Does Detonation Mechanic actually have any Use in this Game aside from annoying People ?

[Migantium_Mashum]

8 hours ago, mil71 said:

Literally just got detonated in my Yamato, survived enough damage to heal through 4 damage controls.

Finally start engaging again and then a CV fires three torps at me.

All hit the torpedo belt for 5k dmg and then the last one detonates me.

Brilliant mechanic.

Gotta reward them zero skill CV's more WG.

 

 

Then my team lost because they only had one BB left when we was winning.

If you are detonated how can you survive?

 

Have I missed something here...

[Lootboxer]

1 hour ago, Migantium_Mashum said:

If you are detonated how can you survive?

 

Have I missed something here...

He survived the roughest time and and then he was detonated by CVs torpedo as a reward as soon as he healed back. What a shame....

[Miessa3]

5 hours ago, MAD_3R_Marauder said:

So, from reading through the thread, it seems like one has a detonation in about 1% of games.

 

And a mechanic that comes only into effect every 100th match is completely irrelevant and could be removed without any impact whatsoever.

The percentage is screwed.

Because people don't realize that they can't use their alltime total matches. Some games they went with the signal flag or played operations or maybe even a cv. The actual percentage is way higher especially if you include that DDs detonate far more often than BBs.

Still would be a good riddance ofc.

 

The realistic argument most are using makes no sense. The flag that removes the feature ain't realistic either. Also if we go that way WG could also include random engine failures or permanent broken engines after a citadell, or permanently proken rudder after a torpedo hit like on Bismark. "Fun eh?" said noone ever. Maybe we do the rudder one and to balance it out (since DDs get punished the most by detonations already and REALLY need their rudder) make it so that the captain skill "Last Stand" reduces the chance to 0%. Then we could argue to all the BBs complaining (oh and there will be tears trust me) "just take Last stand duh".

Sadly WG doesn't have the balls to do this so just remove the damn detos already!

[anonym_MfZ6T7iwWpUC]

I rarely get detonated, but I did receive three yesterday. One each in my Gascogne and Kii, plus one in my Normandie.

 

The Normandie detonation was from three quarters health by a single torpedo. I avoided three of the four torps, but the last one hit right under my forward turret. Having had the Normandie only a day or two I have no idea if this is a particular vulnerability spot in the ship or not. I will be extra vigilant from now on.

[CptBarney]

3 hours ago, Miessa3 said:

The percentage is screwed.

Because people don't realize that they can't use their alltime total matches. Some games they went with the signal flag or played operations or maybe even a cv. The actual percentage is way higher especially if you include that DDs detonate far more often than BBs.

Still would be a good riddance ofc.

 

The realistic argument most are using makes no sense. The flag that removes the feature ain't realistic either. Also if we go that way WG could also include random engine failures or permanent broken engines after a citadell, or permanently proken rudder after a torpedo hit like on Bismark. "Fun eh?" said noone ever. Maybe we do the rudder one and to balance it out (since DDs get punished the most by detonations already and REALLY need their rudder) make it so that the captain skill "Last Stand" reduces the chance to 0%. Then we could argue to all the BBs complaining (oh and there will be tears trust me) "just take Last stand duh".

Sadly WG doesn't have the balls to do this so just remove the damn detos already!

wish they would get rid of it, not like theres a special animation and effects plus sound design (never been wargamings strong suit) to make it even semi worthwhile.

 

plus it takes up a flag slot, just a pointless mechanic.

 

'bUt reALisM' in an arcade game with halloween and sci-fi skins yeah ok. I remember the heavy cruiser 'fossil' destroying over 15 ships at the battle of easter island, fav story from grandpa!

[veslingr]

On 8/29/2019 at 3:13 PM, Sunleader said:

I have been Detonated rather often Lately.

And I really have to ask this. But does this Mechanic actually serve any Purpose aside from being Frustrating and Annoying ?

 

I mean no Offense to anyone. its not like its happening so often that I really care so much.

But not caring about it and it actually having any meaningful purpose in the Game is two different things.

 

So does this mechanic actually have any reason to exist beyond being annoying and frustrating and thus giving WG an option to Sell a Signal which just removes the Mechanic from the Game for you ????

Or is this Mechanic really just a sort of Middle Finger from WG to anyone who is too new to the Game as to Afford the Signals for Credits and who wont throw Gold at WG to buy Signals to make this go away ???

I think crew of Hood (real life) very well know that detonation could and did happened....and i think WG gave them in this game just to add this kind "oh [edited]" moments in this game that actuallyy did and could happened in real war.

