Excessive Criticism

[NothingButTheRain]

12 hours ago, Butterfield8 said:

Lately I have noticed quite a bit of excessive criticism during game play. "Report this person!" appears to be many players favorite commentary on other's abilities and play. This is a game! It is not life and death! I like to win as much as the next guy but when you act this way you are taking the fun out of it for yourself and those who may be playing with you! "Pull down your pants and slide on the ice!"

My personal experience is that if there is complaining by someone, it will manifest into either excessive mappinging along with something like "Coward campernoobs!" or something vaguely similar to that nature.

What you are describing sounds more like an actual act of intelligence 

[illy]

you can usually tell when you're having a good game is when you start getting slagged off by other players

[250swb]

1 hour ago, mtm78 said:

 

Sounds to me like the system there works as intended. 

 

 

Or a system that gives 'entitled' supremisists the ability to slap down players that don't conform to 'the plan'. 

 

You cant deny that players think they did better than other players just because something or other happened in the battle that caused them to have a little hissy fit. Reporting players for that is both pathetic and weak, blaming everything on somebody else and very rarely taking into account the things the 'entitled' player could have done better themselves.

 

So don't give me that crap that the reporting system works as intended because the players who survive or do more damage in a battle are 'better' than the players that don't, there is no way in WoWs to differentiate important influence on the battle from simple damage or kills.

[That_Other_Nid]

13 hours ago, Butterfield8 said:

Lately I have noticed quite a bit of excessive criticism during game play. "Report this person!" appears to be many players favorite commentary on other's abilities and play. This is a game! It is not life and death! I like to win as much as the next guy but when you act this way you are taking the fun out of it for yourself and those who may be playing with you! "Pull down your pants and slide on the ice!"

 

Well, we have the new mute button so that hardly matters. I mute anyone who talks a lot so I can see chat. 

 

[mtm78]

48 minutes ago, 250swb said:

Or a system that gives 'entitled' supremisists the ability to slap down players that don't conform to 'the plan'. 

 

You sound a bit emotional, sorry to hear that this touches something dear to you. 

 

48 minutes ago, 250swb said:

You cant deny that

 

I actually just confirmed what you said earlier...

 

3 hours ago, 250swb said:

I'd add into the category of toxic players those who report fellow teammates even though the battle was won. There is something very 'special' about these people who have so little empathy for anybody who's had a bad game but done the team no harm in the long term.

 

... is a bit of nonsense as this is exactly what 'plays poorly' is clearly intended to cover. If you did something stupid game, even if you get carried by someone else, that guy is still entiteld to report you for playing poorly ( the example I gave was trying to cap in a DD in smoke broadside and getting torped in 2 minutes, not saying that is you but those situations are per definition bad plays ). Yes even if I do it myself it's stil a bad play, I already admitted to that as well. 

 

Let's get back to the first sentence a bit shall we?

 

48 minutes ago, 250swb said:

'entitled' supremisists

 

Nope, sorry I just checked. Even I can report people for bad play, I think you can to just right click on their name then select report and I think it's the top most option from there?

 

48 minutes ago, 250swb said:

slap down players that don't conform to 'the plan'.

 

And why is this wrong? We're talking about reports, not over someone going ape nuts in battle chat are we? If the whole team decides A + B and you're the BB which goes alone to C and dies to the DD there which was just going to cap but suddenly got a whole free buffet served on a platter, why would it be wrong to 'slap them down' by reporting them for bad play? 

 

If you tell them they made some questionable decissions during the game, you're suddenly a 

48 minutes ago, 250swb said:

'entitled' supremisists

so reporting for bad play is the out which WG gives people. And don't worry, plays poorly does nothing but lower your karma. Which is why toxic people always report using bad language hoping to trigger an automated ban. 

 

48 minutes ago, 250swb said:

pathetic and weak

 

Yes, some gameplay decissions are indeed that bad, glad you also see this. Hopefully, they will happen less and less. 

