WG please show the RN Cruisers some Love

[Duecut]

This keeps happening (3rd time today)

 

 

As soon as the RN cruiser is Spotted, its dead. Which during the game I can accept (as its probably because did something wrong or didn't see an enemy whatever or got out played, I can accept that), but this is happening before I'm even properly out of the spawn, I cant get anywhere near cover or even activate smoke.

 

In the case screenshot-ed I came out of the spawn at half throttle (deliberately not rushing) and instantly smoked as soon as I was spotted (which was by a DD) AND I was at less than a 30degree angle to all enemy ships (within line of sight). As soon as the DD Spotted me 3 BB's targeted me and fired, the first to get a salvo off mostly missed me (it  took roughly +/- 1000Hp with a single shell that hit the Superstructure), the 3rd one was bang on target but that didn't matter because the 2nd one completely deleted me (and 2/3 of the shells didn't hit me).

 

This kind of thing doesn't happen with any other ship line and the community knows it, else why is everyone so keen to target RN cruisers when there are far more threatening targets to them? Answer they are the seagulls out of Finding Nemo ("Mine", "Mine")

 

So please WG show a little love to the RN Cruisers, It doesn't need a big fix, a little bit of an armour buff or move the citadel slightly, but I would like to play a game not sit in a loading queue for longer than it takes to play a round.

 

Thanks

Duecut

 

PS the Ship I was playing was the Neptune

[Tyrendian89]

easy solution. dont put yourself into a position where you can be the first guy spotted by an enemy DD. (doesnt work against planes ofc, but thats a wholly different discussion...) Least of all in the Neptune...

 

RN CLs dont need a survivability buff - they just need a halfway competent captain...

[mtm78]

Every RN cruiser I played is plenty gud man.....

 

Except Nep. Nep is just a turd, citadel to big and exposed, not enough concealment and handling feels off compared with the ships before and after.

 

Neptune doesn't need armor, it needs a lower citadel. If all the battleships except Russians can sit broadside without to much issues, why can't a Neptune get some lowered citadel love? And this is only for Neptune, the ships before are fine, and I think tier X as well.

 

edit: 

Just now, Tyrendian89 said:

RN CLs dont need a survivability buff - they just need a halfway competent captain...

Wait... since when has nep not been a turd?

[Excavatus]

That line, especially Neptune and Mino are extremely powerful ships when played correctly.

Yes they get deleted very fast If you show yourself to the enemy. But thats what keep them balanced.

 

On the case though,

If you are detected by the enemy DD, that means your positioning is horribly horribly wrong.

why didn't you have your friendly DD infront of you?

Why didn't you take a route towards the cap with an island in between,

why are you so close to that position?

Why don't you use detection circles on your minimap, which prevents you bad positioning..

which means, you keep your detection circle "not fully covering the cap" so that way, If a DD comes near, you'll understand it from the cap counter before getting detected..

etc etc..

 

I am not a good RN captain I think.. Because I have amazing friends who play them..

But they really don't need love on the armor department..

 

But regardless, with the future IFHE changes, they will get some though :)

[Tyrendian89]

2 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

Wait... since when has nep not been a turd?

since it was released pretty much?

Not saying it's a highlight of the line - it does have rather crummy concealment relative to the rest of the line, and the citadel is massive - but it's hardly a turd, way too much firepower for that.

[mtm78]

4 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:

since it was released pretty much?

Not saying it's a highlight of the line - it does have rather crummy concealment relative to the rest of the line, and the citadel is massive - but it's hardly a turd, way too much firepower for that.

 

Meh I could work Edin and Fiji is the highlight off the line but I can't grind Nep without getting a headache :( Also, firepower? If I could take out Edin and grind that in tier 9 MM to unlock Mino I would be sooo glad. Like how we could grind Yamato from Amagi since there was no ship in between. Neptune has a bad rep, and maybe those bad reps carry over to hard in my mind but I just can't stand playing her. 

 

edit: isn't Neptune like just above Ibuki in global wr? And while I could work with Ibuki even old one got me good results, Neptune in my hands would be absolute bottom of the pile. 

 

 

[ForlornSailor]

9 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

Except Nep. Nep is just a turd, citadel to big and exposed, not enough concealment and handling feels off compared with the ships before and after.

 

Muh Neptune. One of my favourite ships. But I dont understand the reason for the worse concealment / smoke firing penalty either.

 

@Duecut as you see from the replies, its rather a player problem. Why dont you post some replays and get some help, how to play them? Im sure I can help you out, but I need to see some gameplay from you.

