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Sunleader

Hindenburg Floating Citadel ?

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Seriously. With Roon it was really rare to get a Citadel unless it was Plunging Fire.

 

But with Hindenburg nearly Every Salvo of an Enemy BB is a Citadel.

Doesnt even matter if I angle.

Nose = Citadel, 30 Degree off Nose = Citadel, 60 Degree off Nose = Citadel, Broadside = Citadel....

Even my Rear gets Citadelled...

And it doesnt matter if its on High Range or 6km away. Even a Goddamn Cruiser Citadels me from 6km away....

 

How can this Things Armor be so much Worse than the Roon for Heavens Sake ????

Wasnt the Hindenburg Supposed to be Pretty Hard to Citadel ???

 

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1 minute ago, Sunleader said:

Seriously. With Roon it was really rare to get a Citadel unless it was Plunging Fire.

 

But with Hindenburg nearly Every Salvo of an Enemy BB is a Citadel.

Doesnt even matter if I angle.

Nose = Citadel, 30 Degree off Nose = Citadel, 60 Degree off Nose = Citadel, Broadside = Citadel....

Even my Rear gets Citadelled...

And it doesnt matter if its on High Range or 6km away. Even a Goddamn Cruiser Citadels me from 6km away....

 

How can this Things Armor be so much Worse than the Roon for Heavens Sake ????

Wasnt the Hindenburg Supposed to be Pretty Hard to Citadel ???

 

And Hinden can be tough cookie... At short distances when turtleback can actually work.

 

And are you sure those are citadels, not just multiple AP pens from (overmatching) BBs?

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6 minutes ago, Panocek said:

And Hinden can be tough cookie... At short distances when turtleback can actually work.

 

And are you sure those are citadels, not just multiple AP pens from (overmatching) BBs?

 

Well apparently not lol.

Because I keep being Citadelled by almost every Single BB Salvo.

Including the ones from 6-8km

 

And Yes. I am sure. Because I can barely Heal back any of the Damage.

If it was just Several Pens it should at least Heal some of the Damage back.

If I lose half the Ships HP in a Salvo and dont even get a Full Heal back then this is clearly not Normal Pens.

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Like this? :cap_horn:Got more where I do this with Moskva f.e.

thing is: you need to be closer, then Hindenburg turtle back works.

 

Spoiler

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shot-18_07.13_11_43.08-0090.thumb.jpg.256d9b7a5581e40c1f05cefb0e7f086d.jpg

 

 

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17 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

Like this? :cap_horn:Got more where I do this with Moskva f.e.

thing is: you need to be closer, then Hindenburg turtle back works.

 

  Hide contents

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shot-18_07.13_11_43.08-0090.thumb.jpg.256d9b7a5581e40c1f05cefb0e7f086d.jpg

 

 

 

I think I just Explained that I got Citadelled from like 6km away.

 

Do you guys actually ever Read what I am saying ?

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3 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

Like this? 

 

 

More like this :Smile_trollface: 2nd one is also Hindenburg unspotted going to A :Smile_hiding:

Spoiler

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Or if you like to rush BBs in Hindenburg :Smile_trollface:

60k damage later (or -14k HP on my side) Scaredy pants Monty even turned away as you can see :Smile_sad:

 

Spoiler

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1 minute ago, Sunleader said:

 

I think I just Explained that I got Citadelled from like 6km away.

 

 

which, at least in the quantities you're describing, will not happen, period. So provide a number of replays of that consistently happening, or dont expect us to believe your claim of you doing nothing wrong.

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Just now, Sunleader said:

Do you guys actually ever Read what I am saying ?

 

I posted that before your comment showed up. Ever think about, that this might happen?

 

still the point stays: Hindenburgs turtle back is strong close range and easy to bypass long range. And well, if you meet an experianced player, that knows, how to citadell Hinenburg (cough front turrets cough) then tough luck. Guess what would happen to any other T10 Cruiser when it meets a BB at 6 km... yea, Hindenburg is actually the best choice in that situation. Also, you can rush & auto bounce a BBs with 406mm and they can do nothing about it, then take em down with your torps. Again, you need to learn how to do this. Its the third time we have this back and forth discussion about game mechanics, and you always go like "no, but..." yet other players manage to do this without a problem. How is that possible then?

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One day I will go back to this ship and make it work... one day, but not today. 