 

48 minutes ago, 250swb said:

very rarely taking into account the things the 'entitled' player could have done better themselves

 

Because it's irrelevant. Yes, maybe he could have carried even harder but he forgot to put on his unicorn socks. Who cares. What is important is why he had to carry so hard in the first place. 

 

48 minutes ago, 250swb said:

So don't give me that crap 

Painfull it must be, looking in a mirror. 

 

48 minutes ago, 250swb said:

the reporting system works as intended

yes it does, with 'plays poorly' being the best report option given by WG which is actually non toxic to boot. 

 

48 minutes ago, 250swb said:

because the players who survive or do more damage in a battle are 'better' than the players that don't

Actually they are, because they aren't death. Being death kind of limits your influence on the game. Doing no dmg or nothing else usefull also doesn't exhert any influence on the outcome so off course those players are worse, and the players who carry them are better. 

 

48 minutes ago, 250swb said:

there is no way in WoWs to differentiate important influence on the battle from simple damage or kills

Solo wr, preferably from a large dataset ( couple of hundred games at least ). 

 

But you sound like the type of guy who thinks wr is luck anway. 

 

edit: if you don't think wr is luck, we got a basis to start anew. Maybe on a more positive note. Like: how do I prevent people from reporting me for 'plays poorly'. Or if you want, we could even debate the merit of 'plays poorly' as a report option.  But please, stop being so toxic with your language it is very hard to properly give an answer especially since you seem to not always make fully coherent sentences. 

[250swb]

14 hours ago, mtm78 said:

 

 why would it be wrong to 'slap them down' by reporting them for bad play? 

 

 

Because going back to my original point, you've won the [edited]battle, what is it about winning that gives you the right to not stand tall as a team? Just mean spirited?

*edited*

 

Removed personal attacks.

 

Arty_McFly

[mtm78]

 

13 hours ago, 250swb said:

Because going back to my original point, you've won the [edited]battle, what is it about winning that gives you the right to not stand tall as a team? Just mean spirited? 

*edited*

Idk what your personal issue with me is, but you shouldn't take it out on a forum really. Also, if my soccer team won but I let their attacker get a free chance to score against us when there was no need, I'd be [edited]roasted just as I should. Standing tall is not the same as covering up bad plays, only teams which have accepted they are bad act like that. Gladly I usually stand tall not because of 'team' but because of what I contribbuted to the team. 

[HMS_Kilinowski]

On 9/2/2019 at 8:32 AM, Butterfield8 said:

Lately I have noticed quite a bit of excessive criticism during game play. "Report this person!" appears to be many players favorite commentary on other's abilities and play. This is a game! It is not life and death! I like to win as much as the next guy but when you act this way you are taking the fun out of it for yourself and those who may be playing with you! "Pull down your pants and slide on the ice!"

Don't take it too hard. We are at the end of a Ranked Season. Many players had a lot of frustrating experiences having to carry utter potatoes who were too stubborn to see they are not supposed to be below rank 10. Tempers are a little high currently. Alos we had lots of school kids, bored during the summer holidays who continued their accounts and played awful. It really way close to unbearable to watch. It will even out in the next couple of weeks and so will the criticism.

Nevertheless any criticism should not be reduced to its form and wording, but be examined as to his validity. Maybe some of your choices were poor. If you understand how to avoid mistakes, you will get something out of this criticism, namely self-improvement, whereas just feeling insulted will hamper your progress. Be positive, even if others are not.

17 hours ago, 250swb said:

I'd add into the category of toxic players those who report fellow teammates even though the battle was won. There is something very 'special' about these people who have so little empathy for anybody who's had a bad game but done the team no harm in the long term.

That is why I always look up stats on players before reporting them. Any average or good player is entitled to have a rush of excrement to the brain every now and them. Also fresh players with less than 500 battles I usually don't report. Everybody deserves a grace period.

If however the (hidden) stats suggest that player is experienced but does not make an effort in general, I feel he sabotages the game on purpose, which I find toxic.

