When in doubt, blame BBs

[Myrmix]

First of all, this shall not be a rage-thread, more an explanation of observations.

 

I've returned after ~1,5 year break to the game and I'm somehow not surprised that everything is still the same. Russians are OP (wasn't a Kutuzov enough?), epicenter somehow is still a thing, the prices in the premium shop are ridiculous and "BBs suck".

I myself think of me as an average battleship player and usually try to lead/support flanks and not (yet) crawl around the mapborder.

But more than often I hear complaints about battleships beeing to passive, when a game goes wonky.

 

Here is my two grains of salt to the already brine topic: Battleships are the most team-dependent class in WoWs

 

First of all you are spotted 90% of the time, making it really hard to "poof" from view like cruisers and destroyers can.

You can tank damage to a certain point, but are overwhelmed easily by 2-4 decent ships who know at what end their cannons go boom.

Since you have 30 sec reload, you have a very limited dps (don't forget to sacrifice to rngesus) and have to rely on the stupidity of the enemy to turn full broadside (I nearly avoided to mention RN-HE and russian blanced BBs who might be exceptions).

So while you angle there and beg that at least one of your cruisers starts firing back at the enemy and hope the enemy DD doesn't come around the corner (because your own ate torps half a minute ago),

 

I'm more and more wondering, if it's really a battleship's fault, if it prefers the safety of distance, where it has at least a chance to maneuver to avoid shells and can hope to see less torps swimming towards him, because the DDs are dead and cruisers kiting a BB somewhere.

Has 3 years of cruisers prefering to burn BBs instead of focussing DDs (and WG heavily enforcing this gameplay) lead to this problem, or is it just "BBs are stupid"?

 

I'm not trying to put blame on every other class, I'm just asking you to think if you have done everything right, before you start flaming your battleships in chat.

[FishDogFoodShack]

It is something of an old stereotype yes, and perhaps outdated now.

The fact is that by the time a half-decent player dies, the terrible BB players lulling about are usually the last ones around and therefore, the only ones who are available to be scrutinized by your average player who doesn't keep track of his teammates while he is alive. Most of us here on the forums know better - because in general the terrible players we are talking about here don't care about any communities - and can catch when a cruiser or destroyer is being bind bogglingly worthless, but we're in the minority. All the goddawful DD and CA/CL players die long before the BBs do and saved themselves from the ire of mr and mrs average player in doing so.

 

I'm a p mixed player between cruisers and BBs and I personally  find DDs to be the class that is most frequently played poorly (though the class has an admittedly higher skill floor, I still see worse dd play in general) Personally I prefer having bad BBs on a team than bad DDs. At least a bad BB will distract other players and soak up some damage. The shima who got torpedoed in his own smoke after 3 minutes of playing, or the salem who thinks hes playing WoT behind an island? not as much.

[Gvozdika]

We need equal opportunities I agree. I'm pleased to be leading the way in this respect.

 

I will blame EVERYONE irrespective of what ship they're using. Everyone is incompetent, nobody can be trusted. You're all trying to undo all that hard work to win this game single-handedly! Aside from me of course - I'm never the one at fault....*

 

*Terms and Conditions Apply.

The personal actions leading to my premature and humiliating demise seemed like a jolly good idea at the time after drinking something that tasted so good I needed a few more cans/bottles/caskets of the stuff. That's the general excuse for any wayward stupidity undertaken in a WOWS match by myself or div-mates associated with me.

[MerchantPrince]

Il y a 6 minutes, FishDogFoodShack a dit :

It is something of an old stereotype yes, and perhaps outdated now.

The fact is that by the time a half-decent player dies, the terrible BB players lulling about are usually the last ones around and therefore, the only ones who are available to be scrutinized by your average player who doesn't keep track of his teammates while he is alive. Most of us here on the forums know better - because in general the terrible players we are talking about here don't care about any communities - and can catch when a cruiser or destroyer is being bind bogglingly worthless, but we're in the minority. All the goddawful DD and CA/CL players die long before the BBs do and saved themselves from the ire of mr and mrs average player in doing so.

 

I'm a p mixed player between cruisers and BBs and I personally  find DDs to be the class that is most frequently played poorly (though the class has an admittedly higher skill floor, I still see worse dd play in general) Personally I prefer having bad BBs on a team than bad DDs. At least a bad BB will distract other players and soak up some damage. The shima who got torpedoed in his own smoke after 3 minutes of playing, or the salem who thinks hes playing WoT behind an island? not as much.

