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Jessa_Doom

Is Detection and firing ranges broken.

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Hello WG & All.

 

Is detection broken or are smokescreens and islands see through.

 

Don't get me wrong here it just that when i get behind an island/smoke or in smoke, i find detected even though i've not fired a shot or in range of the nearest enemy ship and this is worse with the bot ships in scenarios/co-op battles and with the last two patch updates.

 

With no radar or any DD in a battle either sunk or battle MM i still have a detection issue unlike i see in CC videos in the worst detection ships possible and as i see them go behind an island or go behind or in smoke they go undetected, and only detected if fire their gun or a radar is activated but when i play i'm detected within a few KM of the battles start and this was like this two plus years ago, have the dev's gone back in time or totally screwed up detection.

 

Also in any battle how is it the most DD's get within 3-4 km. before getting detected and that open water at best about 5.5 km. with all nods added, i'm also annoyed that i'm in a ship say with 10 km detection range and detected beyond the 10 km. and again no DD or radar yet i can detect the ship spotting me till it's within it's own detect range or lower and then i know it's got a higher detection than the 10 km. i have thus i should have spotted before i get spotted.

 

With all this i get pounded with fire while being detected even though i'm outside ranges, behind islands, and smoke etc. even well outside any enemy fire range even more so with the bot ships.

 

With the gun fire ranges i have seen a few post on this that a lot of players like me are now seeing their shell fall short well inside the fire range i.e. guns fire at 16 km. cant reach 11-15 km. these issues have got worse since 0.7.8 - 0,8.0.  

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3 minutes ago, Jessa_Doom said:

i'm also annoyed that i'm in a ship say with 10 km detection range and detected beyond the 10 km.

 

When you shoot, your shooting range becomes your detection range. The ships concealment doesnt matter then and for the upcoming 20 sec. Unless you are able to block vision to anything spotting you during those 20 sec.

 

5 minutes ago, Jessa_Doom said:

i.e. guns fire at 16 km. cant reach 11 [...] km.

 

Sounds kinda far fetched. replay?

 

6 minutes ago, Jessa_Doom said:

Also in any battle how is it the most DD's get within 3-4 km. before getting detected

 

Same. Thats not possible unless you sit in your smoke screen. ofc you will not spot them then earlier. Replay?

 

6 minutes ago, Jessa_Doom said:

Don't get me wrong here it just that when i get behind an island/smoke or in smoke, i find detected even though i've not fired a shot or in range of the nearest enemy ship and this is worse with the bot ships in scenarios/co-op battles and with the last two patch updates.

 

With no radar or any DD in a battle either sunk or battle MM i still have a detection issue unlike i see in CC videos in the worst detection ships possible and as i see them go behind an island or go behind or in smoke they go undetected, and only detected if fire their gun or a radar is activated but when i play i'm detected within a few KM of the battles start and this was like this two plus years ago, have the dev's gone back in time or totally screwed up detection.

 

Not sure what you are talking about. Also, impossible to make a statement without any concrete information. And before you explain with words: post a replay.

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44 minutes ago, kapnobathrac said:

It happened to me a few times where I aimed at the water line and the shells fall short by a large margin (large that RNG cannot be invoked)

 

Did you lose the lock on target?

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5 hours ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

When you shoot, your shooting range becomes your detection range. The ships concealment doesnt matter then and for the upcoming 20 sec. Unless you are able to block vision to anything spotting you during those 20 sec.

 

 

Sounds kinda far fetched. replay?

 

 

Same. Thats not possible unless you sit in your smoke screen. ofc you will not spot them then earlier. Replay?

 

 

Not sure what you are talking about. Also, impossible to make a statement without any concrete information. And before you explain with words: post a replay.

Well i know you did not read my post clearly enough when i say i'm behind an island i should not be seen or detected but i am even if i'm in a DD with a 5 km. detect range and not firing i'm spotted by ship well outside the 5 km. range.

 

I do know all about when firing guns i get detected at full range and the timer before i go undetected,  but what i see in CC videos they fire behind an island without detection, but i get detected without firing at ranges outside my ships range no planes, no DD's, and no Radar.  

 

When i play in co-op i see an enemy bot ship go in smoke it goes undetected even if they fire, when i go in smoke i'm detected all the time and again i'm not firing and thus the enemy fire is intensive and non stop.  

 

As for firing ranges play the scenario Killer Whale after the first two forts on the left are dealt with and the next one inside the bay on right, you then get two more further back, knowing your ships gun range as you get inside the extreme limit of your range try to hit the fort on the right then you will see the range drop, like i said say gun range of 16 km. fort at 15.5 km. shell drop 13-14 km. at this point even the guns don't elevate/aiming reticle to the 16 km., no matter what ship i play this happen at that fort as well in all battles at some point shell range drop happens. (Sorry no replays for some reason they don't replay haven't done so since 0.0.6 plus patch (yes i tried everything))

 

Have you fired at a ship that is going behind an island but as it goes unseen still knowing you shots should still hit it, but now barely reach the island let alone go over, and read the threads on this i'm not the only one having detection/firing range shell drop issues.  

