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Butterdoll

Subs...mehhhhhhh.

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I just watched a Flamu video about subs and got bored.

Not only they have no place in an naval battle, the thing that keep popping in my mind is Pazerfaust or a Piat.

Apparently, they can output massive damage, with homing device torps. But that's it.

they are like planes, in the sense they can't do anything to each other.

the only ship that will counter them will be dds.

Maybe the dd will be the new RTS cv, before, rts cvs had the entire team asking for fighters cover all the time, at the same time.

Maybe the dds will switch places with cls, while the cruisers cap they are in a support role.

I don't know.

So far we had 4 classes of ships with well defined roles, and putting one new element in the mix will mess up the all thing.

It will be ugly,  a ugly mayhem and it will be at T6 :Smile_sceptic:

WG, lately  it's been craping a lot on my most played and favourite Tier.

DDs will be the most important ship in game and with the most value for the team.

 

the Mehhhhhhhhh part.

 

high damage torps with slow reload

very tiny HP.

extremely fragile.

No weapons apart from the torps.

the only thing that they can do other than torps, cap if they are at the surface.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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31 minutes ago, Butterdoll said:

cap if they are at the surface.

WG should make it they cap when at periscope level, but the cap goes 4x slower.

Risk of detection is also smaller. 

 

If they dumb it down too much indeed it's no fun. 

Homing torpedoes is also crazy, better the have torps like the brits. 

Shoot them in singles, but have more "at one time". 

 

"One torp at a time" will be much harder to balance. 

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6 hours ago, Butterdoll said:

they are like planes, in the sense they can't do anything to each other.

They can ram each other though. 

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7 hours ago, Butterdoll said:

the only ship that will counter them will be dds.

 

I did not watch the stream ... but this sounds dodgy.

 

What if there are no DDs left ... who counters subs then?

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I have also watched the submarine gameplay and it looked very boring and that's my worry, to make it "fun and engaging" to anyone other than the most die hard submarine fans will be to make them stupidly OP. 

 

Still WG is welcome to surprise me and actually balance them properly but I don't hold up much hope. 

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7 minutes ago, nambr9 said:

 

I did not watch the stream ... but this sounds dodgy.

 

What if there are no DDs left ... who counters subs them?

I'm guessing - 1. support your dds, 2. run away

 

It's kind of similar to cvs though. It's not like the other ships can counter a cv if it's not within view distance.

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1 minute ago, loppantorkel said:

I'm guessing - 1. support your dds, 2. run away

 

It's kind of similar to cvs though. It's not like the other ships can counter a cv if it's not within view distance.

Maybe fighter planes can be equipped with depth charges? :)

 

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3 minutes ago, nambr9 said:

Maybe fighter planes can be equipped with depth charges? :)

Maybe... but I'm kind of hoping cvs will be as vulnerable against subs as the other classes are against cvs. It's the perfect counter.

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They look game breaking! The only thing that can deal with them are destroyers and HE when they are not submerged! So when all allied destroyers are at the bottom of the ocean the game is pretty much GG and about that HE... yeah expect more HE spam from battleships and more conquerors!

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1 hour ago, nambr9 said:

 

I did not watch the stream ... but this sounds dodgy.

 

What if there are no DDs left ... who counters subs then?

Its worth noting that there are different counters depending on depth.

 

-Surfaced: The sub is no threat; it can't launch torps, it has no guns, it has no AA. It has 5km detection and is reasonably slow (26kn). It can be detected by all the usual stuff, including radar. Surfaced is the only time the sub takes on O2 and isnt using it up, so they will be forced to surface at various points during the game, and O2 is used reasonably fast.

 

-Periscope: This is the depth the sub is a threat, as it has torps at this level, and only a 2.5km detection. It can be spotted by being close (inc other subs), hydro, and planes. When the sub uses the homing lock, the sub appears on the minimap. Since the torps are short range, it will appear quite close. This lets planes, or anyone with hydro simply head to that area to spot it. At periscope it can be attacked, and at periscope it only moves 8kn.  Due to the front facing torps, the sub is positioned in totally the wrong direction to flee, and they turn like a garbage barge. Since they only have ~8k HP, pretty much any HE volley will do significant damage to them.

