Double CV games

[MadBadDave]

On 9/4/2019 at 3:53 PM, Eagle_Six_TR said:

Can you please remove double CV games? What is the mindset behind double CV games I really want to know! I'm not having fun playing this game anymore. If you think double CV games are okay then give every ship a proper AA. 

WG’s PPP stars again, it’s been said already ; blame the research bureau, that and op cvs (if you can’t best em club others).  

[SvR1983]

Funniest Hosho game I had with another random hosho player. He sunk 7 ships, I did 5. We won by a small margin.

None of the other players on my team sunk any ships. They were just there to provide targets and cover us ^^.

[KillStealBoss]

2 hours ago, NoobySkooby said:

Please leave the Hosho alone and buff all RN CV's,  lol.

Hosho is OP to the maximum. Needs nerfes, imho the alpha dmg of those torps is too high. 

[asalonen]

1 hour ago, SvR1983 said:

Funniest Hosho game I had with another random hosho player. He sunk 7 ships, I did 5. We won by a small margin.

None of the other players on my team sunk any ships. They were just there to provide targets and cover us ^^.

I had a 6 CV game where the CV's sank a grand total of 19 ships. I wonder how important the surface ship players felt...

 

It's also fairly common for tier 4 and 5 games to end up as duels between 4 CV's, with everyone else dead.

[Rhoadie]

This is now a stupid game , i tried playing my t5 i wanted to progress but WGng was dead against me , so i swapped to my fave ship my svietlana and played 8 games .

 

1 game had  6 CV in it , the rest all had 4.

 

so it now seems that the norm is 4 cv , ok fine for cv pedobears , but to me its a crap game , spent dodging torps all game no fun , no play no pay.

 

8 games 6 losses WGng dont like me.

 

If i want to play carriers I log into Eve at least that fun .

 

If I had paid to play I would be on the phone to my credit card company asking for a refund as clearly the product is defective.

 

logging out wows and logging into Eve now 07

[Sunleader]

4 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

I'm pretty sure @Sunleader is/was in the process of grinding her and found her to be pretty decent.

Wouldn't really surprise me considering the 0.8.7 adjustment.

 

4 hours ago, CptBarney said:

Yeah not talking about 8 months ago.

 

Current version is trash.

 

The Implacable is actually not a Bad CV. Especially not after the AA Nerfs.

But I hate it like the Pest to be Honest.

Its absolutely not my Playstyle.

 

The Implacable has a Pretty Strong Damage Output. Especially because it can Cause Fires and Flooding with every Squadron pretty Reliably.

So for any BB Player this thing is a Complete Horror.  And the Carpet Bombers can actually Deal Significant Damage to DDs as well.

In that Aspect the Implacable is Awesome.

 

But this Pretty Good Damage Output comes at a Cost I really Hate.

That Cost is that you have Extremely Few Aircraft and Extremely Slow Aircraft Regeneration.

While Shokaku Starts out with 43 Aircraft on Deck. The Implacable Starts with only 30 Aircraft. And while Shokaku Regenerates 1 Aircraft of each Type in about 70 Seconds. The Implacable needs 100 Seconds.

And while at First Glance one would Expect that the Higher Amount of Hitpoints per Aircraft would Keep Losses Down. The Slow Speed of the British Aircraft Negates that Buff and makes you take roughly the same Losses as other CVs in T8.

 

So while you can Deal alot of Damage early in the Match. You become Useless extremely Fast. And in the Endgame you not only tend to have Run out of Aircraft. But you also Regenerate them Extremely Slowly.

So if you Seriously want to Play with this CV. You have to use Squad Shortening. Or you wont get Anywhere.

Moreover you often have to Actively Wait for Aircraft.

Because one thing often Named as an Advantage actually Starts to Play against you here.

 

The Japanese Torpedo Bombers can easily Keep Attacking even if you got only 3 Aircraft.

Because 1 Will be Shot down. And 2 will Drop Torps and then Return. And by the Time they come back another Aircraft was Restored and you can Attack again.

This works thanks to the Japanese Torpedo Bombers being Pretty Fast. And also because the Torpedoes are Pretty Fast and thus have to be Dropped from further Away.

 

The British Torpedo Bombers however. Need at least 4 Aircraft.

Because 2 Will be Shot down if you want to have both others Drop. And often you might even lose 1 more after the Attacking Squadron is Recalled thanks to how Slow they are. Worse. Thanks to the Slower Restoration Speed you cant keep doing this over and over. Instead being Forced to Wait.

