Chat ban system needs fixing. Fast.

[SomeBot]

To the OP:

 

You are still rather new to the system. My last ban had a  10 day duration....!!!

(Probably for pointing my teammates' mental ability level.)

 

Cheers,

[Tanatoy]

@mtm78 Hi,

 

I also have checked from the beginning of the month and I can ensure you that there's no issue with the chat ban system, and we are speaking about a step beyond the "I just said they are useless".

 

Also, I'd like to remind you (and everybody here as my post is for everybody) that there's no "useless" players. 

 

1. As they can divert the shells of the enemy for you. 

2. As they are a person. And as such, should be treated with respect.

 

I can perfectly understand that people can feel anger and frustration when a game doesn't go the way we want, I feel it too, we all do. But even if it's my teammates fault, how and in which world would that give me the right to tell them that they are useless, or even more insult them? It's just a childish behavior. 

 

Try to give them advice instead of insulting them. That doesn't work ? Well, at least you tried and you won't be banned because you can't control your nerves. 

 

Because they don't play like you want they shouldn't be able to play? And if they do so it's a toxic behavior? But, you might forget one thing, you have the exact same rights as them. You are just a player, just like them. And it's not because you're better at understanding the game mechanics and that you take the game more seriously that it give you any rights to act superior. You are a human being, like them. We all here have been to school, have been educated to be in a society with people different than us, and still behave with them. Then why not acting like it? Why not applying those rules also while playing? 

 

If somebody drive too slow on the highway for you, do you open the window and shout at them? 

 

Insulting somebody, telling them they are useless or idiot etc.. is just immature. Plain and simple. 

 

[mtm78]

55 minutes ago, Tanatoy said:

1. As they can divert the shells of the enemy for you. 

 

Not when hiding behind an island they don't ;) Which is why most of the salt goes towards BB players, with them it's the most obvious but there are players in all classes which don't contribute to the team at all.

 

57 minutes ago, Tanatoy said:

I can perfectly understand that people can feel anger and frustration when a game doesn't go the way we want

But that's not relevant, a game which doesn't go the way I want can be fun even as no one has fun only when they win I assume? The frustration comes from players like in the above screenshots, as they are the personification of why the game is going badly. If you have a Musaschi which you spend your resources on, why are you sitting behind an island? I know it's just a screenshot but I got replays I can post screenshots of the minimap for each minute passed in the game if people doubt what level of participation we're talking about. 

 

59 minutes ago, Tanatoy said:

Try to give them advice instead of insulting them. That doesn't work ? Well, at least you tried and you won't be banned because you can't control your nerves. 

 

1 hour ago, Tanatoy said:

2. As they are a person. And as such, should be treated with respect.

If I meet them in person I'll buy em a beer, but when we're on the field ( imagine us being a football team ) I can still see my goalie making a blunder and when back in the locker room he might get a slap with a towel. Again, afterwards in the cantine / pub I'll happily drink a beer and converse about anything. That's not saying btw that I don't think my ban was justified, I read you saying I crossed the line which I don't need a pm with details for to agree with, it took a whole lot longer then some had expected for me to run into a chat ban when I came back

 

I did mean what I sad though, that might be that one game, but in general I don't even use chat unless saying "poi" at the start and to say hi to people I know. Otherwise, the quick commands are pretty sufficient ( again, kudo's for finally implementing it  ). Those quick commands might be the best quality of life improvement for both sides here.

 

1 hour ago, Tanatoy said:

Insulting somebody, telling them they are useless

Telling someone they are being useless is an insult? "Literally just saying: you're behind an island, you can't see anything you can't shoot anything, you have (almost) full hitpoints and we're going to loose unless you become useful" is exactly what you want us to do is what you just said above.

1 hour ago, Tanatoy said:

Try to give them advice

 

But, I need to type all that in chat, while evading enemy shells, trying to predict the next wave of torps I been dodging for the past few minutes and keeping an eye on the minimap for that enemy BB which went unspotted but should be in range anytime soon while also having line of sight on me with the carrier going to keep me spotted? I don't even have time really to write : "You're being useless there". And I can use the quick command to ask for assistance but maybe he thinks I'm asking it from all the dead allies around me. 

