aa rework Feedback on the new AA System.

[Sunleader]

Guys. Lets make this Quick.

 

The New AA Rework SUCKS.

It has basicly Catapulted us back into 0.8.3 with CVs being Semi Godmode and there being 0 Counterplay against CVs.

 

We are back to CVs being the Death itself.

When I play as a CV right now. I dont need to Spend any Effort or have any Skill to completely Ruin someones Gameplay Experience.

 

At the Beginning of the Round. I send out the Squads to look what Dishes the Matchmaker has Spawned for me.

And then I decide which one I would like to feast on.

The Dishes are not asked about this. They cant do anything about it anyways.

I decide that I want to kill this Guy there. And so I am going to Kill him. He can Struggle and Complain. But he wont change the Result.

 

His absolute BEST CASE SCENARIO. The absolutely BEST THING he can do. Is to try and waste as much of my Time as possible. Sacrificing himself for his Team while he wont get any Reward or any Fun in this Match.

 

 

See Guys.

I am an Average Casual Potato.

My WR usually Sits around 49-51% And thats also what I would get if you extracted CV Games from my Statistics.

Because for CVs its Different.

For CVs despite having Played them a bit before the Rework. My Winrate is going Steadily towards the 60% Mark.

 

Which is not Surprising.

Because See. After the AA Rework my CV Matches are looking like this again.

 

 

And I am not even Playing Seriously.

I am just Fooling about. Abusing the Fact that AA has become completely useless.

And just Blapping DDs and Cruisers out of the Match by keeping them permanently spotted and lavishing Torpedoes and Bombs on them.

 

 

 

 

See Guys.

As a CV. I dont even NOTICE the New AA System itself.

3.5% Instant Damage IS NOT EVEN ENOUGH TO FREAKING TURN A SINGLE OF MY PLANES YELLOW FOR HEAVENS SAKE!!!!!!

I cant even Tell wether or not someone has actually Freaking USED the New System against me.

 

Thats how Incredible Weak this new System is.

In Exchange for this 3.5% Instant Damage which DOES ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

We lost 10-30% of the Continues AA Damage. (Depending on the Ship)

Basicly making sure that even the most Potato CV which has no Skill Whatsoever. Will still be able to get one Strike out even if he Attacks a Pack of 3-4 Enemy Ships which are all Pro Players and which will all use the AA Sector 100% Correctly.

 

 

 

 

 

See Guys.

I was actually very Hopeful for the New AA System.

I tought. The New AA System will basicly make it so. That we get some Actual Counterplay.

 

AA Would become rather Weak when only used Passively. And thus unless the Player Pays Attention would not really do much.

But when you Activated the AA Sector at just the Right Time. You would cause Quite the Losses to the Attacking Squadron and if you had several People use it at once you might even be able to Completely Deny a Strike.

Of course if you activated it at the wrong time you might also castrate your AA and end up not doing anything to the Squadron for the next 15 Seconds because you messed up.

 

That would have been Great. Because this way. We would have actual Gameplay and Counterplay in this again.

The CV would need to take Care who he Attacks and when he Attacks. Like a Cruiser does against BBs. Or BBs do against DD Torpedoes. The CV could try to Bait the AA Sector from the Ship to then afterwards Strike with little Resistance.

Other way around. The Surface Ship might wait for the right moment to Trigger the AA Fire to cause quite a Devastating Damage and really make the Strike Costly to the CV.

 

 

But with the Current Way the System has been Gimped to uselessnes. This is Impossible.

As the AA Burst is so incredible Weak. I cant even tell if someone has used it on my Squadron or not.

Its doing absolutely nothing.

And with AA having been Nerfed so Hard. That when the Surface Ships DOES EVERYTHING 100% Correct WITHOUT EVEN A SINGLE MISTAKE the AA will still not be as Strong as it was in 0.8.6 with the Player just having the Sector aiming towards the Enemy Fleet.

 

Any and all Counterplay has basicly been Removed from the CV Gameplay.

As a CV I completely Ignore AA by now. Most of the time I dont even bother Evading Heavy AA anymore. Because even if I get hit by a Black Puff. The Continues AA and the Burst Damage is just not Strong enough to really Exploit it and somehow prevent me from Striking again.

 

 

Long Story Short.

The New AA System is incredible Bad.

 

Pls either Fix this System or Revert it back to the Old System.

We had Ridiculously Overpowered CVs for Months now.

And in T4 and T6 you basicly Constantly have 2 CVs by now.

Heck in T4 you often got more Players waiting in CVs for a Match. Than you have other Classes Combined.

Because everyone wants to have a ride on Godmode in the Game.

