Radio Location skill ("RPF") - On what DD are you using this skill?

[affie]

I´ve been watching a couple of videos now from different CCs and see different styles for the french destroyers as well as upcoming dutch destroyer Friesland, some use the radio location skill, others does not.

 

I use the skill on my Kagero, Fletcher/Benham, Gearing/Sims and Z-52, for different reasons, either for DD hunting (Gearing/Z-52), to avoid the enemy (Kagero), or just to send torpedoes in general directions (Fletcher/Benham). Strangely enough I don´t plan to use it on all my DDs, for example my Lightning where I consider stacking 4 pcs of 3 point skills instead since I feel the Lightning are of the design that she is sneaky enough to get the overhand on anything stronger but strong enough to knife fight anything more sneaky.

 

The reason this question surfaced was me closing in on 14 pts on my french commander as well as the release of the Friesland where I will use my Blyskawica captain (14 pts) and we are having a free respec at the moment, shall I swap the BFT for RPF for the Blyskawica/Friesland or will IFHE, AFT or multiple lower point skills be more valuable for it maybe. 

 

So back to the headline, what ships are you using Radio Location skill on and why?

[Soft_Kitty_Warm_Kitty]

I use RPF on all my DD's that have a 19 point captain (Shima, Daring, Gearing, Jutland my Fav DD, and the YY until I sold her after the Nerf bat, I now have a 19 pointer on my Lo Yang), the skill has saved my life on a few occasions and also helps in the final stages of a close game if the enemy is unspotted, you at least have an idea of the location rather than sailing aimlessly in the direction of the last sighting.

 

Its also useful for an early torp launch in the game, perhaps going into or near a cap with limited space for entry, you can surprise a few DD's that way.

 

A very useful skill and perhaps underused by many who consider the 4 points more useful elsewhere?

 

Regards SKWK  

[Rhineheart_Thor]

Here is a thing.

 

Using RPF on a stealth torpedo boat can be " counter productive " because you warn enemy ships you are there. Thus say some " smarty pants " BB Captain sees " they are detected ", They " May " " Can " " DO! " take  ~~~

Anti Torpedo Counter Measures.

 

Before the salt, think about how many times you have doged out a Battle Boat, with the perfect Torpedo shot, and " Bugger Me " the BB Blighter, suddenly " Changes Course " 

 

 very frustrating, Dont Ya Think ma Lads?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Soft_Kitty_Warm_Kitty]

1 hour ago, SmashUrr said:

Here is a thing.

 

Using RPF on a stealth torpedo boat can be " counter productive " because you warn enemy ships you are there. Thus say some " smarty pants " BB Captain sees " they are detected ", They " May " " Can " " DO! " take  ~~~

Anti Torpedo Counter Measures.

 

Before the salt, think about how many times you have doged out a Battle Boat, with the perfect Torpedo shot, and " Bugger Me " the BB Blighter, suddenly " Changes Course " 

 

 very frustrating, Dont Ya Think ma Lads?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

About the same number of times I have watched the BB Blighters sail straight into a nice spread of 3 to 5 torps 

[Rhineheart_Thor]

4 minutes ago, Soft_Kitty_Warm_Kitty said:

About the same number of times I have watched the BB Blighters sail straight into a nice spread of 3 to 5 torps 

I stopped playing my shimmer with rpf because I was only getting decent DMP numbers by spamming 20km water mines, I ended up pink more than, I liked most of the time LOL

 

[affie]

I did a try in my Blyskawica today and swapped BFT for RPF and guess I will keep it and pick BFT as a 17 point skill rounding it up with AR since it is situational and those final 2 points costs lover 500K experience. 

 

My point of view is that RPF is best suited for the destroyer-hunter and the weaker torpedo-boats where a surprise attack can cost you dearly due to your slow and/or insufficient guns. 

 

On ships like Fletcher/Benham/Lightning I might get away with BFT instead of RPF since they are hybrids which can defend themselves in a knife fight but I am still experimenting with the few high skilled  captains I have. 