 

This is not a person not knowing what to do or having a sudden rush of something to the brain as Jingles would call it. If I spawn on a flank with only 3 people and I see them turning out I will ask them to stay and support me because giving up the flank will mean getting crossfired later in game so we should be playing a delay and kiting game with the enemy team on our flank. And this works pretty often. Those are the people who you can give advice also later in game when situations changes / develops and you think what they are doing is not the best way to proceed with the battle. Those are also the most fun games usually ( rare as they are btw! ). 

 

My specific examples were from top tier BB's having spent entire battle hiding in the back and even when it's do or die time, they rather hide behind cover for minutes. There is no reason at all to not call out their positioning as being useless to the team effort. Even if just being given the advice your positioning is maybe not that good, you still have an ability to come up with a better position yourself.

 

The only issue I see is how you phrase it so it might be the most effective. At least I am still hoping for an effect other then probably feeling a bit less frustrated. Guess I got some work to do there :) 

 

[Donar79]

Vor 52 Minuten, Tanatoy sagte:

1. As they can divert the shells of the enemy for you. 

A BB lingering on the edge of the map, preserving his HP is diverting nothing. A DD who is dead after 3min contributes nothing than damage/XP for the enemy team. In cases like that calling someone useless isn't an insult because it is reality in this moment. Would it be nicer to tell him/her why you think that he is contributing nothing? Sure. But pausing the game to write a letter is no option.

Is it kind of immature to shout at people because they behave the way they do. Yeah maybe and if some lose their manners definitely.

 

But let's look at this from the other side. As you mentioned the example with the highway. I am viewing on this from a german perspective. There is a rule were you have to stay on the right lane and only use left lane to pass somebody and you have to do this swiftly. A lot of people are simply ignoring this. People using this lane for what its meant for, absolutely no matter if they just want or have to, are called speeders and rowdys completely ignoring the fact they are not the ones who behave wrong in the first place. Mutual consideration is the first paragraph in german road traffic regulations and this would be a good start for many things in human society.

 

So what does this all mean for the game? We are playing an online multiplayer game were 2 teams of random players compete against each other. And I don't think it's an exaggeration to say it's about winning. Surely it should be fun in the first place but loosing is no fun and we're not preschool kids were its all about the interaction. So how do we call behaviour that is not contributing or even sabotaging the common goal? There are new and unexperienced players who dont't know better and this is fine. Everybody has to start somewhere.

 

So what would be the mature reaction on players behaving egoistic and kind of anti-social? Say nothing? Do nothing? Just accept? Sorry then i prefer immature.

[mtm78]

5 minutes ago, Donar79 said:

So what would be the mature reaction on players behaving egoistic and kind of anti-social? Say nothing? Do nothing? Just accept? Sorry then i prefer immature.

 

No. Just no.

 

Not immature. Just tell em as calmly as possible that their contribution to the team effort is lacking, and if you got the time give a more detailed advice. 

[Benden]

On 9/6/2019 at 11:48 AM, Tanatoy said:

@mtm78 Hi,

 

I also have checked from the beginning of the month and I can ensure you that there's no issue with the chat ban system, and we are speaking about a step beyond the "I just said they are useless".

 

 

 

You can not be serious ? Is it how Wargaming is considering their chat ban system : "working as intended" ?

Maybe it can be considered without issue in Russia or Bielorussia but certainly not according to international or European standards !! 

You made my jaw droped down reading you  : I have shared with you  the issues with the chat ban procedures and what should be expected by a company according to France. I also posted on this thread.

So NOPE, chat ban system is far from flawless in Wows.

 

About the players and diversity in play level and lack of team play, this is what made me leave from Wot, a game I beta tested at its very beginning and that became/remained way too arcadish to my taste.

 

Wargaming decided to go for a PEGI 7 (yes SEVEN) years old rating (and btw, the chat is independent from the content provided by the game so no worries about language excessively  : I verified with the PEGI organisation).

