Tier 8 Clan Battles + Poll

[HaachamaShipping]

3 hours ago, OM40 said:

when a LIDL DD can bully a heavy cruiser.....its Balanced comrade.....

If the DD can bully a heavy cruiser either the DD isn't LIDL or the heavy cruiser is even more so. Short of landing torps (which happens at any tier), what is some Ognevoi, Loyang, Benson, Lightning, Hsienyang, etc. going to do to some Charles Martel, Baltimore, Mogami or Atago?

2 hours ago, Mr_Snoww said:

tier 8 is probably one of the most unbalanced tiers for ships

Unlike some other tiers, T8 doesn't have single ships that are OP as hell, it has an issue in that certain classes interact poorly with each other. Aki and Kiev spam after all aren't a product of these ships being OP compared to others, just that these ships fit the meta of CB far more than others. This is for example a stark contrast to what T7 CB would be, where you can certainly expect a flood of Belfast, not because of the class interaction, but because Belfast is simply a better ship, especially for the meta, but also in general.

2 hours ago, Miragetank90 said:

The huge amount of DDs in particular is just annoying, unfortunately. A lot of us just aren't really into it. 

 

It's funny though - field similar DD heavy setups in Tier X CB and you'll get destroyed. 

Because cruisers have a different evolution in their power level compared to other classes. Cruisers start out dominant at T1 and 2, because there they are the only choice or up against DDs only, which they outgun, T3+, BB meta kicks in and up to T7, the only reason to not replace cruisers with BBs is the restrictions of MM. Like, why would you ever take any T5 cruiser over a T5 BB? From T8 onwards (ignoring Belfast), you get actually solid radar cruisers, but all the cruisers basically still get absolutely trashed by BBs and the difference between an Akizuki and a Cleveland when getting shot at is that Cleveland has like 50% more hp, but has way worse concealment, no smoke and can take citadel hits. Thus, you either go full DD or you run some cruiser that is virtually just a radar bot. At T9, finally, cruisers get a repair party (except RN cruisers, which have other issues that make their use in CB very niche, yet it's one reason why some run radar Edinburgh), so their hp disparity compared to DDs is far more pronounced, but their armour is still crap. At T10, most cruisers get a repair party and some armour and even though the rise of overmatching BB guns might come to mind, the fact that cruisers exist that can tank the shells (Moskva/Stalingrad) and the DDs that get enough pen to reliably hurt cruisers are not hardcoded to only take 10% damage, cruisers as a whole stay relevant (as you'd need something to counter the tanky cruisers). Compare this to BBs, where at Tier 3 to T5 you overmatch most other BBs, every cruiser and DD and then your power slowly goes down a bit, due to certain ships or classes being able to tank your shells. But if you look at USN BB line, South Carolina basically tier for tier likely is no less powerful than Montana, if not even more so. You can never claim that some low tier cruiser could ever compete with its T10 counterpart tier for tier, except potentially for Furutaka.

 

T8 CBs being a complete DD fiesta thus is mainly due to how cruisers scale over the tiers, which is pretty poorly. And I voted T10, because T10 is basically still the best tier for inter-class balance, with T9 potentially being viable, but voting other just for that felt silly, because that'd include 7 tiers I'd consider absolutely trash for CB.

 

After all, T1 and T2 are jokes, T3 to T5 is a combination of cruisers being absolute roadkills and certain ships throwing the balance out of whack, T7 is Belfast fiesta, T6... what exactly would be the reason to not replace every single cruiser with a combination of Aigle and Guepard and a spotting T-61? Even if they don't fully rival the dpm of cruisers, unlike the Akizuki, cruisers have no radar to counterplay smoke effectively and they need no IFHE to screw over cruisers, while IFHE allows any DD to screw over BBs on basically the same level as cruisers (because any DD can reach the 25 mm necessary to pen lightly armoured sections and all the reinforced sections are at most penable by IFHE Nürnberg/Aoba or Graf Spee). I mean, we saw what the meta on these tiers would be without restrictions in Ranked Sprint, where genuinely the sole cruisers that were kinda ok were Perth and Graf Spee, because they would not just die and Perth could bring some added firepower on a platform with moving smoke, while Graf Spee could kill cruisers and you were guaranteed at least one enemy cruiser, so in the end, to be a net benefit for your team, you just had to outperform that enemy cruiser (which was easy if it was some Nürnberg that gets blapped at the start).

