Submarines: Beta Sign-up and Q&A

[dekjabrist]

you know what ?

Take a dictionary, and look up : "gratefulness"

[Kitchen]

Looking forward to test the submarines, especially what kind of impact it will have if you team up in a mixed division.

[Hanse77SWE]

Just now, dekjabrist said:

Well, nice mate, but how about waiting until there are tangible results ffs ???!!!???

You mean "Spend time and resources on something that I don't believe in or think will work"? I might as well spend that time and resources building a factory for inflatable dartboards.

[Pikkozoikum]

3 minutes ago, Hanse77SWE said:

You mean "Spend time and resources on something that I don't believe in or think will work"? I might as well spend that time and resources building a factory for inflatable dartboards.

You are spending time and resources to write about it :-|

[dekjabrist]

2 minutes ago, Hanse77SWE said:

You mean "Spend time and resources on something that I don't believe in or think will work"? I might as well spend that time and resources building a factory for inflatable dartboards.

What you believe is the opposite of what you know. You don´t need to try anything, wait until it´s finished then talk.

But hey, inflatable dartboards sounds nice to me....

[per007]

5 minutes ago, dekjabrist said:

you know what ?

Take a dictionary, and look up : "gratefulness"

So you also think all people on this planet have english as a mothertounge..? Well - your grateness is out of order mildely speaking lol

 

[dekjabrist]

1 minute ago, per007 said:

So you also think all people on this planet have english as a mothertounge..? Well - your grateness is out of order mildely speaking lol

 

Don´t confuse "grateful" with "being great" , just Google it´s not that hard.

And I´m not a native speaker either, so spare me with your excuses.

 

 

[Admiral_H_Nelson]

4 hours ago, Redcap375 said:

I think we now have a completely new generation of players than we did back in 2013. 

 

This is clearly evident in this thread and the previous CV rework one.

 

It's all about graphics to them, substance goes out the window. It's simply attracting lairy kids.    ( I humbly suggest a slight modification)

I know that "lairy" is quite common in London, at least.

However for those who are not familiar with the term let me quote from the Urban Dictionary:

Southern English slang used to mean "Don't f*** with me" and aimed at someone who is being insulting or confrontational. Often the person who uses this word thinks he is a bad man and the person who it is aimed at has damaged their fragile ego somehow.

[Hanse77SWE]

2 minutes ago, dekjabrist said:

What you believe is the opposite of what you know. You don´t need to try anything, wait until it´s finished then talk.

But hey, inflatable dartboards sounds nice to me....

Sure, "Know" and "Believe" are two different things but if the cost of "finding out" is more than I can afford then I wont go that way.

 

The CV-rework took the best part of a year and some say it's not propper yet and that was just a rebuild of a class that was already in the game.

Subs is a whole new class that, IMHO, fits in even less than CVs. The base of the game used to be "Rock, paper, scissors" with CVs as a bit of everything. With subs in the game I feel that it will turn in to "Rock, paper, scissors, lizard, Spock" and that's more than I want from a game that's suposed to be a fun pass-time. (https://the-big-bang-theory.com/rock-paper-scissors-lizard-spock/)

I don't play games to challenge myself, to be "number 1" or to "beat" someone or something. I play to have fun and if I don't have fun, I don't play it. I'm not willing to spend the next year being a guineapig for WG while they are testing out something that a) I doubt ever will be fun and b) will be harder to balance than the seating arrangement at a narcissist convention.

 

Yes, it's WGs game and they decide what to do with it, but I decide if I want to play it or not.

 

I also want to point out that though most of us here have been talking about the game, you have been busy complaining about the opinion of other people.

 

With that said I can comfort you with the thought that you will not hear from me again as you hereby will be on my "Ignore"-list.

 

Good day Sir.

[Gvozdika]

50 minutes ago, dekjabrist said:

It´s really painful to read all this shite here, the testing hasn´t even begun but ranting kids have already gone on a rampage.

 

Don´t like it ? ..............LEAVE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go and play "the other game "............................................ where you have really annyoing air attacks......

 

So, to tone down the discussion a little bit and make our and WG´s lives easier, I would suggest to just remove those people from game.

If you don´t have any decency towards the developers, if you can´t say "thank you WG for giving us the game" at least once, just go and practice some intercourse with yourself !

Consider this. 

 

The vocal ones are passionate about this game. We play it because we enjoy WOWS despite some of the questionable design decisions. We make known our gripes because we really don't want WG to shoot themselves in the foot. Similar noises were made about the Rework - WG carried on regardless and caused an entirely avoidable crapshoot. Similar noises were made about the NTC - very loud noises in fact. WG looked like they were going to stick with it but thankfully they heard the issues loud and clear. So sometimes making vocal noises does work and it can direct the development of a game if done right. A forum full of 'yes men' who agree with everything WG says and does is unlikely to have the same effect, oddly enough.