[Sunleader]

3 minutes ago, veslingr said:

I think crew of Hood (real life) very well know that detonation could and did happened....and i think WG gave them in this game just to add this kind "oh [edited]" moments in this game that actuallyy did and could happened in real war.

 

Oh Yeah. If just the Hood would have had a Signal Flag to Remove this Stupid Mechanic of the War.

 

 

Mate no Offense. But this Mechanic is just there to Annoy you and make you use Signals....

[veslingr]

3 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

Oh Yeah. If just the Hood would have had a Signal Flag to Remove this Stupid Mechanic of the War.

 

 

Mate no Offense. But this Mechanic is just there to Annoy you and make you use Signals....

i hope no sane person use this signal in randoms.....detonation is as rendom as disconect you get...to me it is 1 per 100 games or even more....you take it as it is. SOmetime you go boom and go crazy, other time you detonate full HP BBs and get 100.000 k dmg and you giggle. :)

[Sunleader]

9 minutes ago, veslingr said:

i hope no sane person use this signal in randoms.....detonation is as rendom as disconect you get...to me it is 1 per 100 games or even more....you take it as it is. SOmetime you go boom and go crazy, other time you detonate full HP BBs and get 100.000 k dmg and you giggle. :)

 

I never Giggle at that. It means I cant put the Result in Peoples Face because its not my Skill which gave me that Kill but Dumb Luck and a Stupid RNG Mechanic.

And yes I rage if it happens to me. Because its an RNG Mechanic thats Stupid and not serving any Purpose aside from Annoying you and making you use Signals.

[howardxu_23]

I went boom in my Yamato yesterday.

ate 2 gearing torps, both in the bow at the start of the game. First torp put me below deto hp threshold, 2nd set off my ammo.

 

loled and said that I have been penetrated by too much freedom.

 

that being said, would agree to a complete deto removal or make it more predictable to trigger in certain situations.

 

however I’m fine with keeping it in with one modification: if you get fun and engaging by RNG, service costs are immediately voided.

[albin322]

On 8/29/2019 at 3:13 PM, Sunleader said:

I have been Detonated rather often Lately.

And I really have to ask this. But does this Mechanic actually serve any Purpose aside from being Frustrating and Annoying ?

 

I mean no Offense to anyone. its not like its happening so often that I really care so much.

But not caring about it and it actually having any meaningful purpose in the Game is two different things.

 

So does this mechanic actually have any reason to exist beyond being annoying and frustrating and thus giving WG an option to Sell a Signal which just removes the Mechanic from the Game for you ????

Or is this Mechanic really just a sort of Middle Finger from WG to anyone who is too new to the Game as to Afford the Signals for Credits and who wont throw Gold at WG to buy Signals to make this go away ???

 

we need it for roleplay so that bismarck can detonate the hood !!!!

[veslingr]

3 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

I never Giggle at that. It means I cant put the Result in Peoples Face because its not my Skill which gave me that Kill but Dumb Luck and a Stupid RNG Mechanic.

And yes I rage if it happens to me. Because its an RNG Mechanic thats Stupid and not serving any Purpose aside from Annoying you and making you use Signals.

there is not purpose for that mechanism except mimicking real life scenario.

 

it could happened in rel life so they putt into game.

 

it is here form the start of the game and i have feeling it will not be removed.

[Sunleader]

4 minutes ago, veslingr said:

there is not purpose for that mechanism except mimicking real life scenario.

 

it could happened in rel life so they putt into game.

 

it is here form the start of the game and i have feeling it will not be removed.

 

Again Mate.

Then Remove the Signal Flag which Removes it so it at least Actually affects everyone.

 

Right now its just one more Pay to Win Option to take if you dont want to be Killed by RNGesus.

[Danucu_Tigger]

I have no problem with being detonated (I can't even remember the last time it happened!) but I will report any teammate who gets detonated in competitive games because he is to cheap to use the Signal Flag.

Detonations happened in real life and one might argue, in view of what happened at Jutland, that the flag may even be realistic: it shows that the crew applies anti-flash procedures.

 

I think there was at least a case in which a magazine detonated and the ship survived: the forward magazine in  New Orleans CA detonated following a torpedo hit in the battle of Tassafaronga and the bow and  no. 1 turret detached from the ship, but the cruiser survived. Now model this mechanic into the game! 

 

PS: it seems that every other Supercontainer I get comes with 100 Detonation Removal Flags, so I have plenty. 

PPS: I agree with the idea of making the ships a little more "historically accurate": Hood and Arizona increased detonation chance, Bismarck and Prince of Wales increased chance of rudder being disabled by airdropped torpedoes, Jean Bart taking increased damage from US BBs.... And all those Japanese cruisers lost because of hits on torpedo launchers? That should be implemented too!  