 

 

Simple examples that could be done.

 

1.

Double the Sector Reinforcement.

Basicly when you Choose a Sector on a Cruiser.

You Currently get 150% on that Sector. And 50% on the other Side.

Instead make it 200% on that Sector and 50% on the other Side.

 

This would at least give you back some actual AA Damage when you Actively Look out for Aircraft.

 

2.

Increase the Instant Damage Burst.

Without Manual AA Skill it should do 9% Damage to A Squadrons Remaining HP.

So that at least on 12 Aircraft Squadrons it will Destroy ONE yes JUST ONE Aircraft.

And on Squadrons which has 10 or less Aircraft it will NOT EVEN DESTROY AN AIRCRAFT. But at least Turn on Aircraft Red or Yellow.

So you at least have ANY EFFECT AT ALL from this.

With Manual AA Skill it should Deal 15% Damage. So usually Guaranteeing at least 1 Aircraft Kill.

 

This would give the Instant Damage Burst some Effect at least. The CV would at least notice that he got hit by Something.

it would of course still be more of a Lipservice than an actual Deterrent.

But at least this way you would be able to prevent that a CV just keeps circling you in his Squadron  for 3 Hours. Because he would at least take a a tiny loss each time you Activate the Skill.

 

3.

Increase Catapult Duration and Effectiveness.

Right now. Fighters are pretty useless.

Their Area of Interception is so small that if the Enemy Ship Triggers it 5km before I arrive at him. I can Fly through it before the Fighters even Activate.

And the Catapult Fighters are so Weak. That even if I trigger them. They will cost me like 3 Aircraft from my Squadron and thats all.

 

So either

A.

You increase the Aggressiveness of these Catapult Fighters.

So that they will Automaticly Intercept any Enemy Bomber Squadron in a 5km Range around your Ship and try to prevent it from Bombing you.

Thus at least making it so that you can make it Cost an Enemy CV if he Attacks you.

 

Or

B.

You increase the Duration of the Catapult Fighters.

So that they Stay above your Ship for 3-5 Minutes instead of ONE minute. And thus actually can be used to Escort you for a bit.

 

and then

C.

You could of course also keep them at 1 Minutes and with a Small Action Radius.

And instead make them into an actual Threat. Giving them Sufficient Ammunition that in the rare case of them being activated by the Enemy. They actually at least Destroying the Enemy Squadron.

And not just killing 3 Aircraft and Retreating....

 

 

4.

CV Fighters are just as useless.

But since they can be used for Scouting they need extra Attention.

 

A.

Remove their Ability to Scout Ships.

Seriously. They should not Spot Ships.

Carrier Fighters did not have the Vision and Equipment to accurately Spot Ships anyways.

At best they should give a Minimap Position of Enemy Ships but not actually Spot it.

Similar to the First 20 Seconds of Radar.

 

B.

Make CV Fighters Homing instead of Guarding.

CV Fighters when Spawned. Should just look for the Next Aircraft within 10km and Attack it.

Not Fly Circles around a Micro Area where they got Spawned....

 

This way at least CVs can provide some Air Cover to Friendly Ships by Spawning Fighters which will then AT LEAST TRY to Intercept Enemy Bombers.

And which will not be placed above an Allied Ship and then ONLY ACTIVATE AFTER THIS SHIP HAS ALREADY BEEN BOMBED.

 

 

 

 

Greetz Sun.

 

[Gvozdika]

AA has been nerfed across the board I agree - particularly cruisers like the Salem/DM, Mino and Worc. Now we're back to BBs having the strongest AA outfits tier-for-tier. Flak continues to be the most useless mechanic in the game - the only way you'll take flak damage is if you actively try to fly INTO it. Playing as a T8 CV in T10 MM is much easier now - in fact quite a bit TOO easy now. When you're routinely able to bomb T10 cruisers without many plane losses you know something is out of sorts...

 

However I'm not overly concerned. CV numbers in matches are down so the encounters with good ones are similarly infrequent. I think WG will probably end up swinging back the other way before long. 

 

 

[Bear__Necessities]

You’d think that. But I still see so so so many potato CV’s who can’t make any decent contribution to the teams.

[Panocek]

1 minute ago, Gvozdika said:

Now we're back to BBs having the strongest AA outfits tier-for-tier

Umm, since day one of the REEEwork battleships had the best AA suite of all ship classes. And I'd say even before, as only redeeming factor was access to DFAA to temporarily crank up numbers.

