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LordTareq

Toxicity against carriers

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I’ve noticed there is a lot of toxicity against carriers in game. While my Bismarck is my favorite ship even though I don’t do too well with it, I alternate with my japanese carriers. But there is quite a lot of vocal anger in chat directed against me, either by enemy players or even by my own team. Last week took the cake during a match. In chat came up the message I damaged another ship/got damaged by another ship, and this kept on going.

When I returned to my carrier I saw I was continuously being rammed by a friendly destroyer, and when I asked him to stop I got called some diseases by this player. He kept ramming my ship for the entire match, when the match ended he had like 50 health left...

I don’t really get this anger, as while sure, attention from the enemy carrier can be annoying, it’s imho not more so than a kiting cruiser spamming HE or an invisible destroyer launching waves of torpedoes and spamming smoke every time you finally spot him.

 

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"Annoying" has a wide spread.

I am playing the french dd's at the moment, to be exact the fantastique. Had 2 Matches this weekend in which I was the only DD and both were carrier games.

Both CV's knew their job so they wanted to kill me. The AA on french DD's is nonexisting so you are running away for the next 25 min and look for aa cover.

Everytime you sneak away the cv will look for you.

It doesn't matter that i kept him busy, it's just not fun.

 

Played a few cv matches myself this weekend and could hear the dd's anger.... If you are doing it right you are killing or negating the other dd's until none is left.

I know I know "adapt" your playstyle etc. but it's just not fun

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12 minutes ago, LordTareq said:

I’ve noticed there is a lot of toxicity against carriers in game. While my Bismarck is my favorite ship even though I don’t do too well with it, I alternate with my japanese carriers. But there is quite a lot of vocal anger in chat directed against me, either by enemy players or even by my own team. Last week took the cake during a match. In chat came up the message I damaged another ship/got damaged by another ship, and this kept on going.

When I returned to my carrier I saw I was continuously being rammed by a friendly destroyer, and when I asked him to stop I got called some diseases by this player. He kept ramming my ship for the entire match, when the match ended he had like 50 health left...

I don’t really get this anger, as while sure, attention from the enemy carrier can be annoying, it’s imho not more so than a kiting cruiser spamming HE or an invisible destroyer launching waves of torpedoes and spamming smoke every time you finally spot him.

 

perhaps you are just too good ...

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3 minutes ago, Seraphiem said:

"Annoying" has a wide spread.

I am playing the french dd's at the moment, to be exact the fantastique. Had 2 Matches this weekend in which I was the only DD and both were carrier games.

Both CV's knew their job so they wanted to kill me. The AA on french DD's is nonexisting so you are running away for the next 25 min and look for aa cover.

Everytime you sneak away the cv will look for you.

It doesn't matter that i kept him busy, it's just not fun.

 

Played a few cv matches myself this weekend and could hear the dd's anger.... If you are doing it right you are killing or negating the other dd's until none is left.

I know I know "adapt" your playstyle etc. but it's just not fun

If the cv's are good and above players your f'ed either way since if they want you dead they will kill you no matter what. (experience both sides of this).

 

Only thing you can do is hope the enemy carrier is shite and gets bored otherwise it won't be a good match regardless (or your team wins before you die).

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2 minutes ago, Seraphiem said:

"Annoying" has a wide spread.

I am playing the french dd's at the moment, to be exact the fantastique. Had 2 Matches this weekend in which I were the only DD and both were carrier games.

Both CV's knew their job so they wanted to kill me. The AA on french DD's is nonexisting so you are running away for the next 25 min and look for aa cover.

Everytime you sneak away the cv will look for you.

It doesn't matter that i kept him busy, it's just not fun.

 

Played a few cv matches myself this weekend and could hear the dd's anger.... If you are doing it right you are killing or negating the other dd's until none is left.

I know I know "adapt" your playstyle etc. but it's just not fun

That sort of MM is harsh. And when I’m in a DD in that situation I either keep a low profile or go ham on an extreme flank and make the CV work hard for the kill and waste time on me.

 

When I’m in a CV and there is only 1 DD, especially a French one with no smoke I’d actually ignore you and take the cruisers or BB’s down first. Then hunt you late game. 

 

Either way its unfun. 

