is it me or is the phoenix bad?

[Penguin_mafia]

so i just upgraded from the st louis to the phoenix and i have to say im less than pleased. i thought the point of going up tiers was that ships got better not worse. the grand total of three whole guns on a broadside is terrible, if i wanted to play a ship with weak guns but with torpedoes i would play a destroyer. it also seems that the phoenix is a worse version of the tatsuta, which is a bit backwards since the tatsuta is tier 3, has a 6 torpedo spread compared to the phoenix's 2, the tatsuta also has a far faster reload time and more guns. i know it will probably get better with upgrades but this ship has nearly turned me off the american cruiser line completely. why does a line with a heavy focus on guns have a big destroyer, with all of the disadvantages of destroyers and cruisers. it it bigger than a destroyer, has the gun count of a destroyer, and doesnt have a smokescreen either.

tldr: the phoenix tier 1 is so terrible it doesn't even deserve to be in the same line as the st louis, and feels like a massive downgrade.

[Mindfulcrane07]

so i just upgraded from the st louis to the phoenix and i have to say im less than pleased. i thought the point of going up tiers was that ships got better not worse. the grand total of three whole guns on a broadside is terrible, if i wanted to play a ship with weak guns but with torpedoes i would play a destroyer. it also seems that the phoenix is a worse version of the tatsuta, which is a bit backwards since the tatsuta is tier 3, has a 6 torpedo spread compared to the phoenix's 2, the tatsuta also has a far faster reload time and more guns. i know it will probably get better with upgrades but this ship has nearly turned me off the american cruiser line completely. why does a line with a heavy focus on guns have a big destroyer, with all of the disadvantages of destroyers and cruisers. it it bigger than a destroyer, has the gun count of a destroyer, and doesnt have a smokescreen either.

tldr: the phoenix tier 1 is so terrible it doesn't even deserve to be in the same line as the st louis, and feels like a massive downgrade.

 

get the upgrades and you will love it (atleast i did) it just has a few less guns wich is not that bad it is faster and has torps all in all i like it and i dont really see anything bad with it

[Historynerd]

The number of guns increases when you get the hull upgrade, and it gets definitely better.

 

Besides, your best defense is your incredible speed; you can outrun destroyers in the Phoenix.

 

As a rule of thumb, I suggest this: never judge a ship before upgrading her completely.

[Armo1000]

2nd thread on this already.

http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/12174-wrong-tier-with-the-us-cruisers/

 

You new guys just need to play her a bit and will find that she is actually a big improvement over St Luis. Guns aren't everything. Dont just play one of two games in a new ship and say that it's bad.

 

 

[VVere]

Stock Phoenix is complete and utter crap.

Fully upgraded it's ok. But it is actually the first ship I encountered which is unplayable in stock configuration. I used FreeXP to get the two later hulls.

[LooneyBin]

well, it's "common" knowledge that the ST. Louis is fairly OP compared to the IJN counterpart (both in gun and armor).

 

however, the phoenix aint that bad once you get used to it, an same applies to the Omaha (tier 5), and once you get to the Cleveland, then you actually miss the torps (atleast that's what i experienced).

 

 

[NecroFlex]

the phoenix is awesome, when fully upgraded it deals a lot of DPM, maybe not like the St. Louis, but it's still a lot

when i first got it i thought it was crap aswell, once i upgraded it, the tides turned xD

same goes for the omaha, upgraded it's cool, stock is crap (tho upgrading doesn't change much, except for range which helps a lot)

[Penguin_mafia]

ehh, i might just drop the phoenix, its not my playstyle whatsoever and the st louis gave me high hopes for the cruiser line, i might switch to battleships. seems like they play more like the st louis than a ship within its own tree.

[Penguin_mafia]

i think im gonna fully upgrade it then judge it. people say it plays like a destroyer which i despise playing so im not holding out much hope.

[Armo1000]

i think im gonna fully upgrade it then judge it. people say it plays like a destroyer which i despise playing so im not holding out much hope.

 

it's a good ship and Omaha is even better so just play it out and you won't regret it when you get to tier6

[Warwolf1969]

I've got the Phoenix, with upgrades and it's still a crap ship. It's just an oversized destroyer but it is too big to use as one as you get spotted to easy. With no smoke cover you can't get close enough to use the torpedoes and you can't get into a gunnery fight as you have a weak fire power. Loved the St Louis, hate the Phonix and am not looking forwards to the Omaha.

[Bl4ckh0g]

I've got the Phoenix, with upgrades and it's still a crap ship. It's just an oversized destroyer but it is too big to use as one as you get spotted to easy. With no smoke cover you can't get close enough to use the torpedoes and you can't get into a gunnery fight as you have a weak fire power. Loved the St Louis, hate the Phonix and am not looking forwards to the Omaha.

