Radar are not balanced

[Kiras_1]

Hi, i'm a tier 10 gearing and i can't play my favorite game as a DD now.

The most important part for a DD is to no being see. A DD spot, is a dead DD. I'm playing this game for quite long (before the german navy), my gameplay then was to spot for my team, capture point and try to hunt enemy DD without being hunt back.

But when the radar shown up, all this was finished. I understand that a good DD player who can make all the game without being seing seems not balanced for other player, but the radar is too much efficient now.

if i go to a point , hide being a island with smoke , i still dying because of non stop radar, and air plane (with the cv rework it's worst than ever) without understand what happening because i'm in the smoke. Every ship have a 1 min radar now even the desmoines. every game now when i try to cap a point , i go through 2 or 3 min of being spotted by a radar, endend up mostly by a quick death. So after many time i think the radar are not balanced at all. I'm sure that team with radar have more chance to win a game and i'm curious to see some stats about this.

The only way to have fun now with a DD it's to not play it.

 

And i think, that only 2 simple adjust with the radar make it more balanced :

-1 RADAR respect the line of sight :

   When you've been spotted by a ship stuck in a island , i mean really?Radar are not hydro, if something block the line of sigth like an ilsand, the people behind the island are not supposed to be detect.

-2 Radar ship is spotted by every body:

  Radar is active detection, if a ship use radar , the minimum is that every body see them, even the enemy ship! i'm really tired of ghost radar hiding in some smoke, who's abble to shoot every body without being woried at all.

 

Radar is a good gameplay mecanics but i really thing it need more balance.

 

Thank for your time.

 

 

[ColonelPete]

We have radar in the game for over two years...

You can encounter radar from Tier V on, from Tier VII it is common. What have you done all this time?

 

Radar was already changed that you get a few seconds warning before the whole enemy team can target you. Take note of the radar warning. Do not stand still.

And no, not every ship has radar.

[Donar79]

Wow. How did u make it to tier 10? Radar isn't really a problem its possible to outplay it. Mentioned planes are a different story.

[RAHJAILARI]

You have to learn, which ships have radar lad (US & Russian Cruisers, maybe Mino + Missouri + Black and possibly Yueyang). Any Mino or Yueyang, which has smoke cannot have radar. Their numbers are quite limited and so are both their range and active time. Most radars only last for 30-40 seconds, which means that for the first 8 seconds, only the radar ship can target you. That is your escape window. Also there are only limited places in the map, where radar ships can position themselves (hint: any island close to or in-between cap zone(s)) so position yourself at the other end of the cap zone so you will be out of radar range and force them to come out, if they intend to spot you. At tier 10 you should expect radar and prepare for it, so do not mindlessly rush caps and sit in smoke. It won't work. Keep the distance and prepare to turn and escape & WASD immediately, if radar'd, save your speedboost for those occasions. When out of radar range, wait for 30 second and then go back when the radar is on cooldown. You can quite safely cap it right from under his nose, unless he comes out after you but then again your backup will plaster him right there if he does, because you did not just Yolo - Right?

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Consumables#Surveillance_Radar

[Dragnorak]

I have a printed sheet with all radar ships on them, what ranges and also duration. At game start I look to see firstly if there are any. If there are then I want to know where they are so I can keep range if needed. 

 

As said Play around it.

[BanzaiPiluso]

23 minutes ago, Kiras_1 said:

Hi, i'm a tier 10 gearing and i can't play my favorite game as a DD now.

The most important part for a DD is to no being see. A DD spot, is a dead DD. I'm playing this game for quite long (before the german navy), my gameplay then was to spot for my team, capture point and try to hunt enemy DD without being hunt back.

But when the radar shown up, all this was finished. I understand that a good DD player who can make all the game without being seing seems not balanced for other player, but the radar is too much efficient now.

if i go to a point , hide being a island with smoke , i still dying because of non stop radar, and air plane (with the cv rework it's worst than ever) without understand what happening because i'm in the smoke. Every ship have a 1 min radar now even the desmoines. every game now when i try to cap a point , i go through 2 or 3 min of being spotted by a radar, endend up mostly by a quick death. So after many time i think the radar are not balanced at all. I'm sure that team with radar have more chance to win a game and i'm curious to see some stats about this.

The only way to have fun now with a DD it's to not play it.

 

And i think, that only 2 simple adjust with the radar make it more balanced :

-1 RADAR respect the line of sight :

   When you've been spotted by a ship stuck in a island , i mean really?Radar are not hydro, if something block the line of sigth like an ilsand, the people behind the island are not supposed to be detect.

-2 Radar ship is spotted by every body:

  Radar is active detection, if a ship use radar , the minimum is that every body see them, even the enemy ship! i'm really tired of ghost radar hiding in some smoke, who's abble to shoot every body without being woried at all.

 

Radar is a good gameplay mecanics but i really thing it need more balance.

 

Thank for your time.