*shudders in horror

Still I don't remember citadels being a problem with her. :cap_hmm:

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12 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:

which, at least in the quantities you're describing, will not happen, period. So provide a number of replays of that consistently happening, or dont expect us to believe your claim of you doing nothing wrong.

 

No Offense to you. But I am asking you about this happening. I dont give a crab about you believing me or not.

You dont believe me ?

Fine with me. I.ll simply consider it as you got no Idea and thats all there is to it.

 

10 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

I posted that before your comment showed up. Ever think about, that this might happen?

 

still the point stays: Hindenburgs turtle back is strong close range and easy to bypass long range. And well, if you meet an experianced player, that knows, how to citadell Hinenburg (cough front turrets cough) then tough luck. Guess what would happen to any other T10 Cruiser when it meets a BB at 6 km... yea, Hindenburg is actually the best choice in that situation. Also, you can rush & auto bounce a BBs with 406mm and they can do nothing about it, then take em down with your torps. Again, you need to learn how to do this. Its the third time we have this back and forth discussion about game mechanics, and you always go like "no, but..." yet other players manage to do this without a problem. How is that possible then?

 

I actually said this in my Opening Post. So you being in this Topic means it was there before you posted.

But that aside.

 

And Maybe Read what I talked about.

 

ROON. You know the T9 German Cruiser.

I could use that thing and go Brawl with a Freaking Yamato without being Citadelled.

So why the Hell is Hindenburg suddenly Getting Citadelled so easily ???

 

My Question was why the Hindenburg is so much easier to Citadel than the Roon was.

But why did I even Ask. I should have Expected that I wont get any useful Answers on this here and will just meet the usual L2P rubbish.

 

In the Meantime I went ahead and Checked it myself.

And the Answer is rather Simple.

  • 0-30 degrees -> auto ricochet
  • 30-45 degrees -> chance to ricochet
  • 45-90 degrees -> ricochet doesn't occur

From the Wiki......

 

If you Strip off the External Armor on Roon and Hindenburg you notice that Hindenburg Turtleback is Angled around 60 Degree Upwards so Shells Hit it with a bit over 30 Degrees Angle. So its not Autobouncing any Shells. If its Hit by Sufficient Penetration Power its going to be Breached.

 

Roon Citadel however is Angled about 70 Degrees.... So Incoming Shells will meet it at a bit over 20 Degrees which means they get Autobounced.

Thats why Roon Citadel is so much better than Hindenburg Citadel...

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21 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

I could use that thing and go Brawl with a Freaking Yamato without being Citadelled.

 

No you cant... Because you may have met a Yamato, that had no clue where to point his guns, doesnt mean roon can and Hindenburg cant. You will not be doing that to me when I got 460mm arguments on my side, rest assured.

 

21 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

I dont give a crab about you believing me or not.

You dont believe me ?

Fine with me. I.ll simply consider it as you got no Idea and thats all there is to it.

 

You sure have a lot of confidence in yourself and your (limited) knowledge. You constantly tell those people in the forums, that have years of experiance and from whom Ive over the years saw 99% good advice, based on facts and understanding of game mechanics - that they have "no idea". Way to build yourself a reputation. Its rather the opposite: if you dont want to believe us, then its you, who has no idea. And we actually dont care that much - I know I wont any longer...

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32 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

No you cant... Because you may have met a Yamato, that had no clue where to point his guns, doesnt mean roon can and Hindenburg cant. You will not be doing that to me when I got 460mm arguments on my side, rest assured.

 

 

You sure have a lot of confidence in yourself and your (limited) knowledge. You constantly tell those people in the forums, that have years of experiance and from whom Ive over the years saw 99% good advice, based on facts and understanding of game mechanics - that they have "no idea". Way to build yourself a reputation. Its rather the opposite: if you dont want to believe us, then its you, who has no idea. And we actually dont care that much - I know I wont any longer...

 

1.

Fact is I did with the Roon and Won.

Fact is I did with the Hindenburg and Lost.

I dont care for your Opinions on this because I know what actually happened when I tried.

 

So is the Higher Angle on the Roons Citadel Turtleback.

Which according to these Game Mechanics means that the Roon can Autobounce even Yamato Shells while the Hindenburg can not.

 

Of course you might still do it. The Underwater Citadel Part is only 20mm and Flat on both Ships.

