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Tempest_Poet

Where do Secondary Shells get aimed at?

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Hiho @all,

 

just an easy simple question i hope someone has a definite answer where exactly the secondary armament aims at enemy ships. My Reason for asking this is quite obvious. If i consider a secondary build, one commander skill comes into mind: Manual secondary. Lets assume i wanna use it on my GK. So Manual Secondary would theoretically improve damage one would think. But a) is less dispersion less parts hit -> less fires probably and b) if the secondary always aims at the same spot (which i assume it does) and that part is not the superstructure but for example somewhere on the broadside, it will actually lessen the damage even more against quite a few ships which have more than 32mm Armor on said part. That would result in having less damage with better dispersion.

 

So if anyone can clarify if Manual secondary shoots at a certain point of a selected ship  and in case it does, where exactly it aims at, would be awesome. Thanks in advance.

 

 

P.s.: Another bad side effect of Manual Secondary is ofc, that ur secondaries, even  while having selected a valid current target, won't shoot on targets on for example the other side of ur ship. Granted, that shouldnt happen often, but it will sometimes, inevitably.

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Quality Poster, In AlfaTesters
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Your assumptions are correct. Secondaries aim at the centermost point of the ship at the waterline.

 

image.thumb.png.5979b9de798f33c4ff11d67fc3c0df6c.png 

 

Shells will usually hit the middle of the armor belt on the way to this point when firing at a broadside target.

 

This means that at close range against targets that are broadside a number of shells can shatter harmlessly against the belt and depending on dispersion not many may land on the bow/stern areas. Against BBs the belt, uppercasemate and deck can be thick enough to repel secondary penetrations and you might only be able to start one fire (assuming fire prevention being used) unless the target turns towards you and presents more bow/stern towards the middle of where your secondaries aim.

 

However, for the example of ships like GK, the dispersion bonus of ManSecs is quite necessary to get any sort of reasonable performance from the guns when a combination of AFT, SBM1 and MYS flag extends GKs secondary range to 11.6km. Good luck focusing them effectively on anything without ManSec.

 

Although, unless something has changed that I wasn't aware of, even without ManSec designating a target will still improve secondary dispersion by 5% for any secondaries that fire at that target.

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Hi all,

 

5 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Dead center on the armor belt.

 

About 1+ years ago I suggested that user has ability to chose where the secondaries aim (for example: "Main belt" / "Superstructure") in a manner similar to how we chose the torpedo spread pattern...

 

 

Leo "Apolo11"

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As said above, on the centre. There was a situation where the ship was 2/3 behind an island and just 1/3 was shown, the secondaries didn't shoot. :Smile_sceptic::Smile_sceptic:

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1 minute ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

Hi all,

 

 

About 1+ years ago I suggested that user has ability to chose where the secondaries aim (for example: "Main belt" / "Superstructure") in a manner similar to how we chose the torpedo spread pattern...

 

 

Leo "Apolo11"

This should of been implemented at the start too be honest, Guess wargaming is more interested in pumping out premium ships now and pointless time gated temp content.

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Beta Tester
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Secondary Dispersion is like, i believe 188m without Manuals (took the value from fitting tool). So its not that bad at 11ish km imho. Especially if you add in the other drawbacks, like less fire setup chances, not bein able to fire at multiple targets at once etc. And the 4 points you could invest in Fire PRevention or CE. But u will lose the heavy nuke potential against dd's, hich is not to underestimate i guess.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

As said above, on the centre. There was a situation where the ship was 2/3 behind an island and just 1/3 was shown, the secondaries didn't shoot. :Smile_sceptic::Smile_sceptic:

That actually may have had other reasons. To start firing, your ship needs to see the highest part of the enemy (or have another ship spot it for you). As long as you do, you see the ship and i assume, your secondaries do also (in terms of "i can fire"). Just had a game with tirpitz for example, where my secondaries shot over islands on a mogami at 8ish km, which i couldnt hit with my mains and did only see by spotting from other sources. I can't remember if i had my spotter up, so that you yourself has to see the target or not.

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20 minutes ago, Astolfo_Is_My_Waifu said:

Although, unless something has changed that I wasn't aware of, even without ManSec designating a target will still improve secondary dispersion by 5% for any secondaries that fire at that target.

Oh ? Do you know of a source for that ?

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13 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

As said above, on the centre. There was a situation where the ship was 2/3 behind an island and just 1/3 was shown, the secondaries didn't shoot. :Smile_sceptic::Smile_sceptic:

 

 

My own experience is that there is a much more extensive bug. Many times, I've noticed that secondaries do not start shooting at a target in close proximity in open water. Often it seems you have to use the main armament on that target in order to "switch on" the secondaries.

 

I find that this "bug" occurs with both automatic (standard) secondaries and manual control.

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21 minutes ago, cracktrackflak said:

 

 

My own experience is that there is a much more extensive bug. Many times, I've noticed that secondaries do not start shooting at a target in close proximity in open water. Often it seems you have to use the main armament on that target in order to "switch on" the secondaries.

 

I find that this "bug" occurs with both automatic (standard) secondaries and manual control.

