German BBs - pls improve aim

[Yamato_sama]

Hello WG!

 

So I just reset german BB line since I stopped enjoying playing the currywurst...

 

I have been playing the game since forever and I really loved the german BBs from tier 7 and up, I actually loved the Gneisenau and Bismarck since I could beat enemies through flanking and the bad aim did not matter at close distance coupled with good secondaries.

 

Today I played tier 7-8 and my god the experience have changed. Please fix the german BBs aim.. Make it so that if you aim correctly, in a really narrow window or something, you get good dispersion. Its mainly the horizontal dispersion that makes me mad as hell. Like a myoko can approach at 13km and close the distance and torp in peace if he has RNG on his side, it is really frustrating!

[SeaWolf7]

1 hour ago, Yamato_sama said:

 It's not historically correct and it is really frustrating!

Well you can forget about the historical par my friend.

 

I know German BB's are not the most accurate of Ships but please remember against other targets such as cruisers and dd's you don't need a lot of accuracy because your rounds are the size of a small  car and just 1/2 can send me back to port in my squishy cruiser. Yay for you bad for me.

so the reason dispersion is the way it is now, is so people do not go running round with impunity with some of the most heavily armoured ships in the game sending out smart car sized shells with laser like precision. 

WG call it balance. I call it biding my time until one of those rounds finds me (you know that stray 1 that's always on target) and sends me back to port.

 

 

 

[Tyrendian89]

30 minutes ago, Yamato_sama said:

It's not historically correct and it is really frustrating!

no, accuracy in this game is not historically correct. If it were, we'd land about two or three hits per game with BBs...

[Yamato_sama]

Damn I wish I did not write that... Focus on the solution I provided pls

[ColonelPete]

WG made it clear that they will not change that,  despite Conway and Crysantos lobbying for german BB.

[Onsterfelijke]

They should tweak it bit more expecially the horizontal sigma which is really bad.

 

Sigma of main guns is 0.8 orso?

[Yamato_sama]

I have been maining cruisers and DDs btw. And I have played a lot of other BBs.... I have like 4.5k games u know... Bismarck with full sec spec burns like a crispy little marshmallow. I know there is stats for taking decisions like this and I know you have a good line of reasoning BUT then there is the game! You have to play the game to understand what I mean. 

 

I know I'm not the only one thinking German BB's, especially high tier, have been a bit power creepd? For me they don't make sense to unlock. 

[ColonelPete]

Bismarck is just the silver BB with the second highest winrate on Tier VIII in the last two months, despite being the most played...

 

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20190921/eu_2month/average_ship.html

 

 

[Tyrendian89]

1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

Bismarck is just the silver BB with the second highest winrate on Tier VIII in the last two months, despite being the most played...

 

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20190921/eu_2month/average_ship.html

 

 

it is? huh... colour me surprised... maybe because she tries her best to force even the bad players to not just snipe (with mixed success obviously, potatoes gonna potate, but at least more than other BBs I would imagine)?

[Yamato_sama]

5 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Bismarck is just the silver BB with the second highest winrate on Tier VIII in the last two months, despite being the most played...

 

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20190921/eu_2month/average_ship.html

 

 

 

Well then its settled 

[SgtTincan]

how about giving german BBs the same accuracy treatment as russian BBs ? that way secondariebuilds would actually make a lot more fun

[Kenjiro_]

1 hour ago, Tyrendian89 said:

no, accuracy in this game is not historically correct. If it were, we'd land about two or three hits per game with BBs...

 

Correct. But the ship in the receiving end couldn't laugh at our overpen from the bottom of the sea 

[Bics93]

27 minuti fa, SgtTincan ha scritto:

how about giving german BBs the same accuracy treatment as russian BBs ? that way secondariebuilds would actually make a lot more fun

 

But what should WG nerf to compensate that buff? Removing hydro and turtleback maybe  

[CrniVrag]

3 hours ago, Tyrendian89 said:

no, accuracy in this game is not historically correct. If it were, we'd land about two or three hits per game with BBs...

So basically historical accuracy is correct just for German BB's 

[Comrad_StaIin]

55 minutes ago, Bics93 said:

 

But what should WG nerf to compensate that buff? Removing hydro and turtleback maybe  

Why would they need a nerf? 

German BBs are one of the worst BBs at its tier. 

Their "turtleback" isn't really saving them from taking huge amounts of dmg. 

It does not need to be compensated by horrendous accuracy. 

Sure they have Hydro but they are so huge and clumsy that it basically just let's you know earlier that you are about to be deleted. 

Besides they also have massive superstructures making the 50mm plating practically useless against HE spammers as they can just farm that

 

 

[Exocet6951]

4 minutes ago, CrniVrag said:

So basically hosrical accuracy is correct just for German BB's 

 

Do you want to talk about 105mm secondaries magically having more range than IJN 140mm, Italian 152mm, and American 127mm secondaries? 

 

On top of turtleback with armor everywhere being outdated irl, but by far the most effective in game? 

 

Or a battleship being able to use hydroacoustics while in the middle of a battle while moving at max speed? 

 

 

Is accuracy not being as overbuffed as other BBs compared to irl really the hill you want to die on? 

[ClappingLollies]

2 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

WG made it clear that they will not change that,  despite Conway and Crysantos lobbying for german BB.

Which is a shame. I really wanna like german BB's but at this point they are just big XP hotdogs. They dont work for me at all. 

[Bics93]

11 minuti fa, Kaseko ha scritto:

Why would they need a nerf? 