[Pikkozoikum]

3 minutes ago, Gvozdika said:

AA has been nerfed across the board I agree - particularly cruisers like the Salem/DM, Mino and Worc. Now we're back to BBs having the strongest AA outfits tier-for-tier. Flak continues to be the most useless mechanic in the game - the only way you'll take flak damage is if you actively try to fly INTO it. Playing as a T8 CV in T10 MM is much easier now - in fact quite a bit TOO easy now. When you're routinely able to bomb T10 cruisers without many plane losses you know something is out of sorts...

 

However I'm not overly concerned. CV numbers in matches are down so the encounters with good ones are similarly infrequent. I think WG will probably end up swinging back the other way before long. 

 

 

But Wargaming said, they want adjust the extremes. Thus ships like DM, Mino and Worcester get worse obvioulsy. But super aa-weak ships are now a bit better as well. As long as I tested ships like Aoba

[Pikkozoikum]

1 minute ago, Bear_Necessities said:

You’d think that. But I still see so so so many potato CV’s who can’t make any decent contribution to the teams.

That's the major problem, if it comes to comparisons. You never now if a certain fact bases on good player vs bad player, or bad vs good or even players.

I mentioned a lot, that people don't use the sector system.

While I played ships like Aoba and got some plane kills. My record was over 40 plane kills with Yubari - that gave us the win, because two CVs tried to kill me for 10 minutes, thus they had 2 less ships on their side

[Sunleader]

6 minutes ago, Bear_Necessities said:

You’d think that. But I still see so so so many potato CV’s who can’t make any decent contribution to the teams.

 

This is not Surprising.

Most People tend to Forget this.

But the more Overpowered a Class is. The harder it becomes for that Class to Win when your noot a Good Player.

 

Because the more Overpowered your Class is. The more it is you who is influencing the Outcome of the Match.

Right now CVs of course take this to an Absurd level.

 

If your CV is a Noob. And the Enemy CV is Good.

Then well. Sure the Enemy Ships can still not do much about your CV.

And your CV will happily make alot of damage and maybe even kill someone.

 

But as he doesnt know what targets are importand and as he wont be able to properly support his team.

While the Enemy CV is easily Diminishing your Team in Importand Places.

You will Lose.

 

 

 

This does not happen when your Class is Balanced.

Because when your Class is not Overpowered.

When your a Noob. You will only have a Bad Game yourself.

Your not the Game Deciding Factor. So even if you dont do well while your Counterpart does. Your Team has a Fair Chance of making this Game work.

Because they can outbalance the other guy doing better if they do better than their Counterpart.

 

So when your Class is weaker. You have a much Easier Time to Win when your not a very Good Player.

When your Class is Overpowered. You have a very hard Time Winning when your not a very Good Player.

[thiextar]

nerfing dfaa on cruisers is so dumb.

 

Its just stupid that battleships are now the strongest aa ships... after all, we cant have battleships be weak to anything

[Pikkozoikum]

11 minutes ago, thiextar said:

nerfing dfaa on cruisers is so dumb.

 

Its just stupid that battleships are now the strongest aa ships... after all, we cant have battleships be weak to anything

Don't see that as nerf, it's a change. And especially for low dps cruisers it's a buff.

[Molly_Delaney]

Since the rework I seem to be shooting down more planes; could be more effective AA, more effective use of AA (I've learnt how to use it) or just bad CV players.

 

Much easier to look at planes and press O than whatever it was before.

[Padds01]

58 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Guys. Lets make this Quick.

 

 

See Guys.

I am an Average Casual Potato.

My WR usually Sits around 49-51% And thats also what I would get if you extracted CV Games from my Statistics.

Because for CVs its Different.

For CVs despite having Played them a bit before the Rework. My Winrate is going Steadily towards the 60% Mark.

 

 

 

See Guys.

As a CV. I dont even NOTICE the New AA System itself.

3.5% Instant Damage IS NOT EVEN ENOUGH TO FREAKING TURN A SINGLE OF MY PLANES YELLOW FOR HEAVENS SAKE!!!!!!

I cant even Tell wether or not someone has actually Freaking USED the New System against me.

 

 

See Guys.

I was actually very Hopeful for the New AA System.

I tought. The New AA System will basicly make it so. That we get some Actual Counterplay.

 

 

But with the Current Way the System has been Gimped to uselessnes. This is Impossible.

 

 

Long Story Short.

The New AA System is incredible Bad.

 

Simple examples that could be done.

 

1.

Double the Sector Reinforcement.

Basicly when you Choose a Sector on a Cruiser.

You Currently get 150% on that Sector. And 50% on the other Side.

Instead make it 200% on that Sector and 50% on the other Side.

 

This would at least give you back some actual AA Damage when you Actively Look out for Aircraft.

