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Tyrendian89

Mid tier silver CVs

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So... now that the latest AA Reshuffle Kerfuffle has had some time to settle... How are the six silver CVs at T6 & T8 doing these days? How do they feel to play, and to a lesser extent play against? How do they fare when top tier, and when bottom tier? Kind of tempted to give them a go (and have plenty of ressources to jump into any one I might want to), but I neither want to go clubbing with the monstrous new Hosho, nor do I want to make my teams suffer from "useless T10 CV syndrome" in the process:Smile_teethhappy:

 

Things I am not interested in:

  • Blind CV hate
  • Blind CV apologists
  • One-line answers with an extract of stats from maplesyrup. Sorry @ColonelPete :Smile-_tongue:
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Well, i can comment from playing against them:

DPS feels underwhelmingly bad. I guess if the CV likes to eat Flak bursts you can dispose of them quickly. But couple examples:

Was playing Amagi vs Furious. He attacked me for the entire game, luckily their alpha damage is not that high and he didnt get lucky with dots. But i had like >50k plane damage with 16 planes shot down (i believe it was 16). Noone from my team got more plane kills so i think they escaped to safety because DPS was not enough to kill them in time.

Yesterday played CM vs Ranger. Basicly he only attacked me once at the end of the game with rocket planes, Sector + DefAA shot down 4 planes, he hit me for 6600 damage - questionable imo :cap_old:

With PEF in Ranked sprint i usually had good results against the CVs, shooting them down pretty comfortably.

 

On the other hand, ive also seen players dispose of entire squads before they get a drop in, so that must be those who get hit by flak bursts

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T8s are rough, you end up pretty much always in t10 and although you can harrass any t10 ships, more often than not you have only 1 chance to do damage than your planes will get gangbanged and lose all of them. 

Grinding the Audacious was more annoying than fun. I would say 60-70k dmg and middle of the scoreboard is what you can expect. It just wasnt enough for my standards. 

 

On the other hand T10 CVs are stronk. And Kaga/Enterprise as well. 

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The Shokaku is holding up surprisingly well for me, but you do need to know how to play it. 

It is pretty unforgiving, since you'll lose aircraft like crazy. 

Same holds for the Ryujo basically, though your aircraft go down less quick there relatively. 

Shokakus 5x2 torpedo bomber layout is annoying, but useful against lone targets

US CVs are pretty okay, but again struggle with keeping aircraft up. The rockets are situational, though tiny Tims (tier 8-10) are very strong against everything. Torpedos become useful with midway really, and HE dive bombs are just really good, but they need to hit. 
Learning to conserve aircraft is really incredibly important. 

I'm only at the furious in RN CVs- it is bad compared to the other two, though reasonably fun. Dont expect proper damage or kill securing potential. 


As for counterplay: i honestly think counterplay is pretty easy in really any ship, any type. In destroyers the main thing you have to pay attention to is when to activate & deactivate AA. Also, you need to line up your ship roughly diagonal to incoming rockets to minimize damage generally. Against Torpedos just steer in on the attack run, against dive bombers try to be perpendicular to the attack run. 

General counterplay tip: try to use your ~ or O key sector prioritizing as aircraft come about 0.2km within your AA range (not before they enter). Use it as often as you can while aircraft are in mid-long range AA, while pointing the camera. 

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8 minutes ago, Isoruku_Yamamoto said:

Shokakus 5x2 torpedo bomber layout is annoying, but useful against lone targets.

More than useful -- it is very devastating. Same goes for all IJN silver CV's. The big size of the squadron makes it a massive asset so you need to be extra careful with it. However, when the lone battleship appears... Oh boy! With Shokaku's 5x2 squadron you can typically dump three or four pairs of torps into a lone T8 battleship.

 

On topic: The silver CV's seem fine to me. Both IJN and USN lines are consistent in their respective playing styles, and the different tier ships do fine against what they can face. AA progression is now more gentle (since 0.8.7), so even the squishy planes of Ryujo and Shokaku don't have such hard time when bottom tier anymore. I don't have much experience with the RN tree, but don't hear or see anything bad about it.

 

For me there are currently two problems with the specific CV's: T4 being OP in general and Hosho in particular, and the premiums being poorly balanced. T4 will likely be fixed in 0.8.9 latest since it's currently so toxic, and Enterprise is no longer on sale. Kaga remains OP but not outrageously so. 

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1 minute ago, asalonen said:

More than useful -- it is very devastating. Same goes for all IJN silver CV's. The big size of the squadron makes it a massive asset so you need to be extra careful with it. However, when the lone battleship appears... Oh boy! With Shokaku's 5x2 squadron you can typically dump three or four pairs of torps into a lone T8 battleship.

 

On topic: The silver CV's seem fine to me. Both IJN and USN lines are consistent in their respective playing styles, and the different tier ships do fine against what they can face. AA progression is now more gentle (since 0.8.7), so even the squishy planes of Ryujo and Shokaku don't have such hard time when bottom tier anymore. I don't have much experience with the RN tree, but don't hear or see anything bad about it.