This is because British Torps can be Dropped Extremely Close. But are also of course much Slower. And your Aircraft are Slower as well. Meaning you have to get Closer to the Enemy Short Range AA because you Drop Closer. And you have to Stay inside it Longer because your Aircraft are Slower. Hence causing these Additional Losses.

 

 

 

Now Thing is. I do not Shorten Squads. I consider it an Exploit.

Thanks to that. I tend to Run out of Aircraft Pretty Fast with this CV.

Its just Really not my Playstyle.

Now Gladly its still Powerful enough in the Early Game that I can still Win Games with it. Because I can Deal alot of Damage Early in the Game. Especially by putting Fires and Flooding on BBs (Fricking 50% Flood Chance for Torpedoes...)

But I consider it Pretty Boring towards the End.

 

 

[Hopeless_Guppy]

8 hours ago, MacArthur92 said:

Hosho is OP to the maximum. Needs nerfes, imho the alpha dmg of those torps is too high. 

Hmm I would still argue across the board all Torps need buffing to Hosho's standards, problem fixed, she ain't OP anymore, not if everyone one else in Ranger and Hermes,omg the Hermes can do the same.

[anonym_mlJIAFnOwMVb]

On 9/4/2019 at 4:02 PM, El2aZeR said:

Spreadsheet says is fun camrade.

can't believe I'm going to do this.....but I agree wholeheartedly with this comment.  

[CptBarney]

@Sunleader if i was wargaming i would buff planes hp by 20% and 25% at low and high tiers respectively, time to turn 360 decrease by 5%, bomb and rocket accuracy increased by 10% and fire chance by 5% plus damage for bombs by 10%. And increase bomb pen by 2mm’s at tiers 4 and 6. And by 4mm’s at tiers 8 and 10.

 

Knowing me i probs just made them a bit op lol especially with hermes, maybe just apply some of those at low and most at high tiers.

[LoveYouTooBuddy]

Don't want to make it sound like there are no tier 4 CV problems, but I think new players are shielded from it. I played... I mean my friend played soviet cruisers with new account and tier 4 randoms were with bot tier 4 CV. All of them... just 2-3 human, non CV players per team and all other were bots. You know, players named :Betty: and whatnot. Only when I got to the tier 5 Kirov I started seeing human CV players. I mean when my clan mate got to the Kirov. 

 

[mtm78]

25 minutes ago, LoveYouTooBuddy said:

Don't want to make it sound like there are no tier 4 CV problems, but I think new players are shielded from it. I played... I mean my friend played soviet cruisers with new account and tier 4 randoms were with bot tier 4 CV. All of them... just 2-3 human, non CV players per team and all other were bots. You know, players named :Betty: and whatnot. Only when I got to the tier 5 Kirov I started seeing human CV players. I mean when my clan mate got to the Kirov. 

 

 

Your ^friends new account probably hasn't unlocked PvP ;) You start in coop, so meeting bots seems kind of working as intended

[LoveYouTooBuddy]

7 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

 

Your ^friends new account probably hasn't unlocked PvP ;) You start in coop, so meeting bots seems kind of working as intended

I'm sure he played them in Random, he was testing it..

https://wows-numbers.com/player/565254136,LookAtTheMinimap/?

20 random games

14 coop

[mtm78]

Maybe there were very few players on the server who also were in protected MM still at the time? Yeah that's probably it then

[Seraduxos]

On 10/13/2019 at 12:40 PM, 631327334013 said:

With all due respect I disagree with your statement.

 

T4 CV,s control T4 games, because the T4 AA is inadequate, to the point there is no point playing T4 Random what so ever, if you use camouflage, modules and signals you are wasting your money.

 

Although I hate to say it, to train your captain skills you are better off in T4 Co-op with no camo, mods, signals, and grind out the XP or play a CV

 

ça ne fait rien,

 

T4 Random is dead at the moment IMHO.   

I´ve played loads of T4 in my Ishizuchi and that is def not a good AA ship, if i get focused by 2 CV´s it hurts sure, but only if the T4 game is dragged out, and frankly, pre T6 with the lack of range and BB dispercion spreading shots all over, people should push hard or there wasting there time, that sad double CV´s in any ranked is an issue, but it gets worse the higher you get, and even worse if you get double premium ones, 2x Enterprice can delete an entire fleat of DD´s in minutes, and 2x Kagas working together can strike out 1 ship with each launch of torp planes. I would not mind adding soft caps to CV´s on all ranks, thou if the soft cap hammer lands on CV´s maby all classes should get soft caps, you can make it so it´s just a 1-2 min timer, noone will stop playing because of that and in the long run it would make all ranks more fun to play.