So you can Citadel em with Underwater Shots.

But its much Harder to Citadel Roon than Hindenburg.

 

2.

I Joined the Game in 2012 during the Beta.

When did you Guys Join if I might Ask ?

Not that it Really Matters. Because you could be here since 1999 and it would mean nothing. Because the Game has Changed Tremendously since then.

 

And See Mate. After Realizing that you guys wont Provide any Helpful Information I went ahead and simply Googled.

And Strangely enough what I found was that apparently short before the CV Rework. Hindenburg Armor was Nerfed and suddenly got Citadelled pretty Easily.

While before that it was actually next to Impossible to Citadel.

 

Take a Guess.....

 

3.

And Yes.

Sorry. But if you cant even Read my Question and just come me with the usual L2P Comments. Then with all due Respect.

PLEASE DO NOT CARE ANYMORE!

Your Answers do not Help anyone. Even less when your too lazy to bother reading the Question.

For Heavens Sake. You dont even have the Hindenburg.....

 

So far. All you did was basicly tell me L2P with no usable Information whatsoever.

Showing me Screenshots and Replays FROM DIFFERENT SHIPS WHICH PLAY COMPLETELY DIFFERENTLY from the Ship I asked something about.

 

 

 

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Blablabla... yeye just sell the Hindy and stay with Roon. Apparently it's crap.

And fix your attitude while you're at it.

 

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Maybe you should compare them in the armour viewer.

 You will see a near identical armour scheme sans the thicker upper belt and deck of the Hindy.

Then maybe you will view your anecdotal experience a little differently.

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Never had that issue, sure I'll get the occasional citadel. However, if you have this on a regular basis then I'm afraid it's linked to misplay on your end...

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5 hours ago, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

@Sunleader why don't you just open a Training Room with a lot of inactive Roons and Hindenburgs, to shoot them in a BB yourself and see if there is a difference? 

 

That's what I would do. 

 

That would have been my Favored Solution as well.

Unfortunately I dont have BBs above the 420mm on my GK so my Ability to actually Test this properly is rather Limited.

Because lets face it. With GK you can often Shoot even on US and British Cruisers which are Generally pretty easy to Citadel and wont get Citadels from 6-7km away because the Spread is such ********....

 

 

 

4 hours ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

We need replays... Sure, you got citadelled when broadside, but at what angle was your ship, etc etc. We need to those to help you.

 

 

 

Given that unlike the other guy you seem to be Sincere in that and not just provoking me. I.ll try to get some Replays done on this.

I am going to Play it for the Unique Upgrade anyways. So that should not pose a Problem.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, nambr9 said:

Blablabla... yeye just sell the Hindy and stay with Roon. Apparently it's crap.

And fix your attitude while you're at it.

 

 

Sure. Because I think that Hindy is Generally not a Good a Ship and this wasnt just about its Armor being so much easier to Citadel than Roon...

 

I liked the Roon Better. As its clearly the Superior Brawler. But Hindenburg is not such a Bad Ship actually. I like the Firepower of it quite a bit.

 

 

2 hours ago, gopher31 said:

Maybe you should compare them in the armour viewer.

 You will see a near identical armour scheme sans the thicker upper belt and deck of the Hindy.

Then maybe you will view your anecdotal experience a little differently.

 

Thats what I did.

And Yes. Hindenburg has Slightly Thicker Armor.

 

But as Stated above. I also saw something else.

Which is that the Roons Citadel Turtleback is Angled much more Steeply than the Hindenburgs.

 

Roons Citadel Turtleback will result in most Shells Fired Close Range on it. Just being Auto Ricochet. Because the Angle is less than 30 Degrees.

But on Hindenburg the Angle is higher. Its Thicker but its above 30 Degrees Impact Angle so the Auto Ricochet Mechanic does not Apply here. Meaning if you got enough Penetration you will still get into the Citadel

 

 

8 minutes ago, 159Hunter said:

Never had that issue, sure I'll get the occasional citadel. However, if you have this on a regular basis then I'm afraid it's linked to misplay on your end...

 

Thats Fine.

I am mostly about the Difference between Hindenburg and Roon.

 

In Roons I have several Times Brawled with Enemy Ships like Kremlin and Musashi etc and didnt get Citadelled.