[Miragetank90]

36 minutes ago, Cagliostro_chan said:

snip

 

Yes. Pretty much. 

And I'd also be down for tier 9 CB, but when the next season rolls around I'd be happiest with 10 after all. 

 

Pls bring all the DDs then 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mr_Snoww]

32 minutes ago, Cagliostro_chan said:

Unlike some other tiers, T8 doesn't have single ships that are OP as hell, it has an issue in that certain classes interact poorly with each other. Aki and Kiev spam after all aren't a product of these ships being OP compared to others, just that these ships fit the meta of CB far more than others. This is for example a stark contrast to what T7 CB would be, where you can certainly expect a flood of Belfast, not because of the class interaction, but because Belfast is simply a better ship, especially for the meta, but also in general

you can say the same for all tiers. there are certain ships that do certain jobs better but the fact that tier 8 is mostly filled with mediocre ships (what some would call balance) is in fact the very reason that it is not balanced. you cant have just 1 ship to do 1 job in tier 8 which is where spamming a load of the same ships (aki, kiev etc) comes from. this however would not work in tier 10 due to ships being powerful enough to not need multiple of the same ships to do 1 job. for example; we all know that even though stalin is a very powefull ship 7 of them together would get outplayed by a more diverse team with spotting advantages etc. but in the case of tier 8 where kiev is a very powerful ship due to its ability to solo kill any cruiser it comes across, a diverse team will usually not counter a team of mostly kievs as individual ships at tier 8 are far easier to kill in comparison, therefore once 1 ship is killed the link in the chain is broken and the kievs can just run over the rest of the team. obviously its not as black and white as im saying but that is the general trend.

[HaachamaShipping]

2 minutes ago, Mr_Snoww said:

you can say the same for all tiers. there are certain ships that do certain jobs better but the fact that tier 8 is mostly filled with mediocre ships (what some would call balance) is in fact the very reason that it is not balanced. you cant have just 1 ship to do 1 job in tier 8 which is where spamming a load of the same ships (aki, kiev etc) comes from. this however would not work in tier 10 due to ships being powerful enough to not need multiple of the same ships to do 1 job. for example; we all know that even though stalin is a very powefull ship 7 of them together would get outplayed by a more diverse team with spotting advantages etc. but in the case of tier 8 where kiev is a very powerful ship due to its ability to solo kill any cruiser it comes across, a diverse team will usually not counter a team of mostly kievs as individual ships at tier 8 are far easier to kill in comparison, therefore once 1 ship is killed the link in the chain is broken and the kievs can just run over the rest of the team. obviously its not as black and white as im saying but that is the general trend.

The reason you can spam 1 BB and 4 Akis and actually succeed is not due to Aki being mediocre across the board, but it is because Aki is specialised to the point it can actually take the role of a cruiser. You'd then still run one more ship that is a spotting DD, because of the things Aki cannot do. The reason you cannot do that at T10 is because for one, Stalingrad's specialisation is not making a whole class obsolete and because as you have three relevant classes, not two, you need a more variable setup. Especially when one of the two viable classes is hardcoded at 1 ship max and the second is a counter to the other. If T10 meta had no BBs and the DD was 1 max, then cruiser meta also would degenerate into lineups of 1-2 ships. Gut tells me, it'd be 5 Henris and a Mino to provide spotting or 6 Henris relying on the 1 DD to do the spotting. Because all you need then is one cruiser that can crap on all other cruisers reliably and enough complementary ships to not have issues with any potentially counterplay.

