About WoW

[TungstenHitman]

Hi guys,

 

Big WoT player and was thinking of trying out WoW too but would just like to ask a few questions. Obviously it's probably very hard to compare tanks to ships because ones land based and small and the other is sea based and large but maybe you can try anyway.

 

1. So in WoT you have a 10 tier system same as here. Is tier 5 still the comfort tier like in WoT where a player can play respectably decent ships and about the best tier to grind credits or is that all different in WoW?

 

2. In WoT probably the most toxic class is SPG, is there a class of tank that bums out gameplay with the same level broken redline hard hitting attributes in WoW?

 

3. I see that in WoW there are classes of ships. Do these fulfill roles something similar to WoT in the sense that there are light, medium and heavy tanks, only with ships?

 

4. Are all classes of ships capable of defeating all other tier and classes of ships it will encounter? I.E. can the smallest lightly armored bottom tier class of ship in a battle defeat the strongest heavily armored top tier ship in that battle?

 

5. Nations. So in WoT the Russian tanks tend to be the best armored, speed, rng tanks with other nations having pro's and cons. Certainly there are nations and even entire lines that can be considered noob friendly and a good place to start learning the game from. So in WoT, I like to play medium tanks with good accurate guns, pen, view range and camo but sacrificing armor. Which nation, class and tier would you guys recommend to new player that has bags of WoT experience(if that counts for anything in WoW) and would like to play the equivalent of medium tanks with good guns that sacrifice armor in favor of speed and firepower?

 

6. In regards to WoT and WoW. Are there any similarities in gameplay or is it pretty much a totally different playstyle?

 

7. How is the MM balanced by comparison to WoT? Is it more fair or more punishing?

 

Thanks all, sorry about the typos if any(there's always typos with me))

[BattleshipGunner]

Welcome to the game!

 

First of all,

CV means Aircraft carrier

CA means heavy cruiser

CL means light cruiser

BB means battleship

DD means destroyer

 

About tier 5. It's (in my opinion) a kind of comfortable place with some pretty good ships such as Emile Bertin and Furataka also the König is a fun tier 5 BB in my opinion. But they start to see +2 tiers so they fight against tier 7s (tier 4, 3, 2 have protected match making so they only ever see +1 tier)

 

I'd say (at least in my experience) that any class is capable to defeat another class. DDs have torpedoes to heavily damage anything but sacrifice health and armour. BBs have big guns and heavy armour but sacrifice manoeuvrability and stealth.

CL/CA are the DPM (damage per minute) ships with bigger guns than DDs but smaller than BBs. CA/CL have fast rate of fire and fast turret traverse but sort of sacrifice armour (at high tiers The German cruiser s get a turtleback armour scheme, they are not invincible but pretty good armour for a cruiser) the Russian CLs get poor armour but in return get amazing gun power.

 

Finally,

Note: I am definitely not a 'pro' at this game.

23 minutes ago, TungstenHitman said:

I like to play medium tanks with good accurate guns, pen, view range and camo but sacrificing armor. Which nation, class and tier would you guys recommend to new player

Well, I've got only to tier 6 in Russian CLs so I not got loads of experience but if you are willing to sacrifice armour for view range and accurate guns then I would suggest the Russian CLs, they have no problems with hitting targets at range because of their shell velocity and at tier 5 (I think) and most of the tiers after that the Russian CLs get a spotter plane to increase their view range for a duration of time.

 

[Egoleter]

First of all: I didn't play world of tanks, so I'll explain things the way they are in WoWs and not how they are different from WoT.

 

32 minutes ago, TungstenHitman said:

1. So in WoT you have a 10 tier system same as here. Is tier 5 still the comfort tier like in WoT where a player can play respectably decent ships and about the best tier to grind credits or is that all different in WoW?

In WoWs you have a somewhat protected comfort zone on tiers I to IV. On those tiers you are only matched +/-1 tiers against other ships.

Once you reach tier V or higher you'll get matched +/-2 tiers. Though tier V itself is for obvious reasons +2/-1, so that you can't see T-III ships.

 

The ships themself are pretty good and fun to play on T-V. But most of the community would tell you that the sweet spot is T-VII. You can earn good credits there and will meet a good variety of ships.

 

32 minutes ago, TungstenHitman said:

2. In WoT probably the most toxic class is SPG, is there a class of tank that bums out gameplay with the same level broken redline hard hitting attributes in WoW? 

The most hated class is probably the aircraft carrier. I'll not comment on that. Any toxic comment posted for someone playing a carrier is a problem of the one who made the comment, not the CV player. Wargaming wants that class in the game, so if you like them or hate them doesn't matter. Just accept that they are there and that some players love them.

 

32 minutes ago, TungstenHitman said:

3. I see that in WoW there are classes of ships. Do these fulfill roles something similar to WoT in the sense that there are light, medium and heavy tanks, only with ships?

Destroyers (DD) are mostly fast, maneuverable, and stealthy ships. They have low caliber guns and most of them have decent torpedos that they can use against you without you even knowing they are there. Some think that DDs are nothing more then their frontline spotters but that is far from the truth. There are gunboat and torpedo DD lines, as well as some that perform inbetween those two. Gun precision is very good.

 

Battleships (BB) have big guns, lots of armor, and are slow to turn. They can take a pounding and dish out lots of damage. They are seen from large distances, though some are as stealthy as a cruiser. Some BBs are slow while others are rather fast. Gun precision is poor.

 

Cruisers (CL/CA) are sitting between DDs and BBs. There is a large variety of them. Ranging from light cruisers with small caliber guns but good concealment, to large cruisers with almost battleship guns as well as their detectability. Depending on the ship they can do a lot of things adequatly or some few very good. Gun precision is average.

 

Aircraft Carriers (CV) play differently from other classes. You play the airplanes most of the times while your ship moves on autopilot. They recieved a major rework at the start of the year and still recieve smaller changes to their gameplay from time to time due to that to adjust their balance. Your planes are your weapons.

 

32 minutes ago, TungstenHitman said:

4. Are all classes of ships capable of defeating all other tier and classes of ships it will encounter? I.E. can the smallest lightly armored bottom tier class of ship in a battle defeat the strongest heavily armored top tier ship in that battle?

As usual a lot depends on the players involved. If given equal skill and equal class the higher tier ship should come out on top. DDs are meant to counter BBs, BBs are meant to counter CL/CA, and CL/CA are meant to counter DDs. CVs are outside this rock paper squissor model but can be defeated by any of the three classes and they can defeat any of them. Not all ships in their class are the same. Some CL play more like a DD. Some BBs play more like a cruiser. Some DDs need to be played like small cruisers.

