Friesland: before you spend your FXP

[Panocek]

4 minutes ago, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

To clarify: 

 

A good player can utilize the DPM and fire starting capability, inspite of the disadvantages that come with it. 

 

A division can set up radar-ambushes together. 

 

The ship can work well. 

Kitakaze is just better. 

 

 

On other hand, if Fries would serve under Russian banner, then 1/4 HE pen would be an instant buff. And heals

[Dento_O]

22 hours ago, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

It does not have great ballistics.

• That means you can't just fight effectively at range like a French or RU DDs.

 

No, not really. I dropped CE and got AFT instead. As you said:

 

22 hours ago, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

It does not have high HP or a Heal.

14.8 km range is around 14 seconds of shell travel time whats similar to Kitakaze. 

Tried two games with CE and didn't really fail whilst (trying) to hunt DDs but lost way too much HP for it. 

AFT also allows you to open water gunboat easily! 

 

The spam 

[__Helmut_Kohl__]

23 minutes ago, Finxo_O said:

14.8 km range is around 14 seconds of shell travel time whats similar to Kitakaze. 

Tried two games with CE and didn't really fail whilst (trying) to hunt DDs but lost way too much HP for it. 

AFT also allows you to open water gunboat easily! 

 

The spam 

 

And now play Mogador and tell me you still like the Friesland. 

[Dento_O]

7 minutes ago, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

 

And now play Mogador and tell me you still like the Friesland. 

Mögador is a fine boat.

Friesland is pretty much just a mediocre fun boat. 

Sadly I didn't get to play my Mogador much. 

[__Helmut_Kohl__]

@Ev1n maybe you should make a TX variant that can actually utilize one of the 2 radar dishes on the ship instead of DefAA. 

 

That would be interesting. 

[ColonelPete]

I do not think we need another DD with radar.

 

Btw. first impressions:

[__Helmut_Kohl__]

39 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

I do not think we need another DD with radar.

 

Btw. first impressions:

 

Don't play dumb Pete, you know that the dedicated players have ships first and stats will drop. 

[ColonelPete]

3 minutes ago, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

Don't play dumb Pete, you know that the dedicated players have ships first and stats will drop. 

That is a FIRST impression!

Other people claim the ship is bad or useless without ANYTHING backing them up than their own opinion. But that is ok

 

[HMS_Kilinowski]

That's what I was wondering. For such a bad ship she is now starting to get good aggregate results, isn't she? So either now most of her owners are unicum level or there must be more than meets the eye.

 

I know nobody who would have the ship yet. I saw it in battles. My impression was that it has the dpm to hunt DDs. It even has some alpha damage, if you don't define it as damage per salvo but as damage until one can react to it and return fire. I have seen players go into fights with DDs, win the fights, retreat quite damaged and then use AR from the back of the line and spam HE from smoke like a miniature Smolensk. I don't think that playstyle has as much impact on the outcome of the battle as a DD who can be played around the caps, but the damage potential is substantial.

 

But then again I had a battle, where the last enemy ship alive was a Friesland and that ship became ridiculously toothless and begging to be blapped.

[__Helmut_Kohl__]

22 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

That is a FIRST impression!

Other people claim the ship is bad or useless without ANYTHING backing them up than their own opinion. But that is ok

 

 

Pete, some people here actually have a lot of skill and experience in DDs. They don't need your spreadsheet. 

[ColonelPete]

Just now, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

Pete, some people here actually have a lot of skill and experience in DDs. They don't need your spreadsheet. 

And these people say she is a decent, if not better, ship.

[__Helmut_Kohl__]

9 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

And these people say she is a decent, if not better, ship.

 

Show me a good player saying she is competitive compared to the other T9 DDs. 

[ColonelPete]

6 minutes ago, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

 

Show me a good player saying she is competitive compared to the other T9 DDs. 

I say that.

Bear_Necessities says she is ok.

 

But you should ask yourself this:

If she is such a bad ship, then the players bringing her up to the above shown performance must be really, really good.

And if your claim is true, then they would have known before that she is bad ship. And they bought her still?

[__Helmut_Kohl__]

6 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

I say that.

Bear_Necessities says she is ok.

 

You had one game in it.

Bear had 6 games with poor results.

 

Bear knows she is nowhere as good as Kitakaze. 

 

You naming yourself as a good player is cute. 

 

 

[quickr]

3 minutes ago, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

You had one game in it.

You also had one game in it before refunding it. Why is your opinion more important than Petes?

[Mr_Glitter]

33 minutes ago, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

Show me a good player saying she is competitive compared to the other T9 DDs. 

 

16 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

And if your claim is true, then they would have known before that she is bad ship. And they bought her still?

Maybe some guys got way too much free xp? Or some guys are spending their monthly wows ship budget? Who knows... 

This ship is far away from being a decent DD. Only DPM and AA are great. 

The ship would be decent with 6.0km concealment, with 6.4km it is just garbage. 

[__Helmut_Kohl__]

4 minutes ago, quickr said:

You also had one game in it before refunding it. Why is your opinion more important than Petes?

 

I just turned his spreadsheet argument against him.

 

I don't give much about the current stats of the ship, as the better players can make every ship work.

 

I have pointed out its weaknesses. Let me ask you if you would take it into Ranked. 

[HMS_Kilinowski]

So why is she sitting at 55.5% WR after 1100 games played? That is not one game played, that is not anecdotal. What's the story there? This is not a ship like Black, where only people repeatedly finishing Ranked had access to initially. The Friesland has become available for everyone for an everyday ressource, Is it really possible the stats are driven by super-unicums?