[Miragetank90]

45 minutes ago, Cagliostro_chan said:

The reason you can spam 1 BB and 4 Akis and actually succeed is not due to Aki being mediocre across the board, but it is because Aki is specialised to the point it can actually take the role of a cruiser. You'd then still run one more ship that is a spotting DD, because of the things Aki cannot do. The reason you cannot do that at T10 is because for one, Stalingrad's specialisation is not making a whole class obsolete and because as you have three relevant classes, not two, you need a more variable setup. Especially when one of the two viable classes is hardcoded at 1 ship max and the second is a counter to the other. If T10 meta had no BBs and the DD was 1 max, then cruiser meta also would degenerate into lineups of 1-2 ships. Gut tells me, it'd be 5 Henris and a Mino to provide spotting or 6 Henris relying on the 1 DD to do the spotting. Because all you need then is one cruiser that can crap on all other cruisers reliably and enough complementary ships to not have issues with any potentially counterplay.

 

Meh. You are assuming a bit, and things aren't so black and white. Aki is not really ''specialised to the point it can actually take the role of a cruiser''. They can pump out the DPM from smoke, on someone bow camping for instance, but the moment you have a competent enemy you're screwed. Try pushing with Akis... good luck. Instead, to win, you need to somehow secure and hold 2 caps or it's not going to go the way you think. One spotter can't do all that. Barring some catastrophic play by the enemy or some luck on your teams' part, what are you going to do to win?

 

4 Akis means you want to go firepower focus. And yet, this is not a pushing composition, quite the opposite, this is a campy setup. The way to win would be to try to cap both caps and hold(Again, good luck). In which case, you are better off dropping the Akis and taking cruisers that can actually do some pushing and have more utility, range, etc otherwise you will be hamstrung. 

 

 

[HaachamaShipping]

1 minute ago, Miragetank90 said:

 

Meh. You are assuming a bit, and things aren't so black and white. Aki is not really ''specialised to the point it can actually take the role of a cruiser''. They can pump out the DPM from smoke, on someone bow camping for instance, but the moment you have a competent enemy you're screwed. Try pushing with Akis... good luck. To win, you need to somehow secure and hold 2 caps or it's not going to go the way you think. One spotter can't do all that. Barring some catastrophic play by the enemy or some luck on your teams' part, what are you going to do to win?

 

4 Akis means you want to go firepower focus. And yet, this is not a pushing composition, quite the opposite. The way to win would be to try to cap both caps and hold(Again, good luck). In which case, you are better off dropping the Akis and taking cruisers that can actually do some pushing and have more utility, range, etc otherwise you will be hamstrung. 

 

 

That's overselling T8 cruisers, frankly. If you run a 4 Akis combo against enemy cruisers

• You don't have to push into enemy caps, as you can just deny them the cap for long enough to get the upper hand. Akis are slow for DDs, but faster than most cruisers and if the enemy DD pushes in alone, what are they going to do?
• Pushing in in most cruisers gets you then farmed and shot to pieces by the BB, because cruisers usually don't get great concealment, a smoke and a damage mitigation vs BBs. Most don't get any vision control either.
• Range only matters if you can capitalise on it. Unless you got a spotting DD and the enemy does not or you caught the Aki with radar around an obstacle, Akis can just melt whatever lights them up while your cruisers try to give support from far away. In the end, you are far more likely to lose a ship than the Aki composition, especially in cases where the Akizukis are not actually spotted and you have nothing to shoot at anyway.
• Cruiser utility is a joke. Utility-wise, the only decent cruisers are Edinburgh, Baltimore and Chapayev, which bring powerful vision with radar and a hydro. While not bad, I don't call that greater utility than smoke, great concealment and the ability to create torp soup. Taking a cruiser for the utility requires you to be able to capitalise on the 20-30s of radar provided and not having enemies that can play around that. Which basically means, you bring maybe a radar vessel, but actually running a cruiser lineup like in T10. Yeah, that's not really going to be any more reliable than running DDs instead.

