Cleveland vs Pensacola

[dblkion]

Why does the pensa loses 1v1 ?

[beercrazy]

it doesn't with me

the Pensacola can lay down some serious hits on a Cleveland and if you are losing to a Cleveland then you need to start and move and dodge more to put the Cleveland players aim off

 

[dblkion]

we were doing full broadside from around 6km and he obliterated me in 3 salvo where I didnt even manage to take half his hp

[ThatOneDidntGoIn]

The Pensacola should hit harder at close range but the rate of fire of the Cleveland is the key as the Pensacola blows up if it gets hit by a flying fish let alone a shell. It also needs its upgrades. It's absolutely horrible at stock and at range where as the Cleveland can pump out shells like a machine gun. If you fire in sequence with just a small gap between shells you can lay down a constant barrage.

[dblkion]

Just pointing out how bad the balance between ships is atm

[xCaptainObviousx]

There was some talk about the Cleveland being moved to t7 or t8, but that might just have been the usual forum speculation.

[2ndaryBattleTank]

I don't know, but it just seems that a salvo from the Cleveland tends to do a lot more damage against a Pensacola than the other way around. If you,playing the Pensy, hit like 6 shells at 10 km range (that is a pretty well aimed salvo) and do a few 100 HP damage and then get hit in return for a few 1000, and this repeats itself over and over, it is no wonder that a Cleveland tends to win easily. Somehow these 203 mm armed cruisers (not just the Pensacola) get way too many low damage rolls to really stand a chance. Or the Cleveland is exceptionally sturdy.

 

Moving the Cleveland up a tier or 2 won't change much I think. The likely replacement at tier VI would probably be very similarly armed. The Americans had a range of light cruiser classes all derived from the Brooklyn-class, the Clevelands being just one of them. Given the current game mechanics it just seems that 152mm simply beats 203mm in a cruiser 1v1. This is not necessarily bad, the heavier guns do have their worth against BBs, so you could argue that  heavy and light cruisers just have different specializations. At the moment though this leaves the Cleveland without a real competitor, except perhaps for the stock 155mm armed Mogami (which seems much more vulnerable though).

[Pete_SB]

Due to the Washington treaty, a lot of cruisers were built with 6 inch guns rather than 8 inch. This put them in the category of light cruisers rather than heavy.

The British and Japanese planned that they could, if hostilities broke out, could simply drop in double 8 inch turrets to replace the triple 6 inch.

In the end the Japanese did replace their 6 inch triples, but, the British found their 6 inch triples to be far more effective than the 8 inch in terms of accuracy and dpm, so they kept them and all cruisers used the 6 inch. "HMS Belfast"

In terms of range and penetration there wasn't much difference, but the big difference was a 6 inch shell could be manhandled by a single person and an 8 inch couldn't.

[Hidey0shi]

It's exactly the same issue with Fuso and Nagato, funnily enough tier 6 and 7 respectively, just like Cleveland and Pensacola. You move up a tier and feel like you sail a weaker ship, that's not how it should be. Yes, Nagato has more hp, but a lot less firepower in both raw dpm and accuracy.

 

Hopefuly this is just a balance issue that is going to get tweaked in the future.

[ThatOneDidntGoIn]

For those who have played both, have a look at your stats and see what your accuracy and average damage is.

Cleveland 23% 26,824 damage

Pepsicola 28% 16,997 damage

 

That's quite a significant difference in average damage. Even my Phoenix (3 tiers lower than the Pepsi) was doing an average of 22,000 damage.

[Achatius]

Stock Pensacola is worse in any major stat. I guess Pensacola is one of WG's moneymakers, as in people buy gold to convert free xp for a skip. WoT has a lot of tanks that are like this, just worse than anything it faces, even it's predecessor

[OldGrandad]

The Pepsi will rule at greater distances and at top upgrade is not all bad. Trick is to keep the Cleveland at 'arms' length when in battle as well aimed shots from the Pepsi will tear a Cleveland to shreds. Had no idea of my stats with both ships until saidor piqued my interest and I was a little surprised as to how close they are;

 

Cleveland ave dmg - 39000

Pensacola ave dmg - 38000

 

But, I have played 50% more battles in the Cleveland so it still remains in front.

 

I was concerned about the Pepsi once I had got the Cleveland as so many decried how poor she was but once upgraded and used well she could deal a whole world of hurt. A well aimed salvo will take half a Mogamis health with ease for instance, anyway I like her 

[JapLance]

For those who have played both, have a look at your stats and see what your accuracy and average damage is.

Cleveland 23% 26,824 damage

Pepsicola 28% 16,997 damage

 

 

That's quite a significant difference in average damage. Even my Phoenix (3 tiers lower than the Pepsi) was doing an average of 22,000 damage.