 

32 minutes ago, TungstenHitman said:

5. Nations. So in WoT the Russian tanks tend to be the best armored, speed, rng tanks with other nations having pro's and cons. Certainly there are nations and even entire lines that can be considered noob friendly and a good place to start learning the game from. So in WoT, I like to play medium tanks with good accurate guns, pen, view range and camo but sacrificing armor. Which nation, class and tier would you guys recommend to new player that has bags of WoT experience(if that counts for anything in WoW) and would like to play the equivalent of medium tanks with good guns that sacrifice armor in favor of speed and firepower?

I wouldn't say there is one nation to learn them all. There is to much variety in ships.

The US and japanese BBs are probably the best starting point for battleships. They teach you a lot about the class in general.

For cruisers I'd probably suggest the japanese ones, though russian cruisers might work well as a starting point too.

For DDs it becomes more difficult. I'd probably start with the british or the german ones, as they are well rounded ships that don't necessarily excell at anything.

 

If you are now interested in trying the game, I could provide you with a referal link and a new player bonus code for some goodies, like WoWs premium time and some low to midtier premium ships. I'd send that to you on request via PM.

[Miessa3]

1 hour ago, TungstenHitman said:

Hi guys,

Hi welcome on the forum!

1 hour ago, TungstenHitman said:

Big WoT player and was thinking of trying out WoW too but would just like to ask a few questions. Obviously it's probably very hard to compare tanks to ships because ones land based and small and the other is sea based and large but maybe you can try anyway.

 

1. So in WoT you have a 10 tier system same as here. Is tier 5 still the comfort tier like in WoT where a player can play respectably decent ships and about the best tier to grind credits or is that all different in WoW?

Actualy Tier V is the first Tier where things get uncomfortable because it's the first with +2 Matchmaking meeting Tier VII most of the time due to the way the MM works. Tier I-IV are the beginner Tiers and made to be comfortable. Above that there is only Tier VII and Tier X which are favourable places to be due to how the MM works. Tier X can be rather stressful though because mistakes usually get punished more often than not and lead to way faster trips back to the port than on lower Tiers. Most will say Tier VII (7) is the place to be comfortable with a big variety of interesting ships.

1 hour ago, TungstenHitman said:

2. In WoT probably the most toxic class is SPG, is there a class of tank that bums out gameplay with the same level broken redline hard hitting attributes in WoW?

Most say the Carrier is the same as the arty in WoT. While the hate for cv comes from the same problem (them doing damage to you while you can't shoot their shiphull most of the time) they are fundamently different actualy. Unlike arty in WoT the carrier gets less effective the further away he is from the action. (longer flight times - although this was lessened with the rework due to way faster planes). CVs also need to somewhat take care of their planes which is their means of damaging other ships. Think of it as if you could block or shoot down arty shells in WoT.

 

1 hour ago, TungstenHitman said:

3. I see that in WoW there are classes of ships. Do these fulfill roles something similar to WoT in the sense that there are light, medium and heavy tanks, only with ships?

Yes and no.

While you can say BBs are very much like heavy tanks in WoT (damage sponge that rather do huge alpha than dpm) it's not so easy for the other classes.

CV would be arty but I explained above while this isn't that easy to compare.

Mediums would be the cruisers in general but there are a lot of very different cruisers in this game so you need to take care with that. The royal navy (british) cruisers play much more like a Destroyer while there are cruisers that seem almost like a battleship and labeled as the wrong class.

DDs would be the light tanks because they are fragile and spotting is their most important role. But unlike the lights in WoT they each carry a very nasty and deadly sting which can instantly sink any ship at the same Tier namyl the torpedos.

Also DDs should be most of the time occupied with fighting of other DDs while trying to take control of objectives (capture points).

1 hour ago, TungstenHitman said:

4. Are all classes of ships capable of defeating all other tier and classes of ships it will encounter? I.E. can the smallest lightly armored bottom tier class of ship in a battle defeat the strongest heavily armored top tier ship in that battle?

Yes very much. Unlike WoT there shouldn't be any situation where you just can't in theory sink the enemy ship you meet with normal MM if you manage to outplay the enemy. (Unlike WoT where armor is just too thick so the light can't do anything to the heavy)

Of corse if two equaly skilled players meet. The HP difference and armour between Tiers do matter.

1 hour ago, TungstenHitman said:

5. Nations. So in WoT the Russian tanks tend to be the best armored, speed, rng tanks with other nations having pro's and cons. Certainly there are nations and even entire lines that can be considered noob friendly and a good place to start learning the game from. So in WoT, I like to play medium tanks with good accurate guns, pen, view range and camo but sacrificing armor. Which nation, class and tier would you guys recommend to new player that has bags of WoT experience(if that counts for anything in WoW) and would like to play the equivalent of medium tanks with good guns that sacrifice armor in favor of speed and firepower?

Egoleter explained that one really well already.

1 hour ago, TungstenHitman said:

6. In regards to WoT and WoW. Are there any similarities in gameplay or is it pretty much a totally different playstyle?

Just throw everything out the window that you learned in WoT except maybe angling. But just don't do anything alike sidescaping or peek-a-booing in this game. it just doesn't work.

1 hour ago, TungstenHitman said:

7. How is the MM balanced by comparison to WoT? Is it more fair or more punishing?

Like explained above fairly decently if you don't bother with some unfathomable Tiers. (namly Tier V and Tier VIII)

1 hour ago, TungstenHitman said:

Thanks all, sorry about the typos if any(there's always typos with me))

No problem welcome again.

[LOZFFVII]

1 hour ago, Egoleter said:

For DDs it becomes more difficult. I'd probably start with the british or the german ones, as they are well rounded ships that don't necessarily excell at anything.

Actually, both RN and KM DDs are a bit tricky.

RN DDs have low-caliber guns for their type and the T9/T10 ships actually struggle to pen same-tier DDs with their HE shells.

KM DDs have terrible HE performance throughout the whole line (low damage and low fire chance).

Both of the above DD lines require the player to understand when to switch to AP to maximise damage potential.

 

In terms of gaining experience with DDs, I'd recommend the following:

Torpedoboat DDs go with the base IJN DD line (the one that ends with Shimakaze). It's a bit of a meme how bad they've been treated by WG balans^tm department, but they are techinically the best at torp damage, range and speed, so they will teach you how to use torpedoes effectively.