Is running 4 Akis, a Cossack and a BB the optimal lineup with no counterplay? Lolno, but it has more success than it likely should have, judging by how people get pissed at it and this lineup, Kiev lineups and variations of these mainly DD spam lineups are just more reliable in getting you somewhere, compared to traditional lineups that focus on cruisers like you see at T10.

[Excavatus]

all great discussion.. thanks for it guys..

 

My personal feeling about this season, for all the previous seaons, we managed to create more than a couple firm and viable tactics and line ups.

It was flexible..

 

This season, mainly I, as an FC failed to do that. Tried everything.

Other than a heavy DD setup, we couldn't find a stable tactic.

Cruisers are too squishy when they fired at by a vladi or lenin...
or they just burn down very fast under HE spamming.

 

At tier 10, personally I think, you can adjust your tactic during the match,

but here, If you don't have a heavy DD setup, and the enemy has.. you are just a damage piniata in that match.

and at tier 10, dev strikes of cruisers are a rare occurance. Even you get caught on a mistake and giving a full broadside to a BB..

at tier 8, BBs does not afraid from cruisers like tier 10. So they can push easily. They punish CAs/CLs harsher..

 

I don't know.. I want my tier 10 CB back..

.

.

no..

.

.

NO IT DOES NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH ME PLAYING THE KREMLIN!!

 

[Aragathor]

I'm tired. I'm tired of playing against unbalanced setups because devs can't  don't want to balance the game. I'm tired of being fed game after game to Typhoon clans who club bravo team for easy wins.

I hope this mode dies. It was idiotic enough at T10, at T8 it feels like hitting yourself in the balls repeatedly for nothing.

[Miragetank90]

1 hour ago, Cagliostro_chan said:

That's overselling T8 cruisers, frankly. If you run a 4 Akis combo against enemy cruisers

• You don't have to push into enemy caps, as you can just deny them the cap for long enough to get the upper hand. Akis are slow for DDs, but faster than most cruisers and if the enemy DD pushes in alone, what are they going to do?
• Pushing in in most cruisers gets you then farmed and shot to pieces by the BB, because cruisers usually don't get great concealment, a smoke and a damage mitigation vs BBs. Most don't get any vision control either.
• Range only matters if you can capitalise on it. Unless you got a spotting DD and the enemy does not or you caught the Aki with radar around an obstacle, Akis can just melt whatever lights them up while your cruisers try to give support from far away. In the end, you are far more likely to lose a ship than the Aki composition, especially in cases where the Akizukis are not actually spotted and you have nothing to shoot at anyway.
• Cruiser utility is a joke. Utility-wise, the only decent cruisers are Edinburgh, Baltimore and Chapayev, which bring powerful vision with radar and a hydro. While not bad, I don't call that greater utility than smoke, great concealment and the ability to create torp soup. Taking a cruiser for the utility requires you to be able to capitalise on the 20-30s of radar provided and not having enemies that can play around that. Which basically means, you bring maybe a radar vessel, but actually running a cruiser lineup like in T10. Yeah, that's not really going to be any more reliable than running DDs instead.

Is running 4 Akis, a Cossack and a BB the optimal lineup with no counterplay? Lolno, but it has more success than it likely should have, judging by how people get pissed at it and this lineup, Kiev lineups and variations of these mainly DD spam lineups are just more reliable in getting you somewhere, compared to traditional lineups that focus on cruisers like you see at T10.

 

Well, there are some statements here which are not accurate, and again, many assumptions are made. Understand, I'm not putting you down here, but your points reflect an understanding of CB that is still a little simplistic. Please understand that this is not a veiled insult. On the other hand, perhaps I'm too used to the Tier 10 CB meta.

 

Not going to force you to change your mind, you have an opinion and that's fine, but there are some things that can't really be contested, one them is that having a more traditional lineup with appropriately selected CAs, gives you more options than a 4 Aki setup would. It's not too hard to see how. If you go 4 Aki and win that's great, lot's of people are it seems(though I haven't seen it yet), but that's not the point I am trying to make, which is that it's unreasonable to claim that Akis can ''Take the role of a Cruiser'' when clearly the play and tactic with 4 Akis is quite different compared to a more traditional lineup of appropriate CAs. 