 

Cleveland: 54 battles, 24% Accuracy, 40680 average damage,1242 average XP

Pensacola: 30 battles, 25% Accuracy, 35295 average damage, 1450 average XP

 

Not so much difference, taking into account that my captain in Pensacola is less experienced than Cleveland's.

 

I met a Pensacola 1on1 yesterday with my Cleveland, and I finally was the one afloat, but just barely (an Omaha sunk me a bit later after a couple of salvoes). Pensacola 8 inchers do a lot of damage to a Cleveland.

[utaker]

 

Cleveland: 54 battles, 24% Accuracy, 40680 average damage,1242 average XP

Pensacola: 30 battles, 25% Accuracy, 35295 average damage, 1450 average XP

 

Not so much difference, taking into account that my captain in Pensacola is less experienced than Cleveland's.

 

I met a Pensacola 1on1 yesterday with my Cleveland, and I finally was the one afloat, but just barely (an Omaha sunk me a bit later after a couple of salvoes). Pensacola 8 inchers do a lot of damage to a Cleveland.

 

Hello, this may come off as a bit silly, but could you please tell me where can I view such stats? In the Profile section of the game I only seem to have a Summary (win loss ration across the board, no specific ships) and Service Record containing the level up unlocks,

 

Thank you in advance.

[Darth_Glorious]

The key is keeping the distance, the 8 inches guns hit hard in long range.

the pensacola is less protected than the cleveland so you cannot win a knife fighting with the cleveland.

In long range fight, the better gun and the better manoeuvrability of Pensacola (the Pensa turns faster and is smaller than a cleveland) make it a headache for cleveland guns.

When I unlocked the pensacola, I'm also very disappointed, but now I figured out how to play it efficiently.

[WhoCares01]

 

Hello, this may come off as a bit silly, but could you please tell me where can I view such stats? In the Profile section of the game I only seem to have a Summary (win loss ration across the board, no specific ships) and Service Record containing the level up unlocks,

 

Thank you in advance.

 

- go to the main page, e.g. by the "Portal" link close to the upper left of this forum page

- klick on your account name in the upper right and select "My Profile"

[daki]

Cleveland: 33.315 avg dmg, 32% accuracy

Pensacola: 37.560 avg dmg, 32% accuracy

 

But in Cleveland I have a much better WR (54% vs. 47%) - I did play much more games in Cleveland though so I would assume that the WR difference would not be that high in the end.

What I noticed (maybe subjective), is more one-salvoed enemies by Pensacola than by Cleveland. Some of the shell groupings were just  - beautiful

 

[xBamBamx]

I think the devs know clevegeland is OP and the penisacola is not - that's the point of Beta to iron out these discrepencies - they will be rebalanced as will all the others in their own ways, will be interesting to see what the new armour and HE shells bring.

[beercrazy]

For those who have played both, have a look at your stats and see what your accuracy and average damage is.

Cleveland 23% 26,824 damage

Pepsicola 28% 16,997 damage

 

 

That's quite a significant difference in average damage. Even my Phoenix (3 tiers lower than the Pepsi) was doing an average of 22,000 damage.

 

 

mine are:

Cleveland 27% 35200

pensicola 27% 28406

 

 

that's a massive difference and it should be the other way around

maybe it was just me but I felt the pensicola was doing better than the Cleveland but it may be because it fires slower so you take more time to watch the hits and see they hit for slightly more than the Cleveland

[Mithrandyr]

I've included the previous tiers as well, except for the Phoenix (only 8 battles) just to give a more complete picture.

 

St. Louis: 96 battles; Hit performance 35%; average damage: 26,673; Winrate 58%

Omaha: 47 battles; Hit performance 32%; average damage: 33,680; Winrate 42%

Cleveland: 31 battles; Hit performance 22%; average damage: 31,837; Winrate 38%

Pensacola: 11 battles; Hit performance 27%; average damage: 32,235; Winrate 54%

 

In the limited number of battles I've fought with these cruisers I've found the Pensacola to be quite effective and enjoyable, as long as it keeps its distance.

 

 

 

[utaker]

 

- go to the main page, e.g. by the "Portal" link close to the upper left of this forum page

- klick on your account name in the upper right and select "My Profile"

 

Thanks, that was very helpful. 

 

As for the debate on hand, I feel that the Cleveland is a superior ship to the Pensacola. The Cleveland's armor can reach up to 127 mm thickness, compared to the pathetic 76 mm that the Pensacola has to offer. The HP of both ships is roughly similar, the Cleveland having 35.2k HP, while the Pensacola has 34.3k HP, however, when we factor in the armor on these ships, it becomes quite apparent that when it comes to passive protection, the Cleveland wins by a long shot.