The least toxic game mode is Clan Battles. That is not a coincidence. Might that be because everybody makes an effort?

14 hours ago, 250swb said:

 

Or a system that gives 'entitled' supremisists the ability to slap down players that don't conform to 'the plan'. 

 

You cant deny that players think they did better than other players just because something or other happened in the battle that caused them to have a little hissy fit. Reporting players for that is both pathetic and weak, blaming everything on somebody else and very rarely taking into account the things the 'entitled' player could have done better themselves.

 

So don't give me that crap that the reporting system works as intended because the players who survive or do more damage in a battle are 'better' than the players that don't, there is no way in WoWs to differentiate important influence on the battle from simple damage or kills.

As I understood @mtm78, he did not in general accuse players dying early as bad ones, nor did he imply surviving players are entitled to judge them. His remark was purely on the quality of the action that caused a players death. Each player, by joining a battle, takes a resposibility for the team to fulfil a certain role. The team counts on him doing his job. Players base their decisions on the fact that other players are next to them. I once had a game where the DD went into the cap cause he was backed by a radar cruiser, the radar cruiser then turned away and sailed along the border at the back of the map. It was at this very important moment that he jeopardized single-handedly the win of the team. The DD got wiped out.

We still won that game, with this cruiser all the way back, not shooting, not doing anything. Now how does winning or losing the game make any difference in defence of that player's action? Did his bad action motivate the team to play harder and so we owe him that we won?

 

13 hours ago, 250swb said:

Because going back to my original point, you've won the [edited]battle, what is it about winning that gives you the right to not stand tall as a team? Just mean spirited? 

*edited*

You didn't help in the kitchen, you don't sit at the table. Simple as that.

[250swb]

3 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

 

 

Idk what your personal issue with me is, but you shouldn't take it out on a forum really. Also, if my soccer team won but I let their attacker get a free chance to score against us when there was no need, I'd be [edited]roasted just as I should. Standing tall is not the same as covering up bad plays, only teams which have accepted they are bad act like that. Gladly I usually stand tall not because of 'team' but because of what I contribbuted to the team. 

I have no personal issue with you, only the idea that being mean spirited should be an intrinsic part of the game. If you having nothing nice to say about a winning team show some self control and keep it buttoned, otherwise somebody may assume you are a miserable sod.

[250swb]

1 minute ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

 

 

You didn't help in the kitchen, you don't sit at the table. Simple as that.

I doubt if given a choice in Random MM that anybody would actually choose to sit at your table, but do you imagine you are inviting people to play with you, get over yourself pompous prig!

[El2aZeR]

3 minutes ago, 250swb said:

If you having nothing nice to say about a winning team show some self control and keep it buttoned

 

Because learning from mistakes even when you came out on top in the end is complete hogwash after all. 

[HMS_Kilinowski]

8 minutes ago, 250swb said:

 pompous prig!

I think you need to urgently control your wordings. It is nobody's fault if you feel you got reported unjustified in the past. If you have zero karma (don't know, maybe?) that should first and foremost be an occasion to critically review your playstyle.

 

edit: Let me clarify for the simple-minded.

Some people have problems with game concepts as well as metaphors. The mataphor of sitting at a table is the reward for a mutual effort. Everybody helps together to get some food on the table. The table is not mine nor yours nor anybody's. It stands for the community eating that mutually prepared meal, the reward. Why should somebody be allowed to share that reward, if he did not help preparing it?

[250swb]

Just now, El2aZeR said:

 

Because learning from mistakes even when you came out on top in the end is complete hogwash after all. 

 

OK, here's one for those who aren't psychics, how does a normal player, not a psychic and not a stage act, know what they are supposed to learn from being reported? Some thought transference maybe hidden in the 'report' button? It doesn't show up on anybody's screen, there is no message.

[250swb]

8 minutes ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

I think you need to urgently control your wordings. It is nobody's fault if you feel you got reported unjustified in the past. 