 

2 hours ago, Soft_Kitty_Warm_Kitty said:

I use RPF on all my DD's that have a 19 point captain (Shima, Daring, Gearing, Jutland my Fav DD, and the YY until I sold her after the Nerf bat

How do your Daring/Jutland build look, du you manage to get CE, RPF and IFHE or skipping out on the last one? 

[belalugosisdead]

RPF is a very strong Skill. I use it on lot of DDs. You are able to seek or avoid enemy DDs, launch RPF Torps in early game... avoid enemy Torps sometimes because better idea of positions. You can deny  flanking from Red DDs and so on.  

 

I dont use RPF on my russian DDs, the French DDs so far and T9/10 Brit.  

[Soft_Kitty_Warm_Kitty]

43 minutes ago, affie said:

I did a try in my Blyskawica today and swapped BFT for RPF and guess I will keep it and pick BFT as a 17 point skill rounding it up with AR since it is situational and those final 2 points costs lover 500K experience. 

 

My point of view is that RPF is best suited for the destroyer-hunter and the weaker torpedo-boats where a surprise attack can cost you dearly due to your slow and/or insufficient guns. 

 

On ships like Fletcher/Benham/Lightning I might get away with BFT instead of RPF since they are hybrids which can defend themselves in a knife fight but I am still experimenting with the few high skilled  captains I have. 

 

How do your Daring/Jutland build look, du you manage to get CE, RPF and IFHE or skipping out on the last one? 

 

I am currently running PT, PM (1pt each), LS (2pt), Sup (3pt), IFHE, RPF & CE (4pts each), I tried running without IFHE and went with SE (3pts) and dropped PM (1pt) for AR (2pts) but I felt that trying to use SAP a lot of the time meant I wasn't dealing consistent damage, plus a lot of good players know to angle against the good SAP (its is very good against unangled targets) which means you need HE & IFHE to deal with those targets that you can't penetrate without IFHE.  

 

I find my choice the most comfortable for me, though I know there's a lot who will disagree and many of them with a lot more experience/knowledge than me but hey its a game that keeps me amused and off the streets (what self respecting 55 year old would hang around on the street corners anyway lolol) 

 

Regards SKWK 

[HMS_Kilinowski]

I used RPF only defensively on IJN-DDs. Though it gave me an overall idea where the threat was coming from, that never helped me much. Unless the islands determine the location, you are still left guessing the distance. The crucial dilemma of managing that distance remains. Do you turn away at a speed that allows you to detect while staying undetected? Do you await your opponent to torp? Basically I still get spotted at some point. I can blind torp, but then I not only give away my location, I also signal I am now out of torps for a certain time and dedicated DD hunters know they can hit the speed boost and close in on me safely.

 

So now I reskilled my IJN-torpboat more towards a gunboat built to test it. I find it's a huge tactical disadvantage having to run all the time, where you could make a stand otherwise, neutralize the threat and live a happy torpboat life without your nemesis and with AR triggered.

 

Offensively I don't use it at all. Ships like Kitakaze need IFHE and there is no room for RPF. Other gunboats imo need all firepower they can get to compete with that. As a gunboat I mostly manage my distance to enemy cruisers, so if I run into a DD accidentally, I can gun him down. RPF may be a choice for me, but only as the final skill on 19 pt captains of certain gun boats.

On 8/28/2019 at 12:09 PM, Soft_Kitty_Warm_Kitty said:

About the same number of times I have watched the BB Blighters sail straight into a nice spread of 3 to 5 torps 

That is not a counter-argument. You basically argue some (bad) players ignore being located and get hit by torps. Other (good) players will evade torps even when not located, just because they sense the threat. The people @SmashUrr talks about are the "medium-skilled", which is obvious and a valid point. He is talking about the players that will react to being located, by changing speed and course repeatedly, whereas they would have felt safe if not located. I experienced that, too. Even when a BB is detected and reacts to the presence of a DD, he usually doesn't know the direction the threat is coming from. A correction of speed or course may even increase the number of hits. With RPF you sometimes give a good idea about the direction and what might have been several hits, ends up in one hit on the nose if at all.