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Still no replay....

As I said, you are missing something obvious like assured detection or hydro or radar or whatever...

But speculating does not help you.

And yes, there are other people missing the obvious. That is a thing here in the game...

 

@Forts

The problem is obvious. You have a range of 16km at sea level. When you aim at a target above sea level at maximum range, you would have to shoot farther than your max range, which is not possible.

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9 hours ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

 

Did you lose the lock on target?

Hard to say but it might be the case. I think ships were “on top of each other “ if you look at the horizon and it might have targeted the one “under” while I aimed for the one “above” . Unsure 

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No reply no proof. If you have reply post here and we can tell you something else. Sometimes we can see what you missed.

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The general player in WoWS, heck, the general player in any videogame misses details all the time. You can watch Let's Plays, game streams, reviews, whatever you like, and you'll find that the majority of people miss clues, hints, or forget presented information from a few minutes ago on the regular. At the same time, you find skilled players showcase nearly clairvoyant prediction of where someone will appear, or they hit shots into smoke with regularity.

The difference is how much of an image one process, how your brain is wired to memorize and highlight details, and how well your pattern prediction works. It separates great from average players. It's not a difference in ship choice, ship captain, ping... it's about processing and retaining information. Problem just is... we like to think we're good at what we do, like a stubborn monkey that can't let go of the coconut that got us stuck in the palm tree.

Reality is, a lot of us aren't that good.

Gonna need a replay, or all this is null and void, bud. Your perception is flawed, your processing is flawed, and your recollection of events is flawed. Same with everyone's account of events. We'll need source material, otherwise you can stop posting, because we're not discussing reality, but a thrice-flawed incomplete set of data with the biggest factor of inaccuracy also being the judge on validity.

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7 hours ago, Jessa_Doom said:

 

Have you fired at a ship that is going behind an island but as it goes unseen still knowing you shots should still hit it, but now barely reach the island let alone go over,

 

Because if you have a lock-on, the game knows that you want to shoot the ship - not the island, even if your marker is actually on the island. If the ship gets unspotted and you shoot afterwards, you most likely lost the lock-on already and thus shoot the island because your marker is actually on the island.

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8 hours ago, Jessa_Doom said:

I do know all about when firing guns

 

obviously not, else you would not write the following things:

 

8 hours ago, Jessa_Doom said:

As for firing ranges play the scenario Killer Whale after the first two forts on the left are dealt with and the next one inside the bay on right, you then get two more further back, knowing your ships gun range as you get inside the extreme limit of your range try to hit the fort on the right then you will see the range drop, like i said say gun range of 16 km. fort at 15.5 km. shell drop 13-14 km. at this point even the guns don't elevate/aiming reticle to the 16 km., no matter what ship i play this happen at that fort as well in all battles at some point shell range drop happens.

 

8 hours ago, Jessa_Doom said:

Have you fired at a ship that is going behind an island but as it goes unseen still knowing you shots should still hit it, but now barely reach the island let alone go over, and read the threads on this i'm not the only one having detection/firing range shell drop issues.  

 

Also:

 

8 hours ago, Jessa_Doom said:

(Sorry no replays for some reason they don't replay haven't done so since 0.0.6 plus patch (yes i tried everything)) 

 

So you cant back up your claims. Either you miss things, want to rant or dont understand spotting mechanics fully.

 

Enjoy.

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

Still no replay....

As I said, you are missing something obvious like assured detection or hydro or radar or whatever...

But speculating does not help you.

And yes, there are other people missing the obvious. That is a thing here in the game...

 

@Forts

The problem is obvious. You have a range of 16km at sea level. When you aim at a target above sea level at maximum range, you would have to shoot farther than your max range, which is not possible.

PLAY THE F-ING GAME THEN YOU'LL SEE FOR YOUR SELF ON THE FORTS 

 

DO ANY OF YOU EVER READ WHAT IN A POST.

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3 minutes ago, Jessa_Doom said:

PLAY THE F-ING GAME THEN YOU'LL SEE FOR YOUR SELF ON THE FORTS 

 

DO ANY OF YOU EVER READ WHAT IN A POST.

 

How was that not to understand... If the fort is not sitting on waterlevel, and your range is 16km THEN YOU CANT HIT IT FROM 16km!!!

Because if you would aim higher, then you could shoot further than 16km :fish_palm:

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What is wrong with the forums these days? All those topics where people look for help are just rants and they dont give 5 cents about the answers, all they look for is confirmation for their obvious wrong observations? I think we need a mod here - this makes no sense anymore...I could tell you now, how wrong your behavouir is (on top of your claims/observations) but ill let @Excavatus handle this from here..

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1 hour ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Because if you have a lock-on, the game knows that you want to shoot the ship - not the island, even if your marker is actually on the island. If the ship gets unspotted and you shoot afterwards, you most likely lost the lock-on already and thus shoot the island because your marker is actually on the island.

