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loppantorkel

Experimenting with MM and lose streaks

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1 minute ago, DariusJacek said:

As soon as you posted this on forums, WG knew and they flipped the switch. Simple, next time do it in secret, do not tell anybody, even yourself!!!!  :Smile_trollface:

I'm fine as long they flip me to the good side :Smile_trollface:

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18 minutes ago, principat121 said:

This statement is not true and you know it.

Please, refrain from backing up your case by lies. 

That is TRUE, as I just prove this now, and the only liar here are you. Or you just love to make dumb, fake statements ?!

1 - ship with NO UPGRADES at all

2 - right now, first MM:

So, please refrain to make here statements who show you have no clue what you talk about.

Dd I mention this was THE FIRST MM of the day on this ship ?

Right on start, the MM slap you in to face with a 2+T ? Or the fact this happens, literary, 2 min. after your replay ?...

 

 

World of Warships Screenshot 2019.09.15 - 19.49.12.86.png

World of Warships Screenshot 2019.09.15 - 19.48.40.71.png

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6 minutes ago, SEN_SEN_Channel_Portugue said:

That is TRUE, as I just prove this now, and the only liar here are you. Or you just love to make dumb, fake statements ?!

1 - ship with NO UPGRADES at all

2 - right now, first MM:

So, please refrain to make here statements who show you have no clue what you talk about.

And, is this true for every maiden voyage for every ship?!

 

NO

 

And that is the point. Can it happen? Yes, but not all the time. So your statement, that you always face +2 MM in your first match is a blantant lie and nothing more. 

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1 hour ago, loppantorkel said:

The issue here is that you presume that someone is claiming WG is rigging the game to make the player lose 10 games in a row. Then you ask - why?

 

It could be something like lowering or increasing the hit chance or making citadels occurring less or more often. Why? To make your, or the opposing player experience better?

 

What happens when you've had 10 straight games as low tier? You get 'premium MM' as high tier. Some poor bastard will have to take your place as low tier instead. The objective isn't to screw the bastard over, but to give you better MM for one game or so.

 

MM isn't absolutely Random, there a lots of rules governing which teams you end up in. This doesn't mean WG is conspiring against anyone.

How does it make the game experience better when they mess with dispersion? The changes would be too small to be noticed.

And who gets these changes. There are enough people good enough without problems. And there are enough bad players who did not seem to get better. Who gets the help and why?

 

The MM changes were introduced in the recent patch. No need to speculate.

1 hour ago, Chiledip said:

I am not here to speculate about things that could happen. I am not suggesting that WG is rigging the game in this way or that way. I do not have the data that they have and don't know how they are interpretting that to make the game as profitable as it can be. All I know is that they are a company and like all companies profit and sustainability is likely to be king. Having blind trust in companies to be fair is probably not a good idea. Even companies who are regulated are found to be manipulating things and unregulated industry is often the wild west (like the csgo gambling).

 

I am talking in a general way. WG is not regulated and as far as I know the algorithms used cannot be verified as provably fair. If i am to use Occam's Razor I would come to a different conclusion to what you have. I would find it very hard to believe that WG wouldn't use every legal means at their disposal to maximise profits like every other large company does. They would have to be an exception to the rule if they didn't.

You can say that about everything and everyone. You can see thiefs and murderers behind any corner and any friend. Feel free to live like that. :Smile_great:

As always the basic question is: What does WG gain and how do they do it. If you cannot answer the question, then it is not happening.

45 minutes ago, Altsak said:

The interesting question is, why doesn't it follow the standard normal distribution?

Because parameters like Divisions and Trolls go into it.

Divisions win more than a single player, therefore improving the WR above the level a player could achieve alone.

Trolls that play against their team are rare, but it happens. They basicly make any match a 11v12 or even 11vs13, if they teamkill on purpose.

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25 minutes ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

Hi all,

 

 

Did you run "old" "Matchmaking monitor" that list only WinRate in current ship or new BETA "Matchmaking Monitor" that lists all stats?

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

Running the new one, which I assume has accurate stats. 

I would say, despite saying "damage isn't everything" on another post elsewhere, that a more reliable indicator does seem to be average damage, when your team's Kremlin has 61% win rate but only 44k avg damage then you start to think.

Average base XP also seems to bear little relation at times.