 

For me there are currently two problems with the specific CV's: T4 being OP in general and Hosho in particular, and the premiums being poorly balanced. T4 will likely be fixed in 0.8.9 latest since it's currently so toxic, and Enterprise is no longer on sale. Kaga remains OP but not outrageously so. 

I own the Kaga, and the Kaga is a strong ship. It is relatively forgiving and has good damage potential- but thats the gimmick  of the Kaga. 
However, it certainly is not OP. The Kaga actually has a lower damage number than the Saipan and only slightly higher than Enterprise, while both those CVs are more balanced towards gameplay influencing. 
The thing with Kaga is that it is more polarized. Poor players hardly do anything, good players do a whole lot in it. 

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7 minutes ago, Isoruku_Yamamoto said:

The thing with Kaga is that it is more polarized. Poor players hardly do anything, good players do a whole lot in it. 

Yeah, I guess "potentially OP" is a better description of Kaga. I have played Enterprise, Kaga, Shokaku and Lex in roughly equal numbers, and my gut feeling is that for a win, Kaga outperforms Shokaku and Lex. It's not a huge difference by any means, and some people say do say it's a turd. Possibly it's a bit of a toy for unicums and fine as it is -- at least it's fun to play since it's genuinely different.

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Implacable is an op beast and hold up well even in T10. It spoiled me with an unbelievably high winrate for my skill levels which I would never reach otherwise. Implacable in T8 deals with every problem easily its crazy

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2 hours ago, Tyrendian89 said:

and to a lesser extent play against?

 

I hate the low amount of interaction between planes and players, dfaa doesn't disrupt aim/pattern and it's all about dps / automation. Flak seems to be the bane of bad players, yet good players tend to claim it's easy to avoid ( and again, the whole thing is automated, there is no interaction ( like putting up flak in the direction you set up sector reinforcements ). 

 

It feels less immersive to play against, having to ctrl click the most dangerous squad was actually more skill based as what we got now it feels, which doesn't make me happy.

 

Now overall I don't see CV's as entirely broken should be removed entirely or all that, I would like to adjust the whole interaction between planes and targets so it's no longer an automated process. But WG already knew this way before rework and still went ahead, and they are probably right since simple automated game mechanics is about the level I expect general player base to be comfortable with. 

 

I also severely dislike the AA changes to certain ships, I researched Grozovoi because in some games I want to put up a middle finger to enemy CV's.... now it's got laughable AA. Bit like old Yuubari before the ancient IJN 25mm nerf and them giving her DFAA to 'compensate' ( and now even DFAA is useless as it doesn't affect chances of getting hit at all ). Kind of makes me feel like they should be offering me another chance to return her and get my money back ( not that I would, I would keep her in my port as the queen she is now ).

 

Also, with current CVs having noobtube armament with rocket planes, even the worst of the worst can still damage me, while the worst of the worst wouldn't be able to properly conduct a cross drop if their own lives depended on it. 

 

No, REEwork has left me bitter, and submarines might be the final stepping stone to moving on. The whole change has fixed nothing except less BB tears. And that's NOT what I think this game needs. We need lots of those tears, we need it so we can sustain our saline levels. 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

 

I hate the low amount of interaction between planes and players, dfaa doesn't disrupt aim/pattern and it's all about dps / automation. Flak seems to be the bane of bad players, yet good players tend to claim it's easy to avoid ( and again, the whole thing is automated, there is no interaction ( like putting up flak in the direction you set up sector reinforcements ). 

 

It feels less immersive to play against, having to ctrl click the most dangerous squad was actually more skill based as what we got now it feels, which doesn't make me happy.

 

Now overall I don't see CV's as entirely broken should be removed entirely or all that, I would like to adjust the whole interaction between planes and targets so it's no longer an automated process. But WG already knew this way before rework and still went ahead, and they are probably right since simple automated game mechanics is about the level I expect general player base to be comfortable with. 

 

I also severely dislike the AA changes to certain ships, I researched Grozovoi because in some games I want to put up a middle finger to enemy CV's.... now it's got laughable AA. Bit like old Yuubari before the ancient IJN 25mm nerf and them giving her DFAA to 'compensate' ( and now even DFAA is useless as it doesn't affect chances of getting hit at all ). Kind of makes me feel like they should be offering me another chance to return her and get my money back ( not that I would, I would keep her in my port as the queen she is now ).

 

Also, with current CVs having noobtube armament with rocket planes, even the worst of the worst can still damage me, while the worst of the worst wouldn't be able to properly conduct a cross drop if their own lives depended on it. 

 

No, REEwork has left me bitter, and submarines might be the final stepping stone to moving on. The whole change has fixed nothing except less BB tears. And that's NOT what I think this game needs. We need lots of those tears, we need it so we can sustain our saline levels. 

 

 

I'd actually like if the effects of the AA boost (sector prioritizing) would be smaller, but only in a 1/8th circle for instance. In return the cooldown could be much smaller, such that you have to press ~/ O every 2-5 seconds if you want to make full use of your AA potential, AND aim that AA for each boost separately. The overall efficiency definitely shouldnt go up though. 
I do think the current system is a lot better than static AA sector prioritizing though. 

