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SeaWolf7

Damage saturation. Is it Balance or BB BS?

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        cvrBpq3.jpg

 

 

 

       4Xocna3.jpg

 

 

 

       ygQFDpr.jpg

       Still alive....

 

Damage saturation. Why was this implemented into wows?

Yes I know how the mechanics work and hp loss to a particular area of ship can only take so much for saturation kicks in but.....This game is getting so far from reality that's its now bordering on science fiction....Nothing should survive 6 direct topedo strikes. Nothing.

If you sail side on to 8 torpedo's and do nothing to adjust course ....YOU DESERVE TO PHKING DIE! (or did he not bother because..well damage saturation =free ticket to survivability for BB's with sufficient hp pool)

HOW is this fair to DD play? How much more of a devastating strike do you bloody need.?

 

Had I been on my own I probably would have died the next salvo from the Montana luckily for me I was actually being supported....

 

So my question is this... Is this a fair mechanic to have in the game because if your hit by that many torpedoes in the first place you've done something wrong or was this implemented to pamper to whining BB players who cant be bothered to use the A and D keys but want to sail around the game with impunity and Wg didn't want to loose one of there biggest player base?

 

Ive just started to take an interest in DD play and to be honest...whats the point? Im never one to shy away from a challenge but ffs this class of ship has been shat on from a great height for too long now imo.

 

Is there a better way Wg could balance this equation rather than giving unrealistic get out of jail card mechanics? Don't we learn by our mistakes? Behaviour is supposed to change because of the mistakes we make in life and in a game. But if you keep giving ways out the behaviour wont change.....

 

 

 

 

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npdZWKV.gif
It works both ways.

 

Besides, Lightning torps are rather mediocre in damage and 4 landed on Montana's 37% torpedo belt with two on the bow quickly saturating it, thus living through is almost to be expected. Albeit with severe butthurt

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4 minutes ago, Panocek said:

npdZWKV.gif
It works both ways.

Agreed but to be honest the enemy dd played that well, waited to ambush and got rewarded with a big FU because of ...damage saturation. then got killed himself by someone who should be dead.:Smile_sceptic:

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Just now, SeaWolf7 said:

Agreed but to be honest the enemy dd played that well, waited and got rewarded with a big FU because of ...damage saturation. then got killed himself by someone who should be dead.:Smile_sceptic:

Well, World of Tanks doesn't have such features. Which also means you can kill tank by repeatedly poking holes into commander's hatch:Smile_smile:

 

In WoWs terms, imagine killing BBs from superstructure hits alone. REEE would follow

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Lightning torps are not exactly the strongest torps in the game. There are plenty of ships that can survive six torps from it (~90k damage). Torpedo belts reduce that damage even further.

 

I really see no issue with the situation posted in the OP.

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Most likely damage saturation played no part in the Monty not dieing. Only if you hit the Bow/aft with torps, then you can get saturation (and even that is offset nowadays, as they changed that torps will always do damage there, so what Panocek posted cant happen anymore imo).

If you hit the middle section, the torp deals damage to the citadel, which doesnt get saturated (afaik?, maybe its something like 2x ships HP or something, wows.wiki doesnt work since last couple of days).

 

Yamato can survive a lot of torps because of having the strongest Torpedo reduction. If you hit Yamato bow, you will deal basicly maxdamage with your torp. If you hit the mid section, its like half, so if your torp deals like 16k damage, you will deal something like 8k on Yamato. Try killing one with 6 torps :Smile-_tongue:

 

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1 minute ago, DFens_666 said:

Yamato can survive a lot of torps because of having the strongest Torpedo reduction. If you hit Yamato bow, you will deal basicly maxdamage with your torp. If you hit the mid section, its like half, so if your torp deals like 16k damage, you will deal something like 8k on Yamato. Try killing one with 6 torps :Smile-_tongue:

BB bow and stern can saturate from single hit, with succeeding hits dealing half damage. Once section is "fully saturated", torps deal 10% damage, "overpen" equivalent.

 

That's the gist of it from what I recall

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1 minute ago, Panocek said:

BB bow and stern can saturate from single hit, with succeeding hits dealing half damage. Once section is "fully saturated", torps deal 10% damage, "overpen" equivalent.

  

That's the gist of it from what I recall

 

Yeah, still better than no damage tho :Smile_hiding:

I remember several incidents with Fiji torping a BB bow and dealing 0 damage when they had <4k HP left :cap_old:

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9 minutes ago, Panocek said:

 

 

In WoWs terms, imagine killing BBs from superstructure hits alone. REEE would follow

I have little choice ....I play a lot of RNL cruisers:Smile_trollface: 

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Just now, SeaWolf7 said:

I have little choice ....I play a lot of RNL cruisers:Smile_trollface: 

Overpens ignore damage saturation, which is why BB AP is still prime pick against destroyers, especially FR ones:Smile_smile:

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7 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Yeah, still better than no damage tho :Smile_hiding:

I remember several incidents with Fiji torping a BB bow and dealing 0 damage when they had <4k HP left :cap_old:

see that's my point......no fair BB should be dead. period.

How is this balance?

 

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I've been saved by damage saturation far more often in DDs and cruisers than I have in BBs.

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1 minute ago, SeaWolf7 said:

see that's my point......no fair BB should be dead. period

 

Then you would need to make every torp in the game equal, which would create quite an imbalance. IJN Torps are stronger than others, but have downsides for it. German torps are probably the weakest. Imagine a Z-52 torp suddenly dealing 22k damage instead of its 14k, while having only a bit more than a minute reload :cap_wander:

Not to mention some Cruiser torps which deal like 5-6k damage... they tickle BBs at best.

