Submarines: Beta Sign-up and Q&A

[Redcap375]

8 minutes ago, Gvozdika said:

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What is the main purpose and game concept of submarines?

The in-game role of submarines will partly reflect their historical role. That is, first and foremost, about positioning, planning, waiting for the best moment to attack, and subsequently diving into the depths of the sea to escape retribution. From the right position, a submarine can cause turmoil in enemy lines, strike from an unexpected direction, disable a dangerous enemy, or divert the attention of destroyers towards herself, thereby allowing her allies to act much more freely.

The role of subs in game will reflect their historical role around about 1% of the time. The rest we kind of made up. These things make sense when you've had a few... That is the idea of a sub running amok in a fleet battle environment and creating chaos in the already disorganised Random Battles you all know and love. It'll be fine. Honest.

 

 Why do submarines have such high speeds?

Submarines have rarely been fast in reality, and often they have been significantly slower than other ship types. However, World of Warships is still a game, and it has certain conventions that make fights between our enormous steel monsters more dynamic and attractive. That's why, in our game, submarines have some of the same parameters as other ship types—making the game more vigorous and exciting, and also helping to integrate the new ship type comfortably into the game in consideration of its balance. We honestly couldn't shoehorn this ugly duckling of a class into the game without taking reality and throwing it clean out of the nearest window. Reality is really boring anyway - so we'll give diesel subs the speeds of nuclear ones to spice things up a bit. Physics is also vastly overrated. Stop complaining - we're going to get these damn things into the game no matter the cost. 

 

What are sonar pings and what are they needed for?

The Sonar Ping mechanics allow players to get deeply involved in battle and demonstrate their skill. They also represent what these vessels did in reality, albeit presented in a slightly exaggerated form.In real life, an attack on a target took considerable time, and required complex calculations and careful target observation. At the same time, there were torpedoes with acoustic guidance, but they worked in a passive mode. Our mission is to create fascinating gameplay that includes all the tasks of a submarine crew. To do that, we've accepted some conventions by uniting two entities in one. In this way, we tried to turn the hard and painstaking work of submarine crews into fast and exciting gameplay. Because GIMMICK BALANS BEST BALANS. Homing torps won't cause any issues whatsoever. We've done a great deal of research on this and discovered that NO ships were actually sunk by active wire-guided torpedoes in WW1 or WW2 - so you are all overreacting. Research undertaken by the same man who balanced CVs in 0.8.0.

 

How many submarines will we see in battles?

On the test server, no more than two or three submarines per team are planned; on the live server, their number might be decreased to one or two. This will allow us to keep the overall dynamics and advantage of surface warships, as well as present submarines as a ship type that adds diversity to the main gameplay. We are convinced they will be balanced - which is why we'll cap their numbers in the MM to avoid breaking the game. We're SO convinced they'll fit that we'll possibly limit them down to 1 max.

 

Why doesn't the Hydroacoustic Search consumable detect submarines at the underwater level?

At the moment, this is a game convention that allows us to make the underwater level the safest zone for a submarine, where she will be able to avoid most kinds of damage and escape any enemies. However, there are still several test iterations ahead, and these in-game mechanics, as well as other mechanics related to submarines, can change. Like CVs - we have worked out that there are some people who simply cannot use the keyboard effectively. They CAN however use their credit card effectively - so we really do need to make things easier for them. The last thing we want is sub-hunting ships actually being able to find subs using actual technology that was purpose-designed to find underwater objects. That kind of logic has no place in our game in 2019. 

 

Why is it that only destroyers can release depth charges?

It's their historical role. It was destroyers that tracked down and hunted submarines. Despite the fact that sometimes cruisers and battleships carried depth charges, they almost never actively hunted submarines. We're considering adding depth charges to some light cruisers, but it's too early to speak about such changes now. DD players - do you enjoy being chased around the map by rocket planes, radar'd then vaporised by all those new radar ships we'ved added, machine-gunned to bits by all those rapid-fire HE spammers we're selling? GREAT NEWS! You've got another job! You'll love it! 

 

Why are depth charges released automatically and what is zone activation needed for?

Destroyers already perform a wide variety of tasks in battle. By making the release of depth charges automatic, we are reducing the number of actions that the destroyer is required to perform, thereby saving valuable time that a player can spend on other tasks.Moreover, we tested several variants where the player had to click once or several times to release a charge, as well as a variant where the release of charges happened upon activating a consumable. We didn’t find any significant advantages over automatic release, which is why we've chosen this variant.Zone activation is part of the game mechanics for destroyers hunting submarines, displaying their approximate location. Player interaction is so last year. Things are jolly easy when you just automate everything - if we could make ship movement that way we would. Just follow the pretty circles and hope that RNG plays nice. Resistance is futile. You WILL follow the circles.

 

How to fight against a submarine?