 

Feedback matters, especially when it's supported by some very articulate arguments that have been repeated over and over by various posters. I have yet to read ONE decent reason for including subs in the game - a genuine 'this will make the game better by means of X or Y' reason. I'm not seeing many brilliant arguments for the inclusion of subs aside from their novelty value. Which is fine - nothing wrong with that in itself. However I think WG are trying to wave new toys around rather than perhaps fixing the balance issues we already have. 

 

However if that doesn't array with your narrow world-view then for heaven's sake don't leave the house. You might come across people with different opinions to you, hell - even people who don't agree with you. I fear you would be tragically underprepared for such an emotional event.....

 

[Excavatus]

Hello all,

 

Personally, I love submarines, I really love them.

But I have my doubts about how they can be introduced into the random mechanics.

again but, I'll wait and hold onto my doubts until I see them in live game.

Basically If they take my fun away, I'll stop playing that is my personal choice, like adding subs into the game being the WG's choice.

 

After this,

I think all around here should hold their horses a little bit.

I can understand every feeling and thought, but please stay inside the boundaries of forum rules.

stay constructive a little bit.

These kind of topics, always brings the worst out of some people,

and moderation follows that.

Please folk, calm down a little bit, try to stay away personal remarks, discussions and off topics.

 

Your friendly moderator Exca!

[Benson_01]

6 hours ago, MixuS said:

Excuse me, but why is WG pushing subs in to the game? Who exactly wants them in the game, except WG themselves? I've never seen anyone wish subs were in the game.

Totally agree! I'm trying to keep an open mind but I can only see this as detrimental to the game/fun factor

[Benson_01]

6 hours ago, Redcap375 said:

 

I haven't laughed this much in this forum for ages!

 

 

But we are so on the same page and you are spot on.

Yep, it made me laugh a lot too 

[GoobyGrape]

Looks fantastic guys, cannot wait!  I know it's very early days but please consider Aircraft Carriers playing a role hunting Submarines. Historically, like Destroyers aircraft hunted Submarines and from a gameplay perspective I think it could be really fun. 

[mariouus]

2 hours ago, dekjabrist said:

t´s really painful to read all this shite here, the testing hasn´t even begun but ranting kids have already gone on a rampage.

 

Don´t like it ? ..............LEAVE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go and play "the other game "............................................ where you have really annyoing air attacks......

 

So, to tone down the discussion a little bit and make our and WG´s lives easier, I would suggest to just remove those people from game.

If you don´t have any decency towards the developers, if you can´t say "thank you WG for giving us the game" at least once, just go and practice some intercourse with yourself !

Well, we saw the Stream, now we have seen the Q&A.

 

And just like it was obvious with "new" CV, it is very obvious with that Sub concept that it will not work out.If you look at the topics from very early during "new" CV PTS, you can see that quite alot of us could tell very preciecly, how it will work out. And it worked out exactly like that.Even before CV, there where quite a few "nerfs" for other ships. It was pointed out do WG that those nerfs have now actual foundation and it later turned out that those nerfs where actually mistakes.

 

Thing is. Games like WoWs have things gameplay needes do have. If a concept does not have those must-haves, it will not work out. It is as simple. 

Fact is, many players in this community have many-many (more) years of experince playing games like WoWs and games in general. Those players know really well that what will and what will not work. This is the skill WG Balancing and Development branch lacks. And this is not me trying do insult WG, they have proven it over and over again. 

 

And has far has DECENCY toward Developers is consered. Lets take CV 0.8.0 - WE told WG allready in PTS that concept is bad, WE told them why it is bad,  WE told WG very prececly what following months will bring. And what WE got for that -  SIX months of complite cluster fk. That was completly avoidable. 

 

And now, the same guys are pushing forward with even bigger change, that have even more issues, doing it on top of still flawed CV "rework". 

 

Biggest problem with WG, is not that their Devs in balancing department are incompetent, it is that they are incompetent and arrogant. Previous so predictable screw-ups have assure, that they have alienated quite alot players who can provide good and high quality feedback. Because why bother.

 

 

 

 

[gmomkey]

Well this is going to take some serous testing . I am up for that . how ever long it takes . l am in for the long haul .

well Devs good luck and as for the Art Dept . you guys are Awesome , I can't wait to see what you have done with all this . 

On to Testing and Beyond  

[Peter_Snowmane]

Submarines are going to be less multi-tasking messy to play than CVs. And if CVs are in the game then subs must come too.

 

After all there were far more submarines in WW1,WW2 & the early cold war days than there were CVs.

 

Here is what I hope for from submarine play: action but also a chance for more calm between the critical points of engagements.

 

I think faster than real life speeds are the way to go. My own model was real life speeds but with forward stealth deployment at the start of the game PLUS a hyperspace consumable called "New Orders" that could relocate the sub to the vicinity of a red/neutral cap or hostile NON DD formation within the battle zone of the map (thereby sparing defensive CVs from getting auto-assassinated).

