Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Maihon

HMS Renown (1944)

17 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

[TAW]
Players
202 posts
6,364 battles

How about HMS Renown as per 1944 build as a T8 large cruiser?

 

1944_hms_renown_david_buell.jpg.00a58026f2856e491dc3b7a278b9ae65.jpg

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
1,221 posts
6,354 battles

I think she would work better at tier 6 as a battleship. Warspite guns, minus one turret, and less armoured, but fast. And IIRC after her 1930s refit, she got torpedo launchers above deck (kinda like Tirpitz).

  • Cool 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[LAFIE]
Beta Tester
2,918 posts
3,640 battles
17 hours ago, Robber_Baron said:

I think she would work better at tier 6 as a battleship. Warspite guns, minus one turret, and less armoured, but fast. And IIRC after her 1930s refit, she got torpedo launchers above deck (kinda like Tirpitz).

Faster too, good for about 30 knots iirc, which is pretty fast for a tier 6 bb.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[TAW]
Players
202 posts
6,364 battles

No I still rather fancy her as a Tier 8 large cruiser especially with her 1944 AA suite and you're forgetting agile which if she goes in as a Tier 6 BB WG will conveniently forget to give her :)

  • Bad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
2,637 posts
2,855 battles

If I got to choose, I'd much rather have a fast British battleship at tier 6 than another tier 8 cruiser. It would make a pleasant companion to the Grand Old Lady, and a perfect fit for those operations where you need a bit of speed in order to get around.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
18 posts
4,802 battles

I think the main issue with having Renown '44 as a battleship in game, is that her belt seems to have been 152mm at it's thickest, which is not quite up to BB standards (QE Class has 330mm belt). Dunkerque has 225mm belt, which might be the lowest in game at T6, and it goes at 29.5 knots, Renown was 31.

If you gave it a submerged/waterline citadel, good concealment, and maybe Graf Spee dispersion to counteract only having 6 guns, it might be able to work as an unconventional T6 BB. I don't think having sub 30s reload would be accurate to RL though, and all the other 15 inch guns of that type are 30s in game as well (exceptions being Monarch and Vanguard at T8, where the lower reload is a bit more warranted).

 

If you go for a historical tier placement T6 BB slot is probably the place, it's where I'd like to see her, but I'd be worried about noobs getting deleted if they played it, expecting it to be able to tank, and more experienced people taking advantage of possible soft stats propping it up to BB levels.

 

If it goes as a T8 Cruiser though, you would have issues with its guns being able to overmatch T6/7 BB armour, which isn't quite fair to other T8 cruisers.

  • Bad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[S-O-M]
Players
336 posts
5,493 battles

Didn't they rename it revenge ?, same class as the much requested Royal Sovereign, btw the class was Royal Sovereign, aka Revenge class.

 

This could be a T7 Prem for Both the RN and Russians, who were loaned it from 1944-1949 and they called it Arkhangelesk, dual captains ?.

 

A lot would also like to see Rodney, complete with Torps ;-).

 

WG could give us many "historic" ships either, as free xp, tech tree or to purchase, but instead give us high tier paper premiums.

  • Bad 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SCRUB]
Supertester, Players, Sailing Hamster
3,343 posts
3,708 battles
On 9/13/2019 at 5:19 PM, MadBadDave said:

Didn't they rename it revenge ?, same class as the much requested Royal Sovereign, btw the class was Royal Sovereign, aka Revenge class.

 

This could be a T7 Prem for Both the RN and Russians, who were loaned it from 1944-1949 and they called it Arkhangelesk, dual captains ?.

 

A lot would also like to see Rodney, complete with Torps ;-).

 

WG could give us many "historic" ships either, as free xp, tech tree or to purchase, but instead give us high tier paper premiums.

 

Revenge was the lead ship of the R class BB's.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[HAIFU]
Players
519 posts
4,949 battles
On 9/13/2019 at 3:53 PM, BraveExpress said:

I think the main issue with having Renown '44 as a battleship in game, is that her belt seems to have been 152mm at it's thickest, which is not quite up to BB standards (QE Class has 330mm belt). Dunkerque has 225mm belt, which might be the lowest in game at T6, and it goes at 29.5 knots, Renown was 31.

In WWI they had 6" belt armour, but both Renown and Repulse got modified with a thicker belt of 9". That's 229mm, much more competitive for T6.

 

On 9/13/2019 at 3:53 PM, BraveExpress said:

If you gave it a submerged/waterline citadel, good concealment, and maybe Graf Spee dispersion to counteract only having 6 guns, it might be able to work as an unconventional T6 BB. I don't think having sub 30s reload would be accurate to RL though, and all the other 15 inch guns of that type are 30s in game as well (exceptions being Monarch and Vanguard at T8, where the lower reload is a bit more warranted).