There is a lot of speculation and gut feeling involved, so I don't claim anybody can reliably say how many torps would have hit/missed, had you skilled into or foregone RPF.

[Soft_Kitty_Warm_Kitty]

2 minutes ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

I used RPF only defensively on IJN-DDs. Though it gave me an overall idea where the threat was coming from, that never helped me much. Unless the islands determine the location, you are still left guessing the distance. The crucial dilemma of managing that distance remains. Do you turn away at a speed that allows you to detect while staying undetected? Do you await your opponent to torp? Basically I still get spotted at some point. I can blind torp, but then I not only give away my location, I also signal I am now out of torps for a certain time and dedicated DD hunters know they can hit the speed boost and close in on me safely.

 

So now I reskilled my IJN-torpboat more towards a gunboat built to test it. I find it's a huge tactical disadvantage having to run all the time, where you could make a stand otherwise, neutralize the threat and live a happy torpboat life without your nemesis and with AR triggered.

 

Offensively I don't use it at all. Ships like Kitakaze need IFHE and there is no room for RPF. Other gunboats imo need all firepower they can get to compete with that. As a gunboat I mostly manage my distance to enemy cruisers, so if I run into a DD accidentally, I can gun him down. RPF may be a choice for me, but only as the final skill on 19 pt captains of certain gun boats.

That is not a counter-argument. You basically argue some (bad) playerse ignore being located and get hit by torps. Other (good) players will evade torps even when not located, just because they sense the threat. The people @SmashUrr talks about are the "medium-skilled", which is obvious and a valid point. He is talking about the players that will react to being located, by changing speed and course repeatedly, whereas they would have felt safe if not located. I experienced that, too. Even when a BB is detected and reacts to the presence of a DD, he usually doesn't know the direction the threat is coming from. A correction of speed or course may even increase the number of hits. With RPF you sometimes give a good idea about the direction and what might have been several hits, ends up in one hit on the nose if at all.

There is a lot of speculation and gut feeling involved, so I don't claim anybody can reliably say how many torps would have hit/missed, had you skilled into or foregone RPF.

It may not be a counter-argument exactly but the original post left a fair degree of latitude to any answer, because as you say at the end "There is a lot of speculation and gut feeling involved, so I don't claim anybody can reliably say how many torps would have hit/missed, had you skilled into or foregone RPF". 

My answer may have been more tongue in cheek than a rebuttal of the argument but there's no stats that we can use to prove the argument one way or another, it all comes down to your perception of what happened in various matches, its all up in the air mate.

 

Regards and Happy Battles

SKWK 

[HMS_Kilinowski]

25 minutes ago, Soft_Kitty_Warm_Kitty said:

It may not be a counter-argument exactly but the original post left a fair degree of latitude to any answer, because as you say at the end "There is a lot of speculation and gut feeling involved, so I don't claim anybody can reliably say how many torps would have hit/missed, had you skilled into or foregone RPF". 

My answer may have been more tongue in cheek than a rebuttal of the argument but there's no stats that we can use to prove the argument one way or another, it all comes down to your perception of what happened in various matches, its all up in the air mate.

 

Regards and Happy Battles

SKWK 

Maybe I misunderstand you, but don't you say in four lines the exact same thing I said in my last line?

 

To be edited:

[Soft_Kitty_Warm_Kitty]

24 minutes ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

Maybe I misunderstand you, but don't you say in four lines the exact same thing I said in my last line?

 

To be edited:

Perhaps I am being thick mate but not sure what you mean, best if we drop the back and forth and agree to disagree or perhaps I have agreed with you and got confused.

 

I think at the end of the day for my playstyle (not a particular line) that I prefer to have RPF than not have it.  Think I have nailed it this time and no confusion.  and apologies for any confusion I have caused. 