 

[DFens_666]

RN CLs arent the easiest Cruisers to play - and Cruisers arent easy to play to begin with

You really have to work with your concealment with Neptune. Dont push too far ahead, when you expect a DD being there. If you are spotted, have to slowdown and smoke up, you are food for BBs. They can hold their fire till you are almost standing still, and then they can punish you.

If you expect getting spotted soon, slow down to halfspeed in advance, then the smoke will conceal you faster.

 

10 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

Neptune doesn't need armor, it needs a lower citadel.

I think, Neptune needs a slight concealment buff (<10km) and same for smoke fireing debuff (<6km). There is no reason that its >10km and >6km. Otherwise, Neptune is good.

[mtm78]

6 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Muh Neptune. One of my favourite ships. But I dont understand the reason for the worse concealment / smoke firing penalty either.

 

@Duecut as you see from the replies, its rather a player problem. Why dont you post some replays and get some help, how to play them? Im sure I can help you out, but I need to see some gameplay from you.

 

 

How many of these been solo? 

 

Also->

 

Seems Neptune is not doing that well ( though they are all really close, closer than I think I seen them in a long time

 

That is overall stats btw, this is top 5% Top players change it around, Neptune suddenly becomes one of the best. But again, I don't think many of these games are played solo at all. 

 

edit:

 

4 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

I think, Neptune needs a slight concealment buff (<10km) and same for smoke fireing debuff (<6km). There is no reason that its >10km and >6km. Otherwise, Neptune is good.

 

That would make more sense as it bring the line characteristics back ( all of them have 'good' concealment and workable debuff ). A lowered citadel would only limit the punishment it takes due to being so much easier to spot. 

 

@ForlornSailor I haven't played Nep in a long time I don't have any replays from recent patches but that's mostly because imho it feels Neptune only does good in divisions. If you have a considerable amount of games in Neptune solo and still those performance indicators I would love to division with you and see what I'm doing wrong

[ForlornSailor]

1 minute ago, mtm78 said:

Seems Neptune is not doing that well ( though they are all really close, closer than I think I seen them in a long time

 

I actually told MrConway, that the battlecruisers make other T9s and especially the Neptune suffer but apperently spreadsheet says "Neptune is fine".

 

3 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

How many of these been solo? 

 

2 (But I won those aswell xD)

 

But yea, Neptune is great in a division, especially when you have a DD screening for you and vice versa - when you can support a DD, no denying that.

 

Thats why I actually argued for a buff like... a year ago or so? But I got shut down in the forums, since with stats like mine, its not allowed to ask for a buff (and as we see, neither are people with bad stats allowed to ask for ships buff, cuz l2p. conclusion --> can never ask for ship buffs in the forums). But honestly, concealment needs to be more in line with Edin/Mino. Everything else is ok imo.

[Tyrendian89]

15 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

 

Meh I could work Edin and Fiji is the highlight off the line but I can't grind Nep without getting a headache :( Also, firepower? If I could take out Edin and grind that in tier 9 MM to unlock Mino I would be sooo glad. Like how we could grind Yamato from Amagi since there was no ship in between. Neptune has a bad rep, and maybe those bad reps carry over to hard in my mind but I just can't stand playing her. 

 

edit: isn't Neptune like just above Ibuki in global wr? And while I could work with Ibuki even old one got me good results, Neptune in my hands would be absolute bottom of the pile. 

 

 

yeah okay I will admit you sucked a bit in the Neptune

dunno, I ended the grind above 100k average (half of it solo with only slightly worse stats), so I've almost definitely got a positive bias towards a ship that worked pretty well for me... as per usual with these discussions, YMMV greatly

[Duecut]

3 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

That line, especially Neptune and Mino are extremely powerful ships when played correctly.

Yes they get deleted very fast If you show yourself to the enemy. But thats what keep them balanced.

 

On the case though,

If you are detected by the enemy DD, that means your positioning is horribly horribly wrong.

why didn't you have your friendly DD infront of you?

Why didn't you take a route towards the cap with an island in between,

why are you so close to that position?

Why don't you use detection circles on your minimap, which prevents you bad positioning..

which means, you keep your detection circle "not fully covering the cap" so that way, If a DD comes near, you'll understand it from the cap counter before getting detected..

etc etc..

 

I am not a good RN captain I think.. Because I have amazing friends who play them..

But they really don't need love on the armor department..