Very debatable. The bad BB that runs doesn't soak any damage until he starts doing so, much later in the game. At that point, DDs are likely dead because cruisers ran, or died. If they aren't, they were prevented from contributing, most likely.

In my opinion, the problem is the reward system which should just drop the damage rewarding it does.
Bad players can do huge damage and still  be more than irrelevant: detrimental. Rewarding damage pushes bad play... Think of say, a Conqueror or Hood, for example.

[illy]

when BBs on your team camp behind islands, won't tank any damage, won't target cruisers broadsiding, and don't generally contribute and then come out swinging when the the only thing stopping a humiliating loss is divine intervention i always blame the CV

[MerchantPrince]

Il y a 1 minute, Gvozdika a dit :

We need equal opportunities I agree. I'm pleased to be leading the way in this respect.

 

I will blame EVERYONE irrespective of what ship they're using. Everyone is incompetent, nobody can be trusted. You're all trying to undo all that hard work to win this game single-handedly! Aside from me of course - I'm never the one at fault....*

 

*Terms and Conditions Apply.

The personal actions leading to my premature and humiliating demise seemed like a jolly good idea at the time after drinking something that tasted so good I needed a few more cans/bottles/caskets of the stuff. That's the general excuse for any wayward stupidity undertaken in a WOWS match by myself or div-mates associated with me.

I'm often a terrible player. What is ashaming is the fact that many of the games I played terribly, I actually am still not the worst player in damage, and I know I dd not hide, run, rush stupidly, or badly misposition. I just did not have enough skill to not make a mistake once the terrible plays of my friendlies made mistakes deadly, or at best I could not find a winning move, even though it might have existed.
Blaming others isn't always right, but not blaming others is also a mistake...

[DFens_666]

The problem is, most BB players seem to die inside if they take damage. If everything died, and only 4 BBs are alive on one side, then its almost guaranteed that the BBs played like crap. When i play BB, its the class in which i might go to a position in which i probably will not come out alive, but if we get the win then its no problem. Those risk taking moves dont fit Cruisers and even less so DDs.

That doesnt mean, other classes arent infested with idiots. Multiple DDs died within 3 minutes? Not a rare sight. Cruisers broadsiding yoloing a cap? Also happens, but less often as it seems, idiots prefer DDs or BBs.

 

And ofc you got armchair admirals thinking they are the best players while they dont even have 50% WR.... you cant take them seriously.

[Bear__Necessities]

BB players on average have the worst map awareness and decision making over the long game. So many times I’ve torp’d straight sailing BB’s to death. Or been able to make the BB who isolated themselves regret clicking battle when I’m in a CV or Cruiser. 

 

So many games now it’s full HP BB’s left having clearly contributed nothing. Yes there are a LOT of DD idiots who yolo, there are cruisers who insists on showing broadside to EVERYTHING but a BB player who knows what to do can turn a game. There just aren’t many around. There is a reputation for a reason.

[MerchantPrince]

Il y a 35 minutes, DFens_666 a dit :

The problem is, most BB players seem to die inside if they take damage. If everything died, and only 4 BBs are alive on one side, then its almost guaranteed that the BBs played like crap. When i play BB, its the class in which i might go to a position in which i probably will not come out alive, but if we get the win then its no problem. Those risk taking moves dont fit Cruisers and even less so DDs.

That doesnt mean, other classes arent infested with idiots. Multiple DDs died within 3 minutes? Not a rare sight. Cruisers broadsiding yoloing a cap? Also happens, but less often as it seems, idiots prefer DDs or BBs.

 

And ofc you got armchair admirals thinking they are the best players while they dont even have 50% WR.... you cant take them seriously.

Imho, cruisers are the hardest ships to play, if nothing else because they're, mostly, the easiest kills if they make any mistake, and because they're designed to be the high-dps ships, as well as the dedicated DD hunters. Kill the cruisers, win the game is actually decent battle doctrine. Besides, WR is unlikely to mean much unless, maybe, you have 20k battles.
Too many players seem to farm the ships they're good at, possibly using setups they earned in easier ways (eg, grinding IJN destroyers after the nerf with 1pt captains will mathematically reduce your WR by at least 10% compared to players who grinded them before the nerf and before captains, and now run 19pt captains in their ships...) Uneven playing fields prevent those kind of statements, unless of course strawmen arguments are aesthetically pleasing to you ;)

[MerchantPrince]

Il y a 14 minutes, Bear_Necessities a dit :

BB players on average have the worst map awareness and decision making over the long game. So many times I’ve titled straight sailing BB’s to death. Or been able to make the BB who isolated themselves regret clicking battle when I’m in a CV or Cruiser. 

