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Duecut

WG please show the RN Cruisers some Love

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42 minutes ago, Padds01 said:

did look for the replay but it must be too old. i talked to the guy in chat at the time, had to check if detonation just didnt display in my screen , he was surprised about it to and we chatted a bit , he said it was just one salvo from the guns "just 4 crits" which i assume he meant citaels ,no torps he had just sent them other side of the island , he did get a dev strike out of it. but neither of us understood it. 

maybe some bug (shells hitting multiple times , is that a thing?) or maybe something else did have los on me round that island , but im pretty certain they didnt as i was turning because the detected light had just come on.

 

If he got a dev strike with 4 gun hits it was 100% a detonation. Yes there is a thing with shells damaging multiple compartments, but even if those IJN DD guns hit, penned all the sections and dealt full damage to them ( which is already not possible), there is no way game mechanics allow him to deal 48k dmg. 

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The RN Cruiser line are probably the line requiring the most skill. 1st time I grinded I was.... challenged.... but I've played them a 2nd time round on another acc (many_metal_fishes) that I made due to boredom before the NTC became a thing and I fully appreciate how good they are. Mostly due to being a better cruiser player by then, and can't wait to reset them this time round. As others have said, submit replays and we'll give all the advice we can :Smile_honoring: 

 

(solo Neptune stats from 2nd time around as we only are judged on those apparently :Smile_hiding:)

 

1739945762_soloneptunemanyfishes.thumb.png.19bfde3d408070b5d90bf0571fafc499.png

 

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I really enjoy the British cruisers, I'm currently regrinding them for the NTC and they are very powerful.

 

They are however a high risk high reward class to play, their fragility is designed to balance out against their high damage potential. The very brave or skilled can handle playing Neptune and Mino with radar instead of smoke and they are amazing DD hunters, but I lack the skill for that. So it's safer to run with smoke and play support to your Destroyers, that way then you can smoke up and shoot with someone else doing the spotting. 

 

Also quick word of advice don't just smoke up and shoot make sure you have an exit strategy for when the smoke runs out.

 

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Weymouth to Danae can use some help. But general issue that cruisers at T3-4 are roadkills in a tier with crap like buffed Houshou and Gangut. Rest is ok. Neptune could use some concealment buff, but otherwise is ok. Just sucks when you can get outspotted by DD and not radar, when your ship is this easily killed.

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[S-O-M]
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It’s because of the smoke I believe that RN cruisers don’t have HE, and yet the one Prem Cruiser has HE and no Smoke, whilst smoke definitely helps and frustrates the inexperienced players, it’s not the shield it used to be, radar, spotter planes, cv’s and awareness all quickly negate the cruisers Smoke screen, and sadly every single RN cruiser has armour made of sugar glass.

 

A mahan tried to hide in smoke and HE my Gneisenau, unlike the wise he was stationary, he didn’t last long, that’s what WG should be concentrating on buffing/revising ships especially German BB’s and Brit BB Ap and real ships, not op paper crap.

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I wouldnt mind seeing a royal navy heavy cruiser line. Too be honest, something like a churchill class at tier 10 and admiral at tier 9.

 

@Cagliostro_chan is yer waifu still gud? Even with nasty russian bbs?

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Just now, CptBarney said:

I wouldnt mind seeing a royal navy heavy cruiser line. Too be honest, something like a churchill class at tier 10 and admiral at tier 9.

 

@Cagliostro_chan is yer waifu still gud? Even with nasty russian bbs?

I mean, I'm talking after I sold all RN CLs via Research Bureau. Got Leander yesterday after all the low tier stuff.

 

First game:

Spoiler

shot-19_09.08_17_44.14-0276.thumb.jpg.b48fe4598cf1e9c5a28d34634700e4f0.jpg

shot-19_09.08_17_44.18-0518.thumb.jpg.9218e764aa3de35cb8e68e337b7ce836.jpg

 

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10 minutes ago, Cagliostro_chan said:

I mean, I'm talking after I sold all RN CLs via Research Bureau. Got Leander yesterday after all the low tier stuff.

 

First game:

  Reveal hidden contents

shot-19_09.08_17_44.14-0276.thumb.jpg.b48fe4598cf1e9c5a28d34634700e4f0.jpg

shot-19_09.08_17_44.18-0518.thumb.jpg.9218e764aa3de35cb8e68e337b7ce836.jpg

 

Noice result especially with a tier 8 carrier suprised you shot down so many planes.