Gunboat DDs go with the base VMF DD line (the one that ends with Khabarovsk). Long-range, high velocity guns and short-range torpedoes really emphasizes how you need to play gunboat DDs. High-tiers you can choose between smoke screens or a heal.

Generalist DDs I would choose USN DDs. They start out with torpedoes barely better than the VMF DDs, but from T8 up they get much better range and turn into excellent all-rounders. From T6 and up, you get an optional hull that drops a gun mount and lets you equip AA Defensive Fire consumable instead of Engine Boost, but T9 and 10 can equip the AAdef fire instead of boost without dropping the gun.

[Verblonde]

1 hour ago, TungstenHitman said:

Are there any similarities in gameplay or is it pretty much a totally different playstyle?

Besides (already mentioned) angling, if you've spent any time playing derp tanks (things like KV-2), you'll have a bit of a head-start on being used to shells with much more pronounced arcs.

 

This video might be worth a look: https://www.google.ca/search?source=hp&ei=NG56XaWkI8LJ-gTB8riABQ&q=ichase+how+to+aim&oq=ichase+how+to+aim&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i22i30.1034.5566..5876...2.0..0.174.2485.0j19......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i131j0j0i10j0i5i10i30j0i13j33i160j0i13i30j33i22i29i30.nDkUIzskYgQ&ved=0ahUKEwiljueg1svkAhXCpJ4KHUE5DlAQ4dUDCAc&uact=5#kpvalbx=_Om56XfefOoe9-gTg7rLIBg20

 

The rest of the iChase Captain's Academy series are very worthwhile when starting too, although anything older than around nine months (+/-) concerning CVs and/or AA is out of date, since the CV class was radically overhauled a while back.

 

Coming from WOT myself (20Kish battles, most on NA), I found the transition to WOWS took a while to get used to - WOT is a lot faster and generally immediate; you have to think several steps ahead in WOWS, especially in the slower classes (BBs especially), even to the extent that turret rotation speed is a significant thing on the bigger ships, so that with a BB you have to keep track of where your enemy are/will be, where your hull needs to be pointing (turning the hull effectively turns the turrets), and all this with a thirty-second reload! This stuff starts to get instinctive after a while though, and you can reduce the impact by playing 'faster' classes such as DDs/CLs.

[Nadrick]

Hi TungstenHitman, and welcome to World of warships 

 

Before I joined world of warship, I was a big World of tanks player myself, just like you - So I had exactly the same questions as you back then.

I'll try my best to answer your questions, with my knowledge of World of tanks aswell.

 

1. So in WoT you have a 10 tier system same as here. Is tier 5 still the comfort tier like in WoT where a player can play respectably decent ships and about the best tier to grind credits or is that all different in WoW?

The best grind for credits is somewhat Tier V and Tier 8. Theres not a huge jump in earning credits from tier 4 to 5 though. 

It's quite easy to reach Tier 5 (Just like in WOT), however you will experience, just like in WOT, that you will stay longer in Tier V and tier VI, than tier III etc. So yes, tier 5 is the best place to learn different nations and ship lines. 

 

2. In WoT probably the most toxic class is SPG, is there a class of tank that bums out gameplay with the same level broken redline hard hitting attributes in WoW?

WOT = SPG, WOWS = CV. CV, aircraft carriers, fullfill the same support role as SPGS, however there is a slight difference in their playstyle, and personally i'd say that CV's are able to be a bigger gamechanger than SPG's in WOT.

3. I see that in WoW there are classes of ships. Do these fulfill roles something similar to WoT in the sense that there are light, medium and heavy tanks, only with ships?

Definiately yes. Battleships: The tank and big damage of the battle (Heavy tank) - Destroyer (light tank, but with much greater firepower than in WOT) and cruisers (medium tank). CV (SPG). There's not really a tank destroyer class in WOWS, as both BB's and DD's are quite strong.

 

4. Are all classes of ships capable of defeating all other tier and classes of ships it will encounter? I.E. can the smallest lightly armored bottom tier class of ship in a battle defeat the strongest heavily armored top tier ship in that battle?

This game is 100% about skills. A skilled captain in tier 5 can destroy an unexperienced captain  in tier 7. Some ships in eg. tier 5 are stronger than others, which is why I recommend learning the different ships, so you know how to pick your fights, while you still learn the game 

5. Nations. So in WoT the Russian tanks tend to be the best armored, speed, rng tanks with other nations having pro's and cons. Certainly there are nations and even entire lines that can be considered noob friendly and a good place to start learning the game from. So in WoT, I like to play medium tanks with good accurate guns, pen, view range and camo but sacrificing armor. Which nation, class and tier would you guys recommend to new player that has bags of WoT experience(if that counts for anything in WoW) and would like to play the equivalent of medium tanks with good guns that sacrifice armor in favor of speed and firepower?

I refer to Egoleter's reply.

 

6. In regards to WoT and WoW. Are there any similarities in gameplay or is it pretty much a totally different playstyle?

There is a few similarities. You still have to angle, you still have to consider your position. However, in this game its way harder to play solo. You would have no problem 1v2 in WOT, but people have way more HP in WOW than  WOT, which means you are way more dependant on your team, and teamwork. It's slightly less fast-phased than WOT. 

7. How is the MM balanced by comparison to WoT? Is it more fair or more punishing?

I would say both

 

Hope you enjoy your stay here at World of warship. Remember theres guides and other usefull tips on the forums! 

[LOZFFVII]

OH!

One more thing I should mention:

Currently WG are planning to introduce Submarines (SS) into the game. As such, be aware you may get used to mechanincs used in the game at present that may be changed in the near future to encorporate the new ship class. Especially when it comes to DDs, as they will be getting ASW (anti-submarine warfare) mechanics with the introduction of SSs.

[Verblonde]

1 hour ago, TungstenHitman said:

So in WoT you have a 10 tier system same as here. Is tier 5 still the comfort tier like in WoT where a player can play respectably decent ships and about the best tier to grind credits or is that all different in WoW?

Even though you're experienced in WOT, I would suggest staying at T4 for a while, and play as many ships/nations as you can:

• Very early on, you haven't unlocked all the bells and whistles yet; make sure you've got access to captains, upgrades and camouflage before you venture into the +2 MM bracket (T5+) - you'll be significantly gimped without the full set.
• If you play a range of nations and classes you'll get a better handle on what everyone is trying to do to you, and how to counter it; bear in mind though, there are a few things that you don't meet until higher tiers (radar especially).
• Whilst you're adjusting to WOWS, only facing things a tier higher than you (at worst) will make learning easier/faster, as you'll spend less time getting prematurely vapourised.