I always target the enemy ship Ctrl and left click on mouse on the enemy. 

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24 minutes ago, AmiralPotato said:

Oh ? Do you know of a source for that ?

Few CCs said that in the past. 

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51 minutes ago, AmiralPotato said:

Oh ? Do you know of a source for that ?

While I do not believe I could find it now, it was a Sub Octavian reddit Q&A if I remember correctly.

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1 hour ago, MacArthur92 said:

I always target the enemy ship Ctrl and left click on mouse on the enemy. 

 

I do too, but quite often nothing happens - even if the target is in range and unobstructed.

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13 minutes ago, cracktrackflak said:

 

I do too, but quite often nothing happens - even if the target is in range and unobstructed.

Venom actually taught me this trick and now I love my Alsace,but do secondaries fire HE or AP?

 

I thought they fired HE, in that case shouldn't the be aimed at the superstructure?

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Just now, NoobySkooby said:

Venom actually taught me this trick and now I love my Alsace,but do secondaries fire HE or AP?

 

I thought they fired HE, in that case shouldn't the be aimed at the superstructure?

HE i think.

 

You would think so, if we had competent devs and peeps actually testing their own sodding game, but apperantly not.

 

 

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1 hour ago, NoobySkooby said:

Venom actually taught me this trick and now I love my Alsace,but do secondaries fire HE or AP?

 

I thought they fired HE, in that case shouldn't the be aimed at the superstructure?

 

Secondaries used to be mixed (HE and AP), so it kind of made sense for secondaries to target the center of the ship, as this could result in citadel hits.

 

Some time ago, all secondaries were changed to HE, the aiming point didn't change though (afaik).

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Hi all,

 

5 hours ago, Astolfo_Is_My_Waifu said:

Your assumptions are correct. Secondaries aim at the centermost point of the ship at the waterline.

 

image.thumb.png.5979b9de798f33c4ff11d67fc3c0df6c.png 

 

Shells will usually hit the middle of the armor belt on the way to this point when firing at a broadside target.

 

This means that at close range against targets that are broadside a number of shells can shatter harmlessly against the belt and depending on dispersion not many may land on the bow/stern areas. Against BBs the belt, uppercasemate and deck can be thick enough to repel secondary penetrations and you might only be able to start one fire (assuming fire prevention being used) unless the target turns towards you and presents more bow/stern towards the middle of where your secondaries aim.

 

However, for the example of ships like GK, the dispersion bonus of ManSecs is quite necessary to get any sort of reasonable performance from the guns when a combination of AFT, SBM1 and MYS flag extends GKs secondary range to 11.6km. Good luck focusing them effectively on anything without ManSec.

 

Although, unless something has changed that I wasn't aware of, even without ManSec designating a target will still improve secondary dispersion by 5% for any secondaries that fire at that target.

 

The WG @Sub_Octavian just started new Q&A on Reddit:

 

 

 

I posted my idea for secondaries... if you guys like it please UpVote so he can see it and answer it... :Smile_hiding:

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

 

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Hi all,

 

@Sub_Octavian answered - not good news I am afraid:

 

Quote

Well, this is not necessarily bad - as it works well against DD and also not really changing anything on long ranges. Although, of course, I do see some room for improvement of secondaries.

 

Changing this node on hundreds of ships in the game, not even mentioning the mechanics of choosing the aiming point looks like very low return of investment though. I am not 100% sure, but we may address secondaries in very distant future, maybe even globally to leverage on this gameplay. However, right now, we have CV follow ups, we have huge submarines odyssey to begin soon, so realistically, I don't see any significant changes coming this year or even early 2020. Maybe some minor tweaks, but no promises. Sorry :-)

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

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I let em fire randomly in my Riche since I'm a proponent of free will, sometimes they do good but most times they just create a fuzz and get dds anxious, which is prob useful most of the times.

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So cv follow ups im guessing are, new lines, german and russian cv's. Click noice *crowd murmurs*

 

Submarines get a few nerfs then fat chonkeh buffs for balans *crowd gets eggy*

 

and secondaries are going to remain badz *crowd riots, wargaming server hamster warp into another star system*

 

WG on balans for game:

 

435122911_animeversion(improved).png.02003491ac17584e026fe1c15be5a2e0.png

 

 

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In a side note, I wonder if the trade for focused sec. is worth, since you practically loose half of your power - fire on most cases. Remember that tricky dd who sneak on your back when are all focused in a brawl with a bb, at short range ?

Well, he will be happy to laugh at you since your sec.s will not engage him even if he try to board your ship !

I found myself so many times engaged in brawls 1 vs 1 and a enemy cruiser/dd try to sneak behind me or on the other side and engage me in a crossfire - and sometimes ( I am an old dude :Smile_veryhappy:...) I not even realize he is there if not by seeing my sec.s engaging him and chopping his HP pool. If I will have used focused sec.s for sure he would have bitten me much harder.

 

 

 

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This would be so easy to fix. Simply raise the point of aim to deck level. Then you got 50/50 armor belt hits and superstructure hits. More hits on close range that do dmg, and less hits on range that do dmg, would encourage brawling.

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