Also, DDs IMO have very significant AA since if you play a DD right you'll beat 80% of CV players easily

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13 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

 

I hate the low amount of interaction between planes and players, dfaa doesn't disrupt aim/pattern and it's all about dps / automation. Flak seems to be the bane of bad players, yet good players tend to claim it's easy to avoid ( and again, the whole thing is automated, there is no interaction ( like putting up flak in the direction you set up sector reinforcements ). 

 

It feels less immersive to play against, having to ctrl click the most dangerous squad was actually more skill based as what we got now it feels, which doesn't make me happy.

 

Now overall I don't see CV's as entirely broken should be removed entirely or all that, I would like to adjust the whole interaction between planes and targets so it's no longer an automated process. But WG already knew this way before rework and still went ahead, and they are probably right since simple automated game mechanics is about the level I expect general player base to be comfortable with. 

 

I also severely dislike the AA changes to certain ships, I researched Grozovoi because in some games I want to put up a middle finger to enemy CV's.... now it's got laughable AA. Bit like old Yuubari before the ancient IJN 25mm nerf and them giving her DFAA to 'compensate' ( and now even DFAA is useless as it doesn't affect chances of getting hit at all ). Kind of makes me feel like they should be offering me another chance to return her and get my money back ( not that I would, I would keep her in my port as the queen she is now ).

 

Also, with current CVs having noobtube armament with rocket planes, even the worst of the worst can still damage me, while the worst of the worst wouldn't be able to properly conduct a cross drop if their own lives depended on it. 

 

No, REEwork has left me bitter, and submarines might be the final stepping stone to moving on. The whole change has fixed nothing except less BB tears. And that's NOT what I think this game needs. We need lots of those tears, we need it so we can sustain our saline levels. 

 

 

while I dont particularly disagree with what you're saying, I wasnt really going for a general critique of the entire system - I was hoping for specific input on how the mentioned ships in particular are doing :Smile_teethhappy:

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I got a bit carried away, I was planning on just writing down my experience with being victim of each specific CV.. but the salt took over having to relive those moments :Smile_hiding:

 

I do notice that I generally fear less from RN CV's, and most from USN CV's ( with big E being the worst to play against  ). IJN besides Hosho I don't think I have a real big issue with, I mean there been games where enemy CV killed me or annoyed the heck out of me but I don't think I ever felt like taking a break in my session just to let some of my frustration a chance to escape in an healthy manner ( Enterprise does this to me, especially since I know the relative skill required to have such an impact om my gaming experience ). 

 

Yeah that's about it. GZ I haven't met many times, but as I recall it has nasty AP bombs and not that good rockets.

 

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14 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

Flak seems to be the bane of bad players, yet good players tend to claim it's easy to avoid ( and again, the whole thing is automated, there is no interaction ( like putting up flak in the direction you set up sector reinforcements ). 

I feel that structure of AA in general is now much better than before. You have to wiggle through the flak wall, but then you have sort of a free reign to do your thing inside the 3.5 km bubble, but severely time-limited due to the increased close range DPS.

 

The thing that can still catch even the really good CV players are overlapping AA auras. You might concentrate on one target, punch through the flak, but then close to target you end up within flak range of another ship. You don't necessarily expect it.

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3 hours ago, Tyrendian89 said:

So... now that the latest AA Reshuffle Kerfuffle has had some time to settle... How are the six silver CVs at T6 & T8 doing these days? How do they feel to play, and to a lesser extent play against? How do they fare when top tier, and when bottom tier? Kind of tempted to give them a go (and have plenty of ressources to jump into any one I might want to), but I neither want to go clubbing with the monstrous new Hosho, nor do I want to make my teams suffer from "useless T10 CV syndrome" in the process:Smile_teethhappy:

 

Things I am not interested in:

  • Blind CV hate
  • Blind CV apologists
  • One-line answers with an extract of stats from maplesyrup. Sorry @ColonelPete :Smile-_tongue:

Ryujo still feels good, as long as squads are maintained and the right targets are picked she can do well in T8 MM.

 

Ranger still feels good also. Same above as Ryujo.

 

Have not got to Furious yet. Or the T8’s. Though close to both Shok and Lex so can update when I get them.

 

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Let's say it how it is. All rn cvs are trash.... Except audacious. Graf and saipan are bad compared to silver and kaga enterprise. (Graf is cool to play tho) with update 8.7 you can have fun in cvs. But only as long you know how to dodge aa burst. Sometimes dodging aa burst is not possible due to the 3.5 km rule. If you are in an attack run  the ship next to you target will throw the aa burst right in your face you can't even dodge when you drop immediately. So that means half of the squadron gone. But whatever this is only fair for the overall ok aa and I can live with it. As for Lexington I personally don't like it. But I love shokaku but I also loved it in 8.6 so that was clear. But then again my stats didn't improve after 8.7 hit so I guess aa is fair now. 

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