You will want to advance to at least T5-T7 as soon as your abilities permit though, as most missions (with decent rewards) need at least T5 ships. Bear in mind though that you often can do missions in Coop mode, which is almost a guaranteed win if all your team are real people (not a given in the wee hours). You also have Ops (T6-7 at the moment) which are perhaps a more interesting way to get the hang of some mid-tier ships, although you'll attract fellow players' ire if you play like a complete muppet (perhaps go into Ops in a Division - the WOWS platoon - with someone who can tell you what to do.

 

The best tier for credit grinding varies a bit by player, game mode, account type, and how good you are. Broadly-speaking, the way to get maximum rewards is to do damage, and you want to be doing high proportions of damage i.e. you'll be better rewarded for taking 10K hit points off a DD than for taking them off a BB. You'll get the same reward for doing 50% of a ship's hp in damage regardless of class, all things being equal. Damaging higher tier ships than yours will generate even more rewards.

 

Have a look at this page for the basics of how the economy works: https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Economy

 

If you have a premium account, you'll make a lot more silver on all ships; premium ships generate more silver than equivalent silver ships - that stuff is similar to WOT.

 

As in WOT, the silver economy gets more punishing at the high tiers, although in WOWS you can spend real money (doubloons usually) on permaflage, which improves matters (to the point that several of my best earners are T10 silver ships!).

 

Basically, to maximise silver earnings, play at tiers where you can reliably do plenty of damage and use premium ships/account where you have them.

 

Something else to note is that rewards vary significantly with game mode: Coop tends to result in the smallest rewards (mainly because it's laughably easy), randoms are much better (harder, plus you have more enemies to damage, if they don't get you first), and Ops can be worthwhile for grinding in a suitable ship. Some of the 'special' modes can generate a lot of silver too e.g. the current season of clans has earned me several million silver in a single session (using premium everything) on occasion.

 

BTW speaking of clans - join one. Besides hopefully having people willing to teach, you'll often get some very helpful economic bonuses if the clan base is reasonably developed.

[Verblonde]

2 hours ago, TungstenHitman said:

thinking of trying out WoW

BTW as per @Egoleter above - get an invite code when you start - it'll get you a bunch of useful rewards, and a premium ship or two (or did the last time I checked) which'll make your life easier.

 

If you keep playing, your 'sponsor' will get tokens that can be spent on containers for them, or both of you too...

[ColonelPete]

2 hours ago, TungstenHitman said:

Hi guys,

...

Thanks all, sorry about the typos if any(there's always typos with me))

1. In WoWs it is Tier V to VII
2. Not really, but everyone has their opinion and you will find someone that loathes it for any class
3. Partially, but WoWs is too different
4. Yes, there was even a time you could bring Tier II ships into Tier X battles and sink Tier X ships
5. Noob friendly classes tend to teach a wrong lesson. I think it is important to start with cruisers to learn shooting (IJN or US) and later try out every class before Tier V to see what you like.
6. totally different
7. max of +2 MM

[Hanse77SWE]

1: The "sweet spot" is where you want it to be. I do better in a T5 than a T9 credit-wise. The reward can be better in the high-tier, but so is the risk.

2: CVs are the "odd duckling". More toxic? Not really but it's the closest to SPGs in this game.

3: All classes are good and bad at different things but you shouldn't get stuck in that mindset. Playstyle depends on class as well as map and teamcomposition. The same ship must/can be played differently depending on the circumstances.

4: Everything can damage everything. Nothing is immune.

5: Nations have thier own "flavors" but they can change mid-line. Don't get too used to them.

6: Forget everything you know. WOT is fast paced and depends on reflexes and fast decisions. WoWs is planning, keep moving and sticking to your plan. In WoT you get punished for what you just did. In WoWs you get punished for what you did five minutes ago. Speed is life. If you stop you're a sitting duck OR useless to your team. If you hide you're useless to your team. Get used to get hit, alot. Getting hit doesn't mean you're bad. You're supposed to get shot at, that means you're either a threat or an easy target. Make sure it's the first of those two.

7: I have no problem with the MM. If you're bottom tier you do the best you can, same as when you're top tier. Remember: "Everything can damage everything."

 

My main advice to new player is: Play Everything! Start with all T1s, then all T2s and so on. You will learn the controls, you will learn the maps, you will learn the ships (both what's good and what's bad). You will learn alot!

 

What you won't learn are the mechanics. Use Wiki and YT for that and then try out what you've learned in the game. "Chance favors the prepared mind"

 

GL&HF

[Sir_Sinksalot]

Thanks for the answer and help guys. Btw is Tungsten I just started a new account for WoW so I can keep the 2 separate. I'm currently downloading the game which will take about another 2 days by the look of it lol. The invite codes. Ya by all means message me a link please. That's the same as WoT, I will get free stuff as a new player and the person who sent me the codes gets something also, as it should be. 

 

Thanks again. Sir Sinksalot  

[Egoleter]

14 minutes ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

Thanks for the answer and help guys. Btw is Tungsten I just started a new account for WoW so I can keep the 2 separate. I'm currently downloading the game which will take about another 2 days by the look of it lol. The invite codes. Ya by all means message me a link please. That's the same as WoT, I will get free stuff as a new player and the person who sent me the codes gets something also, as it should be. 

 

Thanks again. Sir Sinksalot  

PM is on the way.

[Sir_Sinksalot]

Thanks. Does this screenshot suggest I got the stuff or just showing me what I can get? I'll find out when I log into the game for the first time but its only 25% downloaded so that might not even be this evening.

 

[Egoleter]

5 minutes ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

Thanks. Does this screenshot suggest I got the stuff or just showing me what I can get?

Both.

I think you'll get the Diana after your first battle. The premium time and the Warspite are connected to some missions that will unlock for you once you reach a certain account level. The missions will tell you how to obtain them (nothing to dramatic).

[BattleshipGunner]

11 hours ago, Egoleter said:

Both.

I think you'll get the Diana after your first battle. The premium time and the Warspite are connected to some missions that will unlock for you once you reach a certain account level. The missions will tell you how to obtain them (nothing to dramatic).

As far as I remember, the Diana is received after the first battle. Warspite is received after your first battle in a tier 6 ship.