[El2aZeR]

4 hours ago, LoveYouTooBuddy said:

I'm sure he played them in Random, he was testing it..

https://wows-numbers.com/player/565254136,LookAtTheMinimap/?

20 random games

14 coop

 

New players have protected MM until they reach a certain tier or a certain account level. Bots in randoms is normal for them.

[Sunleader]

8 hours ago, CptBarney said:

@Sunleader if i was wargaming i would buff planes hp by 20% and 25% at low and high tiers respectively, time to turn 360 decrease by 5%, bomb and rocket accuracy increased by 10% and fire chance by 5% plus damage for bombs by 10%. And increase bomb pen by 2mm’s at tiers 4 and 6. And by 4mm’s at tiers 8 and 10.

 

Knowing me i probs just made them a bit op lol especially with hermes, maybe just apply some of those at low and most at high tiers.

 

No.

 

1.

The Hermes is actually Perfectly Fine.

In Fact it can be Incredible Strong if Played Right.

Maybe not a Hosho. Because Hosho is Absurd right now and we really dont need CVs to go to that Level.

 

The Reason is that in Low Tiers you have Barely any AA especially AA that Kills Returning Planes before they become Immune.

And that your Ability to put Fires and Flooding on People is very High on T4.

And your Rockets are Incredible Accurate as well.

So it can actually cause alot of Havoc.

 

Same is True for the Furious. You dont need Penetration. Because your Target is not the 2k Damage from the Bombs. Its the 1-3 Fires you can set with each Carpet Bombing Run.

 

2.

And No to the T8 stuff as well.

No Offense to you. But Implacable is not Overpowered Right now.

But its far from being Unplayable.

I dont like it. Because its not my Playstyle and Includes too much Waiting Time.

But its still Stronger than any BB, CA or DD in the Game.

Honestly said. The Implacable right now. Is how ALL other CVs Should be.

Having a Pretty High Damage Potential if used Right and Carefully. But not being able to just Fly right into the Enemy Blob over and over again and still keep Bombing everyone regardless of losses.

 

In that Regard. The Implacable Right now is actually the Best Balanced CV. Because it cant just ignore AA over and over.

It does not need any Buffs.

[CptBarney]

1 minute ago, Sunleader said:

 

No.

 

1.

The Hermes is actually Perfectly Fine.

In Fact it can be Incredible Strong if Played Right.

Maybe not a Hosho. Because Hosho is Absurd right now and we really dont need CVs to go to that Level.

 

The Reason is that in Low Tiers you have Barely any AA especially AA that Kills Returning Planes before they become Immune.

And that your Ability to put Fires and Flooding on People is very High on T4.

And your Rockets are Incredible Accurate as well.

So it can actually cause alot of Havoc.

 

Same is True for the Furious. You dont need Penetration. Because your Target is not the 2k Damage from the Bombs. Its the 1-3 Fires you can set with each Carpet Bombing Run.

 

2.

And No to the T8 stuff as well.

No Offense to you. But Implacable is not Overpowered Right now.

But its far from being Unplayable.

I dont like it. Because its not my Playstyle and Includes too much Waiting Time.

But its still Stronger than any BB, CA or DD in the Game.

Honestly said. The Implacable right now. Is how ALL other CVs Should be.

Having a Pretty High Damage Potential if used Right and Carefully. But not being able to just Fly right into the Enemy Blob over and over again and still keep Bombing everyone regardless of losses.

 

In that Regard. The Implacable Right now is actually the Best Balanced CV. Because it cant just ignore AA over and over.

It does not need any Buffs.

Fair enough. You still need to dodge though since AA is still effective against bad players, unless losing planes is a new thing now.

 

I just got the impression the entire line was really bad, especially on youtube and reddit who seem to be kinda vocal about this.

 

Not only that but why are there no guides on how to play these ships by now? Even if something does change a simple guide on how the royal navy line works for example and exmaples games? (only seem to see very sparse gameplay all of it from 7-9months ago with top tier being the most recent and his vids showing the royal navy line to be less adequate).

 

Oh btw had like 3 peeps in the reeeework thread tell more about them but included you in them as well.