 

But regardless, with the future IFHE changes, they will get some though :)

Thanks but all the points raised just confirm the issue

 

On the case Answers:

- Positioning, didn't have an option Spawning in the NW corner of "North" Map, its nowhere near anything I generally move eastwards towards the nearest island

- I did have a friendly DD in front, by about 7 km, but he didn't seen the Enemy DD and he must have been on the near side of the nearest Cap

- For Cap Question see first answer

- My point was I wasn't close, in fact the BBs the fired at me were so far beyond my Range that I would have had to wait a further minute before I could ever fire at them

- I do use the Detection Circles and have both Surface and Air Circles live on all of my ships, the Surface detection circle was just inside the nearest Cap 

 

Other occasions its being spotted with a Aircraft or one of the French DDs (that seem to get inside your detection circle very quickly)

 

I'm not saying it needs more armour, just that it needs something, improved ricochet angles or something. If I am completely broadside then yeah it would be completely my fault, but I'm not. I'm angled (so I'm not overmatched on the bow), I'm at the max range of the enemy, I'm doing all the "right" things (according to the guides and what CC's recommended) 

[Padds01]

i am not good with RN cruisers , got as far as neptune and then shelved them , got it out of mothballs for a game last night , rounded a corner and came side by side of a t7 IJN DD who judging by how long it took him to swing guns and torps round to me was equally as surprised as i was to meet there. 

 

anyway almost simultaeneous broadside exchanged , felt pretty good about my chances my 12 fast firing guns vs his 6. 12 hits , a few k damage disapo.. i exploded dead in one salvo , over 48k done to me, no detonation, just one shot by a t7 dd 

 

yeah ill come back to these when there isnt enough pain in my life.

[mtm78]

2 minutes ago, Padds01 said:

i exploded dead in one salvo , over 48k done to me, no detonation, just one shot by a t7 dd 

 

No, that did not happen. A replay would show what happened. It's more likely he shot torpedoes for 48k damage as he took out 48k of your hp in a single salvo from his guns. Maybe you got hit by a battleship you didn't notice while playing, as what you're describing is just not possible. 

[DFens_666]

2 minutes ago, Padds01 said:

anyway almost simultaeneous broadside exchanged , felt pretty good about my chances my 12 fast firing guns vs his 6. 12 hits , a few k damage disapo.. i exploded dead in one salvo , over 48k done to me, no detonation, just one shot by a t7 dd  

 

How about no?

Most likely something else blapped you, and the DD just got a few k damage in for the kill. Even if he would have gotten 6 Citadels, it couldnt be more than 12k damage or so.

 

8 minutes ago, Duecut said:

I'm not saying it needs more armour, just that it needs something, improved ricochet angles or something. If I am completely broadside then yeah it would be completely my fault, but I'm not. I'm angled (so I'm not overmatched on the bow), I'm at the max range of the enemy, I'm doing all the "right" things (according to the guides and what CC's recommended)  

 

Better post some replays here. Just add the replay file from the game here, maybe we can point out a mistake.

9 minutes ago, Duecut said:

- I do use the Detection Circles and have both Surface and Air Circles live on all of my ships, the Surface detection circle was just inside the nearest Cap  

I consider this already to be a mistake. So the DD could spot your BEFORE he entered the cap? If he would enter the cap first, then you could react to it

[Duecut]

17 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Muh Neptune. One of my favourite ships. But I dont understand the reason for the worse concealment / smoke firing penalty either.

 

@Duecut as you see from the replies, its rather a player problem. Why dont you post some replays and get some help, how to play them? Im sure I can help you out, but I need to see some gameplay from you.

 

Thanks for the offer, I'm always willing to accept that I probably Forked up. But the problem is I change the way I play if it keeps getting me killed, and its making no difference.

 

Its happened once more today, and this time I chose to sit right behind a BB (a Tirpitz) to get to the nearest cover (no doubt to the teams displeasure) and as soon as the aircraft from the carrier spotted me all ships in the area changed target to me (all 5 of them in this case), its like a competition to see who can get their shots off first.

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

Slap radar on that girl and farm DDs 

[Duecut]

3 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

I consider this already to be a mistake. So the DD could spot your BEFORE he entered the cap? If he would enter the cap first, then you could react to it

I probably didn't describe it clearly think figure of 8, my detection circle was just inside my nearest point of the cap.

[ForlornSailor]

7 minutes ago, Duecut said:

as soon as the aircraft from the carrier spotted me all ships in the area changed target to me (all 5 of them in this case), its like a competition to see who can get their shots off first.

 

Thats quite normal, when you play a RN CL, especially Neptune and Minotaur. Many players know, how weak their armor is and that a spotted RN CL actually spells "XP Pinata". So you need to avoid those situations. Pay attention in carrier games. You see the planes before they spot you. Act accordingly. Either smoke up, angle towards the enemys or get yourself behind an island to block shots from the enemys. Then wait until the CV is gone or you shot down the planes. Luckily, RN CLs AA is quite good so no intelligent CV wants to stay close to you for a long time.