 

Regards SKWK  

[HMS_Kilinowski]

21 hours ago, Soft_Kitty_Warm_Kitty said:

Perhaps I am being thick mate but not sure what you mean, best if we drop the back and forth and agree to disagree or perhaps I have agreed with you and got confused.

 

I think at the end of the day for my playstyle (not a particular line) that I prefer to have RPF than not have it.  Think I have nailed it this time and no confusion.  and apologies for any confusion I have caused. 

 

Regards SKWK  

I think we agree to disagree with an understanding our perceptions leave a lot of uncertainty to never be sure who is right.

 

Let me give you a painful recent example.

A few days ago I was in one of these typical "nobody talks" Ranked battles on the Sleeping Giants map, southern spawn, going up the 8-line. I was in a Chung-Mu (noRPF) and had lost quite a bit of HP against a Kitakaze (with RPF). I knew I was on lower health, but I was shielding off an Alaska in the 9 line very close to me, We had pretty much control over that side of the map apart from that Kita lurking around, but I knew the Alaska guns would finish him if we would spot each other, so we pushed south towards the cap. On the other side of the map our teams had a fierce battle over at A-cap, though it looked like our team would prevail. Now I was around G8, while the Alaska was at H9. The Kita was last spotted around the group of islands between B-cap and C-cap. Suddenly I was no longer located. I wrote that in chat. My assumption was the Kita knew he could not hold off a radar cruiser led by a DD and would get radared and destroyed, so he moved off to A to turn things around for his team there.

Now, had our Alaska had any functioning brain, he would have wondered why he suddenly was located just as I typed I was not. If he didn't have any brain but was at least a guy who talks much, he would have let me know, he was located. Either possibility would have alarmed either of us to the fact the Kitakaze had not moved off but snuck down the 10-line into the flank and into radar range of the Alaska. Being located by the Kita was a huge giveaway of his position. It was just that our Alaska was neither smart nor communicative, so at some point six tiny red triangles showed up all along his broadside, the Kita rushed me full speed, almost killed me and I had to smoke and run and give up C-cap to survive this unexpected turn of tables.

 

That example shows a couple of insights. If I had skilled into RPF, I would have seen that move. But then again, would the Kita have made it, knowing he was located? Would our Alaska even have reacted to a warning or be hit either way? Would we ever have expected the Kita to flank if he didn't have RPF and we would not have got the information RPF had switched to the Alaska? But also, would my DD have survived that final attack, had I taken RPF instead of a gunboat-survival-build? Irrespective of RPF it shows something that needs no question mark: If people bothered to use chat, RPF would definitely be less effective.

 

There is so many ifs, I am just not sure if giving up other skills is worth it. On usual gunboat builds you will likely have basic skills PM, LS, SE and CE. Then you likely skill into AR and BFT for max raw dpm. That leaves you with 4 points, given you have a 19-pointer. There is room for one more skill. So you likely choose between RPF, SI or DE, maybe even AFT or TAE.

Now IJN-gunboats and RN-DDs still are far better with IFHE. USN-DDs tend to run out of smoke with only 3 loads, so SI is tempting, not to speak of the new french DDs (reload booster) and german DDs (smoke and hydro). PA-DDs need TAE, even more so now that reload was nerfed. IJN-torpboats will benefit from RPF but at the cost of gunpower, promoting their tendency to run from threats instead of punching them on the nose. Sometimes all that stands between you and some juicy straight-lining BBs is one DD pushing you away. RPF helped me often to see what was coming, where BFT or DE would have helped me stop it.

 

RPF anyway would be much more useful if it was implemented in the information the team gets, If, like with radar, there was a message or better an indicator showing the whole team that info, instead of depending on players talking. I sometimes get the feeling some players have RPF and don't even share the info. At least on the receiving end I seem to be a rare breed of players bothering to type "RPFed" or "located" in chat.