I think it only proves that there is no perfect method of working out a balanced MM in every match, there are so many variables and the fact we are all human impacts on that hugely.  I can evidence that a few days ago in Edinburgh, I'm grinding up to Mino in case it wasn't apparent, and in 6 consecutive matches 151k, 138k, 2k, 160k, 0k,153k.  I didn't change my tactics in any way, I like to be aggressive, and on the whole it was working but I'm only human and sometimes a few people forget that about random players.

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5 minutes ago, principat121 said:

And, is this true for every maiden voyage for every ship?!

 

NO

 

And that is the point. Can it happen? Yes, but not all the time. So your statement, that you always face +2 MM in your first match is a blantant lie and nothing more. 

I put the proof in front of your eyes, and you keep regurgitating BS .  Are no protections for STOCK ships on first games. Never was. You will face 2+Tiers ,  on your stock ship.

You do keep your horse eye googles and only see the carrot on front of your nose.

And have some L2R lessons,  when something like this happen 8-9 times in each 10 occasions, only a hypocrite like you will argue here with sentences like "Yes, but not all the time".

 

 

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49 minutes ago, SEN_SEN_Channel_Portugue said:

A thing who was never addressed by WG is the horrible situations on high tiers ( +T7) when one enter a MM in his FIRST GAME in that ship, with NO UPGRADES AT ALL, that is, STOCK, and will always face ships 2 Tiers upper , fully upgraded.

Looks like you are on the WG sh!t list. :Smile_trollface:

My first game in Vauquelin, stock:

shot-19_09.15_21_14.59-0992.thumb.jpg.1f2a4f7dfa15c9e8c394f4b37e45b11e.jpg

+1 MM

 

And since you see conspiracies everywhere:

1837837438_shot-26_06.15_12_25.37-0269Results.thumb.jpg.7c048883c4f5c2944dca395ffdd9b8e9.jpg

https://wows-numbers.com/player/529243319,ColonelPete/

 

And it was a good one!

Btw. these stats are only valid today. Will play another game in here on 16.09.2019.

 

 

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+1 for your self criticism OP. Picked the game up-ish and losing my way through the T6 Ru BB. Battle rust compensated I somehow manage to get in the top 5 of nearly all matches. IIRC I've been out tiered in 9/10 matches. About 1 or 2 in an evenly playfield: T5-6 main. Now having said that I don't mind being uptiered at all: I'll adapt and all the more XP a d income for me: one heavy HE salvo on T8 dd's will make me a handsome profit. So I don't really get the problem. 

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14 minutes ago, SEN_SEN_Channel_Portugue said:

And have some L2R lessons

No. And the opposite is true, you have to learn what you are writing. You stated that you have to face +2MM in every maiden voyage in every (stock) ship. And this is just not true. Period. 

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6 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

You can say that about everything and everyone. You can see thiefs and murderers behind any corner and any friend. Feel free to live like that. :Smile_great:

As always the basic question is: What does WG gain and how do they do it. If you cannot answer the question, then it is not happening.

 

Are you saying that technology companies are not known to use data almost entirely influence product design to maximise profit? Are you saying that they don't notoriously  use data to offer a tailored personalised experience to users to maximise profit.  The numbers lead design and the number one number is profit. Player retention and everything else will be closely analysed, you know it will. Fairness will not even be a metric. Maybe "perception of unfairness" may well be.

 

Wg probably know our in-game habits individually better than we do. That's their job. Customer insight is always a strength in the sector that they work in. So you are saying that they don't leverage that info? C'mon please, of course they do. Their overt design methodology is wholly data driven, do you think they get all moral or something when it comes to the profitability metrics?

 

First post that I have read of yours for years as you are 1 of 2 people on my block list. Genuinely never seen you say anything that is not in defence of WG, I guess that didn't change. 

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Hello. I'm back. I finished the experiment too! Against my better judgement I kept playing my Bismarck today. 

End result 17 games 52.94% winrate. I had a lot of losses in a row then a lot of wins in a row. I was going to play 20 battles, but I can't take any more of this.  
In conclusion:
I don't know what the conclusion of this experiment is, but I know one thing, loosing a lot of games in a row and keep playing is unpleasant. 

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1 minute ago, Chiledip said:

Are you saying that technology companies are not known to use data almost entirely influence product design to maximise profit? Are you saying that they don't notoriously  use data to offer a tailored personalised experience to users to maximise profit.

I know how they do it and how they earn the money. And that is not cheating.

In the case of WG I do not. Therefore I ask you AGAIN: How do they do it.

 

It is not like WG is showing us tailor made commercials or premium ships get personalised ads to convince you to buy them (apart from that having nothing to with battles).