 

no wonder you loike her so much.

 

oh any word on poi arriving into the game at all?

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didnt read all answers so bear with me if this was suggested, if you get spotted by a DD why slow down and smoke? why not speed up and zigzag your way into safety. or you could turn out and set a smoke behind you , neptune and mino both make a 180 with the second smokepuff. in my book slowing and smoking is a bad thing when being spotted and aimed at, the blindsmokeshooters have become way too good to take that risk.

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On 9/9/2019 at 5:14 PM, Duecut said:

This keeps happening (3rd time today)

 

As soon as the RN cruiser is Spotted, its dead. Which during the game I can accept (as its probably because did something wrong or didn't see an enemy whatever or got out played, I can accept that), but this is happening before I'm even properly out of the spawn, I cant get anywhere near cover or even activate smoke.

 

In the case screenshot-ed I came out of the spawn at half throttle (deliberately not rushing) and instantly smoked as soon as I was spotted (which was by a DD) AND I was at less than a 30degree angle to all enemy ships (within line of sight). As soon as the DD Spotted me 3 BB's targeted me and fired, the first to get a salvo off mostly missed me (it  took roughly +/- 1000Hp with a single shell that hit the Superstructure), the 3rd one was bang on target but that didn't matter because the 2nd one completely deleted me (and 2/3 of the shells didn't hit me).

 

This kind of thing doesn't happen with any other ship line and the community knows it, else why is everyone so keen to target RN cruisers when there are far more threatening targets to them? Answer they are the seagulls out of Finding Nemo ("Mine", "Mine")

 

So please WG show a little love to the RN Cruisers, It doesn't need a big fix, a little bit of an armour buff or move the citadel slightly, but I would like to play a game not sit in a loading queue for longer than it takes to play a round.

Lad, this happens precisely BECAUSE everyone knows how much damage an RN Cruiser can do if you let it escape and smoke up, then plaster you with an unending torrent of shells. This feature is precisely why they are always a PRIORITY target for any competent enemy team - So this means that EVERY enemy ship in range and their mother is going to be focus-firing at you in order to kill you quickly (yes, this is personal, make no mistake here). So why this keeps happening is basically your own failure to anticipate situations and the consequent enemy action. Not to worry, I had the exact same-ish problem, when starting to play Mogami (it also gets focused on a lot but alas, no smoke to the rescue). So no worries, we can work on that, below some suggestions. :cap_old:

 

The problem is not, that there is something wrong with the ship, they are in fact working exactly as they were designed to be. They can hide in smoke, this is why they are fragile. The thing is you have to anticipate all this and plan for it in advance. So therefore, if you are unexpectedly spotted DO NOT slow down and try to go into smoke, it is already far too late for that and you will get citadelled, because the enemy has already fired anticipating for you to do just that. If caught in the open you can smoke, but make a sharp handbrake-turn (short engine reverse, start full turn, then back to full speed again while still turning - this allows your ship to "turn on a dime") and make your turn under the cover of smoke instead (nothing prevents you from slowly returning to that smoke to fire from there for a while if you want to, but carefully, there will also be torps incoming). Do not delay, react immediately, you only have max 10 seconds to execute before the first shells will start landing. You should also plan so that when approaching a cap zone, let a friendly DD go some 5-6km in front of you, so he will hopefully be able to spot the enemy DD before the enemy DD even sees you, then break, smoke and fire only after concealed. You can also anticipate this happening in advance and smoke when in good position behind the cap - Preferably next to an island, so you can fire over the corner of the island into cap zone and escape behind it in case of incoming torps , enemies or when smoke ends. Try these first and let us know how it goes from there. :cap_like:

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[KAKE]
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It's really only the Neptune that's the odd duck. While her firepower is significantly improved from Edinburgh, she's got significantly worse concealment than her predecessor while at the same time being noticeably less tanky.

 

Minotaur is great, though, and well worth the grind.

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Well, I've been almost out of the game for 2 months but I don't think things have changed about RN CL usage. Although I've only played Leander in operations and radar Minotaur recently, they still are the squishy, high skill ships they used to be. Having fingers glued to A and D is almost mandatory regardless of the general way you play them and Priority Target the absolute captain skill.

