submarines SUBMARINES - discussion, feedback, opinions

[Hexxas]

2 minutes ago, TunaRoll said:

There could be seasons with CVs/subs and without them? Just like there are seasons with different tiers, its just changing from time to time.

no that would diskrinate CVs and Sub players , it other ship type is allowed so should cv and subs ..

 

[TunaRoll]

Gerade eben, Eternus_Damnatio sagte:

Except most clans are saying they do not want cv's as they ruin gameplay and they may well go make their own system for CB's.

I can totally understand and comprehend that decision. Same will be for subs i guess. Its too hard to balance for highly competitive gameplay. Therefore WG should focus on its core and balance the base game to make clan battles fun again. But as i said before, that is just for the highly competitive side of the player base. We need to work out how we "save" the core gameplay as it is now for the majority of the player base. 

[ImTryingButYouDontHelp]

Subs are real trash. So, I'm on my Perth, inside my smoke.....but I'm permaspotted because there's a sub near me that I can't even spot with my hydro on? C'mon, this is absolutely ridiculous. The same about when a non sub charges cruiser, or a BB, is near a sub. Nothing she can do because the sub NEVER has to go to take oxigen. Pathetic. Imagine that both ships are the only ones at the finish of the battle; the sub only has to go to 80 mts depth to win, as the other ship will never be able to kill her. Well done, WG. Again, too many vodka.

[TunaRoll]

Vor 7 Minuten, Hexxas sagte:

no that would diskrinate CVs and Sub players , it other ship type is allowed so should cv and subs ..

 

It is a question of meta and if it works for that specific game mode or not. Clan battles are completely different to the modes that the mass is playing (f.e. random). So there needs to be a different solutions to that.

 

 

Tbh clan battles are already discriminating a lot of ships (and tiers of ships) just right now, too..people are mostly playing just two ships in clan battle this meta/season. In that sense, i would call that discrimination too?! But this not what this thread is about. That is a whole different discussion ---> how to rework/improve the game mode "clan battle".

 

Please dont mix up so many things. I am just trying to find a solution for people that like and also for people that dislike the new sub mechanic. This time it needs to better handled...nobody want a CV disaster 2.0. (we still have balancing problems on that one..)

[Hexxas]

3 minutes ago, Eternus_Damnatio said:

Except most clans are saying they do not want cv's as they ruin gameplay and they may well go make their own system for CB's.

but dude , you statement are not every ones thought on  this ,
i really think people need to get use to cv and sub gets in the game and change theire
playing style accordenly to it ...

but how would feel if we removed lets say BB  or Ca in clan battles
and its the only ship you want to play ?
this what happent to cv players and mabee subs. kinda harrashment of the cv class
going on ..

tell me why are cv allowed in king of sea battles  but not in clan batttles , if clans dont want them ,
then they shouldnt be using them in king of the sea event ?

 

 

[xxNihilanxx]

20 minutes ago, Hexxas said:

no that would diskrinate CVs and Sub players , it other ship type is allowed so should cv and subs ..

 

 

Which players only  have access to Subs and CVs? As far as I am aware everyone gets access to the same ship classes. The fact that you CHOOSE to play one class over another is on you, there is no discrimination involved other than that which you impose upon yourself. If there is a game mode that only allows certain ship classes it is entirely up to you whether you engage with that mode and play the required ships or ignore it entirely. I don't enjoy CV gameplay so if WG were ever to implement a game type where only CVs could compete I would just ignore it and go about my day. Wouldn't feel discriminated against at all. This is a YOU problem.

 

 

"if other ship type is allowed so should subs and CVs" - Why? Where is that written? This is a game made by a private company and as such (rightly or wrongly) their word is law. It seems to me that you feel they should be allowed because YOU want them to be. No thought for practicalities such as impact on gameplay/stagnation of meta/impossibilities of balancing or any such idea just a simple "I want so I should get!!!"

 

 

[Procrastes]

32 minutes ago, TunaRoll said:

But there is a solution to this - put the subs in an all time separat mode and let random as it is right now. So people can choose if they want to play with subs or not. Both sides would be happy. Also someone who does not like the class can still enjoy his game and maybe later on he wants to try it out. He is not forced to do anything. Thats the only right way imo - two separat game modes. :)

This is certainly a viable way forward, and one that I hope Wargaming will follow at least until subs are well enough balanced in relation to other ship classes so as not to disrupt the general gameplay.

 

But having a permanent separate game mode also runs the risk of depleting the numbers of players that make themselves available in said game mode. More specifically, I predict that over time, fewer and fewer players of surface ships would queue up for submarine battles, which in turn would lead to longer and longer queues for submarine players. Because, let's face it: If we had no CV:s in random battles, but only in a special CV game mode, then how many of the non-CV players would regularly sign up for CV battles?