[Loopyrobot]

True, Rpf has some downsides, i leave Rpf on my Fletcher and an old z46 Captain for fun. All other DDs i choose more boatspecific Skills and try to learn more mapawareness. If i could respec the skills more often, i would try Rpf som times. I tried it on Kagero too, good information, but the downside is, i could never hit a detected BB anymore, therefore 80% of the fun is deleted.

[Altsak]

RPF enables you to be more aggressive by telling where the enemy is not. It is a very powerfull tool. Using it on all of my DDs and on many cruisers aswell.

[affie]

On 8/28/2019 at 2:24 PM, HMS_Kilinowski said:

Offensively I don't use it at all. Ships like Kitakaze need IFHE and there is no room for RPF.

I agree, don't use it on my Akizuki ue to the need of IFHE as well as I spec it not as a DD-hunter but more of a HE spamming Mini-taur.

On 8/28/2019 at 4:17 PM, HMS_Kilinowski said:

But also, would my DD have survived that final attack, had I taken RPF instead of a gunboat-survival-build?

Questuon is if you could have been prepared on that final charge and avoid the engagement from happening at all or maybe been getting more damage put due to that extra knowledge. 

21 hours ago, Loopyrobot said:

I tried it on Kagero too, good information, but the downside is, i could never hit a detected BB anymore, therefore 80% of the fun is deleted.

Detected or located, I'm guessing you mean the latter. Strangely I haven't seen more or less torpedo hits before/after RPF on my torpedo builds. As mentioned before, any decent BB starts to manoeuvring as spoonbill as they are detected, but I guess you mean that the located marker tells the BB a DD is close rather than random ship on the map? 

[HMS_Kilinowski]

9 hours ago, affie said:

Questuon is if you could have been prepared on that final charge and avoid the engagement from happening at all or maybe been getting more damage put due to that extra knowledge. 

As I said, one can never be sure. Maybe it's based on player quality or getting used to RPF. There are certainly players who can judge the distance to a located enemy quite correctly. I still struggle to do that. The whole point is to either stay out of detection or to torp an unsuspecting opponent. So both depend on you knowing if the enemy is close enough to spot you or to be torped.

RPF is giving you only one piece of that information needed to actually "locate" a ship, only the direction.

That may work well on the Shima, where you can flood an angle with 15 torps. Other ships can only put 6 - 10 torps in the water, which reduces the chance to hit.

9 hours ago, affie said:

Detected or located, I'm guessing you mean the latter. Strangely I haven't seen more or less torpedo hits before/after RPF on my torpedo builds. As mentioned before, any decent BB starts to manoeuvring as spoonbill as they are detected, but I guess you mean that the located marker tells the BB a DD is close rather than random ship on the map? 

Yes, I mean located. Being detected itself is not alarming as BBs are most of the time. Even being located is not alarming. It is the information deducted from that, that may or may not alarm you. Being detected, when the minimap shows all non-DDs far away, being located, when the distance to another target suggests, something sneaks up on you. Being located often gives away an information on the location, identity and intentions of an opponent. If I am located and I see on the enemy team there is a Benham and a Kitakaze unaccounted for, I will suspect being located by a Benham, cause the Kita will likely have skilled into IFHE, while the Benham may use a 19-pointer from the Gearing.

 

The problem with enemies being located is that they will alter their behavior, even start chasing you, while you are in a flanking position and get cornered. I think the key is patience. You need to wait until you again can predict his movments or he starts feeling comfortable again as nothing happens.

[affie]

2 hours ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

The problem with enemies being located is that they will alter their behavior, even start chasing you, while you are in a flanking position and get cornered.

That is when you torp the second ship which is not detected or put torps where you would have turned if you where the BB, one set on predictor and one in case of turning in or out. 

[HMS_Kilinowski]

9 minutes ago, affie said:

That is when you torp the second ship which is not detected or put torps where you would have turned if you where the BB, one set on predictor and one in case of turning in or out. 