 

18 hours ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

Slap radar on that girl and farm DDs :cap_haloween:

That's pretty viable with Edinburgh and Minotaur (I play the latter almost exclusively like that as a DD hunter and utility ship), but Neptune is the weak link high in the chain no matter if played with radar or smoke: as others have pointed out, her citadel is quite high and she has the worst concealment of the bunch, outreaching the radar range unlike the others. There is (or was, correct me if it's outdated info) also the fact that her concealment firing from smoke is also worse by a long shot.

 

18 hours ago, Padds01 said:

anyway almost simultaeneous broadside exchanged , felt pretty good about my chances my 12 fast firing guns vs his 6. 12 hits , a few k damage disapo.. i exploded dead in one salvo , over 48k done to me, no detonation, just one shot by a t7 dd

18 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

How about no?

Most likely something else blapped you, and the DD just got a few k damage in for the kill. Even if he would have gotten 6 Citadels, it couldnt be more than 12k damage or so.

I agree, it has to be something else and big blapping at the same time. With neither Detonation nor eating one or two torpedoes that's impossible: Neptune and Minotaur need around 10 citadels plus some extra shelling from guns of their same caliber to be sunk.

 

Salute.

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4 hours ago, Uglesett said:

It's really only the Neptune that's the odd duck. While her firepower is significantly improved from Edinburgh, she's got significantly worse concealment than her predecessor while at the same time being noticeably less tanky.

 

Minotaur is great, though, and well worth the grind.

This in a nutshell..Apart from the dpm she feels/plays completely different to the 2 ships either side in the tree imo and she's the one I like playing least from the line. Almost sluggish for her tier.  I agree citadel needs to be lowered or ad least that "step up" in it needs to go. its also one of the biggest citadels in relative size to the ship. In that respect its a floating pinyata. High damage, high risk, High skill Boat.

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i dropped the smoke on the Edinburgh and got radar instead, i've had much better games in it as i don't now rely on smoke and make sure my positioning is much better

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5 hours ago, Estaca_de_Bares said:

That's pretty viable with Edinburgh and Minotaur (I play the latter almost exclusively like that as a DD hunter and utility ship), but Neptune is the weak link high in the chain no matter if played with radar or smoke: as others have pointed out, her citadel is quite high and she has the worst concealment of the bunch, outreaching the radar range unlike the others. There is (or was, correct me if it's outdated info) also the fact that her concealment firing from smoke is also worse by a long shot.

So who expects a Neptune with radar? I had a pretty good run in her with radar. Haven't played the line with smoke yet.

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nah...giving them 30mm sidearmor or making them so small that ap doesnt arm would make them completely broken. they are so powerfull, that they even cant get he ammo for their guns, because good concealment+he+fast firerate+smoke+hydro would make them completely overpowerd and wouldnt be fun to play against "they" (WG) said...so dont ever expect a ship to have all of this...

 

oh, wait...

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My personal opinion:

-Caledon: fine. Nice mix of DD and CL

-Danae: fine. Same as Caledon.

-Emerald: meh. Was one of the worst moments of the RN CL line for me.

-Leander: great. Things started to look up from here. First ship in the line that shows what the line will be like.

-Fiji: frickin awesome. Easily the best time I had in this game. For me the best silver ship, maybe together with Lightning.

-Edinborough: meh. My second hurdle I had to cross. Didn't see eye to eye with this one either.

-Neptune: great. Same as Leander, this ship, although having a big [edited], did a lot of good things for me. 

-Minotaur: frickin awesome. Handles like a charm, blots the sky with it's shells and has good concealment. My first T10 and proud of it.

 

Overall line: 10/10. These ships are ultra fragile, made of cardboard andcneed a smart captain. A ship for the opportunist and those that keep track of the overall battle so they know where to place themselves. Super AP is awefully effective against all types of ship and the line got a lot of great tools like radar, hydro, smoke and super accel. Takes forever to stop though or to move forward after having reversed. 

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neptune is for me the worst ship in the game absolotue worthless pos that doesnt have anything close to the tools to do its job always assumed they just deliberately made it a complete dog so people paid to skip it. but it and emerald are the only two lemons , and the fiji was great. 

 

really bad choice of a line for me , i hate this camping sit at the back passive play it bores me senseless always getting killed because i was up front bored of waiting for the BB /DD to do anything.  they seem weak compared to the others to me , but i wouldnt want to see them buffed theres enough BS island humping spam going on as it is. Fun and Engaging as it is.

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[ENUF]
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The only thing that really sucks about british Cl is that they don't have a premium (I'm not gonna count Belfast).