And your post makes it clear that you are just another conspiracy theoriest, that has NOTHING substantial to offer and therefore feels the need for personal attacks as a last resort.

You are making it too easy for me :Smile_great:

1 minute ago, LoveYouTooBuddy said:

I don't know what the conclusion of this experiment is, but I know one thing, loosing a lot of games in a row and keep playing is unpleasant. 

And that is what keeps prolonging losing streaks. The worse your mood, the worse you play. And the more you play, the more tired you get.

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19 minutes ago, principat121 said:

No. And the opposite is true, you have to learn what you are writing. You stated that you have to face +2MM in every maiden voyage in every (stock) ship. And this is just not true. Period. 

If I put only one word "almost" here::

"(almost)  always face +2 MM in your first match", THEN MY POST PASS YOUR STANDARD of hypocrisy ?

"...on high tiers ( +T7) when one enter a MM in his FIRST GAME in that ship, ..."

Told you have some L2R issues, dude.

You "invent" things here then you try to falsely stick your BS to me. Probably better open a dictionary and read about the meaning of "quotation" - you know, that thing you can easy do here with copy/paste function ?

 

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1 hour ago, ColonelPete said:

Looks like you are on the WG sh!t list. :Smile_trollface:

My first game in Vauquelin, stock:

 

+1 MM

 

And since you see conspiracies everywhere:

 

https://wows-numbers.com/player/529243319,ColonelPete/

 

And it was a good one!

Btw. these stats are only valid today. Will play another game in here on 16.09.2019.

 

 

You play dumb here ?! I am amazed, I was thinking someone like you will already know dds are usually less up-tiered than bbs !

Post here your first MM in a stock bb , T6, T7 or upper, your choice.   Can you do that ?

And are you kind to show if your dd was stock ? Because you are the kind who by-pass the grind with FXP,  that's why, probably, you avoided putting here an image of your STOCK ship, instead you post a statistic who show NOTHING about upgrades in your ship.  I BET you have all the upgrades !

PS - my SECOND game of the day on that stock ship. Sure as hell, against T8 again. Just saying...

And the third... sure against T8, again. First 3 games, in a row, with same STOCK ship, vs T8. Just a coincidence, sure :cap_yes:

World of Warships Screenshot 2019.09.15 - 21.20.56.81.png

World of Warships Screenshot 2019.09.15 - 21.54.24.09.png

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7 minutes ago, GarrusBrutus said:

if i could influence MM in my favour by sailing stock ships then I would. :Smile_teethhappy: But obviously you cant. So maybe start to think about using your free xp to unlock modules once you grind a new ship? @SEN_SEN_Channel_Portugue

I use my  FXP to buy some gold ships. So, I need to conserve that. More, I kind of "like" to learn the ship, all the way, from worst to the best. Even when I was sitting on a pile of 2 millions FXP, I do not use a single one to "bypass" a ship, or even an upgrade.

I suffered under old Colorado, years ago, when Colorado was a real pain. Did the same with old Izumo.

I am not a "stats fan-boy" like some kids here, I play because I enjoy the ships, that's all, I do not care if some snob who bought his way trough "bad ships" via FXP, in order to avoid "loosing stats", will come here to display his numbers. So, I will gather all the FXP possible to get the FXP ships, and thanks WG they are always more...

 

" if i could influence MM in my favour by sailing stock ships then I would. " - who talk about that ?!

I was just arguing to have an MM  LESS aggressive, less unfair,  not "in your favor" !  We all know the MM is unfair, nobody argued about that, right ? But maybe will be better IF the stock ships , at least a couple of games, are not smashed immediately facing fully upgraded ships, (most of the times) 2 Tiers upper.

Is a difference, you know, between "less unfair" and "in my advantage". In my view, A BIG one.

 

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I got an epiphany! (or a stroke...) read only if you have tin foil hat on or drunk or both.

Why they make you lose a lot? How do they profit from it??

Spoiler

 

I got it! I was just just resting a bit from all the games I played and suddenly everything was clear as day!

WG makes you lose a lot, when the server use too much power and need to be cooled down. So they chose a bunch of players and make them lose again and again and again.. So you get frustrated, stop playing the game and they can bring the CPU temperature under control. 

And that's why they manipulate the MM and how WG is saving money on buying new servers.

 

 
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14 minutes ago, SEN_SEN_Channel_Portugue said:

I use my  FXP to buy some gold ships. So, I need to conserve that.