You meant located, not detected, right?

That again depends on the situation. If the range of my torps exceeds the located ship enough so they can reach a ship behind it or that ship behind is moving towards me I can torp that ship. Doing so I would render the information, that the first ship is located, useless, as they no longer can "triangulate" my position. It still will alert the nearest ship, even more so, when torps strike the neighbouring ship. Infact I probably have a better chance of hitting this neighbor than the located ship.

I can still torp the located ship itself, but if it was unsuspecting, I have a chance to maneuver into a broadside position, whereas even guessing a turn right gives you one or two hits. I don't go to the trouble of sneaking up on a target to get one hit. I want to get his broadside and torp it from as close as possible. That Kitakaze in my earlier example got all 6 torps on the unsuspecting Alaska. Had he alarmed the player, he would have got one hit, damaged but not killed it while being radared and subsequently destroyed.

Sneaking up on targets I want to leave as few traces as possible. I have seen battles, where a torpboat wasn't spotted for the entire battle. He was there, taking caps, every now and then a dev strike on some ship, but never a last known position. Terrific play, I say.

[HaachamaShipping]

Basically would take it on any DD that isn't Russian or IJN alt-line.

 

For Friesland... I'd take IFHE, because with no torps, you have to rely on guns to kill things and even if it'll only be 25 mm pen, penning T8/9 cruisers helps a lot, I'd assume.

[affie]

On 8/30/2019 at 10:13 PM, Cagliostro_chan said:

Basically would take it on any DD that isn't Russian or IJN alt-line.

 

For Friesland... I'd take IFHE, because with no torps, you have to rely on guns to kill things and even if it'll only be 25 mm pen, penning T8/9 cruisers helps a lot, I'd assume.

I can't see the point of taking IFHE on Friesland actually, just aim for the superstructure and you will get the damage any way. 

 

I do however find myself questioning my choice of going SE-TAE-BFT-DE on my Lightning since the TEA bonus still leaves it at rather high 90 s and the DE is dependant on RNG. Maybe I shall spec into RPF on this one anyway for the information since I use it on most of my other knifefighters (Friesland, Gearing, Sims, Fletcher). 

[ollonborre]

Thing about RPF for me is that I often don't want to give up some of those 3 point skills. SE is basically mandatory, and so is BFT or TAE. And depending on the DD you might want SI or DE (DE to replace BFT). So then comes the 4 pointers. CE is a given on virtually anything that is not Russian, and now you have to choose. 

 

Daring Harugumo/Kitakaze benefits greatly from IFHE so that is your points filled. Fletcher/Gearing can put RPF to great use but you have to give up either offensive performance or extra consumables (depending on playstyle this might not be easy). My Z-52 could be respecced into RPF but again I don't really wanna give up SI, SE or BFT, it benefits from all of them.

 

RPF is a great skill, but for me I feel that unless a ship can spare the points for it (which is why I only really have it on the Mino and Wooster) I don't spec into it as I can get more out of a ship focusing on either offense or other utility in random battles. In CB or Ranked info is king so there I often respecc offcourse.

[Hanse77SWE]

Don't have RPF on any of my captains. Still have a 59.33% WR in DDs.

[Black_Sheep1]

I do not usw it on any of my DD. This skill should have never put in the game in the first place. It is more or less a kind of passive Radar with no cd with less information then radar. So in my opinion it gives you informations you should not have. Not that radar was a bad idea in the first place also.

 

Basically it is one of the things WG implemented to shorten the skillgap between players and make WoWs less challenging.

 

So it serves basically the same purpose as any other changes that made it easier to counter things.

[Bowmangr]

I'm mainly playing DDs. The only ships I think RPF is absolutely must-have are the French DDs at the moment. The skill complements the French DD playstyle amazingly well.

On all other DDs, I almost always have 1-2 skills that are more useful to spend those 4 points on.

I think I could play a Gearing build with the Fletcher torps + torp reload skills utilizing RPF too but that's it.