 

So many games now it’s full HP BB’s left having clearly contributed nothing.

I think another issue is luck, though. I've often turned out to be the only battleship trying to hold a point while Ds ran and one lone cruiser helped out. One good set of hits might have sunk, or at least made broadsiding enemies wary, but all shots going wide all game is not a rare occurrence (and then again, some games you get citadels aplenty... why?). Your positioning skills don't matter if you can't hit for no real reason, and if 9 or 10 players run away to die without even getting a cap, you just end up with yet another loss. If they do cap and win on the other side, you might end up with a win, but it's equally likely you see your sinking wreck overtaken by live ships captained by absolute potatoes that should have died to perfectly aimed shells that just seemed to love avoiding the enemy ship. I mean, OK, at 20km it's unsuprising, but some games Iowa gets her shells in front, at the back, off the bow and off the prow of your target at 12km all game. The average should be right where you planned, but yet you get 1k damage, or none. I currently believe it's not abnormal and the difference between a good game and a bad one is time (the longer you play, the better the chance your accurate shots will hit), compounded with another factor. I can't say if it's hour of play (evening and weekend players seem to give me terrible games, morning games midweek seem way better, but it might well be how awake and concentrated I am). It might even be linked to a server-side seed, because it *really* feels that when I disconnect, go rant around and come back, I suddenyl get much better, more accurate and capable of so much better positioning ;)

In any case, we often forget it's just a game and we get a new ship every game once it sinks, if it even does ;)

[DFens_666]

9 minutes ago, MerchantPrince said:

Besides, WR is unlikely to mean much unless, maybe, you have 20k battles.
Too many players seem to farm the ships they're good at, possibly using setups they earned in easier ways (eg, grinding IJN destroyers after the nerf with 1pt captains will mathematically reduce your WR by at least 10% compared to players who grinded them before the nerf and before captains, and now run 19pt captains in their ships...) Uneven playing fields prevent those kind of statements, unless of course strawmen arguments are aesthetically pleasing to you ;) 

 

Most of the time, those players already disqualify themselves by the things they say

Also, You dont need that many battles to get an accurate measure for WR. Alltho i do agree, that some people probably got their WR from playing "strong" ships back in the day. We cant tell when someone played those ships... But you can look at how people progress over time, so that atleast tells you if they are getting better (or not).

[MerchantPrince]

Il y a 1 minute, DFens_666 a dit :

 

Most of the time, those players already disqualify themselves by the things they say

Also, You dont need that many battles to get an accurate measure for WR. Alltho i do agree, that some people probably got their WR from playing "strong" ships back in the day. We cant tell when someone played those ships... But you can look at how people progress over time, so that atleast tells you if they are getting better (or not).

I'm not even sure of that. I have pretty much linear improvement at everything (WR, damage, PR...) I did not bother checking exactly the rate, but I wouldn't be too surprised if all it demonstrated was I have better ships and stronger captain.

I do feel, though, that the stronger ships aren't necessarily the ones I like best. I like a Russian BB as much as anyone, British DDs can be hilarious, but I still trust my Shimakaze for the sheer fun of "hello, here are multiple drops you can't avoid... and I timed them so you can only flood to death now", even though spotting, defending caps and all likely will have taken most of my active time. Sadly, I feel most times I can do such a thing, someone will decide to focus the BB I torped and either kill it, force it to turn away/slow down and avoid my torps, or reduce it to very low heatlh instead of shooting the cruisers I've spotted (even more likely in Asashio which can't even keep torps in reserve for cruiser-suppression).

In the end, WR doesn't matter. Not ending every game feeling either letdown by your ship or your team does matter (and I'm not even counting the times I do finish a game winning it, having been utterly useless all game through stupid choices, bad shooting and terrible moves, which can really be annoying, due to proving just how I should have played, eg, like the people who did win the game...).

[Ze_Reckless]

4 hours ago, Myrmix said:

"BBs suck"

Correction: Every class sucks. The problem isn't so much the classes, it's the piss-poor player base. It got even worse than it was when you left 1.5 years ago. The only reason why you might feel BBs suck more than others is because BBs allow these players to live longer than they deserve so you see them more often.

CVs are even worse offenders, it is almost impossible to kill them unless they suicide. But unlike BBs they don't do any harm to the enemy, they don't get any 'you tried-citadels' when they miss. They just miss.

[Verblonde]

4 hours ago, Myrmix said:

When in doubt, blame BBs

<nods sagely> Wise words...