[Admiral_H_Nelson]

2 hours ago, Peter_Snowmane said:

Submarines are going to be less multi-tasking messy to play than CVs. And if CVs are in the game then subs must come too.

 

After all there were far more submarines in WW1,WW2 & the early cold war days than there were CVs.

 

Here is what I hope for from submarine play: action but also a chance for more calm between the critical points of engagements.

 

I think faster than real life speeds are the way to go. My own model was real life speeds but with forward stealth deployment at the start of the game PLUS a hyperspace consumable called "New Orders" that could relocate the sub to the vicinity of a red/neutral cap or hostile NON DD formation within the battle zone of the map (thereby sparing defensive CVs from getting auto-assassinated).

Not only submarines, but movement through hyperspace???????????

If this is a spoof post it is brilliant.

If not, then I'm gobsmacked.

[911IceMike]

Alot of pretty ungratefull, disrespectfull and outright toxic people that roam these forms and claim themself part of this community.

Practicing common courtesy, respect, and debate etiquette wouldn't go amiss.

Personaly I love subs, but as for how well they'd fit into the game, I have no idea. 

I signed up for the testing, beta-tested pretty much everything from the game's conception. And I'll do the same here. Voice out my concerns if there are any and if something ends up going down the way I don't like it. I'll adapt to it, and overcome it another way. You know, like how actual captains should. 

 

[Episparh]

1 hour ago, 911IceMike said:

common courtesy

That's hard to maintain when it's one sided. We rise concern and valid arguments and what we see in response - "We will do it anyway and we will balance it, trust us!"

 

1 hour ago, 911IceMike said:

respect

Most of us respected them with our wallets... Actually way too more than they deserve.

 

1 hour ago, 911IceMike said:

debate etiquette

Well, it's not possible when the opposite side just ignoring what they do not like to hear and they are arrogant to do whatever they want.

 

The thing is that someone DECIDED that submarines will be fun and used the HOLY spreadsheet as argument.

I personally suspect that it is the same person who came with the bright idea for NTC and the recent ridiculous grinds, like Savage Battles event. Probably the same guy, was promoted after the CV "re-work"  or particular guy went to the console world ...

 

The thing is that WG already spent tons of resources for that as they did with CVs and they will push it on us no matter what. It's a matter of time of someone in the financial department realize what the cost of the feature consumes and what it delivers. Once this occur we will have the same mess as we got in January.... then the cash grab .... then the BALANZ..

 

I like the game and I am grateful for its development. But this is not just a game it's a business model, and the problem is not the developers but the guys who make the decisions of how to operate that business model.

 

My only option is to stop funding this while it differs from my view, so I've done it. I have no patience for yet another 9 months of beta testing wrong concept, so when it hits - I am out, maybe even before that. 

[PiXiE93]

WHEN YOU SPOT A SUBMARINE, ATTACK HER WITH HE SHELLS.

Ok.. So basically UK LIGHT CRUISER LINE is litteraly useless versus submarines coz of their AP, and then thing about BATTLESHIPS is that all lines except UK shoots AP (with exeptions from absolute noobs who in YAMATOS from 30km shot HE - but that is something entirely different)

And basically rest of battleships lines are also useless because of AP...

 

So what about that???  

 

 

[Episparh]

 

[DanottiTR]

I am open minded to changes and I did signed to test also .

but seriously I do not want another class over CVs that will turn in to a scapegoat .... 

 

[BanzaiPiluso]

11 hours ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

Once subs reach Randoms, I will gravitate to game modes that don't have them.

 

It is a basic principle of game design that interaction between elements from different dimensions cannot be balanced as each element has only limited ways to influence the dimension they are not part of.

 

We have seen this with CVs and subs will be another example. I still wonder why don't they implement attack planes in WoT ... I mean they were a reality in WW2 and I am sure many people would like them. The would play the same as a tank just above ground ... sound like a good idea right ? At least as good as submarines in WoWs ....

Exactly what I've been saying. another dimension, asymmetric combat interaction and random based.

This is just expanding the CV fiasco but from below.

Why don't they add planes to WoTanks? Because is awful.

But they are happy to use ship players to keep a minority of customers in.

[PiXiE93]

8 hours ago, Peter_Snowmane said:

Here is what I hope for from submarine play: action but also a chance for more calm between the critical points of engagements.

Hire is what I HOPE FROM SUBMARINE PLAY: in WORLD OF TANKS (I havent played it for 5 years so I really dont remember how was it called) was game mode - for example like epicenter in wows, then you have normal multiple caps or kill all (when are only 2 bases); AND IN TANKS You had an option in settings to turn that game mode off.. 

If I dont like and dont wanna play with submarines, I WOULD HOPE - LIKE that WG puts an button in settings to click - if You want to play with them or wanna play them You just click it - enable it, if You DONT wanna play with submarines - disable that button.

Every single one player would be happy about that. Either You like it or You dont like it. That decision should be made entirely for each player by themselves...