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SUBMARINES - discussion, feedback, opinions

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[NIKE]
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2 hours ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

so basically not play the game ... going by the last sentence ...

 

angling does not help against torps because you always take some damage on impact, you have to actively avoid them. angling helps against BBs because you can actually bounce shells so they either don't penetrate or don't do citadel damage. also a static angle is enough here, no active manouvering is needed (depending on the caliber to armor combination of course, but that's again something that's not a factor with torps).

 

I don't want to see what a T10 sub will do when both pings land ... just seeing a T6 reducing a BB to 5% HP with 2 torps is too much ...

You can choose to not play the game if you want. Its a massive over reaction IMO, but that's your choice. Replace sub with another BB, or with a torp DD. You'd have to choose which to angle against, or not got to a position where you have to choose.

 

Take sub torps broadside with double lock = 35k damage.

Take sub torps on nose/aft = 5k damage.

 

You can argue that "angling doesn't help"  but the difference in damage is clear.

You can argue that you will always take some damage from torps that hit you. The same is true for shells unless your opponent is particularly stupid, as they can always aim for super structure, or switch to HE. Angling against shells stops you being deleted it doesnt make you invunerable.

 

I dont know what the T10 will be, so Im not going to guess.

 

Personally from playing a BB against them, I found them to be rather meh rather than incredibly threatening

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[THESO]
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Ok seriously i am starting to obsessively check my email every two hours. When are the round two test starting!?!?!?!?!

 

Khajiit has coin if you have subs. 

 

Gimme gimme gimme gimme

 

Ok ill go lock myself in the rubber room for two hours now.

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[NIKE]
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@Hugh_Ruka So I decided to go do some more testing with BB to add pictures rather than just opinions

 

This is what happens if you ignore the sub, don't angle against it and allow it to get both ping locks (front and back);

image.png.7dcf63fdbffb8cc283662ceebc4d1e86.png

 

A nice large 35k damage. Side note - turns out fat [edited]of the new mexico won't fit between 2 torps and instead triggers both on it's citadel (in hind sight, should have picked one to take on the nose, rather than tried squeezing through them and triggering double citadel)

 

This however is angling against the sub so they can't get the second ping, and me deciding to camp on top of them until they're forced to emerge;

image.png.1995665bd1775a8687af7364edeb8096.png

 

 

Edit:

 

I decided to try a new tactic - when they ping me with sonar, they show up on the minimap. At this point I KNOW they are at periscope depth, can't move faster than 8kn, and are probably sat in binocs view watching to see if their ping hits. They're then also probably waiting to try for a second ping.

The mini map has a circle to show where the guns are pointed.

 

I present to you the newly patented "firing-your-guns-at-the-spot-the-sub-just-showed-up-even-though-you-can't-actually-see-them";

image.png.9f6ea3be83a55c368c39db04b5e8789d.png

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40 minutes ago, Xevious_Red said:

 

I decided to try a new tactic - when they ping me with sonar, they show up on the minimap. At this point I KNOW they are at periscope depth, can't move faster than 8kn, and are probably sat in binocs view watching to see if their ping hits. They're then also probably waiting to try for a second ping.

The mini map has a circle to show where the guns are pointed.

 

I present to you the newly patented "firing-your-guns-at-the-spot-the-sub-just-showed-up-even-though-you-can't-actually-see-them";

image.png.9f6ea3be83a55c368c39db04b5e8789d.png

Ooooh - going to have to try that. 

 

Having spent too much time in Silent Hunter, Dangerous Waters and Cold Waters I always dive and run after shooting as a force of habit - more than happy to teach a few people the importance of this via your method....

 

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1 hour ago, H4d3zZz said:

Ok seriously i am starting to obsessively check my email every two hours. When are the round two test starting!?!?!?!?!

 

Khajiit has coin if you have subs. 

 

Gimme gimme gimme gimme

 

Ok ill go lock myself in the rubber room for two hours now.

I've been sent the first survey on what I thought of things. My guess is that they'll collate the data from this first test round and then expand it further after that. 

 

This is using the REEEEEEEEEEWork testing process as a guide (some friends got invites not long after the first surveys went out for the 1st testing round).

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[PSA]
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Here is my final -nobullshit- opinion: 

Subs are needs skill to perform well. Just like all the other type of vessels in the game. 

Its not noobproof and so it shouldn't be. 

I managed to play alongside of subs in all classes and the subs didn't made much difference. They made this game a little bit more interesting. 

The low healthpool, the lack of armour and the lack of mobility makes it unique and hard to play. To fight against a DD or a cruiser is in vain, but that is ok! At least what we had a chance to try out in tier 6. I presume they would get better in higher tiers. 