 

it has 14 km range on her guns

that's pretty impressive on tier 4

Use that

and the torps on her are just an auxiliary weapon, you do not have to use them, they are just a nice addition

Play it like a light/scout cruiser not like a DD or an armored cruiser and you'll do just fine

 

[NecroFlex]

the St. Louis is slow and has no torps, Phoenix is fast and has torps, the RoF is about the same and guns are same when u upgrade the phoenix, also the phoenix and omaha are good at dodging incoming shells, i've been in a 3v1 quite a lot and been dodging the shell like mad and dealing damage at the same time since it has so many guns

and yeah, the Cleveland is a MONSTER, dont' have it yet but from what i saw, jesus, that thing will annihilate almost anything it finds

[LooneyBin]

the St. Louis is slow and has no torps, Phoenix is fast and has torps, the RoF is about the same and guns are same when u upgrade the phoenix, also the phoenix and omaha are good at dodging incoming shells, i've been in a 3v1 quite a lot and been dodging the shell like mad and dealing damage at the same time since it has so many guns

and yeah, the Cleveland is a MONSTER, dont' have it yet but from what i saw, jesus, that thing will annihilate almost anything it finds

 

regarding the Cleveland.... the Turrets are quite soft and are often taken out, leaving you with less firepower. (one battle i had 3 of my guns taken out), so expect to have 1-2 guns taken out basicly every game. (which so far have been my experience).  RoF is nice on the Cleveland, and the Alpha is Falling behind... armor wise it's decent, but not good enough to save you from the typical BB tactic (hide behind islands and "snipe" at +16 km range)..

 

[Devantejah]

 

regarding the Cleveland.... the Turrets are quite soft and are often taken out, leaving you with less firepower.

 

 

Known issue that is plaguing pretty much every ship, lost turrets are very commonplace.

[LooneyBin]

 

Known issue that is plaguing pretty much every ship, lost turrets are very commonplace.

 

havent experienced it that often with other ships, only the Cleveland seem to be suffering badly from it. (maybe just my bad luck shining through)

[Warwolf1969]

Nope Phoenix still crap.  In my last battle with the St Louis I sank a Kongo and partially helped with another BB.  If I tried that in the Phoenix all that happens is scrap metal.  The St Louis should be the tier 4 and the Phoenix Tier 3.  The tiers are supposed to get better not worst.

[Lolwut]

Sorry if I necro this, but the Phoenix is an awesome ship.

To whomever thinks it's crap, it's probably not your playstyle, or you have a lot to learn...

 

2772 avg exp seems pretty damn good to me

 

 

 

 

[ThatOneDidntGoIn]

The Phoenix is ok, the Omaha is awesome. People get obsessed with try to use torpedoes on cruisers because everyone wants big damage, Sod that, use your guns. Guns Guns Guns. No need for torps, they are just a bonus if someone gets too close.

 

You'll only have the phoenix for a handful of games anyway. Tier 5 and 6 is where the funs at.

 

 

[mtm78]

Omaha was a very pleasant grind after getting it elited, stock it didn't feel right but it's not supposed to I guess. Murmansk is even better, it's not worse then Omaha and it prints money, it also has 8km torps unlike Omaha and the best AA of any cruiser at tier 5. 

 

The phoenix is a destroyer leader, not a CA. Play it like one and it's not a bad grind. But that's the issue atm with WoWs, ships are not preparing you for the next ship in the line, there is no dedicated CL line or CA line, the BB lines are mixed with dreadnaughts, BC and BB's. So progression through a line sometimes requires switching playstyles a lot, which feels unnatural. 

[Pivke]

phoenix is like play 5 matches and get to next ship i dont see much problem here. even if you are crap at "phoenixing" you get to next ship in less than 2 hours

[mtm78]

phoenix is like play 5 matches and get to next ship i dont see much problem here. even if you are crap at "phoenixing" you get to next ship in less than 2 hours

 

I think my average game time is 12 minutes, and lower tier battles tend to be quicker than higher tier so I guess 1 hour should be totally doable. 

[Majorianus]

Omaha was a very pleasant grind after getting it elited, stock it didn't feel right but it's not supposed to I guess. Murmansk is even better, it's not worse then Omaha and it prints money, it also has 8km torps unlike Omaha and the best AA of any cruiser at tier 5. 

 

The phoenix is a destroyer leader, not a CA. Play it like one and it's not a bad grind. But that's the issue atm with WoWs, ships are not preparing you for the next ship in the line, there is no dedicated CL line or CA line, the BB lines are mixed with dreadnaughts, BC and BB's. So progression through a line sometimes requires switching playstyles a lot, which feels unnatural. 

 

You nailed it, Sir. Phoenix and the low tier IJN cruisers are destroyer leaades and require a more destroyer like playing style. Anti-DD is pretty fun with them. St. Louis was a heavily armored and armed protected cruiser, pretty much unique in the game. The we have Myogi, which was a paper battlecruiser and is hopeless as a battleship in the game, but does OK if you play it a bit like a cruiser. I would need some AA, though. A tier 4 ship with NO AA guns is too vulnerable to air attack.

[Pivke]

 

I think my average game time is 12 minutes, and lower tier battles tend to be quicker than higher tier so I guess 1 hour should be totally doable. 

 

probably yes. but i was thinking of worst case scenario. someone that just cant get in touch with that ship, and has a bad luck with MM on top of it.

[Lolwut]

The Phoenix is ok, the Omaha is awesome. People get obsessed with try to use torpedoes on cruisers because everyone wants big damage, Sod that, use your guns. Guns Guns Guns. No need for torps, they are just a bonus if someone gets too close.

 

You'll only have the phoenix for a handful of games anyway. Tier 5 and 6 is where the funs at.

 

 

 

The Omaha is a good ship and has a better broadside firepower than the phoenix... BUT its guns are much slower (24 seconds, compared to phoenix's 18).

Additionally, the phoenix has no front/aft "main" turrets (those who can fire both left and right); that means that if you quickly change side, you don't have to wait for the turret to turn, all your guns are already pointing on that side.

 

Hence, the Phoenix can have a more sustained RoF when dodging enemy shells. 

Due to this I tend to perform better on the Phoenix rather than the Omaha (I don't play an Omaha, but the Murmansk which is very similar).