I'd like to see Vanguard's dispersion on these guns, that would make it a very accurate ship yet relatively fragile when compared to a Bayern, for example.

 

On 9/9/2019 at 8:00 PM, Robber_Baron said:

I think she would work better at tier 6 as a battleship. Warspite guns, minus one turret, and less armoured, but fast. And IIRC after her 1930s refit, she got torpedo launchers above deck (kinda like Tirpitz).

I wasn't aware of these torpedo tubes, looks like it was four per side so I assume they would be the ones the Leander class use. I would assume they were removed for more AA guns by 1944, though I haven't found anything that suggests this. The torpedoes could give it a little sting if it gets to close range by accident.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
18 posts
4,802 battles
On 9/16/2019 at 7:47 PM, Centurion_1711 said:

In WWI they had 6" belt armour, but both Renown and Repulse got modified with a thicker belt of 9". That's 229mm, much more competitive for T6.

 

I'd like to see Vanguard's dispersion on these guns, that would make it a very accurate ship yet relatively fragile when compared to a Bayern, for example.

 

I wasn't aware of these torpedo tubes, looks like it was four per side so I assume they would be the ones the Leander class use. I would assume they were removed for more AA guns by 1944, though I haven't found anything that suggests this. The torpedoes could give it a little sting if it gets to close range by accident.

My mistake, yeah that's totes fine considering Dunk's belt.

 

I'm concerned that the loss of the 4th turret compared to Warspite would mean that using Warspite's dispersion on Renown wouldn't be enough to keep it's damage up to standard. There's still it's AA to consider as well though, which should be quite formidable for T6. AA is one of the biggest differences between QE and Warspite, and Renown has the same DP secondaries as QE, and a bunch of 20mms.

 

I'd prefer not to take power out of the guns to allow for torps, but it could be an alternative to main battery accuracy buff to balance out the low gun count, or just a gimmick.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[PKTZS]
Weekend Tester
2,453 posts
15,883 battles

Renown torpedo tubes were fixed inside the hull, not trainable ones on deck like in Tirpitz.

 

AtyDRf0.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
535 posts
9,257 battles
On 9/18/2019 at 9:36 AM, JapLance said:

Renown torpedo tubes were fixed inside the hull, not trainable ones on deck like in Tirpitz.

She had a refit between December 1943 and January 1944 while she was with the Home Fleet. The catapult was removed and replaced with deck mounted tubes and more Oerlikons.

17-3594392-hms-renown-1944b.thumb.jpg.94facef1d085ce359aa40427b3bee463.jpg

Super Cruiser stats

  Renown '44 Alaska Kronshtadt Siegfried
Length 242.0m 246.4m 250.5m 256m
Beam 27.4m 27.8m 31.6m 30m
Draft 9.7m 9.7m 9.45m 8.02m
Displacement 36,660t 30,257t 25,250t 35,968t
Speed 31knots 33knots 33.5knots 33.5knots
Armament 6x381mm 9x305mm 9x305mm 6x380mm
  20x114mm 12x127mm 8x100mm 14x128mm
  8x533mm torps   8x152mm 8x533mm torps
AA 61x20mm 34x20mm 12x12.7mm 48x20mm
  28x40mm 56x40mm 28x37mm 16x55mm
  20x114mm 12x127mm 8x100mm 14x128mm
Edited by DanSilverwing
Revised AA as of final configuration December 1943. Source: Maurice P. Northcott Renown and Repulse 1978
  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
18 posts
4,802 battles
1 hour ago, DanSilverwing said:

She had a refit between December 1943 and January 1944 while she was with the Home Fleet. The catapult was removed and replaced with deck mounted tubes and more Oerlikons.

17-3594392-hms-renown-1944b.thumb.jpg.94facef1d085ce359aa40427b3bee463.jpg

Super Cruiser stats

  Renown '44 Alaska Kronshtadt Siegfried
Length 242.0m 246.4m 250.5m 256m
Beam 27.4m 27.8m 31.6m 30m
Draft 9.7m 9.7m 9.45m 8.02m
Displacement 36,660t 30,257t 25,250t 35,968t
Speed 31knots 33knots 33.5knots 33.5knots
Armament 6x381mm 9x305mm 9x305mm 6x380mm
  20x114mm 12x127mm 8x100mm 14x128mm
  8x533mm torps   8x152mm 8x533mm torps
AA 16x12.7mm 34x20mm 12x12.7mm 48x20mm
  24x40mm 56x40mm 28x37mm 16x55mm
  20x114mm 12x127mm 8x100mm 14x128mm

Stealing your format and comparing Renown 44' to the  existing T6 Battlecruisers in game

 