 

2.

Increase the Instant Damage Burst.

Without Manual AA Skill it should do 9% Damage to A Squadrons Remaining HP.

 

 

3.

Increase Catapult Duration and Effectiveness.

Right now. Fighters are pretty useless.

Their Area of Interception is so small that if the Enemy Ship Triggers it 5km before I arrive at him. I can Fly through it before the Fighters even Activate.

And the Catapult Fighters are so Weak. That even if I trigger them. They will cost me like 3 Aircraft from my Squadron and thats all.

 

So either

A.

You increase the Aggressiveness of these Catapult Fighters.

So that they will Automaticly Intercept any Enemy Bomber Squadron in a 5km Range around your Ship and try to prevent it from Bombing you.

Thus at least making it so that you can make it Cost an Enemy CV if he Attacks you.

 

Or

B.

You increase the Duration of the Catapult Fighters.

So that they Stay above your Ship for 3-5 Minutes instead of ONE minute. And thus actually can be used to Escort you for a bit.

 

and then

C.

You could of course also keep them at 1 Minutes and with a Small Action Radius.

And instead make them into an actual Threat. Giving them Sufficient Ammunition that in the rare case of them being activated by the Enemy. They actually at least Destroying the Enemy Squadron.

And not just killing 3 Aircraft and Retreating....

 

 

4.

CV Fighters are just as useless.

But since they can be used for Scouting they need extra Attention.

 

A.

Remove their Ability to Scout Ships.

Seriously. They should not Spot Ships.

Carrier Fighters did not have the Vision and Equipment to accurately Spot Ships anyways.

At best they should give a Minimap Position of Enemy Ships but not actually Spot it.

Similar to the First 20 Seconds of Radar.

 

B.

Make CV Fighters Homing instead of Guarding.

CV Fighters when Spawned. Should just look for the Next Aircraft within 10km and Attack it.

Not Fly Circles around a Micro Area where they got Spawned....

 

This way at least CVs can provide some Air Cover to Friendly Ships by Spawning Fighters which will then AT LEAST TRY to Intercept Enemy Bombers.

And which will not be placed above an Allied Ship and then ONLY ACTIVATE AFTER THIS SHIP HAS ALREADY BEEN BOMBED.

 

 

 

 

Greetz Sun.

 

 

well the problem with the whole , im bad and getting 60% win rate is that win rate is by its nature zero sum , if you 10 points up the other cv is 10 points down the average is always 50% , you haveing a higher win rate just falls to either carrier imbalance within the class itself, skill or most likely simply standard deviation.

 

the % burst is small but it should be applied several to times. a 3 boat squad will be doing around 12% as the planes come in , another 12 before they get out if they go for a second run , and 24% of the squads HP removed is a pretty significant affect. its simply just not there to allow one boat to shoot down whole squads alone with one press. stick together use it on CD it adds up , plus it then gives a dps boost up to 50% for hte next 10 seconds. 

 

agreed low tier AA needs some attention , but for t6 + CV's there are plenty of ships with high enough continous DPS to put a decent rate of attrition on a squad it does heavily limit the time you can spend on target and applies a cost to doing so.

 

But these two parts of AA defence are not the real killers now. you are completely right these two things will not prevent an attack they simly apply some attrition and give the ships something active to do to help. 

 

in your whole post you dont even mention what causes the real damage. and people rarely do they look at the continous dps of the long range sector and think that proves the AA on that ship is weak.

 

so long story short i think the system is poorly understood, im not saying its perfectly balanced , its clearly not there is some tuning to be done , but people are currently expecting the wrong things to do the wrong jobs.

 

1. i dunno there is room for adjustment dont have the figures to say .

 

2. no. you have to bear in mind its not something thats applied once, it should happen at least twice and up to 6 times per attack , if its only being applied once thats just poor play on the boats part and balancing around poor players is how you make things insanely OP for people with a clue. 

 

3 , yeah ship launched fighters, well all of them really should be "on station" faster and they should be directed to viable targets in range rather than waiting for the circling to give them sight.

b wont help , fighters engage in one attack and they kill one target each then they are done , duration wont help numbers wont help you can have 15 fighters over your ship for the whole game , ill still be able to clear them with a single rocket fighter.

would be better to ask for unspent fighters to stay up.

 

4, nah they have no HP just turn your AA on for a second . and we need some counterplay to all the island hugging HE spammers about.!

but i do agree with the parts of about fighter acquisition speeds. 

[thiextar]

13 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Don't see that as nerf, it's a change. And especially for low dps cruisers it's a buff.

its a nerf in comparison to battleships, so effectively it nerfs cruisers and buffs battleships as dfaa now has a smaller impact on aa power.