I was getting rocket volleys of 2.5- 3.5k on them, and a BB volley can simply delete them.

 

-Deep: At this depth, only depth charges from DD counter them. They counter them hard though - a few charges and it will kill a full HP sub. At this depth the sub can't spot (unless 2km proximity), or launch torps. While it can move fast again (26kn), this is still slower then most surface ships. What tends to happen is although the sub "dissapears", it has a hard time getting further than 5km away before it runs out of air and is forced to surface.

 

CV can absolutely trash subs.

DD can absolutelu trash subs.

Cruisers with hydro  can cause them massive problems

BB with hydro can cause them big problems

"Normal" BB aren't very good at finding them, but if the sub is spotted on surface/periscope the BB can delete them in 1 volley

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WG screwed up with the CV rework, they gonna put in and mess up subsmarines hoping we forget CV's, then well move to mines.

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Just now, MyopicHedgehog said:

Apparently you can't hit subs at periscope depth with a cruiser

 

 

Onthe other hand flamu one shots them in BBs

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6 minutes ago, kfa said:

Onthe other hand flamu one shots them in BBs

 

7 minutes ago, MyopicHedgehog said:

Apparently you can't hit subs at periscope depth with a cruiser.  Doesn't sound like a great idea.

 

Wonder if its based on caliber of shells. But agree it doesn't sound like a great idea.

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9 hours ago, Butterdoll said:

the only ship that will counter them will be dds.

Nope, CVs will also counter them. At periscope can get spotted. And if WG will release the alter CV line... They might have hedgehogs on planes. Even now rocket planes can do ok against the subs. 

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It's early days folks, give them a chance to try fit them in to a comfortable area in the game. I for one am quite grateful they're trying to add more variety.

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2 hours ago, Azalgor said:

WG screwed up with the CV rework, they gonna put in and mess up subsmarines hoping we forget CV's, then well move to mines.

 

A mine-layer shIp class

would be superb after the submarines went live.

Cant wait to play the Subs on the live server !

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3 hours ago, Animalul2012 said:

They look game breaking! The only thing that can deal with them are destroyers and HE when they are not submerged! So when all allied destroyers are at the bottom of the ocean the game is pretty much GG and about that HE... yeah expect more HE spam from battleships and more conquerors!

Wait, wait, wait, HE only?

Are you telling me that British CL will be completely helpless vs. subs?

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13 hours ago, Butterdoll said:

I just watched a Flamu video about subs and got bored.

Not only they have no place in an naval battle, the thing that keep popping in my mind is Pazerfaust or a Piat.

Apparently, they can output massive damage, with homing device torps. But that's it.

they are like planes, in the sense they can't do anything to each other.

the only ship that will counter them will be dds.

Maybe the dd will be the new RTS cv, before, rts cvs had the entire team asking for fighters cover all the time, at the same time.

Maybe the dds will switch places with cls, while the cruisers cap they are in a support role.

I don't know.

So far we had 4 classes of ships with well defined roles, and putting one new element in the mix will mess up the all thing.

It will be ugly,  a ugly mayhem and it will be at T6 :Smile_sceptic:

WG, lately  it's been craping a lot on my most played and favourite Tier.

DDs will be the most important ship in game and with the most value for the team.

 

the Mehhhhhhhhh part.

 

high damage torps with slow reload

very tiny HP.

extremely fragile.

No weapons apart from the torps.

the only thing that they can do other than torps, cap if they are at the surface.

 

 

 

..... In the very first test phase. 

lets try and bear in mind things might change !

 

myself i quite liked what i saw, lot to be fleshed out for sure , but it looks like they might  be good at punisheing island humpers and static players generally

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