 

So imagine you are playing basketball, red vs blue teams, but both teams being  a mix of teens, kids, adults and retired people  => There will be intrinsic problems with such mixed player pool and everyones' goal and expectations.

It is up to Wargaming to design a game that will fit for the most and/or specific audience. Not the players to adapt to a foreseeable mess in randoms for instance.

 

 

[Donar79]

Vor 5 Minuten, mtm78 sagte:

 

No. Just no.

 

Not immature. Just tell em as calmly as possible that their contribution to the team effort is lacking, and if you got the time give a more detailed advice. 

Yeah right....

ok then I'll take some time next time and write a well mannered explanation why i think he/she could do better in this situation. Maybe i do some research and also add some links with information on contributive play. But i fear there will be some immature who will call me useless....

 

[Tanatoy]

3 minutes ago, Benden said:

 

So imagine you are playing basketball, red vs blue teams, but both teams being  a mix of teens, kids, adults and retired people  => There will be intrinsic problems with such mixed player pool and everyones' goal and expectations.

It is up to Wargaming to design a game that will fit for the most and/or specific audience. Not the players to adapt to a foreseeable mess in randoms for instance.

 

 

Benden... it would still not give you any right to "blew off some steam" by insulting other players. And it will not be our fault. We don't write down for you the insults that you may have put here. 

 

Guys. 

 

A chat system can always be improved. I'm not saying the contrary anywhere here.

 

I'm just pointing out that we are all aware that a multiplayer game, even more a free 2 play game attracts plenty of different people from different horizons.

 

Just like when you're walking on the street. Just like you're playing football but where here, you have to accept to play with everybody. Does it give you the right to insult them ? No. 

 

@Donar79 Even if i'm french, I used to live in Germany during few years, and I can perfectly understand the exemple that you took with the german highways. But, please remember that the german highways are an exception in the world, and that for exemple, to my own surprise, you have a law preventing you to show the middlefinger to the other drivers, what i'm trying to say here, it's still : even if you take it in a german pov, you don't have the right to show your anger and frustration to the other driver.

 

@mtm78 Thank you for your reply and understanding. Calling somebody "useless" is not an insult, but I guess everybody would agree that's it's not productive either and that the only purpose is to blew off some steam. 

[mtm78]

50 minutes ago, Benden said:

You can not be serious ? Is it how Wargaming is considering their chat ban system : "working as intended" ?

 

Well as I said I know I been pretty frustrated and while I'm making an effort to not lay that upon others, I can remember one game in particular where my frustration might have found it's way upon another case of people not contributing to the team effort at all, I don't even remember what I said but I remember I had to quit the game afterwards as I really needed the break. That is why I sad I will not inquire further, if he says I crossed the line I assume I did. 

 

The only thing I would keep debating is how it's bad to call people's contribution the team useless if their contribution has been useless. 

 

49 minutes ago, Donar79 said:

ok then I'll take some time next time and write a well mannered explanation why i think he/she could do better in this situation. Maybe i do some research and also add some links with information on contributive play. But i fear there will be some immature who will call me useless....

 

You seem to be getting it

 

You don't have time in game during the match to actually do this.

 

I would WISH there was a way, like with SGWA before, that actually interested new players and maybe even older players who just hadn't realized they might benefit, to offer something in a format they would like, so they are open to learning. 

 

14 minutes ago, Tanatoy said:

@mtm78 Thank you for your reply and understanding. Calling somebody "useless" is not an insult, but I guess everybody would agree that's it's not productive either and that the only purpose is to blew off some steam. 

 

That's just it, it should be just a vent but for me it is not. It's another layer of frustration since if there were a way to get that particular player in that particular situation to do something else and see if that works better for him, there is nothing I can do.

 

I can't use chat to convince them, I can write entire essays and it would just get ignored because ( name any particular reason and I'm sure it's valid for someone along the line ). 

 

What I'm trying to say I guess is that I shouldn't even bother with useless for these cases, as they can't be 'fixed' and even trying just adds to the frustration. I just wished we had unlimited 'plays poorly' report options, we need em. 