[Pikkozoikum]

1 minute ago, thiextar said:

its a nerf in comparison to battleships, so effectively it nerfs cruisers and buffs battleships as dfaa now has a smaller impact on aa power.

Talking about nerf/buff is pretty hard without any data, especially when it relies on the CV player. The new DefAA boosts the flak explosions, before that it was a DPS boosts, which is consistent and easier to figure out.

But on the other hand, it's still a heavy buff for aa-weak cruisers. They can delete now complete squads. Even a good CV player gets now and then hit by a flak explosion and the general opinion of the community is "the whole playerbase consists of potatos". Going with this statement would mean, that Squads will get often hit by Flak, thus it's a buff.

[Pikkozoikum]

23 minutes ago, Molly_Delaney said:

Since the rework I seem to be shooting down more planes; could be more effective AA, more effective use of AA (I've learnt how to use it) or just bad CV players.

 

Much easier to look at planes and press O than whatever it was before.

Press O?

Change it to a Mousebutton! I use mouse button 5

[KillStealBoss]

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

It has basicly Catapulted us back into 0.8.3 with CVs being Semi Godmode and there being 0 Counterplay against CVs.

 

It's true if somebody doesn't use sectors properly. I don't see much rage from the anti CV guys. 

Some super AA ships had been nerfed too much imho (Kidd, DM) 

You can't understand that you're good in CV? Some people are good/great on DD but have average stats on BB. Or those who are great on cruisers but are average on BB and bad (red) on DDs. Do keep in mind the progress. If somebody would reset you stats on BBs and DDs - you would have much better stats on them. 

I know few CV players, they're good in CV , ok on cruisers but bad/trash on DD. Me myself I was really bad on cruisers, just recently I began to play better. In my case making my stats better will take long months of play. 

[Gvozdika]

5 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Talking about nerf/buff is pretty hard without any data, especially when it relies on the CV player. The new DefAA boosts the flak explosions, before that it was a DPS boosts, which is consistent and easier to figure out.

But on the other hand, it's still a heavy buff for aa-weak cruisers. They can delete now complete squads. Even a good CV player gets now and then hit by a flak explosion and the general opinion of the community is "the whole playerbase consists of potatos". Going with this statement would mean, that Squads will get often hit by Flak, thus it's a buff.

Until you realise that WG has actually reduced the flak burst numbers for many ships (in some cases such as for DDs lacking a LR AA component removed them entirely).

 

Your argument falls a bit flat...

 

One example is the Lion - which could previously pump out 12+ flak bursts - now it will put a max of 4. That's around 66% more flak-free sky for even the most ten-thumbed, cross-eyed, clueless CV player to fly around in without getting their squad chunked.

[KillStealBoss]

1 minute ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Press O?

Change it to a Mousebutton! I use mouse button 5

I have it on ~

 

[Sunleader]

7 minutes ago, Padds01 said:

 

well the problem with the whole , im bad and getting 60% win rate is that win rate is by its nature zero sum , if you 10 points up the other cv is 10 points down the average is always 50% , you haveing a higher win rate just falls to either carrier imbalance within the class itself, skill or most likely simply standard deviation.

 

the % burst is small but it should be applied several to many times. a 3 boat suqad will be doing around 12% as the planes come in , another 12 before tehy get out if they go for a second run , and 24% of teh squads HP removed is a pretty significant affect. its simply just not there to allow one boat to shoot down whole squads alone with one press. stick together use it on CD it adds up , plus it then gives a dps boost up to 50% for hte next 10 seconds. 

 

agreed low tier AA needs some attention , but for t6 + CV's there are plenty of ships with high enough continous DPS to put a decent rate of attrition on a squad it does heavily limit the time you can spend on target and applies a cost to doing so.

 

But these two parts of AA defence are not the real killers now. you are completely right these two things will not prevent an attack they simly apply some attrition and give the ships something active to do to help. 

 

in your whole post you dont even mention what causes the real damage. and people rarely do they look at the continous dps of the long range sector and think that proves the AA on that ship is weak.

 

so long story short i think the system is poorly understood, im not saying its perfectly balanced , its clearly not there is some tuning to be done , but people are currently expecting the wrong things to do the wrong jobs.

 

1. i dunno there is room for adjustment dont have the figures to say .

 

2. no. you have to bear in mind its not something thats applied once, it should happen at least twice and up to 6 times per attack , if its only being applied once thats just poor play on teh boats part and balancing around poor players is how you make things insanely OP for people with a clue. 