[quickr]

1 minute ago, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

I have pointed out its weaknesses. Let me ask you if you would take her into Ranked. 

Reading your posts in this topic, you are really going out of your way to discourage players from looking into and maybe acquiring Friesland. And all your experience is based on one game. I wonder, why should people listen to you over someone who played 10 or 30 or 50 games?

 

In ranked? Maybe for a game or two, but probably would switch into something more competitive as i progress thru ranks.

But again, competitiveness is not the only factor when looking into buying/acquiring new ships. "fun to play" also plays a role, a big role in my case, and this ship surely is fun to play.

[__Helmut_Kohl__]

Just now, HMS_Kilinowski said:

So why is she sitting at 55.5% WR after 1100 games played. That is not one game played, that is not anecdotal. What's the story there? This is not a ship like Black, where only people repeatedly finishing Ranked had access to initially. The Friesland has become available for everyone for an everyday ressource, Is it really possible the stats are driven by super-unicums?

 

Every new ship has good stats in the beginning, because the more dedicated players always get the new ships first. 

 

Over time, the stats always normalize. 

[Bellegar]

4 minutes ago, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

Let me ask you if you would take it into Ranked. 

Yes.

Spoiler

I have no other T9 DD

 

But in more seriousness, why does every newly released ship need to be the best? I mean, I'm not saying it's either good or bad (don't have it yet, and don't have any reference experience with DDs at that tier), but it's different and, according to some people here, fun to play. I'd say different playstyle and providing fun are the two most important aspects of buying a premium ship.

 

I can appreciate that a ship may be bad and that people won't buy it because of that. But this discussion is basically devolving into "I bought it and I think it's fun/decent" vs "I bought it and it sucks, therefore you shouldn't buy it". I think the first category has a good point: a ship can be very mediocre (maybe even on the bad side... cough Mikasa cough), as long as it provides fun it is worth buying, especially for a 'free' currency as Free XP.

The second category has less of a point: a ship being bad does not necessarily mean it isn't worth buying.

 

 

Oh and if it wasn't clear: no, of course I wouldn't bring Friesland into ranked ^^

[__Helmut_Kohl__]

Just now, quickr said:

Reading your posts in this topic, you are really going out of your way to discourage players from looking into and maybe acquiring Friesland. And all your experience is based on one game.

 

This is Azuma all over again and I don't like it. Seems like WG is only giving us weak ships for FXP now. 

 

Just now, quickr said:

I wonder, why should people listen to you over someone who played 10 or 30 or 50 games?

 

Do I need to play it more often to see the combination of bad concealment, HP, speed and ballistics? Will that change after 20 games? 

 

Sure I would make it work, but would it ever be as good as the competition? 

[HMS_Kilinowski]

1 minute ago, __Helmut_Kohl__ said:

 

Every new ship has good stats in the beginning, because the more dedicated players always get the new ships first. 

 

Over time, the stats always normalize. 

For the first 100-200 battles she was down to 48% at the bottom of the DD range. Then she accelerated up to 55%. So there is already a good amount of potato performance in the mix. Some ships started off well and then dropped in the past, but not more than 2-3 percentage points. I don't think the explanation is sufficient.

[Shaka_D]

9 hours ago, Ze_Reckless said:

Tip for DD fights: You want an unfair fight. If you can't get it don't engage.

So, good news! Against 95% of CV players your AA is good enough. (Damage was lower than my 80k average so far because of cyclone.)

I suppose people form their own opinions and whether they like a ship or not can depend on individual play styles. For me, as mentioned earlier, I watched two players of similar skills fight it out, a tier 7 dd versus the Friesland. Tier 7 dd almost won hands down were it not for a little luck. This brings me to two of your comments above:

 

The very fact you need an unfair fight to make a ship work properly rings a massive alarm bell......especially from what I witnessed when the tier dd 77 basically raped all the frieslands hp in moments. Secondly, cv's hardly feature in the game at all and when they do it's one cv in a game at this level. Why AA is so important I will never know. Assigning AA skills to captains and ships seems like a waste to me, apart from perhaps clan wars where cv's are allowed?

 

A dd is not a dd without her torps, unless they make her remarkable in some other way and from what I've seen and heard the Friesland is not remarkable at all. It's perhaps a cheap attempt to appease the European tech tree and delete some hard earned free xp. She doesn't have to be OP, but WG's marketing of her abilities is overly inflated.

[Episparh]

19 minutes ago, quickr said:

Reading your posts in this topic, you are really going out of your way to discourage players from looking into and maybe acquiring Friesland. And all your experience is based on one game. I wonder, why should people listen to you over someone who played 10 or 30 or 50 games?

 

In ranked? Maybe for a game or two, but probably would switch into something more competitive as i progress thru ranks.

But again, competitiveness is not the only factor when looking into buying/acquiring new ships. "fun to play" also plays a role, a big role in my case, and this ship surely is fun to play.

Well mate, I agree with you to some extend. But the truth is that this is the worst free XP ship ever sold.. 

Azuma is not even close to her. 

 

Friesland is one trick pony - good dpm for gun dd and that's all. Very heavy team dependable. Cannot deny area as other DD's - CA/CL/CB/BB will simply ignore her meaningless damage while pushing her away. The only DDs that have problem with her are the one that sit and wait in smoke or trying to chase and gun her down. 

 

Note at DD players facing Friesland:

 

Use smoke only to disengage and gain distence on her. 

Kite her away at 6+km while dodging incoming rainbow - probably she will use just front turret. 

Do not ever chase her - this increase her gun effectiveness and will give her ability to utilize both turrets and overwhelm you by dpm. 

 

Once players learn how to counter her, she will be a port queen for sure.