If only they could launch torp from the back too, and they could recharge some O2 on peliscope deep. 

Te ability to submerge is only a tool on the subs at the moment, like a smoke on other ships, but they have no speed to get out of a trouble. 

To sneak up on a CV and kill it is possible, but you kind of need to be lucky to do that. 

Having said that, it is perfectly fits to the game. 

Because when you lucky or skilled enought to pre-locate yourself to a flank where you dont need to worry about DD-s and fast reloading cruisers, you can pull off some good numbers of damage. If a BB has no 'guardian' you can deal with it 1v1. 

So far I like what I've seen. 

And for those who think they are OP, or not strong enought, just remember: 

Skill required to play well, pretty much any type of ships. Teamwork needed too! And last but not least: 

We only seen subs at tier 6 so far! They has to be more mobile underwater and they must have more air capacity (or recarging ability) on higher tiers, to stand a chance to survive encounters with ships equipped with radar for example. 

 

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13 hours ago, Xevious_Red said:

@Hugh_Ruka So I decided to go do some more testing with BB to add pictures rather than just opinions

 

This is what happens if you ignore the sub, don't angle against it and allow it to get both ping locks (front and back);

image.png.7dcf63fdbffb8cc283662ceebc4d1e86.png

 

A nice large 35k damage. Side note - turns out fat [edited]of the new mexico won't fit between 2 torps and instead triggers both on it's citadel (in hind sight, should have picked one to take on the nose, rather than tried squeezing through them and triggering double citadel)

 

This however is angling against the sub so they can't get the second ping, and me deciding to camp on top of them until they're forced to emerge;

image.png.1995665bd1775a8687af7364edeb8096.png

 

 

Edit:

 

I decided to try a new tactic - when they ping me with sonar, they show up on the minimap. At this point I KNOW they are at periscope depth, can't move faster than 8kn, and are probably sat in binocs view watching to see if their ping hits. They're then also probably waiting to try for a second ping.

The mini map has a circle to show where the guns are pointed.

 

I present to you the newly patented "firing-your-guns-at-the-spot-the-sub-just-showed-up-even-though-you-can't-actually-see-them";

image.png.9f6ea3be83a55c368c39db04b5e8789d.png

Seen this last tactic a few times now. It does seem to be effective.

 

Also worth pointing out that sub on sub fights are just like ....

 

It's too easy to just dive and avoid the torps,

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44 minutes ago, Winged_Cat_Dormant said:

I am ready to test this but I am not sure I am ready to play this in a new game meta.

 

I am ready to test this, but we've already missed the full first round and there is no clarity whatsoever as to whether we'll be invited to test for a second round

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Here's my feedback: I wish the test server wouldn't get shut down at 2200 local time. I have hardly been able to test because of that. Come on WG, I'm an adult, I'm allowed to stay up late. :cap_old:

 

That is all.

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46 minutes ago, Isoruku_Yamamoto said:

I am ready to test this, but we've already missed the full first round and there is no clarity whatsoever as to whether we'll be invited to test for a second round

Ev1n said on the Birthday stream, they will open up the test to more people in waves but everyone who applied will get in eventually.

 

We need more players its 3 or 4 humans tops per side with bots to make up the numbers. The AI is basically the co=op rules DD spotted chase it down, bots running into islands. In a sub i'm spotted and ignored over the DD they are chasing down. It's very difficult to assess anything at the moment. All we can really do is get used to the core mechanics in this iteration.

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[PANEU]
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17 hours ago, H4d3zZz said:

Ok seriously i am starting to obsessively check my email every two hours. When are the round two test starting!?!?!?!?!

 

My email is always open in my browser since saturday. I feel you bro.

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I watched that Jingles video on submarines, where he states - among other things - that the damage done to submarines with depth charges should perhaps be toned down a bit.

 

I have a quick reflection on this. Yes, depth charges do seem to do a lot of damage very quickly. But since the submarine will be continuously proximity spotting any ship that is directly overhead, the destroyer will most likely be under fire from just about every enemy ship within shooting range during the whole depth charging run. So unless the depth charging sinks the submarine pretty darn quickly, the destroyer probably won't have time to finish the job before being sunk itself. The effectiveness of depth charging must be balanced with this in mind.

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56 minutes ago, Procrastes said:

I watched that Jingles video on submarines, where he states - among other things - that the damage done to submarines with depth charges should perhaps be toned down a bit.