[Benden]

49 minutes ago, Tanatoy said:

 

A chat system can always be improved. I'm not saying the contrary anywhere here.

 

 

About the chat ban procedure/system : poor choice of word, it's not an improvement needed, it's a fix. It must at very least follow those simple recommandations  :

A graduated mechanism of sanctions. Those sanctions and the gradation should be clearly available and documented.
 
any sanction should result in the sending of a message (e-mail for example) this message contain minimum the following:
- information on the reason which provoked the sanction : Not the vague in game popup we have now but the accurate rule/section in the EULA that was not respected. In case of profanities, insults etc : the LOGS with exact terms used with their time stamps.
- information on the duration of the sanction;
- information on the procedure for contesting or appealing the sanction : and please, make the appeal procedure working, it is not implemented yet.

- A mediation process should be available to the players in case of dispute opponent to the editor and  this mechanism should be known to the player (let's dream).

 

source :  Online video games: FDI recommendation (French) (Chap VI, C,1-2)

 

About the chat system and the voice chat : You can get inspiration from the  plethora of online video games that are played today.

As I've suggested already, get inspiration from the Voice Chat System like the one set by Starsiege Tribes from 1998 !!

 

WG should pay us to be as constructive...

[matia251]

Quote

Try to give them advice instead of insulting them

Why should we try to give advice to a player who has 150-200 battles and already is using a T10?  Shouldnt this be your job to give proper advice as players progress to the higher tier ships so that when they enter battle with a T9-T10 ship at least they know BASIC things so they dont FRUSTRATE the rest? We told it a THOUSAND times, make quests that force players to understand the game mechanics for each ship, each ship's general role in the game, etc etc...That way you remove the problem at its root and chat will be much less toxic. Right now you are actually forcing players with "pre-school kid" experience to play with battle hardened/experienced adults and you blame all the toxicity to the players. Well its not like that at all, its not a matter of opinion but a fact you keep ignoring, probably because of the "diminishing returns/investment" cancer that plagues the gaming industry in general.

[Benden]

On 9/8/2019 at 1:38 PM, matia251 said:

Why should we try to give advice to a player who has 150-200 battles and already is using a T10?  Shouldnt this be your job to give proper advice as players progress to the higher tier ships so that when they enter battle with a T9-T10 ship at least they know BASIC things so they dont FRUSTRATE the rest? We told it a THOUSAND times, make quests that force players to understand the game mechanics for each ship, each ship's general role in the game, etc etc...That way you remove the problem at its root and chat will be much less toxic. Right now you are actually forcing players with "pre-school kid" experience to play with battle hardened/experienced adults and you blame all the toxicity to the players. Well its not like that at all, its not a matter of opinion but a fact you keep ignoring, probably because of the "diminishing returns/investment" cancer that plagues the gaming industry in general.

 

Quote

 

I'm just pointing out that we are all aware that a multiplayer game, even more a free 2 play game attracts plenty of different people from different horizons.

 

Just like when you're walking on the street. Just like you're playing football but where here, you have to accept to play with everybody. Does it give you the right to insult them ? No. 

 

Visibly Tanatoy and/or WG do not understand this : They designed this game, this is their space also it is  PEGI 7 so open to everyone literally. 

Wows is a NOT a public space, we're not on the street. It's a PRIVATE space defined by WG.

They designed the game, modes, enforcing THEIR rules and banning etc.

The problem is that WoWs is a TEAM game, you rely heavily on your teammates in each match. This is not Call of Duty or Battlefield or <insert the name of a mmog shooter/arcade game>.

So it's up to WG to design the game the way it DOES NOT frustrate people when they are playing the game. as matia says : we DONT have to educate people. It's normal to expect them to play the game as realiable team mates and it's human to be angry and to blame if they dont.

 

edit : actually I often try to give advice and direction in the game (breaking the silence in the chat box) : 90% of the time other players dont give a damn of what I type.

 

 

 

Quote

Benden... it would still not give you any right to "blew off some steam" by insulting other players. And it will not be our fault. We don't write down for you the insults that you may have put here. 

 

Don't go this way, WG support guy quoted me saying "you suck" as being offensive and worth a ban.... (yay, with other heaviers words but why including "suck" for crap sake).