 

 

It has been "balanced" somehow lately. First thing you have to do is to check the teams before the battle and see who's got the radar consumable. Then change your approach accordingly. I'ts not 100% bullet proof but if you always do the same then you are the only one to blame.

A good radar cruiser captain will set an effective trap for the careless dd captain. So keep that in mind. Plan ahead, have a escape route in mind, play like you are going to be detected. 

Right now there is nothing else you can do except outsmart the radar. 

[Ubertron_X]

Rule no. 1 vs Radar? Don't get radared! Or if you do, be somewhere safe (cover, range).

 

Most ships radar range is well below their visibility range, so on open caps you should be most safe because you detect them first. For those few ships that do have higher radar range than visibility range (e.g. Chapayev) you will still be like 10km away when they detect you and considering a well plotted course you should be able to bail out with a minimum of damage. Closed caps can indeed be a death sentence, so simply do not go there if not all enemy radar capable ships have been accounted for. You can always come back for a cap 5 min later, however you can't cap if you are dead.

[quickr]

How about this. Instead of focusing on the problem, lets try find a solution.

 

Unlike CV planes, radar has it's range and duration, it's limited that way, so it's (somewhat) easy to play around it.

 

So first off we start with map (and game) awareness:

When the game starts, check how many radar ships are on the enemy team. Are they divisioned up with someone? (usually division mates go together so if you spot haragumo for example and he is in division with Moskva lets say, it's a very good chance his buddy is close) Next, Try to anticipate where they would position themselves. Look at the map, is any of them spotted and Can you bait the radar?

 

Difference between a sh*t DD player and a good DD player is awareness and anticipation (in my opinion).

 

Also try working on your approach. Don't rush into the cap like headless chicken. Play it patiently. There is a thin line between reckless and aggressive play.

Are you supported when going in or are you alone? Do you panic smoke or wiggle your tail to get out and save smoke for when CV comes after you?

 

I'm mostly oversimplifying things here but those are the questions you got to ask yourself and than see if you want to improve your game or just give up. 

[Profilus]

 

[Dragnorak]

Try this

 

[Dragnorak]

[Kiras_1]

Thank for all you responses,

 

I know i can outplay them by, And just like you, i make no go zone of  10km around every USA/BRIT/RUSSIAN cruiser. But with my 11km gun range... it's mean that i only play with some torps, and in some game, just watch it from a distance, i have the sensation sometimes that i cannot just spot for the team, for a DD it's a shame.

I still manage to make good game, with my gearing, and of course some bad. But every time i made a really bad game, it's because of a radar. Even when a cv spot me i don't have this frustration. And of course i don't have this when i play BB or Cruiser.

It's maybe just a long tired up feeling i finally express, and it's just personnal.For those who asks, i've earned my gearing before radar show up, and maybe that's just the problem. I haven't growing up my T10 in a radar gameplay zone...

I really think that radar are still not balanced, and i don't want some advice to how to play against it, i know all that. But i know i don't have the same fun to play DD than before (for quite long now, but it's going more intense as the days pass).

It's seems to be just a personnal opinion. so be it.

 

 

[_FCK_PTN_]

3 minutes ago, Dragnorak said:

Try this

You miss module extending radar duration on your list ;)

 

Just now, Kiras_1 said:

i make no go zone of  10km around every USA/BRIT/RUSSIAN cruiser

Why do you make no-go zone around these cruisers? Try to trigger their radar and move out from it's range, then after its duration ends move back and torp them to hell. Not to mention that gunfights close to any of those cruisers usually end up badly anyway...

[Dragnorak]

9 minutes ago, squalus77 said:

You miss module extending radar duration on your list ;)

 

Why do you make no-go zone around these cruisers? Try to trigger their radar and move out from it's range, then after its duration ends move back and torp them to hell. Not to mention that gunfights close to any of those cruisers usually end up badly anyway...

 

needs updating but it does the main job re range

[RAHJAILARI]

You do not need to make it a "no go zone", that is just wasting your opportunities. Once used up radars have a long reload time so bait them. You know he will fire up his radar, once he sees you hitting the cap zone right? So go to the opposite end of the cap, just on the extreme range of it and make a turn so your rear is pointing towards the radar ship, once he fires it up, speedboots and WASD out of range, come back 30 seconds later and torp his [edited]. very simple and totally works. You can do the same, even if there are several radar ship nearby, just make sure you know where they are and plan accordingly. Being spotted itself does not kill you, and also if you go quickly out of range (do not waste your smoke here) without firing your guns you will soon disappear and not take too much damage either. Most likely the radar ship will stay in place to wait until it can be used again so this is when you can approach and launch your torps to take him out. Also, most Brit Cruisers at tiers 9 and 10 do not take radar, because they prefer to choose smoke. So if you see a Mino smoking up, you know it is can safe to go within 6km of him and launch torps into that smoke to be rid of it, he cannot magically radar you. Also, if you are only facing 1 radar ship, which is on the other side of the island from you and not in direct line to fire, you are quite safe, radar by itself does not actually kill you. Also radars have only limited number of charges, during the last half of the game it is entirely possible they have used them all up already, so then you may risk it to get closer. Knowing all this will allow you to make some quite bold aggressive (and successful) gameplay even against radar-equipped ships.