 

3 , yeah ship launched fighters, well all of them really should be "on station" faster and they should be directed to viable targets in range rather than waiting for the circling to give them sight.

b wont help , fighters engage in one attack and they kill one target each then they are done , duration wont help numbers wont help you can have 15 fighters over your ship for the whole game , ill still be able to clear them with a single rocket fighter.

would be better to ask for unspent fighters to stay up.

 

4, nah they have no HP just turn your AA on for a second . and we need some counterplay to all the island hugging HE spammers about.!

but i do agree with the parts of about fighter acquisition speeds. 

 

1.

I actually Explained that here.

 

34 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

This is not Surprising.

Most People tend to Forget this.

But the more Overpowered a Class is. The harder it becomes for that Class to Win when your not a Good Player.

 

Because the more Overpowered your Class is. The more it is you who is influencing the Outcome of the Match.

Right now CVs of course take this to an Absurd level.

 

If your CV is a Noob. And the Enemy CV is Good.

Then well. Sure the Enemy Ships can still not do much about your CV.

And your CV will happily make alot of damage and maybe even kill someone.

 

But as he doesnt know what targets are importand and as he wont be able to properly support his team.

While the Enemy CV is easily Diminishing your Team in Importand Places.

You will Lose.

 

 

 

This does not happen when your Class is Balanced.

Because when your Class is not Overpowered.

When your a Noob. You will only have a Bad Game yourself.

Your not the Game Deciding Factor. So even if you dont do well while your Counterpart does. Your Team has a Fair Chance of making this Game work.

Because they can outbalance the other guy doing better if they do better than their Counterpart.

 

So when your Class is weaker. You have a much Easier Time to Win when your not a very Good Player.

When your Class is Overpowered. You have a very hard Time Winning when your not a very Good Player.

 

 

2.

This is actually Wrong.

 

You have 3.5% Of the Remaining Squadrons HP as Burst.

So if your a 3 Person Squad. And all use the Burst.

They do about 10% of Damage to the Squadron.

So basicly. With 3 Players using a Manual Skill at your Squadron at Once.

They MIGHT MAYBE Kill 1 Of your Aircraft.

In many cases they will actually just Turn ONE Aircraft Red.

 

Let that sink.

 

3 Players doing the exactly right Reaction of Counterplay against you.

And they can barely Destroy 1 Aircraft of your Squadron if they are Lucky.

 

 

3.

I played and Tested AA all around the Tiers as you see.

And no Sorry.

AA is way too weak all across the Board.

In T4 its non Existent. T4 CVs can basicly do whatever they want without any Resistance.

In T6 the CV can still Comfortably Hunt T8 Ships as he Pleases.

In T8 the only Threat to a CV is Tier 10 Specialized AA Cruisers. And even they can be Bombed only having higher Losses.

In T10 CVs are back to basicly doing whatever they want without any Resistance.

 

 

4.

If your talking about the AA Puffs. They are Weak as well.

And more Importandly they are useless.

Because you can neither Influence them with the Sector nor can you make them Hit better.

They are a 100% background System which is easy to Avoid for any Halfwat Decent CV Player.

And in the rare case they Hit. As Continues DPS are Nerfed into Oblivion their Damage cant be Exploited.

 

So no. This is not the Real Damage.

The Black AA Puffs are basicly RNGesus now and then Granting you a Detonation if your Lucky.

Because the only time they do anything to a Squadron is when you Strike 3-6 Hits with them at once.

 

 

5.

This is also False.

In case you missed it.

All of my Post was Assuming that the other Person is using the Sector System Perfectly.

This never happens of course.

So the Real Situation in the Game is even worse. Because we basicly 10-30% nerfed AA without even the Insane 3.5% Damage Burst.

But thats only making it worse.

Not Better.

 

 

6.

I will not Comment on the your Critics of my Suggestions.

These are just Mini Suggestions to give Ideas.

 

But I will Comment on the last Bit.

 

If your Spotted by Fighters just Turn on AA for a Second.

This Myth has kept itself around and its Complete Bullcrab.

 

Fighters have few HP that is True.

But especially for DDs it will still often take 20-30 Seconds of AA Fire to Kill them.

And this actually makes Fighters worse than a Radar Cruiser.

Because a Radar Cruiser at least can only Radar you for 40 Seconds 20 Seconds of which he is the only one seeing you.

Fighters meanwhile Light you up for the Entire Enemy Team for 20-30 Seconds atop of you having been Spotted by the Bombers before.

Basicly Guaranteeing you to be a Viable Targets for the Entire Enemy Team.

 

Activating AA actually often makes it worse unless your Directly below them.