 

As for toxicity. Yeah, it’s there though not nearly as bad as other games. I’ve actualky seen my karma rise playing CV’s, mainly coz I’m either able to carry a game or work entire flanks so my team can push or defend the other. 

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16 minutes ago, LordTareq said:

I don’t really get this anger, as while sure, attention from the enemy carrier can be annoying, it’s imho not more so than a kiting cruiser spamming HE or an invisible destroyer launching waves of torpedoes and spamming smoke every time you finally spot him. 

 

A halfway decent played CV (not even talking about the best players in that class) will pretty much destroy the game of a DD. Especially when you are the only DD in that game (as @Seraphiem described above). Also, CVs are the direct counter to the primary jobs of a DD, which are playing for the objective and spotting. A CV can completly shut you down from capping and make you hide, so that you cant even spot. Again, this is what average players do with a CV - the best will straight out kill a normal DD player in the first 2 attacks max. Not justifiying how some people behave, but I can see from where this is coming.

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Considering i am loosing 10-15 karma every time i play a cv for the day i think they are extremely hated.

 

Worst part is im never sure if im getting reported by my own team or the enemy lel.

 

In the end i dont care and still play my cv hahaha

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15 minutes ago, LordTareq said:

I don’t really get this anger, as while sure, attention from the enemy carrier can be annoying, it’s imho not more so than a kiting cruiser spamming HE or an invisible destroyer launching waves of torpedoes and spamming smoke every time you finally spot him.

Other ship classes can be countered in one way or another, CVs can't. So while I don't think its ok to bully someone in chat I can certainly understand how frustrating it can be to be focused down entire match by CV without the ability to do anything against it. I've used some strong words against CV players in the past, certainly not proud of it. It's just built up frustration as CV uses me as a free dmg pinata.

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18 minutes ago, LordTareq said:

I’ve noticed there is a lot of toxicity against carriers in game. While my Bismarck is my favorite ship even though I don’t do too well with it, I alternate with my japanese carriers. But there is quite a lot of vocal anger in chat directed against me, either by enemy players or even by my own team. Last week took the cake during a match. In chat came up the message I damaged another ship/got damaged by another ship, and this kept on going.

When I returned to my carrier I saw I was continuously being rammed by a friendly destroyer, and when I asked him to stop I got called some diseases by this player. He kept ramming my ship for the entire match, when the match ended he had like 50 health left...

I don’t really get this anger, as while sure, attention from the enemy carrier can be annoying, it’s imho not more so than a kiting cruiser spamming HE or an invisible destroyer launching waves of torpedoes and spamming smoke every time you finally spot him.

 

I'm afraid as has already been said, WG's fault.

 

The CV rework was promised last year never happened, comes along finally and the RTS style is replaced, with a nice concept that I thought showed promise. Fighters are next to useless, AA and CV's weren't balanced and the whole lot was thrown over the fence to the live environment, to test and balance in 'real game situations'.

 

I don't hate CV's They are historically my favorite ship class of the modern era.

 

About the only thing the CV rework has achieved so far is to make most of the player base hate the implementation.

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19 minutes ago, Bear_Necessities said:

Either way its unfun. 

And herein lies the problem, WG think that if you balance CV so that they do xyz damage to other ships then that's fine, but they've given no thought whatsoever to the actual in-game experience for other players.

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Ship players want to fight other ships and don't enjoy getting farmed by plane spam from that parasitic class with its untouchable hull...what a surprise:Smile_great:

 

Not that RTS was much better in that sense but at least the anti air was somewhat doing its job.

 

The toxicity against the cv-players on the other hand is stupid ofc. They're just sadists trying to harrass the playerbase, you can't blame them for doing that:Smile-_tongue:

 

 

 

 

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44 minutes ago, LordTareq said:

I’ve noticed there is a lot of toxicity against carriers in game. While my Bismarck is my favorite ship even though I don’t do too well with it, I alternate with my japanese carriers. But there is quite a lot of vocal anger in chat directed against me, either by enemy players or even by my own team. Last week took the cake during a match. In chat came up the message I damaged another ship/got damaged by another ship, and this kept on going.