 

In the last 2 months Kurfurst averaged more win rate than Yamato and Montana, Der Grosse averaged better than Iowa and Bismarck is the second silver BB ad far as win rate is concerned, increasing their accuracy will make them too powerful compared to other silver BBs... 

[Fat_Maniac]

3 hours ago, Yamato_sama said:

Hello WG!

 

So I just reset german BB line since I stopped enjoying playing the currywurst...

 

I have been playing the game since forever and I really loved the german BBs from tier 7 and up, I actually loved the Gneisenau and Bismarck since I could beat enemies through flanking and the bad aim did not matter at close distance coupled with good secondaries.

 

Today I played tier 7-8 and my god the experience have changed. Please fix the german BBs aim.. Make it so that if you aim correctly, in a really narrow window or something, you get good dispersion. Its mainly the horizontal dispersion that makes me mad as hell. Like a myoko can approach at 13km and close the distance and torp in peace if he has RNG on his side, it is really frustrating!

I had a very similar conversation with a clan mate this morning.

 

The German BB's need some love times have moved on and the game has changed leaving them behind a little.

 

And it's worse for people grinding the line for the first time without a 19pt captain to help along the way.

[CrniVrag]

11 minutes ago, Exocet6951 said:

 

Do you want to talk about 105mm secondaries magically having more range than IJN 140mm, Italian 152mm, and American 127mm secondaries? 

 

On top of turtleback with armor everywhere being outdated irl, but by far the most effective in game? 

 

Or a battleship being able to use hydroacoustics while in the middle of a battle while moving at max speed? 

 

 

Is accuracy not being as overbuffed as other BBs compared to irl really the hill you want to die on? 

In a T10 meta where going to secondary range is suicide those guns make no difference. They are impotent anyway without a full secondary build which includes IFHE, this in turn makes you just a tiny little bit less flammable then you already are with a full tank build and fire prevention, so please....

Turtleback armor means squat at long range where 70% of the battle unfolds because going closer is suicide, on top of that you have shitty turret angles, so 50% of your firepower is meaningless and the other 50% won't hit squat. So you turn to fire all your guns and get plastered by 20+ k AP salvos by everyone because of your huge superstructure which is constantly engulfed in a glorious blazing flame.

Yes hydro, how could I forget about that glorious "get out of jail" consumable that let's you dodge every torpedo in game with your super fast 19.4 rudder shift time in a tier where torp speed is around 70 knots, mea culpa my friend, I am so dumb... 

[Isoruku_Yamamoto]

2 hours ago, Onsterfelijke said:

They should tweak it bit more expecially the horizontal sigma which is really bad.

 

Sigma of main guns is 0.8 orso?

no single ship in WoWS has a difference in horizontal and vertical sigma, only in horizontal and vertical accuracy. 
But yes, the german sigma values are terrible

[Exocet6951]

9 minutes ago, CrniVrag said:

In a T10 meta where going to secondary range is suicide those guns make no difference. They are impotent anyway without a full secondary build which includes IFHE, this in turn makes you just a tiny little bit less flammable then you already are with a full tank build and fire prevention, so please....

Turtleback armor means squat at long range where 70% of the battle unfolds because going closer is suicide, on top of that you have shitty turret angles, so 50% of your firepower is meaningless and the other 50% won't hit squat. So you turn to fire all your guns and get plastered by 20+ k AP salvos by everyone because of your huge superstructure which is constantly engulfed in a glorious blazing flame.

Yes hydro, how could I forget about that glorious "get out of jail" consumable that let's you dodge every torpedo in game with your super fast 19.4 rudder shift time in a tier where torp speed is around 70 knots, mea culpa my friend, I am so dumb... 

 

You played the historical accuracy card, and now you're reasoning in terms of in-game meta? 

 

Pick an argument and stick with it, but don't flip flop. 

 

 

You can't say that Germany is the only one handicapped by historical accuracy, then ignore all the ways where it's not, regardless of how they play out in the game.

[DFens_666]

9 minutes ago, Isoruku_Yamamoto said:

But yes, the german sigma values are terrible

 

Hmm, imo its not that bad actually.

Bayern should be 2nd after QE (only talking silver ships now)

On T7 Nagato/Colorado are best, followed by Gneisenau and KGV

on T8 i think only NC has better sigma.

[ColonelPete]

This thread is full of german bias.

 

When you sort the last two months stats by winrate for silver ships, german BB are:

• Tier X, 2ed of 6 ships
• Tier IX, 4th of 6
• Tier VIII, 2ed of 6
• Tier VII, 3rd of 6
• Tier VI, 2ed of 6
• Tier V, 1st of 6
• Tier IV, 4th of 6 (and that is probably because of low battle count, low Tiers are unstable in the last months)
• Tier III, 4th of 6 (and that is probably because of low battle count, low Tiers are unstable in the last months)

If you cannot make that work, that is your personal problem.

When you ask for improvements, you are ignoring the other nations in favor of german ships. That is called german bias.

[Isoruku_Yamamoto]

1 minute ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Hmm, imo its not that bad actually.

Bayern should be 2nd after QE (only talking silver ships now)

On T7 Nagato/Colorado are best, followed by Gneisenau and KGV

on T8 i think only NC has better sigma.

First off, i'm talking high tier sigma. 

Tier 8-10 germans have 1.8 sigma @ 8 barrels. 
US tier 8: 2.0 x9 barrels
tier 9: 1.9x 9 barrels
tier 10: 1.9x 12 barrels

IJN: 

1.8 x 10
1.8x 9
2.1 x 9

Values may have changed, but that makes the Germans the utmost worst in terms of shell grouping among those, basically irregardless of dispersion. Dispersion has some effect, but it is minor compared to high sigma & barrel count