 

Peace.

[HaachamaShipping]

5 minutes ago, Miragetank90 said:

 

Well, there are some statements here which are not accurate, and again, many assumptions are made. Understand, I'm not putting you down here, but your points reflect an understanding of CB that is still a little simplistic. Please understand that this is not a veiled insult. On the other hand, perhaps I'm too used to the Tier 10 CB meta.

 

Not going to force you to change your mind, you have an opinion and that's fine, but there are some things that can't really be contested, one them is that having a more traditional lineup with appropriately selected CAs, gives you more options than a 4 Aki setup would. It's not too hard to see how. If you go 4 Aki and win that's great, lot's of people are it seems(though I haven't seen it yet), but that's not the point I am trying to make, which is that it's unreasonable to claim that Akis can ''Take the role of a Cruiser'' when clearly the play and tactic with 4 Akis is quite different compared to a more traditional lineup of appropriate CAs. 

 

Peace.

Doesn't matter if you can do more stuff if most of the things you can do is mitigating but not countering advantages of enemies and/or not applicable. e.g. a hydro advantage mitigates an enemy torpedo advantage, but hydro is not on all game and it only detects torps, not removes them, thus area denial torps still do their job. Range advantage at T10 for example is great, because when everyone plays cruisers, having more range to actually shoot is great. But what is the use of 19 km Kutuzov range when basically the sole enemy you spot and can hit at that range is the enemy BB and the rest of the ships are DDs that are either unspotted or too nimble to hit at long range? Yes, DD spam play is different from playing traditional cruiser lineups. But it is because T8 cruisers (and indeed pretty much all cruisers below T8 too) cannot stand up to other classes the same way T10 cruisers can, that their gameplay is either compromised or invalidated outright, to the point that DDs take over as the mainline ships. And you can get by with 0-1 radar ship, when basically all but one ships of yours enjoy a permanent vision advantage on a typical cruiser lineup and any DD lineup you face just shares the radar starvation.

 

It isn't simplistic, it's just ackowledging that the cruisers at T8 are a shadow of their T10 versions, far more than T8 BBs or T8 DDs are of their T10 versions. And for that reason, they have issues getting anwhere as much impact and are thus often replaced by DDs. The single ship that can boast anywhere as much utility as its T10 counterpart is the Atago when compared to Zao and even then, a Zao on its own is not a workable lineup and a Zao in a DD fiesta would not necessarily be a useful ship.

[Excavatus]

2 hours ago, Aragathor said:

I'm tired. I'm tired of playing against unbalanced setups because devs can't  don't want to balance the game. I'm tired of being fed game after game to Typhoon clans who club bravo team for easy wins.

I hope this mode dies. It was idiotic enough at T10, at T8 it feels like hitting yourself in the balls repeatedly for nothing.

CB is completely optional mate..
you don't have to play it If you hate it that much.

Ever thought about it?

 

For some of us, CB is by far the most fun part of this game...

Why do you think it should needs to die, just because you don't like it?

[CptBarney]

Allow tiers 5 and above and also allow ship banning for whatever tier is chosen for that season.

 

multiple ship bans between 5-10.

[Aragathor]

42 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

Ever thought about it?

And leave my clan without a player that can actively contribute to moving up? Sure, let me be selfish.

 

And "you don't need to play" is an easy argument when you forget that more and more ships are locked behind a steel requirement, that can only be overcome by either grinding ranked or playing CBs.

 

42 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

Why do you think it should needs to die, just because you don't like it?

No, because it's unbalanced and WG refuses to change it so it is truly competitive. When I select a competitive mode I expect fair play, and not 60%+ WR Typhoon clan beating up mid Storm clans.

I want to play against people on my level until I and the team I'm playing with reaches the extent of our skill, and not get our faces smashed in because the gentlemen on the way to hurricane decided to have an easy win.