 

With this in mind, I am far from certain that submarines can be kept alive in the game, as a ship class, if they stay in their own separate game mode for ever. Also, and on a more positive note, having CV:s and submarines around adds new parameters and tactical options for everyone, and thus it has the potential of making the game more dynamic and more fun for all. So, hoping that the game can be maintained in a fun and balanced state for all ship classes, I will move forward in the belief - or at least in the hope - that submarines will end up being good for all of us.

 

Cheers!

[TunaRoll]

Vor 7 Minuten, Hexxas sagte:

but dude , you statement are not every ones thought on  this ,
i really think people need to get use to cv and sub gets in the game and change theire
playing style accordenly to it ...

but how would feel if we removed lets say BB  or Ca in clan battles
and its the only ship you want to play ?
this what happent to cv players and mabee subs. kinda harrashment of the cv class
going on ..

tell me why are cv allowed in king of sea battles  but not in clan batttles , if clans dont want them ,
then they shouldnt be using them in king of the sea event ?

 

 

I know what you are saying, but again. I dont talk about how to improve the clan battle mechanic and how to avoid discrimination. Thats a different topic, i dont even feel right to talk about that since i dont play any clan battles (but my clan does a lot and we are talking about that in discord every day).

 

I am talking about how EVERYONE can be happy with a new class coming into this game. Yes, in my opinion its about HAVING A CHOICE to play with/against them or not. This is possible to an implemention option, for f.e. choosing between sub battles and random battle right now. If it stays that way, its a fair solutions for everyone.

[Hexxas]

1 minute ago, xxNihilanxx said:

 

Which players only  have access to Subs and CVs? As far as I am aware everyone gets access to the same ship classes. The fact that you CHOOSE to play one class over another is on you, there is no discrimination involved other than that which you impose upon yourself. If there is a game mode that only allows certain ship classes it is entirely up to you whether you engage with that mode and play the required ships or ignore it entirely. I don't enjot CV gameplay so if WG were ever to implement a game type where only CVs could compete I would just ignore it and go about my day. Wouldn't feel discriminated against at all. This is a YOU problem.

 

 

"if other ship type is allowed so should subs and CVs" - Why? Where is that written? This is a game made by a private company and as such (rightly or wrongly) their word is law. It seems to me that you feel they should be allowed because YOU want them to be. No thought for practicalities such as impact on gameplay/stagnation of meta/impossibilities of balancing or any such idea just a simple "I want so I should get!!!"

 

 

CW was part of the clan battles and was doing okay , problem is whiner get ther way again and again ... 
 

[AndyHill]

5 minutes ago, Hexxas said:

but dude , you statement are not every ones thought on  this ,

It's the truth, though.

5 minutes ago, Hexxas said:

i really think people need to get use to cv and sub gets in the game and change theire
playing style accordenly to it ...

Well they did, and the result is horrifically one dimensional and boring meta.

6 minutes ago, Hexxas said:

but how would feel if we removed lets say BB  or Ca in clan battles

1) They don't affect the meta in the same way

2) BBs have been removed from CB for this season

[AndyHill]

7 minutes ago, Hexxas said:

tell me why are cv allowed in king of sea battles  but not in clan batttles , if clans dont want them ,
then they shouldnt be using them in king of the sea event ?

Carriers are not allowed in KoTS.

[Eternus_Damnatio]

1 minute ago, Hexxas said:

CW was part of the clan battles and was doing okay , problem is whiner get ther way again and again ... 
 

Informed post there lol CB's without carriers were far more interesting games which allowed more varied tactics and strategies which is why people with more undertsanding of the game the game than you do not want them.

[xxNihilanxx]

1 minute ago, Hexxas said:

CW was part of the clan battles and was doing okay , problem is whiner get ther way again and again ... 
 

 

So anyone who disagrees with you is a "whiner"? You're about as good at debating about WoWS as you are at playing it, I don't feel that either is a strong point for you.

[Hexxas]

1 minute ago, xxNihilanxx said:

 

So anyone who disagrees with you is a "whiner"? You're about as good at debating about WoWS as you are at playing it, I don't feel that either is a strong point for you.

i didnt say that , infact i said whiners get the thing the want again and again  cv-rework proven that ,  DD players whine and things get change ,
wondering if DD players will get radars nerf soon or hydro for that matter , and get wargaming to boost the torpedos on dmg and numbers..
so they can be OP again ...
 

[xxNihilanxx]

1 minute ago, Hexxas said:

i didnt say that , infact i said whiners get the thing the want again and again  cv-rework proven that ,  DD players whine and things get change ,
wondering if DD players will get radars nerf soon or hydro for that matter , and get wargaming to boost the torpedos on dmg and numbers..
so they can be OP again ...
 