When I returned to my carrier I saw I was continuously being rammed by a friendly destroyer, and when I asked him to stop I got called some diseases by this player. He kept ramming my ship for the entire match, when the match ended he had like 50 health left...

I don’t really get this anger, as while sure, attention from the enemy carrier can be annoying, it’s imho not more so than a kiting cruiser spamming HE or an invisible destroyer launching waves of torpedoes and spamming smoke every time you finally spot him.

 

Will get better once Submarines are in the game

and perhaps a new ship class or new weapon system may get added in 2021.

New things will come, there is always content pressure from other games.

Someday there is so much stuff in the game that everything gets a portion of the toxic slice.

In the beginning of this game the torpedo users received the toxic stuff.

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It's all been said already, there is no counter play to a hiding, non capping bote, that constantly send out streams of planes that dominate and commands the battle field, and because of WG's "we'll let some planes get thru and they can have at least 2 attack runs" attitude it really does tick everyone else off, the RAF sent a lot planes after Tirpitz and only Lanc's with Tall Boys got her in the end,in game T6 planes get thru her AA screen and drop bombs that do more damage than getting citadelled by a T10 BB.

 

Spotting DD's etc, which the cv SHOULD only see, but not everyone else does, Cv's kill the game dead, these days only Russian Ships have anywhere near the amount of kills Cv's do, have 4 in one battle and if they are good you'll only have 4 ships left at the end,all Cv's hiding at each end of the map, they kill the game.

 

Having played RTS and world of warplanes 2, I really enjoyed the RTS mode, it was more of a managerial type game, fighters could provide cap and spotting (mine were often over the forward element), and torp bombers could be devastating, criss crossing attacks, I've said it a million times, but all WG had to do to make CV's more appealing was increase sqn size (it WAS pathetic how many planes you got), and allow the player to pick their load out, I hated DB's so I'd have gone for fighter and Torp Bombers.

 

Instead we still have a rework that isn't balanced, CV's still dominate the game, look at lower tiers, which because of the new research system has seen many pro's with 19 point skippers go into cv's and have fun against BB's with zero to very little AA.    It's like ;what can we do to screw it up even more ?.

 

Subs; ROFL.

 

The answer buy A high tier paper premium Russian CV, for only £110 with lots of nice extra's ;-).

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

And herein lies the problem, WG think that if you balance CV so that they do xyz damage to other ships then that's fine, but they've given no thought whatsoever to the actual in-game experience for other players.

Especially since AA has been nerfed to almost pointlessness for ships that were dedicated AA ships.

 

GG WG, GG.

 

The beancounters seem to have taken over from those that care about the game and that is sad.

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34 minutes ago, MadBadDave said:

non capping bote

 

You’d think that. But the amount of games I have to secure a cap as a CV is quite astounding 😂

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15 minutes ago, Bear_Necessities said:

You’d think that. But the amount of games I have to secure a cap as a CV is quite astounding 😂

In fairness REALLY GOOD cv's do cap and follow the fleet around the map, but you have to admit they are in the minority, most rush to go behind the furthest island or into the furthest reaches of the map.     And quite often when there are 4 carriers they usually have most of the kills and are usually the last ones left.

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1 hour ago, LordTareq said:

 

I don’t really get this anger, as while sure, attention from the enemy carrier can be annoying, it’s imho not more so than a kiting cruiser spamming HE or an invisible destroyer launching waves of torpedoes and spamming smoke every time you finally spot him.

 

unfortunately you just described a sizeable part of the demographic of this forum , expect insults ;)

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1 hour ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Difference is, there is counterplay against those ships.

There is literally no counterplay against CVs. You can only hope, that he doesnt target you. You can shoot a kiting Cruiser. You can dodge torps simply by changing your course and the DD needs to be in range to torp you in the first place. The Cruiser is risking his ship, the DD is risking his ship by getting spotted by other DDs, Radar or planes.... CV hull doesnt need to be anywhere near the battle and can still strike any target at will.

 

Blame WG for the hate tho, after rework it got 10times worse :cap_tea:

Not only that, but each class is countered by another class, cruisers by BBs, BBs by DDs, and DDs by cruisers.

Carriers have no counter.

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39 minutes ago, Padds01 said:

unfortunately you just described a sizeable part of the demographic of this forum , expect insults ;)

 

- is post #18

- previous posts all in a civil tone

Need I say more?