That is your choice. You could use it to avoid having to sail stock ships but you chose not to.

14 minutes ago, SEN_SEN_Channel_Portugue said:

who talk about that ?!

Indirectly you did by talking about protected matchmaking for stock ships. That will never happen because people can rig MM in their favour by always playing stock ships.

14 minutes ago, SEN_SEN_Channel_Portugue said:

We all know the MM is unfair, nobody argued about that, right ?

Nobody argued about that? That is the whole point of this thread. Players feel matchmaking is unfair. But it isnt.

 

Players who say matchmaking is unfair want this:

image.png.988518f0d2f8847b325faf139f494edb.png

Now this isnt fair, it is equality. 

This is fair:

image.png.29850c40fb3b858e72c9cba7ce2eaf3c.png

 

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6 minutes ago, LoveYouTooBuddy said:

So they chose a bunch of players and make them lose again and again and again.

How can Wargaming make sure that these players loses their matches?! 

The single player is only one in a team of twelve.

How can Wargaming make sure that you even lose, when there are eleven further players?

And what happens when the player designated to losing, goes afk from the start of the match?! Will Wargaming still manipulating the other 11 to lose this game, no matter their effort?!

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8 minutes ago, principat121 said:

How can Wargaming make sure that these players loses their matches?! 

The single player is only one in a team of twelve.

How can Wargaming make sure that you even lose, when there are eleven further players?

And what happens when the player designated to losing, goes afk from the start of the match?! Will Wargaming still manipulating the other 11 to lose this game, no matter their effort?!

They put all of them in one team! So the team is designed to lose! They give you bad RNG and make your shots go left and right and put the the testing homing torpedoes on the red dds... obvious stuff like that..

 

 

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39 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

I know how they do it and how they earn the money. And that is not cheating.

In the case of WG I do not. Therefore I ask you AGAIN: How do they do it.

 

It is not like WG is showing us tailor made commercials or premium ships get personalised ads to convince you to buy them (apart from that having nothing to with battles).

And your post makes it clear that you are just another conspiracy theoriest, that has NOTHING substantial to offer and therefore feels the need for personal attacks as a last resort.

You are making it too easy for me :Smile_great:

It always has been easy for you Colonel,or should i say simple. 

 

There is no thought in what you do. You enter a discussion on the side of WG every time and muddy the water. Engaging in conversation with you is pointless, maybe you are AI or something. You will just derail everything that you don't like because thats what you are programmed to do.

 

No more replies from me to you as you genuinely give me the creeps and remain blocked.

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This thread is funny.

 

People actually believing that Wargaming is manipulating the matchmaker, as well as the match itself, to make some players win or lose?

How are those players chosen? What if the team WG decided to win refuses to play? What does Wargaming gain from all this effort except maybe frustrated players leaving the game?

 

The Wierd Al video linked above truly is fitting.

 

Oh and... there is a pinned thread for MM discussions already

 

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8 minutes ago, Chiledip said:

It always has been easy for you Colonel,or should i say simple. 

 

There is no thought in what you do. You enter a discussion on the side of WG every time and muddy the water. Engaging in conversation with you is pointless, maybe you are AI or something. You will just derail everything that you don't like because thats what you are programmed to do.

 

No more replies from me to you as you genuinely give me the creeps and remain blocked.

That rubbish you just wrote is called an argumentum ad hominem

Not surprising at all... 

:Smile_sceptic:

 

 

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@GarrusBrutus

 

I choose  to use the FXP, man , for FXP ships, because , like  I said, I do NOT care about stats. Also, I think one needs to "learn" how a ship behave with/without upgrades.

" people can rig MM in their favour by always playing stock ships. " - I am sorry,  this is wrong, man,  that is easily avoidable - are other games where this is not possible, you know why ?

 

Once you get the points to buy the upgrades (that is, 2-3 5 games etc) - is up to you to MOUNT OR NOT those upgrades ! The system KNOW what points you have, so, with or without MOUNTED upgrades, you will be treated the same.

Try to play without upgrades, but with millions of XP  points on that ship - the system will give you a FULL UPGRADED ship treatment.

Do that with no XP points on that ship, the system avoid a couple of games to get up tiered more that 1+ Tier. Once that ship reach XP for first upgrade, the "protection" is over.

 

As you can see, it is NOT POSSIBLE to manipulate the system. Not so hard to do. Reason why others do this. And I think the server population is high enough to offer such a bit of relieve, for a couple of games...

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