 

Oh dear, that old chestnut...

 

Answer me this, how come YOUR destroyers aren't so OP? Did you buy some dodgy, knock-off DDs from a guy in a pub or something?

[Hexxas]

5 minutes ago, Eternus_Damnatio said:

Informed post there lol CB's without carriers were far more interesting games which allowed more varied tactics and strategies which is why people with more undertsanding of the game the game than you do not want them.

Really dude ? so you calling me stupid ? 
i think its your point of view , that "CB" got more interesting with out carriers ,
from a cv players point view we got excluded from a part of the game that was inportant.
and you think thats okay,  i mean i pay my premium days like everyone else but get excluded
som clan battles ... thats pretty unfair if you ask me ...
 

[BLUB__BLUB]

28 minutes ago, Hexxas said:

no that would diskrinate CVs and Sub players , it other ship type is allowed so should cv and subs ..

Meh, you might just as well say it discriminates the Tier 1, 2, 3... poor Tachibana. 

[Hexxas]

6 minutes ago, xxNihilanxx said:

 

Oh dear, that old chestnut...

 

Answer me this, how come YOUR destroyers aren't so OP? Did you buy some dodgy, knock-off DDs from a guy in a pub or something?

Becouse i dont play them as much , i reather play Cv and pretty sure ill be playing subs too ,
and tbh i do only play DD, CA, BB when i get forced to as the events going one ,
like the Russian  heavy cruisers  and so ..
and if care to read the the posts  before posting then you would know this...

 

[BLUB__BLUB]

4 minutes ago, Hexxas said:

Really dude ? so you calling me stupid ? 
i think its your point of view , that "CB" got more interesting with out carriers ,
from a cv players point view we got excluded from a part of the game that was inportant.
and you think thats okay,  i mean i pay my premium days like everyone else but get excluded
som clan battles ... thats pretty unfair if you ask me ...
 

This CB you could choose a BB or a CV, and the rest was upto the team. 

 

WG have "balanced" the average damage output from CV. But they are still broken AF. 

And then you can take them in teams that do not have 12, but 7 players. On a smaller map.

What happened, one CV and six Stalingrads or Venezias is what you need to win now.  

There's teams that do not have that. Eh. No fun. And I think, even more unfair. 

 

And sure I play CVs, and BBs, and cruisers (not Dds because I suck). 

And  I will play subs (and probably suck). 

But I think WG is rather like trans-athletes in sports... they do not see the obvious.

[Eternus_Damnatio]

13 minutes ago, xxNihilanxx said:

  14 minutes ago, Hexxas said:

i didnt say that , infact i said whiners get the thing the want again and again  cv-rework proven that ,  DD players whine and things get change ,
wondering if DD players will get radars nerf soon or hydro for that matter , and get wargaming to boost the torpedos on dmg and numbers..
so they can be OP again ...
 

Cv's were changed because they were not balanced never have been all you are doing is digging a deeper and deeper hole for yourself.
And if things got changed because people whine then all ships would be OP lol

[xxNihilanxx]

13 minutes ago, Hexxas said:

Becouse i dont play them as much , i reather play Cv and pretty sure ill be playing subs too ,
and tbh i do only play DD, CA, BB when i get forced to as the events going one ,
like the Russian  heavy cruisers  and so ..
and if care to read the the posts  before posting then you would know this...

 

 

According to your stats you have more games in DDs than you do in CVs. Of your top 5 most played ships (discounting the now non-existent T6 Cleve), 3 of them are DDs. Of course 2 of those 3 ships are there because you have had them since CBT (I presume you bought into the game with the 3-ship bundle) so I would expect them to have been played quite a bit more that the others. Still with all that practice you were still unable to demonstrate the "OPness" of those DDs, and let's not ignore the fact that your most played ship is the Gremy, considered for a long time to be the most OP ship in the game (and iirc the first to be removed for exactly that reason) and still you couldn't get her to perform in the OP manner you suggest. What went wrong?

 

You are defending CVs so ardently because it appears you are slightly less incompetent in them than the other classes.

 

You can't pull the wool over my eyes, mate, if you care to read MY posts before posting then you would know this...

[Hexxas]

16 minutes ago, xxNihilanxx said:

 

According to your stats you have more games in DDs than you do in CVs. Of your top 5 most played ships (discounting the now non-existent T6 Cleve), 3 of them are DDs. Of course 2 of those 3 ships are there because you have had them since CBT (I presume you bought into the game with the 3-ship bundle) so I would expect them to have been played quite a bit more that the others. Still with all that practice you were still unable to demonstrate the "OPness" of those DDs, and let's not ignore the fact that your most played ship is the Gremy, considered for a long time to be the most OP ship in the game (and iirc the first to be removed for exactly that reason) and still you couldn't get her to perform in the OP manner you suggest. What went wrong?