[CptMinia]

I've not had the chance to play clan battles yet, for a start I can only really play weekends and then fact is it has been pretty hard to find new players for the clan. We played quite a lot before the CV rework but since then, the majority of our players have been inactive to the point where most of our members are just ghosts in the discord. 

 

The downside though with any competitive environment in WoWS is that particular ships will always stand out. Lock it at tier 10, you will see a lot of decent players in Stalingrads. At tier 9, Blacks, Missouri, Jean Bart, Musashi, Kronshtadt. Tier 8, Lo Yang, Kidd, Kutuzov. Tier 7, Haida, Flint, Belfast, Nelson.

 

The fact these particular ships are seen very regularly in competitive environments makes it a bit stale, boring and repetitive and it's not in my personal interest to spend so much time grinding for steel to be able to purchase ships I don't have any interest in. The only steel ship I have any interest in really is the Somers, but I am not keen enough to rush out and get in hundreds of battles to get as much steel as possible. No, I'll just play a few games of ranked season just to keep my rank and get a bit of steel season by season so one day I might be able to get a steel ship that interests me. I am in no rush. It doesn't surprise me that other people find clan battles a bit stale. Even though more has been added to the game over the years I feel like, in a way, there is less to do now. I think in my case, the game just doesn't reward skill enough. To me there is too much RNG and random bollocks, doesn't make it fun to grind out for those rewards that are closer to rewarding you for patience rather than experience, skill and decision-making. 

[HMS_Kilinowski]

Although T8 is not a bad tier in random battles, I feel it is not well-suited for CB. Many people play T8-ships to the move on to T9 and T10. As the captains train rather slowly, one captain is often grinding an entire line, to finally end up and remain on the T10 ship. It doesn't make sense to train captains up to 19 points, when you intend to move them around a lot. So T8 ships mostly will see 14 pt captains, some even lower. The only ships having highly trained captains are tech-tree keepers and premium ships. That alone introduces an element of heterogenity among players.

 

Another issue is that many lines are not fully developed at T8. There are pronounced weaknesses in certain concepts and some lines struggle at T8 to perform in the role they fulfil in T10. e.g. the Chapayev and Baltimore, which are still not capable of bow-tanking and digging into key areas. The result is a more generic team play, seeing sudden intense interactions rather than well orchestrated tactical teamwork. It's more about bringing more guns to the fight and hitting better than about using the right tool for the right job.

 

That's why I personally still enjoy T10 the most. The ship lines are rather balanced, apart from a few ships that stick out on purpose. Each player has likely found his preferred role and playstyle and has the corresponding ships in port and equipped with a good captain.

 

[DFens_666]

2 hours ago, CptMinia said:

The fact these particular ships are seen very regularly in competitive environments makes it a bit stale, boring and repetitive

 

Well, WG should just get some balls and do like @MortenTardo said: Ban premium ships, regulate DDs even more (maybe not even DDs, just hardcap every individual ship at 2, so you cant run 4 Henris f.e. or something similiar). Nobody needs those troll setups - they are only there to piss off other people. Like we played that russian Clan once who was running nothing but Stalingrads in the test CB season with CVs. (well, they lost, but still, they could perform way over their own level of a barely above 50% clan).

I always like the arguement when people bring those troll setups up "oh that clan xyz is so awesome, you would have lost regardless" So then why dont they do it? Win/lose fair and square without taking the piss out of other players.

[Excavatus]

I'm completely ok with ship restrictions,

even more so, I think we can try one of these examples below..

 

Tier 10 CB - Exclusive for silver ships

Tier 10 CB - Nation restrictons..

for example you have to chose 1 nation before the season starts and stick with that..

or you pick a nation before every battle... you may pick the US to have Desmo, or can pick french to have Henri, or IJN for havin shima, or RU for kremlin, etc etc...

 

or tier 10 CB - US/IJN...

 

etc etc.

I think it would give new tastes into the CB environment and meta..

 

[mtm78]

I like that nation thing in theory but it requires countries are all somewhat equally viable. IJN has not a single radar ship, neither do the Germans. Me as a tier X noob will say it would indeed be VMF vs USN most of the games.