[Deckeru_Maiku]

It's not the BBs that are the problem... it's the tons of BaBBies steering them... there's so many of them, that you only rarely find a decent BB player.

[That_Other_Nid]

5 hours ago, Myrmix said:

Since you have 30 sec reload, you have a very limited dps (don't forget to sacrifice to rngesus) and have to rely on the stupidity of the enemy to turn full broadside (I nearly avoided to mention RN-HE and russian blanced BBs who might be exceptions).

Yeah, this is why I don't play BBs. The slow reload and the constant spotting breeds a defensive mindset. I tend to see them as a herd of bison in most games. Clumped together and usually hiding because they need to break line of sight. 

 

Taking more risks is really warranted though because killing the enemy cruisers will open up the game so much. I don't know how many times I've been in a DD fighting a cruiser in a cap while our BBs are in hiding. There are so many BBs that losing a couple early is no loss. 

[mtm78]

13 hours ago, Myrmix said:

I'm not trying to put blame on every other class, I'm just asking you to think if you have done everything right, before you start flaming your battleships in chat.

 

CV in game -> blame them

No CV in game -> it's BB's fault!

No CV in game but you're playing BB = team's fault ( doesn't matter who exactly ). 

edit: wait till sub's are in testing, EVERYTHING will be their fault then don't worry. 

 

Sorry that's just how things go.

 

13 hours ago, Myrmix said:

Battleships are the most team-dependent class in WoWs

 

And proper positioning in your battleship is what makes you team do all that stuff for you, if you really need them to.

 

13 hours ago, Myrmix said:

I myself think of me as an average battleship player

Ow... I see what you did there 

 

[Bear__Necessities]

So, any able to come up with a defence of these BB morons??

 

The Izumo on my team, the T9 BB scored less than 300 base exp..... just to put it into perspective. I scored 1270 on a loss in a DD with an Enterprise on the enemy team and still managed to gun an Akizuki down on my own and solo cap. 

 

[CptBarney]

29 minutes ago, Bear_Necessities said:

So, any able to come up with a defence of these BB morons??

 

The Izumo on my team, the T9 BB scored less than 300 base exp..... just to put it into perspective. I scored 1270 on a loss in a DD with an Enterprise on the enemy team and still managed to gun an Akizuki down on my own and solo cap. 

 

Love how the colorado is the closest to anything, in a ship thats slow as hell and has poor armour (with nagato being no better half the time).

 

Guess those other ships got a personal mission to find the sacred ointment or divine hyper glue.

[Bear__Necessities]

10 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

Love how the colorado is the closest to anything, in a ship thats slow as hell and has poor armour (with nagato being no better half the time).

 

Guess those other ships got a personal mission to find the sacred ointment or divine hyper glue.

Colorado was the best player in the team, beat me by 100 points or so. Says it all really.

[CptBarney]

27 minutes ago, Bear_Necessities said:

Colorado was the best player in the team, beat me by 100 points or so. Says it all really.

Wargaming should give him a sped boostingz. For good behaviour.

 

Although its sad when you see bottom ships doing far better than higher tier ships.

 

Like watching a bloody car crash in slow motion.

[DFens_666]

1 minute ago, CptBarney said:

Although its sad when you see bottom ships doing far better than higher tier ships.

 

Lowtier ships get more XP for fighting higher tier ones. So basicly its "easier" to be top XP earner when bottom tier. A Toptier ship getting almost as much XP as a bottom tier one usually means, the toptier ship did more than the other one.

[CptBarney]

2 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Lowtier ships get more XP for fighting higher tier ones. So basicly its "easier" to be top XP earner when bottom tier. A Toptier ship getting almost as much XP as a bottom tier one usually means, the toptier ship did more than the other one.

I mean't literally doing better rather than just overall xp, and your top tiers are so useless they might as well be afk.

 

Happens sometimes on world of tanks, even possible to carry games like this because the enemy is just as shite half the time.

[Butterdoll]

Absolutely yes.

when in doubt and when without doubt.

I just get reported by a BBaby who got shredded by my Nurnberg (I torped him three times, the first wave missed, after I changed sides I send two more waves).

Apparently I was cheating.

Not only BB players suck big time they are clueless about what they are facing, or doing.

Not all, but the large majority of them.

Good BB players are like unicorns, rare or are a myth. 

hey, Sinop suck my...

 

[Profilus]

Im thinking the problem is that most BB players measure a success with their HP. If they finish battle with full HP then it was battle of a century for them.