 

Too many players have this compulsive obsession to pussyfoot around and  insist that they always remain undetected and refuse to do anything if that would get them spotted, when they play DD. This a gross misconception and is not always strictly necessary to be successful (RU & French DD's for example) but it requires planning and control. Make sure you choose the right situation, spot and moment when to get detected. Particularly making sure that the entire enemy team is not there to shoot you down. perhaps the best way to learn what radar's limitations are and how to play against them is to get them for yourself and play some. My survival rate in a DD has skyrocketed soon after I got myself Cleveland and DM and I have also been able to torp them quite consistently, so problem solved only some more practice needed, of course.

[DFens_666]

1 hour ago, Kiras_1 said:

And i think, that only 2 simple adjust with the radar make it more balanced : 

 

How about you get some hightier Radar cruiser experience, and tell us how much fun it would be if your mechanics would be in place.

Btw, number 1 wont ever happen, as WG tested it, and they didnt like it (atleast they got something right...). And number 2 seems to be even a worse version of number 1. Only Belfast and Black can carry both Radar and smoke at the same time. If you meet any other Radar ship in smoke, then the enemy team just worked better together. No need to punish Teamplay. Maybe you shouldnt sit behind an island in your own smoke, but try to get one of your Cruisers to help you from your smoke instead

[Profilus]

32 minutes ago, Kiras_1 said:

I really think that radar are still not balanced, and i don't want some advice to how to play against it, i know all that.

If you have trouble with radar, then you DONT KNOW IT ALL or dont use that knowledge.

[Kiras_1]

Ok it's seems , i'm not Clear about all this:

I don't want a "how to play against radar". there a lot of tuto/forum/youtube video about this.

I only explain my global personnal experience (without any real tactics i use) for people UNDERSTAND WHY i  ask this question:

Are RADAR balanced or not? YES/NO/WHY?

 

I 'm very greatfull about all the tactics you gave here for a guys a bit lost, i'm using a lot of them, and if i'm be honest, i really susprised to see this community so quick to share the way of play the game. It's really encouraging. Thank you!

But it's not the point here.

Again, i don't want wargaming to get rid of radar, but making some change, maybe would be more fun and tactic for every body?

 

[Kiras_1]

Il y a 3 minutes, DFens_666 a dit :

 

How about you get some hightier Radar cruiser experience, and tell us how much fun it would be if your mechanics would be in place.

Btw, number 1 wont ever happen, as WG tested it, and they didnt like it (atleast they got something right...). And number 2 seems to be even a worse version of number 1. Only Belfast and Black can carry both Radar and smoke at the same time. If you meet any other Radar ship in smoke, then the enemy team just worked better together. No need to punish Teamplay. Maybe you shouldnt sit behind an island in your own smoke, but try to get one of your Cruisers to help you from your smoke instead

Thank you that's i want to ear.

[Animalul2012]

Destroyers with infinite torpedoes is not balanced or realistic either, battleship that can survive 5 torpedoes without getting knocked back is not realistic either, destroyers surviving 6 460mm shells is not realistic either... do you see a pattern here mate? Well i start to think that the playerbase is destroying this game and not only WG, they hate IPHE but they like to have a chance when they are uptiered in theyre t6 cruiser or any 150-180mm cruiser, they hate research center but they still free xp 5 lines to they can get an OP ship and if it is balanced they [edited] about it( see new OHIO GOD STUPID PLAYERBASE and to think that wot players pray everyday so that obj 279 and chieftain can get nerfed).They hate HE so now WG will have SAP witch can deal above 10k damage  every salvo and shells dont overpenetrate or give a damn about damage saturation unlike HE and AP!

So can you already stop with this OMG NERF RADAR nonsense! Go play a simulator instead if you dont like how this arcade radar works!

[Sir_Grzegorz]

Maybe I am playing my Gearing wrong but one ship with radar is no problem.

Sure if he radars you in middle of cap and whole their team will start to shoot, you are deleted but that is not problem with radar.

 

IMHO radar is acceptable as it is.

[Profilus]

24 minutes ago, Kiras_1 said:

Are RADAR balanced or not? YES/NO/WHY?

Yes balanced(could remove 6s delay for team). Its the only press of button that sometimes makes team act as team.

[ApolloF117]

This crap again

[Sargento_YO]

Sure, you want to sit down confortably on your smoke screen without fear to being retaliated.

[Kiras_1]

Il y a 30 minutes, Animalul2012 a dit :

 OMG NERF RADAR nonsense! 

I totaly Heard myself

You got a really good point, WOWS is an arcade game, and you don't want realism in arcade game, i'm pretty aware of that.

In arcade game, you want some fun, and that's my problem, i think that play against radar isn't fun.

 

Again it's my opinion, and it seems that i'm the only one to feel that.