[SlightlyOff]

Am 12.9.2019 um 16:26, TungstenHitman sagte:

1. So in WoT you have a 10 tier system same as here. Is tier 5 still the comfort tier like in WoT where a player can play respectably decent ships and about the best tier to grind credits or is that all different in WoW?

You can grind credits a lot easier in general in WoWs but not necessarily at Tier V. You ideally want an OP premium ship that you do well in and that does have a good credit factor. Needn't be the Missouri (which has an absurd credit bonus but is not really OP and only rarely made available, to bait people into buying lootboxes and wasting time hunting supercontainers). But there are other options, I think even Shinonome (a reward ship for an in-game campaign) could be a good credit earner, although not easy to play, but they just put a premium camo with 35% extra credits into the shop for it. If you are a very good DD player.

 

Zitat

 

2. In WoT probably the most toxic class is SPG, is there a class of tank that bums out gameplay with the same level broken redline hard hitting attributes in WoW?

 

Aircraft carriers.

 

 

To a degree, also smoked HE spammers, but they are a lot easier to avoid, which is the main counter - if they expend a smoke and then get to farm only litte damage, they have failed.

 

 

Also the radar and hydro mechanics are a bit stupid in that they can magically see through islands. But all of that really pales, compared to aircraft carriers which are fundamentally incompatible with the game's core concept. Really. It is a completely different game when there are no carriers in the MM. But since WG blew all this money on the rework, they are committed to keep CV numbers up, even though as such, the class is very unpopular, and WG will nerf the ship's anti-air every time the numbers drop, like atm.

 

 

 

Zitat

4. Are all classes of ships capable of defeating all other tier and classes of ships it will encounter?

 

Theoretically yes. In practice, some match-ups require a bigger skill gap or majorer blunder than others though. Aircraft carriers are basically invulnerable, take almost no damage over time (fires/flooding) and chasing them is almost always a waste of time, especially since the last squadron launched can still fly multiple attacks long after the carrier is sunk.

 

Zitat

5. Nations. So in WoT the Russian

... bias is creeping into WoWs as well. It's not quite as bad as in WoT (yet) but the latest, largely ahistoric line of fantasy Soviet BBs is currently the most powerful by far; as is the reward cruiser Stalingrad, and the most toxic OP non-CV atm is probably Smolensk.

 

Zitat

6. In regards to WoT and WoW. Are there any similarities in gameplay or is it pretty much a totally different playstyle?

The spotting mechanics are much more straightforward, easier to understand, and there is much less 3-dimensionality involved since the ships always stay on the same plane. You can still be invisible while shooting people but it takes more of an effort.

 

Also there is still team damage (except for Operations mode and some Events modes) and it is very necessary to keep the game from becoming completely braindead. Better not torp from the second row.

 

Also the whole game is so much slower paced that you often have time to type and read a lot more in chat, even if you haven't died yet.

 

At the same time this means you need to think ahead even more.

 

The best thing is people can't ping the map any more after they died, and as of the latest update, you can totally mute other players individually.

 

Zitat

7. How is the MM balanced by comparison to WoT?

 

There are some tough spots, especially Tier VIII which they have constantly been promising to improve for years on end without really pulling it off. It is super tough especially on the cruisers which mostly only get a heal at Tier IX.

 

The low Tiers up to IV have sorta-kinda new player protection which includes among other things a plus-minus 1 Tier only MM spread. But that makes Tier V even tougher since you now not only face being 2x uptiered, but can also run into the first radar ships.

 

And of course the low tier carriers, especially Hosho, well. Which is all the more unfortunate since some Tier III ships don't even have the slightest shred of AA and with very few exceptions, low tier AA is not worth mentioning across the board.

 

 

[Sir_Sinksalot]

Thanks again for the tips guys. Enjoying the game which is a good thing. I'll definitely stick to a maximum of tier 4 until I learn the ropes. As suggested, I took on the German nation for destroyers and they're really nice but since I'm new and playing with noobs it's a little clumsy and I'm getting pegged for team damage which is a bit disappointing since the torpedo speed is much much slower than shells from a gun so even though I keep myself map aware and aware of my teammates positions and directions, sometimes they will completely change their direction and drive straight into the flight path of my torpedoes that would have been a very safe shot before my teammate decided to make a hard turn with absolutely no apparent reason for him to do so other than been a noob like me lol.

 

For the Cruisers and Battleships I took "Rasha!" since you guys pointed out they have big guns, range and shell speed. Really enjoying those, much less chance if FF and some of my skills from WoT definitely applied here so I was reasonably good at judging the lead I needed to put on some targets since there are some slow shell velocity guns in WoT and derp guns so that was all good and I was ranged shots on fast ships pretty consistently along with looking to land them on weak spots and knocking out their guns and torpedo launchers etc.

 

The biggest surprise was that I liked the Battleship. Ok, it's just the tier3 Russian BB so I won't get carried away, in fact all the ships are low tiers obviously but I was surprised by how effective the BB was compared to my pre-conceived notion of them being an over-armored glacially slow hp pinata for all other classes to farm. This was certainly not the case with this ship at least. It was a lot quicker and agile than I thought and the guns were a lot more responsive and accurate than I would have thought. Certainly hitting any class wasn't too much an issue unless it's a fast destroyer that gets in close and starts circling but obviously there needs to be that rock paper scissors balance to make no one class the "do it all" and no reason to play any other of course... but that only happened once, for some reason my BB has a repair that restores like.... 25% of your hp pretty immediately for some reason and I was still able to get my guns on that destroyer and take him out. Was also really nice to have that jaw busting firepower when I finally cornered an aircraft carrier along with taking out other battleships from range that were distracted by my teammates, bringing those big AP shells into the mix. All good, all fun, thanks again.  

[Egoleter]

21 hours ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

Thanks again for the tips guys. Enjoying the game which is a good thing.

Great to hear that.

 

21 hours ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

I'll definitely stick to a maximum of tier 4 until I learn the ropes.

Also a wise decision. Don't rush things. But also remember to not stall yourself just because you don't think you are good enough.

 

21 hours ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

As suggested, I took on the German nation for destroyers and they're really nice but since I'm new and playing with noobs it's a little clumsy and I'm getting pegged for team damage which is a bit disappointing since the torpedo speed is much much slower than shells from a gun so even though I keep myself map aware and aware of my teammates positions and directions, sometimes they will completely change their direction and drive straight into the flight path of my torpedoes that would have been a very safe shot before my teammate decided to make a hard turn with absolutely no apparent reason for him to do so other than been a noob like me lol.