 

Meanwhile there are 14! russian premium cruisers. I mean WTF WG? Just give me something like Sheffield oder Dido already.

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15 hours ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

So who expects a Neptune with radar? I had a pretty good run in her with radar. Haven't played the line with smoke yet.

Sure, it's an unexpected way of playing. I did it at first like that before the change to a flat concealment rule and my stats show I wasn't as effective with her as with Edinburgh or Minotaur, but maybe things have changed.

 

Off topic but speaking of unexpected things, I faced yesterday a Kagero that played with TASM1 instead of the usual CSM1. It was a nasty surprise charging toward his smoke (I also was in Kagero) and being spotted by proximity first, which denied the surprise knife fight and got me the short end of the stick.

 

Salute.

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4 minutes ago, Estaca_de_Bares said:

Off topic but speaking of unexpected things, I faced yesterday a Kagero that played with TASM1 instead of the usual CSM1. It was a nasty surprise charging toward his smoke (I also was in Kagero) and being spotted by proximity first, which denied the surprise knife fight and got me the short end of the stick.

 

If its stupid but works, its still stupid :Smile_hiding:

How often did that guy die because of the concealment disadvantage? The problem is, you see those guys with TAM all the time... and then once in a blue moon they screw someone over because they managed to sit behind an island. Doesnt change the simple fact, that you get more advantages from the better concealment.

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The Neptune for me was the big stumbling block in the line (I don't count the Emerald, it used to suck but after the buff I don't know). The combination of a raised citadel, bigger size and worse detection came as a bit of a shock compared to the Edinburgh which I did like, so the adjustment period took a while. And since I spent most of my first games getting blapped I played it less and less so when I did dust it off I had almost forgot how to play it and back to blapping we went.

 

In the end though I decided to power through it during a 200% weekend, and while I still don't really like it I accept that it is atleast not a weak ship, just awkward to make work as it breaks the progression in terms of stealth mostly.

 

Minotaur is 100% worth it though and just fun as all hell.

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On 9/9/2019 at 10:28 PM, lovelacebeer said:

I really enjoy the British cruisers, I'm currently regrinding them for the NTC and they are very powerful.

 

They are however a high risk high reward class to play, their fragility is designed to balance out against their high damage potential. The very brave or skilled can handle playing Neptune and Mino with radar instead of smoke and they are amazing DD hunters, but I lack the skill for that. So it's safer to run with smoke and play support to your Destroyers, that way then you can smoke up and shoot with someone else doing the spotting. 

 

Also quick word of advice don't just smoke up and shoot make sure you have an exit strategy for when the smoke runs out.

Pretty much this - and I also checked the statistics for the RN CL line for the last 6 months and the only ship in the line that looks like it potentially could use a bit of love would be the Emerald, all other RN CLs should be fine. It's definitely one of the trickiest cruiser lines to learn to play but once you do, these ships are very powerful and also fun to play. You also get the option to choose between a radar and smoke build, which opens up interesting options for this line.

 

Greetings, Crysantos

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On 9/9/2019 at 6:28 PM, mtm78 said:

Every RN cruiser I played is plenty gud man.....

 

Except Nep. Nep is just a turd, citadel to big and exposed, not enough concealment and handling feels off compared with the ships before and after.

 

Neptune doesn't need armor, it needs a lower citadel. If all the battleships except Russians can sit broadside without to much issues, why can't a Neptune get some lowered citadel love? And this is only for Neptune, the ships before are fine, and I think tier X as well.

 

edit: 

Wait... since when has nep not been a turd?

 

 

I loved the Neptune... 

 

Sure it was back to being a cruiser, after playing that oversized destroyer Edin meme machine, but the dakka is basically on par with the Mino. 

 

It's the Cleveland to Pensacola effect from cbt all over again! 

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1 hour ago, ollonborre said:

it is atleast not a weak ship, just awkward to make work as it breaks the progression in terms of stealth mostly.

This.

 

Basically, it requires a significantly different play style to what you've gotten used to in the previous ships in the line. You have to not move quite as close to caps as you're used to, you have to rethink a lot of map positions that you've used successfully in the Edinburgh and Fiji... it all adds up. For me at least it was enough to put me well below the solid 50+% winrate that I'd enjoyed in every other ship in the line since the Emerald.

 

The concealment difference makes it require a fair bit of adjustment, and for me at least I just never got to the point where she really gelled with me before I was already past her and on to the Mino (in which I'm doing fairly well so far).

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