 

The speed and maneuverability of these ships is roughly on par, both ships topping out at a top speed of 33 knots. As a personal note, I feel that the Cleveland is slightly more maneuverable, however I have no data to back this claim. 

 

The armaments on the two ships is what sets them apart. For starters, the maximum firing range of the two ships is 14.6 km for the Cleveland and 15.7 km for the Pensacola. To simply things, the Cleveland's guns have a high rate of fire and lower alpha damage (7.5 shots per minute, 26700 maximum potential damage at 3560 damage per AP shell), while the Pensacola's guns have a much slower rate of fire, but substantially higher alpha damage (4 shots per minute, 20280 maximum potential damage at 5070 damage per AP shell). In a 1 v 1 scenario, in ideal circumstances, the Pensacola could just kite (firing at the target while staying out of the targets range) the Cleveland, considering it's guns have a longer range and the maximum speed and maneuverability of the ships is basically identical. In this scenario, the Cleveland could not land a single shot, however, this scenario is unlikely to happen because the Cleveland has superior concealment. 

 

The Cleveland is visible from the surface at a range of 13.3 km, while the Pensacola can be spotted from 15.7 km, well within the Cleveland firing range, thus nullifying the Pensacola's firing range advantage. If we discount RNG (lets do this for the sake of argument) and the Cleveland is not spotted by a scout plane in this 1 v 1 scenario, the ensuing battle would be close, however, it is my personal opinion, that the Cleveland would win simply because its surviveability is significantly higher with more armor and HP. The Pensacola would be unable to utilize it's firing range advantage due to the combination of the Concealment rating and the identical maximum speeds these two ships are capable of achieving.

 

In conclusion, the Cleveland possesses greater protection (more armor and HP), equal speed and maneuverability, shorter range and alpha damage and higher concealment compared to the Pensacola. While looking at this information, it is hard to see why the Pensacola could be seen as anything more then a sidegrade to the Cleveland. 

 

My 2 cents.

[OVanBruce]

You've got to be 3 times better player to take on a Cleveland and win consistently on a Pensacola or an Aoba. Anything overpens at close quarters, shells don't pen on mid ranges it and it's agile enough to dodge your shots on long ranges.

 

Its only weak point are her guns. If you point just below it with AP they'll allways get knocked out so do that when on close quarters. Beware becaue the [edited] will try to ram you.

[Historynerd]

There are a lot of people around here who agree that the Cleveland is OP, and I concur with them.

 

Anyway, if you have a 1940s light cruiser on one side and then the very first American heavy cruiser on the another, is it surprising that the former can pulverize the latter? Mysteries of the cruiser line...

 

That being said, the Pensacola with her harder hitting guns has more chance to citadel the Cleveland I think, even at long range. I do like her, even though the whole business with all the confusion is a little bit frustrating...

[mtm78]

Pensacola:

 

47 battles 61% wr 31% hit ratio - avg dmg 41.655

 

Cleveland

 

66 battles 51% wr 27% hit ratio - avg dmg 38.023

 

The Pensacola is not a bad ship imo, Though my Cleveland stats are lower then they could be because I tend to be more aggressive in her compared to Pepsi. 

 

1 vs 1 comparisons left aside, I would be surprised if not more if not most people would actually be getting higher avg. dmg in their Pensacola's. 

 

Edit: ow btw someone mentioned wr in a post above not sure who it was but just to illustrate how meaningless wr is right now I included my wr above. If going from that metric, Pensacola is OP compared to Cleveland ( well for me at least ).

[Hummus]

Cleveland : 105 battles, 55% WR, 31% hit ratio - avg dmg 47.116

Pensacola : 73 battles, 42% WR, 35% hit ratio - avg dmg 37.283

 

The Cleveland is a monster ! and just tears through just about anything it meets. The Pepsi is not without merits, but a lot trickier to play and no where near as OP as the Cleveland.

 

1 vs 1 comparisons left aside, I would be surprised if not more if not most people would actually be getting higher avg. dmg in their Pensacola's. 

The shear amount of shots you can pump out in a Cleveland means it will do more dmg on average. In the Pepsi you have to disengage when you miss a salvo... in the Cleveland you make other people disengage or take evasive action, while you just keep pumping out the dps. The DPM potential between these ships is heavily in favor of the Cleveland.

 

The sad state of the US cruisers atm is that the Cleveland has the second highest DPM potential of the tree, only the Des Moines does more dmg. ( And BOY does it do dmg !! )

After the Cleveland you only go down in DPM potential   The Pepsi trades 12 fast guns for 10 slow ones ... the New Orleans looses a gun for no extra reload speed, the Baltimore stays at 9 but has a (tiny) reload loss .... and then at tier 10 you go all godlike with the Des Moines.