Also, EVEN IF I am saying profanities, when WG is taking sanction it has to follow a proper procedure : we have to know why this sanction (xx days), we must be informed properly not by a game popup, being given the proper details of what deserved sanction etc.).

Do you imagine a cop arresting you in your car handing over the traffic ticket with -10 points, 200 € to pay  reason : you did not respect Traffic Laws, no appeal possible.

Now compare to what exists IRL and see the gap...

[Admiral_Chunder]

Current implementation of chat ban system is pathetic. Apparently WG have never heard how kids talk to each other at school or in the playground. Most of them could teach us a few new words I expect. Just received yet another chat ban. Last one only ended yesterday. Not sure what the triggers are now, but apparently you can't even tell you're team that they are [Edited]. 

 

"I say old boy, it's not an optimal tactical move to drive your CV straight towards the enemy at the start of the game you know."

 

Between CVs, WG's incompetence and inability to balance their own game and control powercreep and now this overzealous automated chat ban system, I'm beginning to think that my time and money could be better spent on some other pastime. WG's responses in this thread just make me want to vomit quite frankly. They clearly don't give a flying frick about this game or the quality of the experience for anyone. No one is going to be shocked or hurt by a few strong words, least of all the 12 year olds.

 

Edit reason: Language

[anonym_XGuN6pHmfiJ9]

So I turned off my chat. I can't send any messages anymore in game. That for 2 reasons.Reaction from me due to frustration isn't possible anymore (it wasn't like I gave great advice). But I also turned it off because sometimes I wanted to turn and all I did was make a message "qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq"  (to be clear i have an AZERTY-keyboard). 

 

Can I still be reported for misbehaving in chat? 

[ColonelPete]

3 minutes ago, Nibloke said:

Can I still be reported for misbehaving in chat? 

Yes, but it has no effect.

[159Hunter]

OP, very easy solution: turn off chat. It has multiple advantages:

a) you don't have to listen to idiots yelling at you to follow their magnificent plans (as in spawn at A and go to C on the 10 line);

b) you don't have people insult you for not saving them;

c) you can't insult people,  so you can't get banned;

d) if you do get banned: you won't notice anyways;

e) did I already say this: you don't need to interact with the idiots who think they're admirals, but in reality don't even know the difference between HE and AP?

 

[anonym_XGuN6pHmfiJ9]

Just now, ColonelPete said:

Yes, but it has no effect.

That makes no sense. None at all. 

 

The chat ban should bounce back to people making the bogus report. 

[LoveYouTooBuddy]

On 9/5/2019 at 12:29 AM, Jethro_Grey said:

Although, I learned that asking a Bismarck or Tirpitz player for support, is in 99.9999999999% of the cases a exercise in futility. And in a lot of cases even a simple request, politely asked, gets ignored followed by a reply of ‚noob‘ and a report. 

Lies! Lies and slander! Meanie! Stop besmirching the good name of Bismarck players. You, you... potty mouth! I'm going to report this comment. Where is the dang report button... 

[NothingButTheRain]

I see this topic making a return in somewhat regular intervals, so let me give some generic advice, as someone who has never received a chat ban (or not yet anyway).

 

If someone starts an argument with you, try to not go along with it. If they start insulting you, don't try to insult them back.

If you do see this happening, right click + report for bad chat, right click again and block messages, right click yet again and add to blacklist.

 

If someone is really out to get you, you will not be able to have a dialogue with such a person on any kind of equal footing. They have already gone past the stage of being able to see their own mistakes and they will tryhard to get you, any way that they can.

 

And even if it is someone who is genuinely dumb (dumb as in having a below-average WAIS-IV test result), you will not be able to teach this person much of anything. Remember that it is probably the middle of a battle and often people who have gotten triggered are not really capable of logic thinking anymore so it's pointless.

 

Ignore them, report them, but don't try to flame them back even though they can be wrong and breaking rules literally. Just don't. Yes this can be very hard.

 

Let the ban system take care of them or contact WG support if you think it's in any kind of way more serious.