Now here starts the tricky part.

 

You need to start to be aware of your teammates positions and potential speeds. In the lower tiers battle can be quite chaotic but it is still possible to play with torps without damaging teammates.

First of all and the most important:

• Your torps, your responsibility.
• There is no such thing as a friendly torp. They are all out to harm you.

Now how to better play with them:

• If friendly ships are between you and the enemy, the general direction, not the line of fire, then hold your torps.
• Be aware of the range of your torps. They do not have unlimited range and they can not always catch up to a ship that is heading in a direction away from you.
• If, despite all your attempts not to torp in the general direction of your team, a friendly ship is heading for your torps
  • place your aiming reticle above that ship and press F9
  • ping the minimap where your torps are
  • and write in chat "torps". That will not always help the teammmate in avoiding them and it will not free you of your responsibility for your eels but it might still reduce the number of accidents.

Experience will help you for sure and if your goal is to no longer hit friendlies with your torps you'll master that skill for sure.

 

21 hours ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

For the Cruisers and Battleships I took "Rasha!" since you guys pointed out they have big guns, range and shell speed. Really enjoying those, much less chance if FF and some of my skills from WoT definitely applied here so I was reasonably good at judging the lead I needed to put on some targets since there are some slow shell velocity guns in WoT and derp guns so that was all good and I was ranged shots on fast ships pretty consistently along with looking to land them on weak spots and knocking out their guns and torpedo launchers etc.

 

The biggest surprise was that I liked the Battleship. Ok, it's just the tier3 Russian BB so I won't get carried away, in fact all the ships are low tiers obviously but I was surprised by how effective the BB was compared to my pre-conceived notion of them being an over-armored glacially slow hp pinata for all other classes to farm. This was certainly not the case with this ship at least. It was a lot quicker and agile than I thought and the guns were a lot more responsive and accurate than I would have thought. Certainly hitting any class wasn't too much an issue unless it's a fast destroyer that gets in close and starts circling but obviously there needs to be that rock paper scissors balance to make no one class the "do it all" and no reason to play any other of course... but that only happened once, for some reason my BB has a repair that restores like.... 25% of your hp pretty immediately for some reason and I was still able to get my guns on that destroyer and take him out. Was also really nice to have that jaw busting firepower when I finally cornered an aircraft carrier along with taking out other battleships from range that were distracted by my teammates, bringing those big AP shells into the mix. All good, all fun, thanks again.  

Nice to see that you enjoy those lines and that you understand that all ships need to be vulnerable somehow, yet all have their strenghts too. There are some players who even after 10,000 battle or more did not come to understand that.

 

I'm thrilled to hear more about your future experiences with the game.

 

Side note:

If you continue to be as active as you currently are, I'll send you a small recruitment container in one or two days. Edit (20 hours later): Container send

As I recruited you, I should already be in your chat contacts. If you see me online and need help with anything, don't hesitate to contact me.

[Panocek]

On 9/15/2019 at 12:41 PM, Sir_Sinksalot said:

Thanks again for the tips guys. Enjoying the game which is a good thing. I'll definitely stick to a maximum of tier 4 until I learn the ropes. As suggested, I took on the German nation for destroyers and they're really nice but since I'm new and playing with noobs it's a little clumsy and I'm getting pegged for team damage which is a bit disappointing since the torpedo speed is much much slower than shells from a gun so even though I keep myself map aware and aware of my teammates positions and directions, sometimes they will completely change their direction and drive straight into the flight path of my torpedoes that would have been a very safe shot before my teammate decided to make a hard turn with absolutely no apparent reason for him to do so other than been a noob like me lol.

 

For the Cruisers and Battleships I took "Rasha!" since you guys pointed out they have big guns, range and shell speed. Really enjoying those, much less chance if FF and some of my skills from WoT definitely applied here so I was reasonably good at judging the lead I needed to put on some targets since there are some slow shell velocity guns in WoT and derp guns so that was all good and I was ranged shots on fast ships pretty consistently along with looking to land them on weak spots and knocking out their guns and torpedo launchers etc.

 

The biggest surprise was that I liked the Battleship. Ok, it's just the tier3 Russian BB so I won't get carried away, in fact all the ships are low tiers obviously but I was surprised by how effective the BB was compared to my pre-conceived notion of them being an over-armored glacially slow hp pinata for all other classes to farm. This was certainly not the case with this ship at least. It was a lot quicker and agile than I thought and the guns were a lot more responsive and accurate than I would have thought. Certainly hitting any class wasn't too much an issue unless it's a fast destroyer that gets in close and starts circling but obviously there needs to be that rock paper scissors balance to make no one class the "do it all" and no reason to play any other of course... but that only happened once, for some reason my BB has a repair that restores like.... 25% of your hp pretty immediately for some reason and I was still able to get my guns on that destroyer and take him out. Was also really nice to have that jaw busting firepower when I finally cornered an aircraft carrier along with taking out other battleships from range that were distracted by my teammates, bringing those big AP shells into the mix. All good, all fun, thanks again.  

Tier 4 is now subject to glorious result of Wargaming balans, known to mortals as IJN Hosho, japanese carrier that got "broken tier" overbuffed with previous patch. And upcoming patch changelog have nothing mentioning nerfs, changes, anything. As much as I appreciate idea of hanging around lowtiers, you might want to get out of tier 5 to not be subjected by Hosho spam as lowtiers have pretty much NO anti air whatsoever.

 

Not that you will free yourself from CV on highers tiers tho. But they aren't as relatively broken as Hosho is.

 

About torps, you simply don't launch them from 2nd line unless you have clear and both way comms with guy(s) in front.

 

Russian BBs have one flaw - relatively short range, which may or may not prove crippling when both teams simply refuse to close in. And keep in mind, you "leading the charge" with rest of the team behind you (which also probably will turn tail on first sight of danger) means you're overextending and probably will be subject of thorough arse spanking from multiple ships.

 

Rock-paper-scissors I don't think ever was the case in WoWs balancing history to be honest. Destroyers does have torpedoes, capable of delivering massive hurt, but that weapon almost entirely relies on enemy making mistake than you being good. Cruisers have firepower to bury DDs with sheer weight of ordnance, but need to spot destroyer first, which usually means putting teammate in destroyer in front of you. On higher tiers certain nations (US, UK, RU) get Radar consumable, temporarily revealing all ships within range. But to sink DD within 20-40s window you usually need entire team putting rounds into DD location.