Although submarines have the best stealth parameters among all ship types and the possibility of going underwater, they still remain the most fragile ships and have just a small amount of medium-range torpedo armament. Moreover, if a submarine engages in active combat near you, you'll know at once. After she uses a sonar ping, her last location will be displayed on the Minimap. This will allow you to quickly catch the submarine due to her reverse speed being rather low. You can also force her underwater where she has to spend her oxygen supply and can't attack other ships. Submarines have a limited supply of oxygen which can only be replenished at the surface level, which is their most vulnerable position.When you spot a submarine, attack her with HE shells. Their blast wave has the potential to affect her at a certain distance of impact and deal serious damage.In future test iterations, other submarine countermeasures may be added. Although subs are effectively invisible - we're pretty sure this won't be an issue. Our spreadsheet informs us that it will be fine. That is why we're having to write this long paragraph to allay your fears and concerns that we're trying to squeeze this new class in for it's own sake to make a quick buck from the schmucks who are easily pleased. We're not. We aren't. Get that idea straight out of your heads.

 

Stay tuned for more details and let us know what you think. Beta testing to start soon - in a similar vein to the Rework Testing Process that was so ...erm.... successful. Hell, we'll ignore all of what you say anyway but at least you can play with the new toys!

 

 

For those who don't speak WG - a translation is above.

 

EDIT TO ADD - I offer professional translation services in most WG regional dialects.

 

 

I haven't laughed this much in this forum for ages!

 

 

But we are so on the same page and you are spot on.

[CroPanzer]

Nice to see the forum is still the best place to fish out the most toxic and hatefilled people of the community!

 

That being said, I am looking forward to this, and I wish I get picked for the testing phase!

 

I wish they had gone with cruisers (or most of them) possesing asw capabilities, and that you could manually drop charges, but I guess the tests will show how will this work out.

 

And to all those triggerony pepperony boiz out there rambling about unhistoricalities:

The game is downscaled, ships are too fast, no way in hell BBs could spew out that many shells so fast, oh man I wish I had to bracket fire to home in on my target, and don't forget that entire fleets clash in yolo type confrontatipn that lasts for about 15 minutes and one side is completely wiped!

So much realism in this game, too bad subs are gonna ruin it 

[stuurboord]

I am verry happy that we can have a try with the Subs.

Hope it will be a bit like the real Sub's, I sealed a long time a go on the Dutch 3 cilinder sub, so its I cant wait to try.

 

 

[JollyDodG3R]

Vor 2 Minuten, CroPanzer sagte:

And to all those triggerony pepperony boiz out there rambling about unhistoricalities: 

The game is downscaled, ships are too fast, no way in hell BBs could spew out that many shells so fast, oh man I wish I had to bracket fire to home in on my target, and don't forget that entire fleets clash in yolo type confrontatipn that lasts for about 15 minutes and one side is completely wiped!

So much realism in this game, too bad subs are gonna ruin it 

It is Wargaming which invoked 'historical accuracy argument' in their Q&A statement. Read first before giving unqualified comments.

[MrFingers]

3 minutes ago, CroPanzer said:

Nice to see the forum is still the best place to fish out the most toxic and hatefilled people of the community!

We've learned from the CV-"rework", and how great that turned out to be. If the CV-rework was successful, and balanced, you would have seen different reactions from a large part of the playerbase. Most stems from "wait, wut? You're working on submarines, and you haven't even found a working balance with the previous class?"

[CroPanzer]

1 minute ago, JollyDodG3R said:

It is Wargaming which invoked 'historical accuracy argument' in their Q&A statement. Read first before giving unqualified comments.

You are the one that should read more carefully, buddy.

 

It is that they strive towards it but not completely embracing it because it hurts gameplay, that's the whole point!

[JollyDodG3R]

Vor 2 Minuten, MrFingers sagte:

We've learned from the CV-"rework", and how great that turned out to be. If the CV-rework was successful, and balanced, you would have seen different reactions from a large part of the playerbase. Most stems from "wait, wut? You're working on submarines, and you haven't even found a working balance with the previous class?"

Spot on!

[JollyDodG3R]

Gerade eben, CroPanzer sagte:

You are the one that should read more carefully, buddy.

 

It is that they strive towards it but not completely embracing it because it hurts gameplay, that's the whole point!

 

As we saw with CV rework. Striving but never attaining it ... :D You are kidding, right?

[CroPanzer]

2 minutes ago, MrFingers said:

We've learned from the CV-"rework", and how great that turned out to be. If the CV-rework was successful, and balanced, you would have seen different reactions from a large part of the playerbase. Most stems from "wait, wut? You're working on submarines, and you haven't even found a working balance with the previous class?"

Afaik, these are completely different situations because the cv rework is in its polishing phase.

 

Quite posibly it was concieved in this way to complement the impending sub arival.

 

And that cv reeework was indeed a reee fest, the carriers are better than ever to play with and against, with some exceptions like the graf who were utterly destroyed by the never ending nerfs because of the incesant dd whine bonanza.

[Episparh]

8 minutes ago, AirSupremacy said:

I guess the best damage result outcome will be without pre-live server participation.

Can't wait until the Subs are on the live server for "testing" :D

It doesn't matter what happen during Beta as CV rework showed. As far as I remember WG changed their mind only after a serious backlash from community in two cases: planed uptiering of GC and NTC buff system. 

 

The mess we are living since January will come in greater force very soon™

[JollyDodG3R]

Gerade eben, CroPanzer sagte:

Afaik, these are completely different situations because the cv rework is in its polishing phase.

