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CastorTolagi

IJN Battleship and Battlecruiser Tree

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Hello fellow captains.

 

this thread is ported (and improved) from my thread on the german forum (https://forum.worldofwarships.eu/topic/123362-japanische-schlachtschiffe-und-schlachtkreuzer/)

Please excuse any mistakes in grammar or spelling because english is not my native language.

 

 

My goal was to clean up the total mess that is called: "The IJN Battleship tech tree". 

A tree where you happily jump from Battleship to Battlecruiser and back.

 

Therefore these were my goals I wanted to achieve:

  • A new Tech Tree “Battleships”
  • A new Tech Tree “Battlecruisers”
  • All ships stay on their Tiers but move to their respected tree.
  • All ships will be named correctly. That means Battleships will be named after japanese provinces and Battlecruisers will be named after mountains.
  • I will not touch Premium Ships at all.

 

Now for a few rules:

  • Every ship in the new tree should make sense. It should not be straight OP (or too weak) and it should work with the other ships in the tree for a pleasant playthrough.
  • Paperships are allowed
  • Fantasy ships are allowed as long as they make sense and stick to the “IJN way”.
  • Lend Lease, captured or bought ships from other nations are allowed if they make sense.

 

So are you ready? Here we go.

 

Overview:

First let’s take a look how the Tree would look after the redesign without any changes or additions:

Old Tree Battleship Tree Battlecruiser Tree
Kawachi Kawachi  
Myogi   Myogi
Kongo   Kongo
Fuso Fuso  
Nagato Nagato  
Amagi   Amagi
Izumo Izumo  
Yamato Yamato  

 

 

Now let’s take a look at the same Tree but with the new ships added:

Battleship Tree Battlecruiser Tree
Kawachi --------------------------
Tsushima Myogi

Owari

Kongo
Fuso Ontake
Nagato Hotakadake
Tosa Amagi
Izumo Ryokami
Yamato Fuji

 

 

Battleships:

 

T4 Tsushima (Modified Helgoland Class):

Displacement: 24.700t

Speed: 21knt

 

With T4 we need our first new Battleship and we run straight into a problem. The japanese didn’t focus that much on Battleships between Kawachi and Fuso and I couldn’t find much that would fit on Tier 4.

But luckily our forum user Takemikazuchi_1121 came up with a great idea:

According to the Treaty of Versailles it was decided that the german Battleship SMS Oldenburg (a Helgoland Class which is effectively a better Nassau) should be surrender to the japanese. In reality the japanese never wanted the ship and sold it for scraping.

In our alternativ version the IJN kept the ship, integrated it into their fleet and refited it with japanese traits.

That includes a new target system for better dispersion of the guns. The gun range was increased and a catapult was mounted on one of the turrets for a seaplane. So that the ship would work as an upgraded Nassau on T4.

The name of course is in honor of the famous naval battle at the Tsushima strait but it also stays true to the japanese system of Battleships carrying names of provinces.

1665602618_SMSOldenburg(Battleship)(1913).thumb.png.8697ccf824a74e4f43415b1f89e53c92.png


 

T5 Owari (Design A-55)

Displacement: 27.200t

Speed: 23knt

 

At Tier 5 we need another new ship because Kongo will be moved to the Battlecruiser tree.

The replacement is the Shipdesign A-55

This ship looks familiar?

It looks like a Fuso?

You are correct - well sort of. You see this is an early version of Fuso with 305mm guns instead of the 356mm on the “normal” Fuso. It’s also slower with a top speed of only 23 knt and with a displacement of 23.000 tonnes it’s also lighter than Fuso.

wppp-no-jp002.thumb.png.b956f47f483a8aedd146ff0b2609f550.png


 

T8 Tosa 

Displacement: 44.200t

Speed: 27knt

 

Amagi gone - hello Tosa. Both ships are very similar but Tosa is in fact the Battleship version with improved armour but also reduced speed.

jap_bb65.gif.d7fd404f21d0fecd1a21ef9f184c9c58.gif

 

 

And that’s it already for the Battleships.

 

 

Now for Part 2

 

Battlecruisers


T6 Ontake (Design O)

Displacement: 46.000t (less due to ingame changes)

Speed: 37knt

 

So T6. Let’s see what we can use here. How about the Design Projekt O:

What? 18” Guns are stupid on Tier 6?

You are absolutely correct, we can’t use these guns. But how about the idea that the ship was built but japan didn’t have the guns ready yet for this ship (looking at you Scharnhorst class). So lets put smaller guns on it. And there is a very japanese gun that might fit: The 41 cm/45 3rd Year Type.

With only 6 of these guns I think we could make this ship fit on T6. Espacially because with these huge guns and the ludicrous speed of 37knt the armor is pretty much non existent.

It might also be an option to use the crappier shells of Mutsu.

wppp-no-jp001o.thumb.png.bc71c27991bc425f269951b6a9280e03.png

designo.thumb.png.1ec316988cc4aed992cce17fd869b3c6.png

 

T7 Hotakadake (Design Z)

Displacement: 49.500

Speed: 35knt

 

T7 also needs a new ship and here I would use Design Project Z. The ship is armed with 10x16” guns just like Amagi but with a completely different 2x 3+2 turret arrangement. Furthermore that’s a long ship. Amagi was ~250m long. That thing adds 40m for ~290m in length. And the armor is not as good as Amagi. 