 

Battleships can be described basically as such

 

"No Weapon in the arsenal of the Imperium or the Traitor equals the Titan Battleship on the battlefield, and a Legion blob of such vast war machines can bring any world to its knees. In truth, a Titan Battleship has only three enemies: folly, hubris, and another of its own kind."

— Grand Master Volkus, Ordo Sinister of the Divisio Militaris Sub_Octavian, Lesta of Wargaming

 

Destroyers and cruisers need to spend LONG time blasting HE and hoping for fires, which alongside of flood and overpen damage is 100% recoverable. Torps as mentioned above, rely on enemy being dummy and even then, BB have highest chances of living through simply due to amount of hp, heals and torpedo belt, reducing damage. Only real threat to battleship is another battleship. In return, BB with RNGesus blessing can blap both cruisers and destroyers, former with citadel hits, latter with overpens alone in case you can't be arsed to switch ammo to HE. They also on average have the best AA on their own tier, so carrier most likely will go after them last, after hunting down isolated and low AA targets like destroyers trying to actually do destroyer things

 

Even more so as game economy literally yells "shoot the smallest ones", because what matters for exp and credit calculation %hp damage done, not raw numbers. Thus 3 overpens dealing 3k damage to DD with 10k hp total will net you much more than the same 3 overpens, 3k damage on a battleship with 40k hp.

[Verblonde]

@Panocek: +1 for this:

 

[Sir_Sinksalot]

I spent most of WoW time yesterday grinding out lots of lines and classes of around tier3 and 4. It was ok in general, I also selected and completed missions from the started campaign too just to try and make extra use of those grinds too. I picked up lots of limited numbers of flags and camo but tbh I found them a bit laborious and too many of them to keep applying each and every battle. There was the option to resupply them too but I just decided to keep them for perhaps a time later when they would be of more benefit but generally I just wanted to get into a battle since the game itself has a lot of downtime with loading and the slow pace spending getting to locations in battle before we actually encounter and engage other ships so I really didn't wanted to add more time selecting and applying flags and camo etc.

 

Tried all the non-carrier classes. Destroyers were ok, had potential for fun with those banks of torps but generally, with my noobness, I was pretty ineffective with them compared to the other 2 classes. I'll watch some vids on destroyers but I wasn't really able to make them work unless there was some nice maps with choke-points and cover where I could get in close unseen and pepper a narrow passage with torps and smoke screen myself. Otherwise I generally spotted by a cruiser or another destroyer which meant I was getting into gunfights and a cruiser just had more range, firepower and hp to play around with so.

 

Cruisers were a class I like a lot. A nice middle road of attributes and there was some that were pretty much like powerful destroyers that just sacrificed torp reload times in exchange for more hp and superior gun firepower and range which I thought worked out much better overall since you can play the ranged bombarding targets with gun fire initially and then if the opportunity to bring your torpedoes into play comes along, it's an option but not totally reliant on having to get close nor heavily leaning on a torpedo based playstyle. Some had no torpedoes and instead had more firepower and "tank" which were pretty good too, both options were very effective against all classes of ship and less vulnerable to carriers.

 

BB. This was my first lesson in the range of a ships guns and also getting torpedo spammed by carriers which I could do nothing about. The Russian BB was ok but I was grinding through the tier3 Japanese BB and it only had about 10 km of gun range so was really bad for a tank that gets seen so soon, is vulnerable while also has to close the gap to make shots which is hard with a relatively slow ship along with the fact that closing the gap makes it even more vulnerable to the likes of destroyers and cruisers. I experienced where a cruisers simply kept me far enough away from me that he could shoot me but I hadn't the range to shoot him. End game battles where it was just me vs him etc. So then I looked up the stats on each ship etc and took on the tier3 British BB instead. Now that thing has 15 km gun range, difference story suddenly. With this relatively mobile BB, I keep my big fat self at range for the initial engagements when destroyers and cruisers were spotting and countering each other but generally, at this tier, mostly the likes of cruisers and other BB were being spotted at a distance of around 15 km from me. So, with plenty of teammates between me and them, I could let rip with those big ol guns from range and the British tier 3 BB has pretty big HE pen(not sure if thats good or a bad thing) but it was punishing all classes of ships and so much more effective about the battle than the short ranged Japanese tier 3. It was just so much more fun to play with what was about 50% more gun range and I could even get shots on carriers trying to run away and I didn't encounter any cruisers that had the gun range to keep away from me and still shoot me, if they wanted to shoot me they had to get within my gun range, lovely. 

 

I'm discovering how each ships changes from tier to tier though. Just because one is strong at one tier doesn't mean it continues in that pattern. One of the strongest ships at a certain tier can be one of the weaker ships with the next tier, and visa versa.

[Panocek]

Just now, Sir_Sinksalot said:

Tried all the non-carrier classes. Destroyers were ok, had potential for fun with those banks of torps but generally, with my noobness, I was pretty ineffective with them compared to the other 2 classes. I'll watch some vids on destroyers but I wasn't really able to make them work unless there was some nice maps with choke-points and cover where I could get in close unseen and pepper a narrow passage with torps and smoke screen myself. Otherwise I generally spotted by a cruiser or another destroyer which meant I was getting into gunfights and a cruiser just had more range, firepower and hp to play around with so.

Then there is case of destroyers not being made equal - carrying out torpedo runs with Russian gunboats can yield... lackluster results, just like trying to gun down enemy ships with japanese torpedo oriented destroyers.

 

4 minutes ago, Sir_Sinksalot said:

British tier 3 BB has pretty big HE pen(not sure if thats good or a bad thing)

Brits and Germans indeed have high penetration HE, which lets them damage tougher armored ships but up to a point. HE ignores angle of impact and unlike WoT, works binary - either it penetrates and deal damage* or don't. So "32mm HE pen" projectile from heavy cruiser for example will deal damage to 32mm plating and below regardless of angle, but 33mm and thicker plating will fail to do damage and all you can hope for is to roll fire chance.

 

*assuming ship section you've hit is not saturated

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Damage_Saturation

 

Bad thing about especially Brit BB HE is it can make you complacent with "easy HE and fire damage" - even King George V, having weakest AP per tier in UK line still can devastate broadsiding cruisers and can cause serious dent in hp against broadsiding battleships at short to medium range.