Haha :D Now I know for sure that you are trolling. In it's polishing phase ... haha :D Do you live under a rock?

[Redcap375]

9 minutes ago, MrFingers said:

We've learned from the CV-"rework", and how great that turned out to be. If the CV-rework was successful, and balanced, you would have seen different reactions from a large part of the playerbase. Most stems from "wait, wut? You're working on submarines, and you haven't even found a working balance with the previous class?"

This ^^^

 

and my bet 99.9% of the playbase thinks so too. 

 

And don't respond to trolls chaps.

[MrFingers]

3 minutes ago, CroPanzer said:

because the cv rework is in its polishing phase

WG says it's in the polishing state. You can polish a trainwreck all you want, you still end up with a pile of mangled steel (that's all shiny), it won't magically repair itself with just polish & some time.

 

Look, I'm not against submarines, au contraire... But first fix what needs fixing, before adding more bells & whistles.

[Gvozdika]

1 minute ago, MrFingers said:

WG says it's in the polishing state. You can polish a trainwreck all you want, you still end up with a pile of mangled steel (that's all shiny), it won't magically repair itself with just polish & some time.

Don't worry - I think he's the customer WG are aiming subs at. Stuff balance. Never mind how much the game suffers. New toys!

 

Just another 19,999 to go and they might actually have a business case...

[Egoleter]

I would participate, to provide some critical thinking on the feedback, if there wasn't the WGC limitation. That piece of software will not make it onto my PC.

 

You sure you are not rushing things again already? I mean you even had unresolved questions yourself on how this class interacts with the rest of the game during the Gamescom presentation. That wasn't all to long ago. Are those questions resolved?

[FooFaFie]

I personally can't wait for subs. But than again  I prefer the new CVs to the old CV-gameplay any day of the week.

[CroPanzer]

6 minutes ago, MrFingers said:

WG says it's in the polishing state. You can polish a trainwreck all you want, you still end up with a pile of mangled steel (that's all shiny), it won't magically repair itself with just polish & some time.

 

Look, I'm not against submarines, au contraire... But first fix what needs fixing, before adding more bells & whistles.

So wg was wrong by making their least played class fun to play?

 

Oh and even more balanced than before?

 

Shock and awe!

[Episparh]

3 minutes ago, CroPanzer said:

So wg was wrong by making their least played class fun to play?

 

Oh and even more balanced than before?

 

Shock and awe!

Yeah, the most balanced class! 

#JustDodge

[Redcap375]

I think we now have a completely new generation of players than we did back in 2013. 

 

This is clearly evident in this thread and the previous CV rework one.

 

It's all about graphics to them, substance goes out the window. It's simply attracting kids now.

[MrFingers]

13 minutes ago, Egoleter said:

That piece of software will not make it onto my PC

It's not *that* bad anymore TBH. It closes itself when the game launches (no longer running idle/"idle" in the background).

[CroPanzer]

6 minutes ago, Episparh said:

Yeah, the most balanced class! 

#JustDodge

Can't adapt to new meta?

How terrible

[powerverde]

7 minutes ago, CroPanzer said:

So wg was wrong by making their least played class fun to play?

 

Oh and even more balanced than before?

 

Shock and awe!

Have u tried sinking a cv with a cruiser?
Have u tried sinking a up tier cv with a lower tier cruiser?
Have u tried sinking a cv with an Italian cruiser?

 

90% of times you cant sink the cv because you wont see it before you're dead.
Everytime a CV does a mistake, it keeps its HP intact. Everytime you make a mistake agaisnt a cv, you loose HP, get fires/floods - and if you used a repair just before, that's a lot of hp gone.
On the other hand, hitting a cv does less dmg than hitting a battleship.

So pls explain me how balanced CVs are?

[Redcap375]

Why are you feeding the troll people?????

 

Don't be mugs.

[CroPanzer]

1 minute ago, powerverde said:

Have u tried sinking a cv with a cruiser?
Have u tried sinking a up tier cv with a lower tier cruiser?
Have u tried sinking a cv with an Italian cruiser?

 

90% of times you cant sink the cv because you wont see it before you're dead.
Everytime a CV does a mistake, it keeps its HP intact. Everytime you make a mistake agaisnt a cv, you loose HP, get fires/floods - and if you used a repair just before, that's a lot of hp gone.
On the other hand, hitting a cv does less dmg than hitting a battleship.

So pls explain me how balanced CVs are?

Look at the stats and the winrates/kills and the sort.

 

It's all WAY more toned down than it used to be.

 

Cvs are IMO overnerfed atm, the only imbalanced aspect are those ridiculous he bombs that are uncounterable and no skill dmg.

[Egoleter]

15 minutes ago, MrFingers said:

It's not *that* bad anymore TBH. It closes itself when the game launches (no longer running idle/"idle" in the background).

I still have a long list of unanswered technical questions that I have never recieved a reply for (despite a promise to do otherwise).

And I will need a minimum modus for it, without a browser or social module always active before I will even start to consider it being "not that bad". But that's a different topic. Let's not derail this thread.