[RenamedUser_92906789]

1 hour ago, mtm78 said:

Every RN cruiser I played is plenty gud man.....

 

Except Nep. Nep is just a turd, citadel to big and exposed, not enough concealment and handling feels off compared with the ships before and after.

 

Neptune doesn't need armor, it needs a lower citadel. If all the battleships except Russians can sit broadside without to much issues, why can't a Neptune get some lowered citadel love? And this is only for Neptune, the ships before are fine, and I think tier X as well.

 

edit: 

Wait... since when has nep not been a turd?

 

What bugged me with Neptune most, was the smoke firing detection penalty (was grinding the Neptune when the change was put live).

Don't know how she is now ... but that's how I remember her.

[mtm78]

1 hour ago, nambr9 said:

 

What bugged me with Neptune most, was the smoke firing detection penalty (was grinding the Neptune when the change was put live).

Don't know how she is now ... but that's how I remember her.

 

It's ~9km iirc ( edit: nope nope nope it's 6.6 right? ) , wasn't it mentioned above. And yes, that's terrible. But for me it was mostly the concealment, with all the previous one's you can be a sneaky breaky light cruiser, and with Neptune I don't feel like a sneaky light cruiser I feel like a giant floating citadel which will explode when looked at funny ( though not by tier 7 IJN DD's :) ). 

 

2 hours ago, ForlornSailor said:

 

Thats quite normal, when you play a RN CL, especially Neptune and Minotaur. Many players know, how weak their armor is and that a spotted RN CL actually spells "XP Pinata". So you need to avoid those situations. Pay attention in carrier games. You see the planes before they spot you. Act accordingly. Either smoke up, angle towards the enemys or get yourself behind an island to block shots from the enemys. Then wait until the CV is gone or you shot down the planes. Luckily, RN CLs AA is quite good so no intelligent CV wants to stay close to you for a long time.

 

That's just it, if I play like that I end up doing very insignificant damage. Most BB's don't give broadside to RN CL's anymore I feel, and what I did feel to be more significant damage in the previous ships was also more to destroyers or supporting cruisers. I feel I can't engage destroyers and cruisers on the same terms with Neptune, which just makes the while line progression feel very weird since Mino takes that a step beyond what the previous ships could do, it's just Neptune which suddenly forces you to play different. 

[DFens_666]

7 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

I feel I can't engage destroyers and cruisers on the same terms with Neptune,

 

Could be, because all the BCs are on T9, so if you take Neptune, its more likely that enemies get Kron/Alaska/Azuma which can just lol-cit you from everywhere. Ontop of having more HP aswell.

 

 

[mtm78]

8 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Could be, because all the BCs are on T9, so if you take Neptune, its more likely that enemies get Kron/Alaska/Azuma which can just lol-cit you from everywhere. Ontop of having more HP aswell.

 

I think I felt the same before those got added, I mean I had Neptune in port for a long time already... 

 

So it's not that, it's engagement ranges are longer while ballistics are the same = less effective. In smoke, Neptune is so big it takes way more blind fire damage, and if smoke get's torped you wish you had an Edin instead. Feels like Neptune is twice as 'fat'. 

 

 

 

[Padds01]

1 hour ago, mtm78 said:

 

No, that did not happen. A replay would show what happened. It's more likely he shot torpedoes for 48k damage as he took out 48k of your hp in a single salvo from his guns. Maybe you got hit by a battleship you didn't notice while playing, as what you're describing is just not possible. 

did look for the replay but it must be too old. i talked to the guy in chat at the time, had to check if detonation just didnt display in my screen , he was surprised about it to and we chatted a bit , he said it was just one salvo from the guns "just 4 crits" which i assume he meant citaels ,no torps he had just sent them other side of the island , he did get a dev strike out of it. but neither of us understood it. 

maybe some bug (shells hitting multiple times , is that a thing?) or maybe something else did have los on me round that island , but im pretty certain they didnt as i was turning because the detected light had just come on.

[DFens_666]

4 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

 

I think I felt the same before those got added, I mean I had Neptune in port for a long time already...

 

 

Imo the worst Cruisers to fight before the BCs got added were US CAs because of their improved pen angled. The others should be less of a problem because you can angle, and HE spam should be possible to tank because of the heal. Even with bad concealment, you can outspot most others.

But maybe it just got worse over time with all the camping going on.