Because most DD AA is so weak that its actually faster to Shut down AA and Drive 5km away.

 

Pls stop Spreading this Bullcrab myth of Fighters being Instant gone by AA.

This might work when your a Cruiser or BB with Decent AA.

It wont work for DDs.

 

[Pikkozoikum]

9 minutes ago, Gvozdika said:

Your argument falls a bit flat...

Actually not. Feels like you didn't understand my "argument".

I was saying, DefAA comparsion is difficult to make, since it relies on CV player skill.

I was saying, that it's a buff for AA weak cruisers

-> AA weak cruisers don't have much dps, boosting dps of low dps is still low

-> Explosions of AA weak cruisers deletes a squad.

 

 

5 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

I have it on ~ 

~ is on my keyboard one left to the Return-key, but I have to press right Alt for that ;P

[KillStealBoss]

5 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

~ is on my keyboard one left to the Return-key, but I have to press right Alt for that ;P

On my is on left corner just below the Esc. Pretty easy to access.

[Pikkozoikum]

6 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Avoid for any Halfwat Decent CV Player.

That's a big issue. Taking player skill to account. That never works, especially for an argumentation.

While you say decent players can avoid -> most player are not decent. You can turn around the "skill of a player" argument just like you need it

 

"This ship is good" -> "No it's not good, player base is just crap and makes you easy games!"

"This ship is not good, I'm just good"

 

You know what I mean? You can always explain everything with skill

 

Also balancing around skill is not really working, just take League of Legends, sometimes they balance for the whole playerbase, and sometimes just for the esport. If they do so, it often unbalance the other base

[Sunleader]

2 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

That's a big issue. Taking player skill to account. That never works, especially for an argumentation.

While you say decent players can avoid -> most player are not decent. You can turn around the "skill of a player" argument just like you need it

 

"This ship is good" -> "No it's not good, player base is just crap and makes you easy games!"

"This ship is not good, I'm just good"

 

You know what I mean? You can always explain everything with skill

 

Also balancing around skill is not really working, just take League of Legends, sometimes they balance for the whole playerbase, and sometimes just for the esport. If they do so, it often unbalance the other base

 

I know. But that is the Problem. 

 

Right now the only Remaining useful AA System in the Game.

Is a One Sided Skill Check for the CV.

 

It had no Skill Check between Player A and Player B.

Its a Skill Check of Player A vs Fixed Test.

 

 

And as WG does not want Players to be Defeated by this Skill Check vs AI.

They have made this Skill Check so Incredible Easy that you could basicly Remove it from the Game and the only People that would Notice. Would be the bottom 20% of the Playerbase which completely Refuse to Learn even the tiniest thing.

 

[Pikkozoikum]

1 minute ago, Sunleader said:

It had no Skill Check between Player A and Player B.

Its a Skill Check of Player A vs Fixed Test. 

That's why I appreciate the recent changes, where player have to pay attention to the planes and use the AA sector system. I don't wanna say it needs "skill", because this whole game doesn't need "skill". This game needs knowledge and awareness, well if you call that skill, then it needs skill. But that's the point, if a player is not aware or doesn't have know how, then he will perform worse.

 

A better step would be to make long range 100% manual. I would like that, but WG won'T do it, because it would take even more awareness from the player. And to be honest, people would still complain about it, saying AA is to weak or to strong.

 

So there is a kind of "skill check" or better "Awareness and Know-how"-check. I noticed a lot, that player don't use the sector system

 

What I also really like is the change of overlapping sectos. Before that, the safest zone was often above a Ship, so just F-out. Now it's the most dangerous zone, so the CV has to fly out.

 

7 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

And as WG does not want Players to be Defeated by this Skill Check vs AI.

They have made this Skill Check so Incredible Easy that you could basicly Remove it from the Game and the only People that would Notice. Would be the bottom 20% of the Playerbase which completely Refuse to Learn even the tiniest thing.

I really don't see an issue, that Flak explosion are a Skill Check for CVs. It's not the only damage source, it's only a part and even good players get hit by AA explosion now and then.

 

Just imagine the AA Flak will become manual. Player would maybe able to deny every strike of the player, just because he is skilled. He would be invincble against CVs. That also terrible to balance. So I don't see it as that bad, and it least it's a ingame mechanic, that is not just a random dice-rolling damage aura like in pre-Rework

[Padds01]

15 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

 

 

2.

This is actually Wrong.

 

You have 3.5% Of the Remaining Squadrons HP as Burst.

So if your a 3 Person Squad. And all use the Burst.

They do about 10% of Damage to the Squadron.

So basicly. With 3 Players using a Manual Skill at your Squadron at Once.