I wasn't even talking about myself, I never said I had an issue with being reported myself. So do try to keep up, but I admit it may be difficult among the admittedly erroneous embellishments by others to try and fashion their point. I was talking about the overall level of miserable bastards in the game, whoever that qualifies in or out.

[mtm78]

13 hours ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

His remark was purely on the quality of the action that caused a players death. Each player, by joining a battle, takes a resposibility for the team to fulfil a certain role. The team counts on him doing his job. Players base their decisions on the fact that other players are next to them. I once had a game where the DD went into the cap cause he was backed by a radar cruiser, the radar cruiser then turned away and sailed along the border at the back of the map. It was at this very important moment that he jeopardized single-handedly the win of the team. The DD got wiped out.

We still won that game, with this cruiser all the way back, not shooting, not doing anything. Now how does winning or losing the game make any difference in defence of that player's action? Did his bad action motivate the team to play harder and so we owe him that we won?

 

This.

 

Exactly that, worded in a much better way as I did. 

 

13 hours ago, 250swb said:

only the idea that being mean spirited should be an intrinsic part of the game

 

Again, the report option "plays poorly" is there by design. You can't argue against it being part of the game. Also, see the long explanation from @HMS_Kilinowski on what the report option is about. 

 

13 hours ago, 250swb said:

If you having nothing nice to say about a winning team

The report option isn't there to report a team winning, the game statistics keep track of that. The report option is there to cover a single action as described above so nicely. 

 

13 hours ago, 250swb said:

show some self control

and use the report option WarGaming gave us.

 

13 hours ago, 250swb said:

otherwise somebody may assume you are a miserable sod

Which is not my concern. My concern with reporting someone for poor play is because he did something which warranted that report. 

 

13 hours ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

If you have zero karma (don't know, maybe?) that should first and foremost be an occasion to critically review your playstyle.

Now now... that hurts right in the feels you know. It's not always playstyle

 

13 hours ago, 250swb said:

how does a normal player, not a psychic and not a stage act, know what they are supposed to learn from being reported?

Reflect on the actions he took during the game he got reported for?

 

Then again, if you're really just upset in general and it wasn't me you think who reported you ( might be, could be, I would probably forget pretty quickly so not sure... ), the first thing to take notice of when judging reports -> some reports are from 'bad people' and I don't mean bad players but bad people, who just use the report option to cause some grief. If you really can't imagine why you got reported, it's probably better, especially for yourself, to just move on from it. 

 

13 hours ago, 250swb said:

I was talking about the overall level of miserable bastards in the game, whoever that qualifies in or out.

 

Nah this was pretty specific 'friend' 

13 hours ago, 250swb said:

*edited*

 

You quote me, you adress me with 'you', seems quite clear you're talking to me aren't you? 

 

 

 

[250swb]

3 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

 

Which is not my concern. My concern with reporting someone for poor play is because he did something which warranted that report. 

 

 

 

 

The God complex you mean? 'I can do it so I will do it', again not something that survives in real life.

[mtm78]

Just now, 250swb said:

The God complex you mean?

 

Again, I am explaining how the report function is implemented, and you're personally blaming me for using it. It's there by design, and if you're unable to reflect on your past actions when you notice you been reported well that sounds like a personal problem to me. 

[HMS_Kilinowski]

10 minutes ago, 250swb said:

I wasn't even talking about myself, do try to keep up, but I admit it may be difficult among the admittedly erroneous embellishments by others to try and fashion their point.

I see, so you would say you are a lawyer of the unjustifiedly reported, while you are not affiliated. Your agitation is not based on any personal feelings, it is rather your sense of justice that drives you.

 

6 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

Now now... that hurts right in the feels you know. It's not always playstyle

Not always, as a loss is not always your fault. It is in the lack of positive karma over thousands of battles, similar to bad stats over such a long period, where a pattern emerges. You can be a good player and still get reported a lot. Usually that is because you insult people a lot. I occasionally insult people, when they deserve it, still I am sitting on 3-digit karma. Guess overall I must have something right. Ofc there is always room for improvement and no number has ever indicated you are at the end of your journey.