 

You are defending CVs so ardently because it appears you are slightly less incompetent in them than the other classes.

 

You can't pull the wool over my eyes, mate, if you care to read MY posts before posting then you would know this...

if you notice , i dont play every day , and if you notice , that there was a time where CV was not in the game,
and i alot of thouse matches was in "dd" , "CA" and "DD" and its not like that you can complete campains in
CV , some of the stepping stones forcing you to do "normal " borring ships like "DD" , "CA" and "BB"
And again you looking at stats as i recall tryping more than once i do not care for stats, never have done ,
never will do ...
but clearly some people lives for stats and not for the fun of the game.. im just not one of them ...

infact if you look at the page you see i have played ships that is not in the game anymore and
cant changes thouse stats becouse you can get them.. but again im telling you this becosue clearly you
are one of the stats riders in the game ...

 

[ImTryingButYouDontHelp]

29 minutes ago, Hexxas said:

Really dude ? so you calling me stupid ? 
i think its your point of view , that "CB" got more interesting with out carriers ,
from a cv players point view we got excluded from a part of the game that was inportant.
and you think thats okay,  i mean i pay my premium days like everyone else but get excluded
som clan battles ... thats pretty unfair if you ask me ...
 

 

I play Cvs and you should admit that the majority of the teams right now are Stalins + Venezias + CV. Sometimes, a Halland because she has the strongest AA. One don't have to be an eagle to see that. Before CVs, you could see a lot of different configuratios, including different types of DDs (conceal+torp or gunner), different Cruisers or BBs, etc. The only positive thing about CVs at CB is that we don't see Smolensks anymore 

[FerrowTheFox]

Vor 32 Minuten, Hexxas sagte:

Becouse i dont play them as much , i reather play Cv and pretty sure ill be playing subs too ,
and tbh i do only play DD, CA, BB when i get forced to as the events going one ,
like the Russian  heavy cruisers  and so ..
and if care to read the the posts  before posting then you would know this...

So let me get this straight...You don't actually like playing the core classes (for 10k battles!) of the game that are balanced against each other and demand other players (who like to play these core classes) need to learn to adapt to stuff you'd like to see in the game but that also completely throws what balance the game has out the window?

 

Because it's not just about "I don't like new stuff" as I've tried to point out. New stuff is often good, but if it completely changes the game for the worse it may not be worth it. And pointing that out is not whining.

 

Now I'm far from a good DD player, but what us "DD whiners" criticize is for example the complete denial of concealment play by CVs. It destroys one of the core aspects of this class, which has the lowest HP in exchange for best concealment. It means DDs can't do their jobs as effectively and have to play passive as hell. Other classes like CAs and BBs mourn the denial of effective flanking and cross-firing positons because the CV can spot and strike with impunity anyone who dares wander outside a blob. So it's not that we "hate on CVs" just for the fun of it, we question the implementation when they change the meta for the worse!

 

And subs at the moment promise to do the same. They ruin concealment play, punish flanking and thus may very well lead to an even more passive and cautious meta!

[Hexxas]

i play the core classes becouse i have too , wargaming put in missions , campains ect .  you cant do in CV and just tjek the current
campain is you doubt me , its the one for european commander..

and no i do not like Normal ship classes , i like cw and hopefully subs ..
remember we did not have cv right away back then it was implement laters so i have a lot of matches in thosue ships ,
and if it was possible to play with out ca , dd and bb to get carriers and complete  compains ,
i probly woulndt play the borring classes like DD , CA and DD.
i actuly think beta matches is included in thouse 10,460 matches ..

and 10k battles is from the start to now .. that aint that many , i seen people with 20k , 30k battles ..

but you can fire you torps out side cv 2nd guns  , and  you can hide in smoke  ect.. if cv let dds
go unsported or attacked then the game will be lost fast , becouse of the "consealment" and
no limit torpedos spamming ...


Prioty list when i play my CV
1. kills off Enemy dds , help our own dd with fighters
2. kill off enemy cv if i know where it is , spot for the team
3. Defend friendly ships , defend caps
4. kill off Ca
5 . go for BB
** however sometimes i have to change the prioties on the list doing the match

do to a cv cant be every where ..

 

thats how i play my cv team play have prioty here.....
oh btw , i have all Cv in the game except the lame british  tier 8 premium cv , thats is the worse cv ever made in the game ...

 

 

anyways i have to go , need dinner and go for a run ..  :)