 

To OP: Just embrace it. WG wants you to be an egoistical damage farmer that doesn't care about the team, so be one.

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70% of the games I lose but I could have won if only... is because of the crucial discrepancy between cv players. 

One team gets a 'good' cv, the other gets... well there some categories here but someone not 'good'.  Not a villain or a bad person, just it is what it is.

Since I regularly get those in the learning phase the results are predictable. This is common knowledge. You have a better cv, game will run smoothly EVEN if you potato a bit. They influence games too much and too early. Spotting, strategy etc. (A good cv player will hunt me down in a dd from the get go. If I'm allowed to escape (and any other dd player) those crucial first five mins then my team has advantage. Will try to dislodge me from the position I claimed in another ship. IF he doesn't, I know the game is winnable and that is a powerful incentive for the average player.) 

 

This is where the toxicity comes from I think. If both teams have evenly competent (or incompetent) cvs no ones gives a f in my games (or I don't). Its when you get the short end of the stick that tempers flare. (This is not random. If the MM cant stop yr winning streak another way, get ready for the unicum CVs to appear.)

Then yes I have reported the culprits.

Its a healthy reaction since no one ever backed down from reporting me in turn, when I make stupid mistakes (rare but happens) or when I explode in chat (very common, happens in more than half my games - the rest i'm usually chat-banned or intoxicated to the point i don't bother.)

 

You lose me a game, you get reported.

(You will also get reported if I remember you being toxic from previous game, or if you sail a specific category of ships than can do one thing great (depends on meta) and you are not using it to his strengths cuz you are weird or idk.)

You don't, you get upvote.

(You will get upvote also if I like your name, ship or you do something funny or heroic (for no result). You will get upvote if you are a noob trying his best and failing. Or if you are polite and helpful in chat.)

It's not like you shoot them, its harmless and it helps a lot.  

 

 

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While I agree counterplay is a bit weird with carriers, in my experience there is usually counterplay possible. Tier IV carriers are unbalanced I completely agree,  with almost no counterplay possible due to lack of AA and poor manueverability.

But the higher the tier the better ships can deal with squadrons. The carrier itself may be difficult to harm but at tier 8+ which I’m currently at the squadrons are definitely not. Many ships are pretty much immune to airstrikes or you can launch maybe 1 attack and loose your entire squadron in the process. Even destroyers at tier IX+ have around 30k health and plenty of smoke/maneuverability to give carriers trouble hunting them down, and some have quite potent AA. When I’m in a tier 10 match with my carrier and can pretty much only scout until the end of the match I feel just as useless as a tier 6 destroyer feels vs a tier 8 carrier.

Edit: I understand scouting isn’t useless, but its not much fun flying around only trying to evade everybody’s AA zones.

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1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

To OP: Just embrace it. WG wants you to be an egoistical damage farmer that doesn't care about the team, so be one.

Spoiler

 

:Smile_trollface:

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3 hours ago, Rick_Hunter said:

Ship players want to fight other ships and don't enjoy getting farmed by plane spam from that parasitic class with its untouchable hull...what a surprise:Smile_great:

 

I don't consider myself a carrier player, even though I have a much higher winrate playing them than any other ship. Admittedly I do focus on detecting/destroying destroyers. However I prefer playing battleships. And I too get a little annoyed when a tier X carrier focuses on me and does significant damage in the first 5 minutes of the match. But I've adapted by slotting the fighters consumable, I've learned to start turning into torpedobombers the moment I detect them closing on me, and I accept that a carrier 2 tiers higher is a serious threat, but really so is a tier X Yamato or even a tier X cruiser even though I'm supposed to counter them. I do also enjoy playing my carrier as its such a nice support class, but honestly I'm much rather with my Bismarck in a tier X match than with my carrier.

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51 minutes ago, LordTareq said:

Many ships are pretty much immune to airstrikes

 

There are no such ships.

Due to the very nature of reworked CVs any kind of counterplay that works is a misplay on part of the CV player, not an outplay on part of the surface ship.

Thus if you cannot strike something in a CV it just means you're a bad CV player, not that the enemy surface ship has outplayed or countered you.

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