 

4 minutes ago, 250swb said:

 

The God complex you mean? 'I can do it so I will do it', again not something that survives in real life.

It does. The bad players are playing bad, cause they can, which doesn't stop them from continuing to do so, neither does any amount of reports or criticism. So in a way that very much survives in real life.

[250swb]

1 minute ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

I see, so you would say you are a lawyer of the unjustifiedly reported, while you are not affiliated. Your agitation is not based on any personal feelings, it is rather your sense of justice that drives you.

 

I'm at a loss to know where that came from, perhaps start again with the thread as see what my point was before being mangled by others?

[250swb]

3 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

 

Again, I am explaining how the report function is implemented, and you're personally blaming me for using it. It's there by design, and if you're unable to reflect on your past actions when you notice you been reported well that sounds like a personal problem to me. 

You have a button you can press, it doesn't mean you have to press it, you won the battle....................

[HMS_Kilinowski]

2 minutes ago, 250swb said:

I'm at a loss to know where that came from, perhaps start again with the thread as see what my point was before being mangled by others?

Perhaps not. After all, I am a pompous prig, as you said, so I got a reputation to live up to.

[250swb]

5 minutes ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

Perhaps not.

Well I don't blame you for not rehashing the whole thing. But beware 'alternative facts' in future, just because somebody says something it doesn't always represent the truth, and neither does pressing the report button because you have a God Complex. 

[mtm78]

10 minutes ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

Not always, as a loss is not always your fault. It is in the lack of positive karma over thousands of battles, similar to bad stats over such a long period, where a pattern emerges.

 

Can I quote myself then

 

11 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

if you're unable to reflect on your past actions when you notice you been reported well that sounds like a personal problem to me

 

10 minutes ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

no number has ever indicated you are at the end of your journey

 

7 minutes ago, 250swb said:

You have a button you can press, it doesn't mean you have to press it, you won the battle....................

 

Again, the button isn''t about winning the battle, it's about a safe way to vent frustration without expressing it in chat. Plays poorly is a catch all report option, and it's there so people do not make chat toxic, like with making up stories about others who have an opinion you don't like. 

 

Why you got reported probably has no influence on the battle, not if you won anyway. But you can still deserve a report even in a game which was won. Heck you wouldn't believe the amount of reports I sometimes get when winning and being on top of the scoreboard with double my runner up ( hasn't happened much recently sadly ).

 

2 minutes ago, 250swb said:

and neither does pressing the report button because you have a God Complex

 

I'm starting to wonder if having a god complex wouldn't be preferable over not having one, while reading your reactions. 

[El2aZeR]

24 minutes ago, 250swb said:

how does a normal player, not a psychic and not a stage act, know what they are supposed to learn from being reported?

 

Any bad player normally gets way more than that. Should be enough of an indication but they'll usually just brush it away with "OMG I PLAY FOR PHUN!" or a similarly pathetic excuse ofc.

As such they most likely don't even if they're given all possible signs. Some reports added on top is thus a result of their toxic gameplay and rightfully so. Whether they win or lose is irrelevant.

[250swb]

1 minute ago, mtm78 said:

 

 

Why you got reported probably has no influence on the battle, not if you won anyway. But you can still deserve a report even in a game which was won. Heck you wouldn't believe the amount of reports I sometimes get when winning and being on top of the scoreboard with double my runner up ( hasn't happened much recently sadly ).

 

I find it hard to understand why you want to defend that as something you do to others never mind what they do to you. Don't you realise you make the report function of the game worthless and of no value? Reporting for minor unjustifiable things is just 'handbags at dawn', nobody ends up looking good and it does nothing for the integrity of the game or reporting system. It's crying wolf, somebody has a bad game, you don't know why, but you set yourself up as either the great overseeing God or a jealous or mean spirited individual who was on the team but not part of the team. It's time to decide if this is a team game and you stand by the team or you are criticising anybody that isn't you.