With Hindenburg however this doesnt seem to work at all.

 

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16 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Unfortunately I dont have BBs above the 420mm on my GK so my Ability to actually Test this properly is rather Limited. 

Because lets face it. With GK you can often Shoot even on US and British Cruisers which are Generally pretty easy to Citadel and wont get Citadels from 6-7km away because the Spread is such ********....

 

As no ship can overmatch the Citadel slope, its pretty irrelevant which ship you take.

But i dont see any difference shooting Roon/Hindenburg. Both seems pretty much down to RNG if you get Citadels or no. Maybe you turned, that will offset the Turtleback armor and you get citadelled easier. German Cruiser like to tilt a lot if you make a full turn. I only got a double Cita once, but most of the time 1 cita on either, or even none (also on both).

 

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Spoiler

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Id say its mostly down to RNG: If you hit below the waterline, you have a better chance to get a Citadel hit. At close range, the shells have more speed so they probably can travel a bit more below water compared to shooting at longer distances. But i dont see much of a difference, only the 2 Citadel hit on the Hindi. But at the same time, also got salvos without Citadel on Hindi so... yeah RNG. Put another Cruiser in there you devstrike it.

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21 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

As no ship can overmatch the Citadel slope, its pretty irrelevant which ship you take.

But i dont see any difference shooting Roon/Hindenburg. Both seems pretty much down to RNG if you get Citadels or no. Maybe you turned, that will offset the Turtleback armor and you get citadelled easier. German Cruiser like to tilt a lot if you make a full turn. I only got a double Cita once, but most of the time 1 cita on either, or even none (also on both).

 

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Id say its mostly down to RNG: If you hit below the waterline, you have a better chance to get a Citadel hit. At close range, the shells have more speed so they probably can travel a bit more below water compared to shooting at longer distances. But i dont see much of a difference, only the 2 Citadel hit on the Hindi. But at the same time, also got salvos without Citadel on Hindi so... yeah RNG. Put another Cruiser in there you devstrike it.

 

It makes a Difference because of the Auto Ricochet Mechanics.

On Roon the Angle is Steeper. And on Close Range causes Automatic Ricochet against anything that does not Overmatch it.

On Hindenburg however its no longer as Steep. So you just need to have enough Penetration :)

 

Your Screenshots seems to Support that actually.

You got 4 Citadels. Which is 2 more Citadels on Hindenburg than on Roon.

And the 2 Citadels on Roon seems to have both been Underwater Penetrations of the Citadel.

 

As I said. If you look at the Armor Viewer you see the Roon has a much Steeper angle on its Turtlebacks.

And 40mm cant be Overmatched. So it will Automaticly Bounce anything on Close Range.

Hindenburg is Thicker. But it does not have the Steep Angle and thus wont Profit from the Automatic Ricochet.

I think thats why I tend to get more Citadels with Hindenburg than with the Roon.

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I actually hate facing hidernbergs and roons, they are one of the few cruisers that give me trouble and are a bloody nuisence to hit (because they all seem to know how to slow down and speed up at certain times and turn or do werid movements etc).

 

I also end up citadelling them mostly at long ranges unless one decides to broadside me at close range but usually they have to be at an angle otherwise my shells usually just overpen (probs just me failing to aim as per usual).

 

But then miss georgia does have slow shells but i don't do a hugely better in other faster shell bb's like the jean bart (probs just aiming issues).

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3 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

It makes a Difference because of the Auto Ricochet Mechanics.

If there is no ship, which can overmatch 40mm then how does it matter? Even Musashi will bounce off, if the angle is not good.

 

9 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

On Hindenburg however its no longer as Steep. So you just need to have enough Penetration :)

Which really isnt an issue for any BB gun...

 

11 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Your Screenshots seems to Support that actually.

I also got one more shot on the Hindenburg (lets ignore the <1km volley here, just wanted to see what happens, no citadel there tho)

If we look at that, we have 2 volley with and without Citadel on Roon, and 3 volley with Citadel / 2 without Citadel on Hindenburg. If you want a conclusive result, you would need to fire more often. But saying "oh those shots were lucky underwater cits on Roon but not on Hindi" is simply wrong. If Hindenburgs Citadel slope couldnt bounce the shells, you should be able to devstrike a Hindi. As i said, put any other Cruiser in there you will devstrike it.

 

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