VanD4rk]

1 hour ago, mtm78 said:

BB's low ROF is not what prevents them from pushing. Neither are destroyers, or torpedoes or what ever excuse is used.

No. BB force stand in high alfa, so the cruisers and other BBs are the main target for them. Also the BB AP nerf makes firing on DDs a waste, but still it must be done.

Since you are and advocate to DD main I bet you know very well what a wall of torp can do to a BB, and it can still get some torps even with WASD. And dont tell to "justdoge" because that is just a hypocritical answer that n00b DDivas dont like to be used on them when we refer to the CV gameplay.

So this is one reason why some BBs are not pushing. Other one might be the current meta of rain of fire or no help from teammates.

I disregard the BBs that never push because they are in a category with the DDs that die in the first 2 mins of battle.

You should make a poll to see why the BBs are not pushing in the randoms.

 

1 hour ago, mtm78 said:

Why is that my opinion you ask, well let me tell you about this game we played, Tears of the Dessert, Epicenter... 11BB's per team, no DD, one cruiser.

Me, in all chat: great no DD's everyone meet in the middle let's brawl!

Regarding this, well its weekend and strange things might happen. You could post the replay because I never had something like a yolo match you state.

And just my explanation is that since there were no DD -> no torps -> chance for a huge brawl in the middle + combination of not coward BBs made it happen. I would love some huge brawls but again -> wall of torp and crap chance to fight against DDs with no support I would be cautious of pushing strait in the point if I want to win.

[mtm78]

30 minutes ago, VanD4rk said:

Regarding this, well its weekend and strange things might happen. You could post the replay because I never had something like a yolo match you state.

And just my explanation is that since there were no DD -> no torps -> chance for a huge brawl in the middle + combination of not coward BBs made it happen. I would love some huge brawls but again -> wall of torp and crap chance to fight against DDs with no support I would be cautious of pushing strait in the point if I want to win.

 

You missed the point. 

 

1 hour ago, mtm78 said:

I die, game was won by points.

 

Points. After 20minutes of BB's hugging islands.

 

31 minutes ago, VanD4rk said:

Since you are and advocate to DD main

 

 

Well yes and no, I actually am a cruiser main, always had been at least. But abundance of battleships made the role I like ( support fire, quick reaction time and so on ) move from cruisers to gunboat destroyers. 

 

34 minutes ago, VanD4rk said:

 I bet you know very well what a wall of torp can do to a BB

Ofc I do. That doesn't mean that battleships should not push it means they need to push smart and make use of their allies. While I will repeat that battleships are the easiest to play, they are very hard to play well. With a destroyer, the initial skill requirement is higher, and the skill ceiling is higher, in between the distribution curve is such that a good DD player has more influence on the game result as a good battleship player. But a good battleship player does not kemp island/bush when it's not needed. 

 

38 minutes ago, VanD4rk said:

and it can still get some torps even with WASD. And dont tell to "justdoge" because that is just a hypocritical answer that n00b DDivas dont like to be used on them when we refer to the CV gameplay.

 

Again, yes and no. A lot of this sentiment is due to bad battleship players, not because of it being not possible to 'not kemp island/bush'. Or, bad destroyers in the team of the battleship which prevent the BB from making informed choices of when and where to push. I do not expect battleship players to push into DD infested waters without 'intelligence data', but that again does not imply battleships CAN NOT push.

 

41 minutes ago, VanD4rk said:

You should make a poll to see why the BBs are not pushing in the randoms.

Yes, but only if the poll is public and only people with public profiles would be allowed to vote. You see, I don't really care what a bad battleship player thinks about the game, other then wishing him to 'git gud'. Bad players might claim it's torpedoes, other bad players claim it's HE spam. And BB mains might say both. But players who played all classes usually aren't that keen on making the claim that battleships atm are in a bad spot.....

 

Even more, BB players also don't care why there are so many DD's, it because of them. Want to lower the amount of people queuing up in destroyers or he spammers, play less battleships. Many like me moved from cruisers to destroyers, or from CA's to CL's which are gud at hugging islands.