  Renown '44 Dunkerque Izmail PEF
Length 242.0m 214.5m 223.85m 223m
Beam 27.4m 31.08m 30.5m 30.4m
Draft 9.7m 8.7m 8.81m 9.3m
Displacement 36,660t 35,500t 37,234t 35,300t
Speed 31knots 29.5knots 28.5knots 28knots
Armament 6x381mm 8x330mm 12x356mm 8x350mm
  20x114mm 16x130mm 18x130mm 14x150mm
  8x533mm torps     18x105mm
AA 16x12.7mm 32x13.2mm 10x12.7mm 12x20mm
  24x40mm 10x37mm 40x37mm 16x37mm
  20x114mm 16x130mm 8x100mm 16x105mm

 

 

Grabbed everything from wikipedia (since it's just some basic stats) and from the game. By the way, the displacement for Renown 44' listed there is for full load (and likely also for the O-Class - Sieg) so I used the full loads as well, you seem to have used Alaska and Kron's standard displacement (add about 5k tons for full load).

 

Renown fits in pretty well with the T6's as well from what I can see here. Main differences in both comparisons:

Longer than T6s, shorter than T9s.

Faster than T6s, slower than T9s.

The AA suites are all over the place, Alaska is a clear overperformer by a huge margin in the T9s, but Renown isn't too far ahead of the T6's, only held up by it's large number of DP secondaries (which are the exact same as the T6 Queen Elizabeth)

 

Main Guns

If R 44' has buffed accuracy IMO, it can fit at T6 with 30s reload, if you are at T9 with large cruiser dispersion already, it will want to buff reload (25/26s?)

 

I don't think Renown should be a T8 (or 9 for that matter since that's what we're comparing) large cruiser in game, primarily because it simply isn't of the same time period, even with it's refit. T6 is where a lot of ships that were in both wars reside (or at least designed in WWI), generally presented in a refitted state (for the BB class: QE, Warspite, PEF, Bayern, Izmail, New Mex, Fuso and Normandie all fit that paradigm, as does Renown 44') T8 has a lot of ships that were designed and built just before WWII, or during it.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[PKTZS]
Weekend Tester
2,453 posts
15,883 battles
16 hours ago, DanSilverwing said:

She had a refit between December 1943 and January 1944 while she was with the Home Fleet. The catapult was removed and replaced with deck mounted tubes and more Oerlikons.

Yes , catapult was removed, but only light AA was added.

 

From https://www.naval-history.net/xGM-Chrono-02BC-Renown.htm

Quote

March to April 1943 : Refitting at Rosyth.
During the refit her aircraft and aircraft facilities were removed. One hanger was turned into a cinema and the other into a seaman's mess.
Radar Type 283/M fitted to provide Anti-aircraft Barrage Control for Main and Secondary armament.
Nine 20mm single Oerlikons fitted.


Dec 3rd 1943 – Commenced a short refit and tropicalisation to prepare her for service with the Eastern Fleet.
During the refit she was fitted with the following additional close range AA weapons - 19 x 20mm Oerlikons, 7 twin and 5 single and one quadruple pom-pom .

No trace of added torpedo tubes. Could you provide graphical evidence of those supposed deck mounted torpedo tubes? Even the profile you added to your post show no torpedo tubes, just the guns and some boats in place of the catapult.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
535 posts
9,257 battles

@JapLance

Testimony from former crew member:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/stories/11/a5925611.shtml

 

Quote

The catapult was removed from HMS Renown at Rosyth in the beginning of December 1943 and replaced with Torpedo Tubes and Oerlikon Guns, and then we sailed for Scapa Flow where Vice Admiral Sir Arthur Power raised the flag. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
2,567 posts
15,503 battles

Renowns deck mounted torpedoes would've been shipped and refitted several times through out WW2, depending on theatre of operation.

 

Unfortunately they'll always be the fixed variety (see Japlances post)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[OMPG]
Beta Tester
241 posts
5,213 battles
On 9/19/2019 at 8:34 PM, DanSilverwing said:

She had a refit between December 1943 and January 1944 while she was with the Home Fleet. The catapult was removed and replaced with deck mounted tubes and more Oerlikons.

"During hostilities Renown received Radars 271, 282, 284 and 285 in 1941, and six 20mm were fitted. By the autumn of 1942 ten more 20mm had been added and the 0.5in MGs landed. During a refit from 22 February to 9 June 1943, the ship was given an additional thirteen twin and three single 20mm, and the complete aircraft installation was removed. From December 1943 to January 1944 at Rosyth, she received a four-barrelled 2pdr on 'B' turret, plus seven twin and five single 20mm. In 1945 the torpedo tubes were removed and the forward three twin 4.5in on each beam landed, probably as a weight-saving measure."

 

https://www.world-war.co.uk/bb/renown_class.php3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×