 

Also sitting at long range doesn't really exerts pressure on enemy team, while long range shelling is relatively easy to evade. Art of playing battleships includes balancing just outside of your detection range, usually around 12-14km for higher tiers, so you "disappear" between shots and wait for targets of opportunity to apply AP to the broadside.

[Sir_Sinksalot]

20 hours ago, Panocek said:

 

Bad thing about especially Brit BB HE is it can make you complacent with "easy HE and fire damage" - even King George V, having weakest AP per tier in UK line still can devastate broadsiding cruisers and can cause serious dent in hp against broadsiding battleships at short to medium range.

 

Also sitting at long range doesn't really exerts pressure on enemy team, while long range shelling is relatively easy to evade. Art of playing battleships includes balancing just outside of your detection range, usually around 12-14km for higher tiers, so you "disappear" between shots and wait for targets of opportunity to apply AP to the broadside.

 

It might be wrong and for most ships even this one it might wrong but it's definitely an advantage on this particular ship at this tier. When engaging another BB, AP shells would most likely get the job done sooner but I think the number of BB in the battle needs to be factored with a ship like this boasting HE pen and dmg of this magnitude. For example, sometimes I have been in battles with a lot of BB so most definitely I will load up with AP at the very start but in most battles there are maybe 2 BB and all the others are something else and so during such battles statistically I will encounter another class of ship other than a BB so I will load up with HE. If I happen to encounter the BB first which is a bit unlikely since they're the slowest ship and generally all the destroyers and cruisers are spotting each other first so I engage or move to engage the cruisers first... but if I get into a fight with BB too, I will keep going with the HE.

 

With this big HE pen brit BB, I will still be doing significant damage to the enemy BB, maybe not as much as AP but he will still be having lots of things immobilized, taking plenty of damage and almost perma-torched. Best thing of all though is this(with this British BB), should a cruiser or destroyer start targeting me, I will have the right kind of ammo loaded or loading so I will be able to defending myself at all times and sooner rather than later. There will be no lengthily downtime of my ship being a defenseless hp pinata while I am switching between ammo types... time in which that enemy BB will STILL be unloading on me and time in which the cruiser pommeling my ship with shells, setting me on fire and breaking everything and time in which the destroyer will be closing the gap to unload with torps. By having HE shells with such a fantastic high pen and high dmg combo, I can play the game in a way that is wrong for probably 99% of BB that don't have that level of HE pen, and higher tier BB, but possible be more effective for doing it lol.

 

There's some little gems down here at lower tier btw. 

 

For Destroyers, even though it isn't my favorite class right now and I probably play them wrong, the tier 2 Jpn and P-A are really fun. The P-A has excellent camo, 36 knots which is great fun but also a torpedo range of 8.4km which means you can spot ships without being spotted, let those torpedoes go from a long range and turn around before being spotted. It reloads fast too so by the time you have turned your boat around to face the other direction, you are ready to splash in another couple of torps. Really fun fast little torp boat. Downside is the torps are not particularly fast and "deep water" so will not hit other destroyers but tbh at tier2 I've found that the HE guns deal with other destroyers very effectively anyway, especially since other destroyer players at this tier seem to try and focus on hitting my 36 knot destroyer with torps, wasting lots of time, time in which I'm setting them on fire and draining their hp. Still, this is fun little rocket ship for just "fire and forget" torps into narrow channels between islands and picking off slower ships like BB from long ranges simply with sheer volumes of torpedoes from range while remaining unseen. 

 

The other fun destroyer at tier2 is the Jpn, as mentioned. It's a better balance but still leans heavily on torps, which I think is the point of playing these, otherwise just play a cruiser. It has 8km torps so not as big a distance as the P-A destroyer but at the same time not a lot behind it, still seems to be way more than most at this tier and even beyond this tier. Difference here is the torps can hit all classes of ships including other destroyers but for fighting other destroyers, again, I'd feel using the gun is a much better option. Still, it's always nice to have that torp option should the enemy destroyer you are fighting with present the opportunity to use them and maybe run aground by accident or have a broken engine, it's still a nice option. It's not as fast or quick turning as the P-A destroyer either but it does have a better gun with more dmg and range, in fact, the gun and torpedo range are both about 8km so if you get spotted as you're in range to drop your torps, at least you'll also know your gun is in range too so its a nice plan B feature. 

 

Cruisers, Japanese have been both the most fun and tier2 and tier3 so far. They combine an excellent mix of torpedo range, torpedo reload speed along with good mobility, gun range and HE alpha damage and dpm. Hard to fault really. Weak armor? try not to get shot I find is the best armor of all lol. 

 

BB. Already mentioned it. The British tier3 is a gem. It has 15km range guns at tier3, nice speed and mobility along with high penetration HE shells that cause other BB big problems and totally wreck all other classes while that decent speed and mobility(by BB standards) gives as good a chance to turn and engage targets trying to flank or circle your ship along with as good a chance to avoid torps and troll aircraft carriers as a BB can realistically have.

I'm currently having a hard time with the tier3 Japanese BB which only has 10km gun range and will continue to struggle even with the tier4 Jpn BB so while it will be stock since it has no AA at all but I'm going to stick with it because the tier4, once fully upgraded, gets some AA but it has incredible speed for a BB and mega gun range for a T4 along with typical Jpn high HE alpha so it looks like potentially a bit of fun. Apparently it can't hit the inside of a barn door and it has fewer guns with slow reloads so maybe not as much fun as I think!! but anyway I will give it a try but in any case I'm happiest playing the cruisers so won't really be bothered.

 

Aircraft carriers? I haven't played them yet but ya, I'm surprised they were included in this game. Rule of war, air rules all, simple. I know this is just a game so the rules are changed to make a balanced game or an effort at that but in all fairness it was airpower and aircraft carriers that made all these gun orientated ships redundant and obsolete. The sinking of the Bismark I think, was a fine example of air power rendering these once powerful ships obsolete and while many classes of ships were involved bringer her down, I think it was the humble little bi-plane carrying torps that bust her rudder and removed her ability to effectively fight along with dropping bombs from above etc. So ya, aircraft in a ship game... I guess as the tiers increase ships get some unrealistically generous AA capabilities but it will be interesting to see how it plays out. At this tier, they can do what they want to BB it seems and thus makes playing BB as a class pretty unappealing which is a pity since BB are beautiful and awesome looking ships so having such a class not particularly appealing to play is not a good thing for the health of the game imo, but again, maybe its just a lower tier thing.