 

Also, if you pick your nation before season, and WG patches something which influences balance between nations you're either screwed or lucky depending on what they done and which nation you choose. And no, I do not trust WG 100% in not having to patch something influential while a season is going on. If they promise beforehand, maybe 95% ;)

 

 I'm interested what the good clans would do if they needed to pick a single nation to field in CB's, I look forward to being surprised.

 

 

[Excavatus]

3 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

I'm interested what the good clans would do if they needed to pick a single nation to field in CB's, I look forward to being surprised.

Ok then, in addition, lest ask people what nation would they chose for a FULL CB Season at tier 10.. and why, and lets remember, it will be silver ships exclusive.

 

I'd chose USN probably,

Monti is a good pick,

Desmo has the best radar and overall can be the best cruiser in general sense.

Gearing is very very good even more so with LM on it..

 

SO It can be,

Monti

Gearing,

3 x desmo

2 x wooster

I think this is not a bad line up..

 

 

[HaachamaShipping]

28 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

or you pick a nation before every battle... you may pick the US to have Desmo, or can pick french to have Henri, or IJN for havin shima, or RU for kremlin, etc etc...

Not even Yamato with overmatch makes a no-radar nation like this an appealing choice, much less Shima. If it's single nation, then you'd likely go USN, because DesMo is solid, LU Gearing does basically Shima's job and Montana is also still solid. Russians with Grozo/Moskva/Kremlin and British with Daring/Mino/Conqueror are the only other factions I'd even see anywhere close to viable, as French and Germans also would get countered by smoke and for the Germans, Kurfürst, Hinden and Z-52 is a dreadful lineup. And the UK lineup is way harder in skill requirements, as vs US, you give those DesMos any side and you die, while vs Soviets, one Stalingrad can screw you over hard.

 

Single nation lineups are terrible, because the balance isn't created with single nation in mind. And certain nations like the Pan-Asians or soon Italians don't even have a full set of ships. Noone is going to run 7 goddamn Yueyangs outside memeing around.

 

[Yedwy]

I had to buy back a Chapa after a particularly nasty match the other day, as you simply cant rout out the dd pest otherwise...

[mtm78]

4 minutes ago, Cagliostro_chan said:

Single nation lineups are terrible, because the balance isn't created with single nation in mind.

 

Sounds like an issue still however you present it, if the balance in random's can only be achieved if MM has enough ships to pick from. Ideally nations should be somewhat balanced to each other. 

 

I <3 the old historical reenactments we used to do, and playing CB's in a nation vs nation flavor would actually make it more appealing to me ( if nations are all viable ). 

 

I guess that is to much to ask for tho, as WG will likely indeed point out that balance is not nation vs nation but on a 'random selection of ships vs random selection of ships' basis :(

 

 

[HaachamaShipping]

35 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

Sounds like an issue still however you present it, if the balance in random's can only be achieved if MM has enough ships to pick from. Ideally nations should be somewhat balanced to each other. 

It's a non-issue, because MM tries to mirror ships of type and nation. If it fails to achieve that, well, potentially one team gets less radars. But for one, ideally all ships are useful in some capacity even without radar (and you cannot claim that the Henri or Zao aren't useful ships) and not every line should be the same, which is where we'd end up if everyone will have to have the same consumables or characteristics to make any failed MM truely equal. Balancing between nation would only make sense if teams truely consisted of only a single nation, but that's not the case.

 

And the issue of radar is just one because smoke exists. If you'd take away smoke for example, the meta would reverse, as the nations with non-radar cruisers are going to have the upper hand in exchanges at range, where only Moskva and Stalingrad can boast good ballistics, but with lackluster dpm.

35 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

I <3 the old historical reenactments we used to do, and playing CB's in a nation vs nation flavor would actually make it more appealing to me ( if nations are all viable ). 

Historical stuff would be best adressed in operations, where you don't have equal quantity and quality balancing anyway. Not that it matters, as most historical battles involve at most T8 ships, not T10s.