 

I have a quick reflection on this. Yes, depth charges do seem to do a lot of damage very quickly. But since the submarine will be continuously proximity spotting any ship that is directly overhead, the destroyer will most likely be under fire from just about every enemy ship within shooting range during the whole depth charging run. So unless the depth charging sinks the submarine pretty darn quickly, the destroyer probably won't have time to finish the job before being sunk itself. The effectiveness of depth charging must be balanced with this in mind.

Do you have any clue how many destroyers actually can go 20min games fully spotted and easily survive 40% of those games? 

The Friesland was recently released, which will be the anti-submarine King probably, and that thing doesn't give a flying F about being spotted- its always spotted anyway

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17 minutes ago, Xevious_Red said:

There's nothing that stops them giving different nations different strength depth charges

giphy.gif

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[PIKAS]
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2 hours ago, Isoruku_Yamamoto said:

............

The Friesland was recently released, which will be the anti-submarine King probably, ...............

i see no reason why (leaving its real life job beside)

And i dont think WG will make the HMS Daring's Squid a working weapon.

Are Hedgehogs modeled on any ship in game ?

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On 9/24/2019 at 2:00 PM, Hugh_Ruka said:

just seeing a T6 reducing a BB to 5% HP with 2 torps is too much ...

I'm sorry but how is this any different to what a BB can do to any cruiser that shows a broadside?

 

And do that from range.

 

With the sub there is some skill in actually having to position yourself where you think the enemy is going.

 

Lock your target and fire torps.

 

Then the fun starts.

 

You have to manual lead your target to achieve a ping lock on a small bow and stern area. There is some skill in actually achieving that. Especially if the target is using WASD hax. However if the enemy sails straight and true AND you can with the skill needed actually achieve the ping locks then the enemy deserves everything he gets. Just as a cruiser sailing straight and true deserves.

 

And the sub risks alot to achieve that. He has to reveal his position, and with such a small HP pool a single shell  from a well aimed salvo is enough to kill him.

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Sub vs sub combat is lacking.

Subs should be able to torp each other. Thus is ridiculous and will lead to extremely annoying end game situations if not corrected.

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[THESO]
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7 hours ago, Isoruku_Yamamoto said:

The Friesland was recently released

I would like to argue that the high tier french and ruskies will be good sub hunters with their hyper speed engines.

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3 hours ago, stinkmorchel said:

i see no reason why (leaving its real life job beside)

And i dont think WG will make the HMS Daring's Squid a working weapon.

Are Hedgehogs modeled on any ship in game ?

I'd be inclined to think that the over-emphasized, mortar-like weapons on the Friesland, that happened to appear at the same time as the advent of submarines was announced, haven't been put there as a mere coincidence...?

 

But I knew nothing about the Daring Squid. It sounds like a marvelous beast indeed. Tell me more!

 

I assume that once submarines make it into the game, hedgehogs will appear at one time or another, at least on British ships. They were rather successful anti-submarine weapons, after all - or at least that's what I've heard.

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[TRID]
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Should players targeted by a sub not be able to hear the acoustic ping, therefore knowing that they've been painted as a target?

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13 hours ago, Xevious_Red said:

There's nothing that stops them giving different nations different strength depth charges

Da Komrad, make educated guess which nation will have best depth charges...

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3 hours ago, 159Hunter said:

Da Komrad, make educated guess which nation will have best depth charges...

You mean go to 10kt fission devices at T9 and 10 :Smile_trollface:

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[LEAKS]
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In reality the introduction of both carriers and submarines into naval warfare changed battle order and virtually eliminated the value of battleships, reduced the need for many cruisers and relegated destroyers to anti submarine warfare. Navies today are based around carriers and submarines.  This evolution would completely destroy the raison d'etre of World of Warships and it was apparent that carrier play in the game was the most contentious aspect and I suspect that submarine play will bring the game to its knees, which in the real world would be  an attainment to be striven for but in virtual gameplay is going to upset a very large number of players.  WG should have stuck to the "Battle of Jutland" era model for this game and realised that the Pacific battles of WWII are far less entertaining in gameplay.   And my hobby horse?  Torpedoes!  There are just too many in the water at any given time.  They should be a much rarer and more valuable asset that player have to conserve.  Submariners would consider two torpedoes more than adequate for any attack and then have to haul very large heavy lumps of metal around in confined spaces to reload tubes from a limited armoury.  I'd hope that WoW submarines would be similarly constrained from launching full salvoes and reloading them and doing it again and again but I suspect that they won't and what with aicraft, DDs and submarines all launching full salvo torpedo attacks, you will be able to walk across the battle area on torpedoes without getting your feet wet!

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