It’s still very fast though - perfect for a Battlecruiser

wppp-no-jp001z.thumb.png.db53b0a713e80151104e59d46cbe98e1.png

21540501-001_001.thumb.jpg.544315b590bca8268a22b7554ba6c29b.jpg

 

 

T9 Ryokami (Design I/J)

Displacement: 50.000t (54.000t)

Speed: 30knt

 

Now let’s go crazy. The Izumo is not the best example of good WG ideas. So let me show you my not so well thought through Fan-Fiction moment.

Lets meet Design Projekt I/J - because the Type 13 Design didn’t provide enough crazy ideas yet..

 

I just love the design of that ship.

But I think we need a lot of famous russian balance for that one.

wppp-no-jp001ij.thumb.png.ed1ec166ad0d5744bd51a6f602a53858.png


 

T10 Fuji (Design A-140/J3)

Displacement: 58.400t

Speed: 28knt (maybe with an engine upgrade ~30knt)

 

Last but not least T10

Looks like a Yamato?

Look again. It might be based on the design that later became the biggest Battleship in history but this bugger is no Yamato.

First you might notice that this design has 4 turrets. 

NO! - put your pitchforks away and calm down! These are NOT Yamato guns. They are still only 16” caliber guns and not the 18” monsters of Yamato.

Also its way way way lighter with only 58.000t compared to 72.000t of Yamato.

The idea in fact was to bring a true “small Yamato” as a battlecruiser and not Yoshino as a supercruiser.

yamato-a-140j3.thumb.png.0654d8328e838aa4c62189b0918afe0a.png

31140-7aaaa82a7e096af89c198d147976a0dd.jpg.555d2792d8ce2f31676698e716e96625.jpg

 

 

You tell me if I succeeded because that’s it for my idea of a double japanese Battleship/Battlecruiser line.

 

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I am pretty sure you can find IJN BB designs for Tier IV (A-48?)

BC should go from Tier III to Tier VIII.

Tier VIII is already the fast Battleship era, BC are obsolete past that.

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A-48 is also just an early Fuso - this time with cross fire wing turrets midship. 

I dont think its very interesting to play 3 Tiers the same ship.

 

Zitat

BC should go from Tier III to Tier VIII.

Tier VIII is already the fast Battleship era, BC are obsolete past that.

Historically true - but ingame?

The playstyle of the T9/10 IJN BBs is very static and bow-in focused.

 

My idea with the high tier BCs was to provide an alternative gameplay to Izumo and Yamato.

These BCs are not best when you move (slowly) bow-in but rather you have to use the speed and the full broadside of the ship to be most effective.

But you will show a lot of weakly armored broadside doing so.

And you are still not a Yoshino or Azuma because you have the caliber to punish every Ship that comes to close

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44 minutes ago, CastorTolagi said:

A-48 is also just an early Fuso - this time with cross fire wing turrets midship. 

I dont think its very interesting to play 3 Tiers the same ship.

They are different ships.

As long as the pagoda style superstructure is not available for the Tier IV, she would look very different.

The 305mm guns and slower speed are a good fit for Tier IV.

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But you saw my T5?!

What is the point of moving from this:

battleship_design_a_48_by_tzoli-d6oyttg.png.f7f8353d3ae18e55aeb269e7a039814d.png

 

To this:

battleship_design_a_55_by_tzoli-d6puewj.png.bf7267dbbdfc53d82e4c91ccc82dc4db.png

 

Just to end up at this:

Fuso1944-nowatermark.thumb.png.b9f7f6073d0d3bbd21e847f3e295ce78.png

 

I totaly agree that a small caliber Fuso might work - that is why I have one on T5.

But I just dont get it why we need a Fuso on three tiers.

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Alpha Tester
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There was a design between Kawachi / Settsu and A-46 (Fuso preliminary)

A 23.300ton design from 1907/08:
167,64(pp) x 173,74(wl) x 26,21 x 8,53m

23.300tons standard

28.000shp 4 shafts Steam Turbines 39km/h

7x2 30cm/45 Cannons

16x1 15cm/45 Guns

8x1 76mm/40

5x1 457mm Underwater torpedo tubes

279mm Belt, 44mm Slopes, 25mm Deck 

Basically an enlarged Kawachi with a superfiring pair of turrets forward with the rest the same.

https://iiif.dl.itc.u-tokyo.ac.jp/repo/s/hiraga/document/61b73f5a-9012-4577-903d-fe87157e256d#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=0&xywh=-659%2C0%2C8261%2C4927

 

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Vor 9 Stunden, Pikkozoikum sagte:

The Battlecrusiers will be marked as BBs or Cruisers (like Yoshino, Alaska etc)?

Like its today. BB's and BC's share the same spot in the MM.

It would make no sense to move them to another spot while we also have a lot of BCs in other nations that are still used in a BB spot.

 

BTW: I'm working on Part 2 and it should be done very soon (TM)

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