[Tanatoy]

On 10/3/2019 at 11:46 AM, Admiral_Chunder said:

Current implementation of chat ban system is pathetic. 

Not sure what the triggers are now, but apparently you can't even tell you're team that they are f'ing useless idiots. 

 

WG's responses in this thread just make me want to vomit quite frankly. 

 

I''ve allowed myself to shorten your answer. So yes, indeed, as you just discovered yourself, you can't insult people or you will receive a chat ban for insults. For my answers, if they make you want to vomit, well, i'm quite sorry, but they will stay the same. 

 

On 10/5/2019 at 9:50 PM, NothingButTheRain said:

I see this topic making a return in somewhat regular intervals, so let me give some generic advice, as someone who has never received a chat ban (or not yet anyway).

 

If someone starts an argument with you, try to not go along with it. If they start insulting you, don't try to insult them back.

If you do see this happening, right click + report for bad chat, right click again and block messages, right click yet again and add to blacklist.

 

If someone is really out to get you, you will not be able to have a dialogue with such a person on any kind of equal footing. They have already gone past the stage of being able to see their own mistakes and they will tryhard to get you, any way that they can.

 

And even if it is someone who is genuinely dumb (dumb as in having a below-average WAIS-IV test result), you will not be able to teach this person much of anything. Remember that it is probably the middle of a battle and often people who have gotten triggered are not really capable of logic thinking anymore so it's pointless.

 

Ignore them, report them, but don't try to flame them back even though they can be wrong and breaking rules literally. Just don't. Yes this can be very hard.

 

Let the ban system take care of them or contact WG support if you think it's in any kind of way more serious.

Thank you! 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

It's not easy to keep one's cool in certain situations. You don't want to see my chat log. I am a crap poster by nature. I can smell the chatban hitting anytime I start going batshit. I do it on purpose until I get banned and the 1 - 3 day period helps me calm myself. Suddenly not being able to use chat at all makes me play better and stay calm more easily is why I rant and say bad stuff. Sometimes I need to force that ban to help me calm myself. 

 

I know it's a flaw and all and I'm trying to work on it. But I appreciate the chatban system for what it is and personally I don't see flaws in it. 

 

Regardless if you really can read chat logs and want to shake your head really hard @Tanatoy, have a careful look LOL

 

Ps: yes im braggin about being a bad boi in chat loool

[Rhineheart_Thor]

7 minutes ago, Yoshanai said:

It's not easy to keep one's cool in certain situations. You don't want to see my chat log. I am a crap poster by nature. I can smell the chatban hitting anytime I start going batshit. I do it on purpose until I get banned and the 1 - 3 day period helps me calm myself. Suddenly not being able to use chat at all makes me play better and stay calm more easily is why I rant and say bad stuff. Sometimes I need to force that ban to help me calm myself. 

 

I know it's a flaw and all and I'm trying to work on it. But I appreciate the chatban system for what it is and personally I don't see flaws in it. 

 

Regardless if you really can read chat logs and want to shake your head really hard @Tanatoy, have a careful look LOL

 

Ps: yes im braggin about being a bad boi in chat loool

 

Thats because you have not faced combat in real life, trust me in real combat you can wet your paints as much as you want, but you open your mouth while doing it, and some bad a$$ sniper is going to put a 7.62 in your sweed.

 

 

 

 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 1 Minute, Orcinus1 sagte:

 

Thats because you have not faced combat in real life, trust me in real combat you can wet your paints as much as you want, but you open your mouth while doing it, and some bad a$$ sniper is going to put a 7.62 in your sweed.

 

 

 

 

What? Lolololllollll

[Rhineheart_Thor]

6 minutes ago, Yoshanai said:

What? Lolololllollll

sweed = head= Brit army slang

 

open your mouth = make noise =

 

wet ya pants = make drama = Brit Army slang

 

7.62 = bullet

[DasTongle]

On 9/6/2019 at 2:16 PM, Benden said:

So imagine you are playing basketball,

bad analogy, if you go of on a player in your team or the opposing team you will get an instant Technical Foul if you play on any level that means something.