This issues never accrued before patch update 0.0.6 and now has a lot of players confused as to why, i've on many a play before 0.0.6 able to shot ships at extreme range that goes behind an island and after not even able to shot the island even though i readjust my aim to fire blind. 

 

Even if firing blind the shells should go where you fire them over islands or not so lock on have no effect in this case.    

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Vor 4 Minuten, Jessa_Doom sagte:

This issues never accrued before patch update 0.0.6 and now has a lot of players confused as to why, i've on many a play before 0.0.6 able to shot ships at extreme range that goes behind an island and after not even able to shot the island even though i readjust my aim to fire blind. 

 

Even if firing blind the shells should go where you fire them over islands or not so lock on have no effect in this case.    

As mentioned several times a replay would be a good basis for a discussion. Even screenshots could help. Since the described situations seem impossible to be as the friendly answers suggest.

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22 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

How was that not to understand... If the fort is not sitting on waterlevel, and your range is 16km THEN YOU CANT HIT IT FROM 16km!!!

Because if you would aim higher, then you could shoot further than 16km :fish_palm:

 

Is the shell trajectory capped in WoWS at maximum range? I came across a similar discussion on the WoT forums and in WoT apparently the shells can actually exceed the stated maximum range though I guess it works differently in WoT because of the maximum rendering range is in effect.

 

Assuming the range is capped, what exactly happens? Is it ballistically realistic in the sense that the trajectory falls closer to the maximum range or does it drop down in cartoon style or something?

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12 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

What is wrong with the forums these days? All those topics where people look for help are just rants and they dont give 5 cents about the answers, all they look for is confirmation for their obvious wrong observations? I think we need a mod here - this makes no sense anymore...I could tell you now, how wrong your behavouir is (on top of your claims/observations) but ill let @Excavatus handle this from here..

Sounds right mate, but i know what is happening and that's what i have asked and on reading others who are having the same issues. only get a lot of negative rants.

 

It's clear that the minority of the readers have not read correctly or completely miss parts of the posts, like i keep saying i am unable to post replay as they don't work for some reason since 0.0.5-0.0.6 patches but this statement goes over everyone's head.

 

Other players that have posted the same issues never get asked for replays so why me when i say i have a replay issue.

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13 minutes ago, Donar79 said:

As mentioned several times a replay would be a good basis for a discussion. Even screenshots could help. Since the described situations seem impossible to be as the friendly answers suggest.

Another one who have not read all i have said. 

 

MY REPLAYS SYSTEM IS BROKEN.

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3 minutes ago, Jessa_Doom said:

Other players that have posted the same issues never get asked for replays so why me when i say i have a replay issue.

Dunno how frequently you visit the forums but whenever someone comes up with a claim peeps almost always ask for a replay.

 

I just wish there wasn't a 30 game replay limit on replays, because i lost some replays due to me forgetting to carry them over to my replay folder which were actually pretty gud replays in themselves.

 

But then they did break the sound system with their 'new' and 'improved' sound system.

 

Oh well.

 

I would get wargaming to help you with your replay dilema (not that they will be much help but its better than nothing).

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3 minutes ago, Jessa_Doom said:

Other players that have posted the same issues never get asked for replays so why me when i say i have a replay issue.

I see no other players with similar issues.

 

9 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

Assuming the range is capped, what exactly happens? Is it ballistically realistic in the sense that the trajectory falls closer to the maximum range or does it drop down in cartoon style or something?

The barrels cannot be elevated higher. The shooting distance is the balistic limit.

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12 minutes ago, Karasu_Hidesuke said:

Is the shell trajectory capped in WoWS at maximum range? I came across a similar discussion on the WoT forums and in WoT apparently the shells can actually exceed the stated maximum range though I guess it works differently in WoT because of the maximum rendering range is in effect.

 

Assuming the range is capped, what exactly happens? Is it ballistically realistic in the sense that the trajectory falls closer to the maximum range or does it drop down in cartoon style or something?

 

Well, its obviously only an issue with targets sitting above the waterline... which basicly only are forts in Operations at this point.

image.png.013e3a56e5c385c877668cd3e5f1248a.png

I think this shows what i mean. If you can shoot at 16km waterline level, and you want to hit a target ABOVE the waterline, your shells would travel 1-2km further than possible.

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6 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

I see no other players with similar issues.

 

The barrels cannot be elevated higher. The shooting distance is the balistic limit.

 

3 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Well, its obviously only an issue with targets sitting above the waterline... which basicly only are forts in Operations at this point.

image.png.013e3a56e5c385c877668cd3e5f1248a.png

I think this shows what i mean. If you can shoot at 16km waterline level, and you want to hit a target ABOVE the waterline, your shells would travel 1-2km further than possible.

 

In other words, the maximum range is where the shell will hit water? I assume the mechanics are somewhat simplified because the maximum range indicator is fixed and does not change depending on elevation.

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