[Rhoadie]

first 2 fights tonite t5    both had 4 cv in them  3 fight had 2 but was normal wgng unbalanced crap

 

hey hoe hey hoe its off to eve i go

[Phayk]

It's not about games with multiple CVs really, it's the fact that CVs as a whole have - and always had - a horrible design.

 

Imagine - if you will - if Dota 2 had an invulerable hero that basically provides flying vision whereever he wants and can throw Sunstrikes with a long-ish cooldown.

 

That's kinda what CVs are. They have a currently unworkable and unfun design, regardless of whether there are 2 or 6 of them in a game.

 

Temporary solution would be to give an option that - when enabled - just doesn't put a CV into your game.

[OldPappy]

On 9/4/2019 at 4:53 PM, Eagle_Six_TR said:

Can you please remove double CV games? What is the mindset behind double CV games I really want to know! I'm not having fun playing this game anymore. If you think double CV games are okay then give every ship a proper AA. 

WG has stated that without 2 cv matches in low- mid tiers the waiting will be too long for players wishing to play cvs. And if you enjoy cv play I can understand this point and would have cheered it if it was for dds for example. I would have been pissed off if I had to wait a long time in my dd for every game if the nuumber had been capped at 1 dd per team!!

This does NOT mean I like 2 cv matches!!! Oh no it does not!!! Every time i get into 2 cv matches in my dd I feel like quitting or suiciding directly!! But when playing ( while gritting my teeth!!!) it’s usually not as bad as I feared!

I merely understand the reason for it. 😟

[kfa]

2 hours ago, Phayk said:

It's not about games with multiple CVs really, it's the fact that CVs as a whole have - and always had - a horrible design.

 

Imagine - if you will - if Dota 2 had an invulerable hero that basically provides flying vision whereever he wants and can throw Sunstrikes with a long-ish cooldown.

 

That's kinda what CVs are. They have a currently unworkable and unfun design, regardless of whether there are 2 or 6 of them in a game.

 

Temporary solution would be to give an option that - when enabled - just doesn't put a CV into your game.

Its your opinion, i have fun, yesterday, in a T10 battle, came top of my team with 4 kills in my Enterprise. 

[xRSxrs]

1 hour ago, OldPappy said:

WG has stated that without 2 cv matches in low- mid tiers the waiting will be too long for players wishing to play cvs. And if you enjoy cv play I can understand this point and would have cheered it if it was for dds for example. I would have been pissed off if I had to wait a long time in my dd for every game if the nuumber had been capped at 1 dd per team!!

This does NOT mean I like 2 cv matches!!! Oh no it does not!!! Every time i get into 2 cv matches in my dd I feel like quitting or suiciding directly!! But when playing ( while gritting my teeth!!!) it’s usually not as bad as I feared!

I merely understand the reason for it. 😟

 

CV matches, especially more than 2 CVs are lowering the number of ppl playing other ships. At least i am fed up with that, so i dont play randoms as much, bcs i like to play DDs and its not fun with 4 CV match. You cant torp bcs you cant get into torp range without being spotted and destroyed. Where is the fun dodging from plane attacks until you are back to port. Having said that its not fun in any other ship. 

That means even longer waiting time for CV player. Its a spiral going down.

 

 

T4 games were always with 2 CV per side with players that had 1000+ games in every T4 CV. 

[rilship]

I feel you OP, made and Open letter yesterday asking the same question.

[CptBarney]

3 hours ago, xRSxrs said:

 

CV matches, especially more than 2 CVs are lowering the number of ppl playing other ships. At least i am fed up with that, so i dont play randoms as much, bcs i like to play DDs and its not fun with 4 CV match. You cant torp bcs you cant get into torp range without being spotted and destroyed. Where is the fun dodging from plane attacks until you are back to port. Having said that its not fun in any other ship. 

That means even longer waiting time for CV player. Its a spiral going down.

 

 

T4 games were always with 2 CV per side with players that had 1000+ games in every T4 CV. 

Thats thanks to wargaming buffing the hell out of miss hosho, so padding your stats (literally) is so easy because you only need one plane type to kill every thing on the board.

 

Langley is a close second while hermes is good but just majorly overshadowed by the others.

 

It's rediculous but then there isn't much you can do about it.

 

Too bad the community didn't go into uproar mode when they saw the cv reeework, but oh well.

 

I suspect more CV lines once subs are done (mostly failed as i dont see how they can balance without being useless or OP or boring).

[mtm78]

40 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

Too bad the community didn't go into uproar mode when they saw the cv reeework, but oh well.

 

Yeah... or when WG suddenly tried to shoehorn submarines into the game...