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15 minutes ago, SeaWolf7 said:

see that's my point......no fair BB should be dead. period

bdd.jpg

 

Actual torpedo calculation is much more complex, but going with "I can count to potato"

 

Montana hp before: 83400

Montana hp after: 9928

Lightning torpedo damage: 15433

Four hit torpedo belt of 37%, so 15433-(15433*0.37)=9722. Times four: 38888

Two hit bow, first full dmg and second saturated, 15433+(15433/2)23149

 

Estimated damage: 38888+23149=62037

Actual damage: 83400-9928=73472

 

:Smile_smile:

 

Did I mention you can't have credible threats to baBBies in this game? On other hand, you have perfect example of working as intended in first pic, where baBBy counters you

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16 minutes ago, Uglesett said:

I've been saved by damage saturation far more often in DDs and cruisers than I have in BBs.

I get your point but that's because you play more DD and cruisers than BB no?

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7 minutes ago, SeaWolf7 said:

I get your point but that's because you play more DD and cruisers than BB no?

More like these ships have much smaller hp per section, thus if you can't evade fishes, get one on bow/stern

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I know this specific example isn't "saturation" but I have to LOL when WG say they want to make this into a big E-Sport when you have RNG, damage saturation, detonations etc :Smile_veryhappy:

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34 minutes ago, SeaWolf7 said:

I get your point but that's because you play more DD and cruisers than BB no?

Not really. I play the three classes fairly evenly, although cruisers have pulled ahead a bit lately since I started the Yamamoto Isoroku campaign.

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Why do people [edited] about mechanics that work? Do you want every HE salvo to do 10k+ damage? japanese cruisers and english battleships will be very happy about it! and same goes for torpedoes do you want every torpedo to do its full damage.. yey 4 torpedoes from shimakaze and you are dead no matter what ship you play! Also have you ever heard about TORPEDO BELT PROTECTION? 

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29 minutes ago, Animalul2012 said:

Why do people [edited] about mechanics that work? Do you want every HE salvo to do 10k+ damage? japanese cruisers and english battleships will be very happy about it! and same goes for torpedoes do you want every torpedo to do its full damage.. yey 4 torpedoes from shimakaze and you are dead no matter what ship you play! Also have you ever heard about TORPEDO BELT PROTECTION? 

Yes, yes I have. and I understand the mechanic. Did you read the questions in OP?

There has to be some element of realism and I feel personally that the game is getting more and more far fetched and in the realms of fantacy. I actually don't want this to happen to the game hence why I asked your opinions. Damage saturation imo is a joke because you get away with what should have been a fair kill from the enemy, or you don't get one yourself even though both sides deserve that kill as it was thought out and executed correctly.

your reward is "nice try but better luck next time" even though you have just landed enough explosive to level a small village the bloody thing still floats or can sail around and do further damage when it should be on the ocean floor.

 

The Idonapolis was sunk by a single torp, The titanic was sunk by a freaking ice burg but 6 torp stikes on a broadside BB regardless of TORPEDO BELT PROTECTION .... COME ON?

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, SeaWolf7 said:

Yes, yes I have. and I understand the mechanic. Did you read the questions in OP?

There has to be some element of realism and I feel personally that the game is getting more and more far fetched and in the realms of fantacy. I actually don't want this to happen to the game hence why I asked your opinions. Damage saturation imo is a joke because you get away with what should have been a fair kill from the enemy, or you don't get one yourself even though both sides deserve that kill as it was thought out and executed correctly.

your reward is "nice try but better luck next time" even though you have just landed enough explosive to level a small village the bloody thing still floats or can sail around and do further damage when it should be on the ocean floor.

 

The Idonapolis was sunk by a single torp, The titanic was sunk by a freaking ice burg but 6 torp stikes on a broadside BB regardless of TORPEDO BELT PROTECTION .... COME ON?

 

 

 

Start using proper, as in IJN high damage torps maybe?

 

Most "one hit kills" during ww2 came from dreaded IJN and their 500kg warhead, compared to +-300kg in other nations fishes

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16 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Start using proper, as in IJN high damage torps maybe?

 

Most "one hit kills" during ww2 came from dreaded IJN and their 500kg warhead, compared to +-300kg in other nations fishes

Agreed but as @Animalul2012 pointed out if say we use Japanese fishes as an example, 4 hits fro a shimakaze your dead....so if other nations torps are weaker then we need to make up the deficit with MORE torps....so how many torps do we need?  6, 8, 12 simultaneous strikes from other nations that's needed in order to sink a BB, at what point does this get ridiculous?

 

 

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Just now, SeaWolf7 said:

Agreed but as @Animalul2012 pointed out if say we use Japanese fishes as an example, 4 hits fro a shimakaze your dead....so if other nations torps are weaker then we need to make up the deficit with MORE torps....so how many torps do we need?  6, 8, 12 simultaneous strikes from other nations that's needed in order to sink a BB, at what point does this get ridiculous?

This is part where you discover flaw of representing "lethality" via numerical "hit points" in games:Smile_smile:

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2 minutes ago, Panocek said:

This is part where you discover flaw of representing "lethality" via numerical "hit points" in games:Smile_smile:

Amen.

 

Guess im trying to reach out for some representation of normality in our games as I feel of late its been going to much in the wrong direction and we have this discussion regularly on historical or fantasy elements within the game.

Seems its slanting on the way of fantasy and picking up speed fast.

 

I mean we already had torps in space ffs......

MyZ6UJG.png

 

 

 

 

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All weapons in this game are exaggerated in terms of number of shots fired and hits scored compared to what's realistic. Correspondingly, they also do less damage.

 

People who clamor for more realism in games tend to be disappointed when they get what they want and realize just how mind-numbingly dull reality actually is.

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