They MIGHT MAYBE Kill 1 Of your Aircraft.

In many cases they will actually just Turn ONE Aircraft Red.

 

Let that sink.

 

3 Players doing the exactly right Reaction of Counterplay against you.

And they can barely Destroy 1 Aircraft of your Squadron if they are Lucky.

 

 

3.

I played and Tested AA all around the Tiers as you see.

And no Sorry.

AA is way too weak all across the Board.

In T4 its non Existent. T4 CVs can basicly do whatever they want without any Resistance.

In T6 the CV can still Comfortably Hunt T8 Ships as he Pleases.

In T8 the only Threat to a CV is Tier 10 Specialized AA Cruisers. And even they can be Bombed only having higher Losses.

In T10 CVs are back to basicly doing whatever they want without any Resistance.

 

 

4.

If your talking about the AA Puffs. They are Weak as well.

And more Importandly they are useless.

Because you can neither Influence them with the Sector nor can you make them Hit better.

They are a 100% background System which is easy to Avoid for any Halfwat Decent CV Player.

And in the rare case they Hit. As Continues DPS are Nerfed into Oblivion their Damage cant be Exploited.

 

So no. This is not the Real Damage.

The Black AA Puffs are basicly RNGesus now and then Granting you a Detonation if your Lucky.

Because the only time they do anything to a Squadron is when you Strike 3-6 Hits with them at once.

 

 

5.

This is also False.

In case you missed it.

All of my Post was Assuming that the other Person is using the Sector System Perfectly.

This never happens of course.

So the Real Situation in the Game is even worse. Because we basicly 10-30% nerfed AA without even the Insane 3.5% Damage Burst.

But thats only making it worse.

Not Better.

 

 

6.

I will not Comment on the your Critics of my Suggestions.

These are just Mini Suggestions to give Ideas.

 

But I will Comment on the last Bit.

 

If your Spotted by Fighters just Turn on AA for a Second.

This Myth has kept itself around and its Complete Bullcrab.

 

Fighters have few HP that is True.

But especially for DDs it will still often take 20-30 Seconds of AA Fire to Kill them.

And this actually makes Fighters worse than a Radar Cruiser.

Because a Radar Cruiser at least can only Radar you for 40 Seconds 20 Seconds of which he is the only one seeing you.

Fighters meanwhile Light you up for the Entire Enemy Team for 20-30 Seconds atop of you having been Spotted by the Bombers before.

Basicly Guaranteeing you to be a Viable Targets for the Entire Enemy Team.

 

Activating AA actually often makes it worse unless your Directly below them.

Because most DD AA is so weak that its actually faster to Shut down AA and Drive 5km away.

 

Pls stop Spreading this Bullcrab myth of Fighters being Instant gone by AA.

This might work when your a Cruiser or BB with Decent AA.

It wont work for DDs.

 

2. i didnt know it was remaining not total , but it doesnt change that it does its jub and what its meant to do. i can understand if you want it to do more.

 

3. well my experience is radically different , i may just be that much worse but im gonna need a replay to believe

"In T6 the CV can still Comfortably Hunt T8 Ships as he Pleases.

In T8 the only Threat to a CV is Tier 10 Specialized AA Cruisers."

 

so lets see a t6 cruiser comfortably hunting any US t8 BB or CA pick any you want, hell i be genorous and add the t7 atlanta as option.

 

4, again my in game experience just doesnt line up with what your saying , they are what does the real damage. and there are quite a few situations where they simply can not be avoided, particulaly if two ships are providing each other cross cover.  when teh flak gets saturated it starts automatically hitting the planes , its possible for the right builds ont eh right ships to shred entire squads on contact before the ship and its flak is even revealed to the CV player. you might just be doing it wrong?

 

5. there was a 5?

 

which DD's take 30 seconds to kill a  fighter wing?

 

i dont have much DD experience , but my haida needs fighters to be within 2.8KM to spot it which puts it 3 km within long AA range  and will happily killa fighter wing before they even deploy and start spotting.

 

so im not sure what scenaria your basing any of this in. 

 

interesting how your first post was a written as  CV player confessing they OP and has turned into a DD player complaining they are. 

[invicta2012]

The AA changes are a step in the right direction. AA is easier to use and has at least some element of player control. It's clear that they've realised that you can't have low AA ships being completely defenceless, and now they're not. Now they need to restore the power of high AA ships (to an extent) and re-introduce the panic/dispersion debuff so that smaller ships with fewer AA guns do at least get a survivability benefit, even if they can't stop plane squads getting through.  We've been round this so many times it's unbelievable.