[Ruth_clifton]

AP   BOMBS  R    BACK

[ThePurpleSmurf]

On 8/29/2019 at 4:15 PM, Episparh said:

Before that you could detonate a 100% HP BB with single shot from a puny dd gun.

This was never possible. Cruisers and BBs can only detonate from citadel hit. Torpedo hits count as citadel hits, which is the only way to detonate a BB as a DD. DD detonations are a different story because they have no citadel.

[Sunleader]

4 minutes ago, ThePurpleSmurf said:

This was never possible. Cruisers and BBs can only detonate from citadel hit. Torpedo hits count as citadel hits, which is the only way to detonate a BB as a DD. DD detonations are a different story because they have no citadel.

 

1,

No. Detonations happen if the Magazines of your Main Turrets are Penetrated.

Thats also why DDs which do not have Citadels. Can be Detonated extremely easily.

While a CV which Possesses no Main Turrets. Cannot Detonate even tough he has a Citadel.

 

2.

Actually this could happen in the past. And has happened. Indeed back in the Day. There was no Threshold for a Minimum HP Loss before you could Detonate.

The Reason why Torpedoes are often the ones causing a Detonation. Is not due to Hitting the Citadel. But because they have high enough Damage that you can go below the Minimum Threshold in 1 Hit.

[mtm78]

8 hours ago, Kenjiro_ said:

If you sail a dd and don't fly the detonation signal, you pretty much deserve it for being that cheap... 

 

But but if I never detonate, I have to rely on containers to give me them flags.... 

 

I'm playing some DD's without now, I only have about 70 detonation flags left I would like to keep those for when they really matter ( not in randoms, I can probably take being detonated once every X games without my overall performance tanking to much ). 

[MAD_3R_Marauder]

5 hours ago, Miessa3 said:

The percentage is screwed.

Because people don't realize that they can't use their alltime total matches. Some games they went with the signal flag or played operations or maybe even a cv. The actual percentage is way higher especially if you include that DDs detonate far more often than BBs.

 

Not so sure about this.

I have 1700 battles and never, ever used the flag, but do have the magazine mod on some (but far from all) ships.

I have 16 "Detonated" achievements.

 

Seems to fit the 1 in 100 thingy.

[mil71]

8 hours ago, Migantium_Mashum said:

If you are detonated how can you survive?

 

Have I missed something here...

I tanked effectively 2 million damage and took something like 50% odd from fires and the rest from actual gun fire.

Healed up to somewhat 80% and then two torpedoes hit my belt for 5k damage total and then the third torpedo from the volley that the CV was controlling detonated me.

How do a share a replay?

 

As soon as I detonated people on my team was like "Whelp Wargaming didn't want us to win" because with me still alive I was going to make us win because the enemies BB's was low.

[Procrastes]

The Why and What-for of the Detonation Mechanic - Game Theory at War?

 

I can't say that I know what reasons Wargaming may have for introducing and keeping the 'Detonation Mechanic' in the game. But if would make a guess, I'd say that one reason might be to introduce an element of randomness with the potential to turn a tactical situation around completely. No matter how well you plan and coordinate an attack, Lady Luck (or Mistress Misfortune, depending on whom you ask) can intervene and say, "Nope - back to port you go!" We've all been there, looking with some confusion at the smoking wreck that was lately an incoming enemy battleship at full health, or our own well-deployed vessel taken too early from this world.

 

Random elements like these, when introduced into games, typically have the effect of making the gameplay less predictable. This can be a source for better and more varied games, improving the tickling sense of tension and in some cases the replay value.* Or, it can be a source for shrieking, vein-throbbing frustration and acts of brutal violence against innocent household appliances. For most of us, the effects of the Detonation Mechanic probably range somewhere between the two.

 

Another effect of the Detonation Mechanic is that it is, in a way, something of an equalizer between players of different skill levels. It doesn't matter how long you've played the game or how good you are - when the Grim Detonator presseth the Button, you must go Boom.** Statistically and over time, this will benefit the lesser skilled player (who would have been most likely to lose the engagement if no Detonation had occurred).

 

Furthermore, the Detonation Mechanic could also be said to introduce an element of realism into World of Warships. Randomness is a recurring and often vicious part of real life warfare, with a lot of military planning going into efforts to minimize its impact. Even more to the point, warships suddenly exploding at the slightest provocation was a bit of a problem during both world wars, reputedly causing Admiral David Beatty to observe that "There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today" after two of his battlecruisers exploded during the battle of Jutland in 1916. This having been said, World of Warships is not a simulation as such, and I rather doubt that the Detonation Mechanic has been put into the game in order to increase its sense of reality.

 

So, back to the 'game theory' theory. Does it work? Is the Detonation Mechanic good for the game, in that it brings variety and thus improves dynamic?

 

I really can't say. What I can say, is that I don't think it has very much impact on the game as it is - mainly because it occurs so rarely. I've played this game for more than five years now and I've been Detonated less than a dozen times. Or if it has been more times than that, it doesn't feel that way, which amounts to the same thing as game theory goes.*** I can just barely remember the last time it happened in a battle. Whatever the real numbers may say, I've found Detonations to be a rare event with very little real effect on the overall gameplay. The rarity is of course bound to be overshadowed by the sense of instant and complete injustice when it does happen, but that is only to be expected.*****

 

Personally, I don't have a problem with having the Detonation Mechanic in the game. But I wouldn't miss it if it went away, either.

 

A nice and well-conceived thread, @Sunleader!

 

 

* Replay value is typically more of a concern when we are talking about old-school tabletop games, such as Chess (high replay value) or Monopoly (low replay value), than in an intrinsically and almost inifinitely varied online PvP game such as World of Warships.

** That was, indeed, a very bad aphorism. I apologize.

*** Then again, I have anti-Detonation flags on all my destroyers, which are the ships that are most prone to be Detonated to begin with.****

**** No, I don't believe that Wargaming keeps the Detonation Mechanic in place in order to sell more flags.

***** Interestingly enough, this sense of injustice is often experienced by both parties involved. Winning by Detonation can be felt to be a bit of a "dirty" way to win. I've seen people apologize in chat after having Detonated an enemy, and having their apology graciously accepted.

[ThePurpleSmurf]

5 hours ago, Sunleader said:

 

1,

No. Detonations happen if the Magazines of your Main Turrets are Penetrated.

Thats also why DDs which do not have Citadels. Can be Detonated extremely easily.

While a CV which Possesses no Main Turrets. Cannot Detonate even tough he has a Citadel.

 

2.

Actually this could happen in the past. And has happened. Indeed back in the Day. There was no Threshold for a Minimum HP Loss before you could Detonate.

The Reason why Torpedoes are often the ones causing a Detonation. Is not due to Hitting the Citadel. But because they have high enough Damage that you can go below the Minimum Threshold in 1 Hit.

1. Exactly and based on the storage of the magazines CA/CL and BB can only detonate with citadel hits. The HP and were you hit it does and did not matter if you are in a DD. Even if you can citadel some cruiser as DD, it never happened that a shell hit detonated the cruiser. I've never seen it, never heard about it, never experienced it and afaik this is what WG said. Perhaps we should get a look at their how it works series if there is a detonation video. And yes, the detonation mechanic was changed, but this does not mean that a DD could ever detonate a CA/CL or BB with main guns.

2. It never happened that a BB could detonate by a DD main gun no matter where and how you hit it. Maybe your back in the day is pre-alpha but for the last 3+ years it was and is only possible to detonate a BB or CA/CL with a torpedo hit. No DD main gun is capable to penetrate the armor of a CA/CL or BB to hit the magazine that causes a detonation.

[_DemonGuard_]

11 hours ago, Sunleader said:

Detonations happen if the Magazines of your Main Turrets are Penetrated.

 

5 hours ago, ThePurpleSmurf said:

Exactly and based on the storage of the magazines CA/CL and BB can only detonate with citadel hits.

That's not how it works. You don't have to penetrate the armor to detonate a ship. What you need is the explosion cube (it's not a sphere) of the HE-shell to reach the magazine. That's the reason even cruisers can detonate DDs without hitting them. There is no check if there is enough armor between the point of impact and the magazine to stop the shock wave or splinters. The reason DDs can't detonate BBs this way is because of the small explosion cube of small caliber shells that can't reach the magazines.

BBs might be completely immune to these "near hit detonations" if their magazines have 76+ mm armor, but that would probably need someone from the dev team to answer, because the magazines aren't modeled in the ingame armor viewer.

[Miessa3]

17 hours ago, MAD_3R_Marauder said:

Not so sure about this.

I have 1700 battles and never, ever used the flag, but do have the magazine mod on some (but far from all) ships.

I have 16 "Detonated" achievements.

 

Seems to fit the 1 in 100 thingy.

Not so sure.

Renember Cruisers and especially BBs are less prone to detonations.

If you played 1000 matches with DDs only and not flag and module i would estimate more than 10 detonations.

Doesn't matter though. The whole concept is flawed as it adds nothing of value to the game for anyone beyond the 50% WR mark.

[LordTareq]

It’s a fun random element. I like it.