Map Awareness, Do You Have It?

[Bear__Necessities]

So, I've been noticing a lot of games lately where there is little to no map awareness by teams, my own and enemy. Especially this morning with 2 games, scarily similar in a row. So, I wanted to make a thread highlighting how devastating ignoring the map and enemy team can be, how to avoid that happening and how to take advantaged of this if possible. I will be taking this from my POV in the DD so it won't always apply to other classes but other classes can look and think of ways to counter what I'm showing. It might be long read, but I think worth it. Also what do you guys think? What would you have done in my position or theirs??

 

1st example

 

 

So, first port of call, the team layout from spawn. As you can see, the red team split into 2 parts. A left and right flank. Though their Z-52 is un-spotted currently, he is with west flank. They have already split themselves early leaving a huge gap in the middle. They only have 1 radar, a Balitmore on the west, meaning he can only radar a small area of 1 flank. They have no vision from the centre and now dangerously exposed. You cannot do this, you need to contest key areas at all times if possible. If YOU are a player on that red team and you see this, call it out. Ping the map, put it in chat. If they ignore you? Do it yourself. Any ship could have halted my push, even a BB. A big target blocking the middle takes time to negate. Buying time wins games.

 

But nobody does commit themselves to the middle and this?? Well. This allows me to move up, and spot with impunity from the middle, I can see into both their flanks and with RPF have a rough idea at any one time where there DD's are moving to. My team now have full map vision, any red player trying to use islands, now will be spotted. Any re-position will be spotted. Any push will be seen and spotted. They have already lost this game, as every move they make WILL be seen and my team will be able to counter and adapt.

 

I can then and do move into the cap. This give my position away, but also causes panic into their team. I have forced them to make a move against their choice, and that will lose them the game. Do they send ships to me and weaken their flanks further? Do they ignore me and risk me capping? Or do they make a large push into my teams cap and force a fight? Either option means the engagement is dictated on mine and my teams terms. 

 

What do they do? Well, both the Fletcher and Z-52 leave the east and west flank to come into the middle and hunt me, only 1 DD needed to do that, this means, I have successfully pulled away their 2 DD's. This means they are being pulled back to their base, to waste time chasing me. I now know I cannot take the cap, but I can make them work hard to kill me and drag them further and further away from their team. I follow the purple path and though they eventually get me (Benham isn't a good gun boat) the game is almost won. My move pulled away their own vision on each flank. This gives my 2 DD's and 2 radar cruisers the time to spot, push and radar any cruisers attempting to do damage from smoke or spot ships using islands for cover. 

 

In short, the decision made by the red team to send no DD to the middle, or any ship at all and counter my move lost them the game before it even started. If you do not cover key areas this will happen time and time again, you don't need to be a unicorn DD player to do this, just a quick assessment of "Ohhhh I'm alone in front of a cap" will yield the same results most times. 

 

 

2nd example (part 1)

 

 

So, I have a bit more detail in this one, and it was a real doozy for me. 

 

Again, similar team layout. Red team split into 2 flanks again, east and west in the aim to lock down and take the caps. All 3 red DD's are spotted early, 1 DD in cap A and 2 DD's in cap D. This yet again has given me the middle uncontested, in a Benham... with 16 10.5km torps... (you know where this is going right?) The only radar is at D and I can safely stay out of it's range at all times. I am now free to spot and send torps at any target with impunity. I am also again able to spot ALL their team pretty much, meaning the same as the previous example. They cannot make any move without it being seen and countered by my team. We've won by this point again. 

 

2nd example (part 2)

 

 

The game is nearly over. I have pushed further, capped B, we also have A and D due to the quick panic and collapse on both enemy flanks. I have nailed 2 kills myself and sent so many torps they will get a twitchy eye every time they hear that warning. My teams hard pushes have forced the red team further and further back, I've also done 200k plus of spotting damage, all while never once being detected. Again, I have forced the engagements on my terms and teams terms. There is no way any team could come back from this, they have a huge points gap to make up, have taken massive damage across the board and 4 ships down to 0 in return. They have lost their radar ship, 1 DD is nearly dead and the other is no position to be effective. Again, all because they did not divert 1 of their 12 ships to spot and contest the middle. 

 

This results in a very easy win with great reward for little effort. I did not have to work hard for this, not because I'm amazing in DD's, but because they let me get away with easy mode DD play. 

 

 

1. Never spotted once. Not shot at once.
2. 214k spotting damage. My team had total vision, from the middle and then the red teams rear.
3. uncontested cap meant points will tick in my teams favour, making it ever harder for the red team to claw it back, meaning they have to push harder onto my team to try and get kills. 
4. So many torpedo's sent, 88 in 10 mins of game play. This forced damage cons (7 floods) forces the large HP ships with the biggest alpha to the back, where they are least effective. This means my teams DPM ships can pound and pound at them with impunity adding more DoT. 

 

 

 

And the last point I'm going to make, that will trigger some players. Get ready...

 

These outcomes would not have happened with a CV in game supporting the team. 

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

10 minutes ago, Bear_Necessities said:

These outcomes would not have happened with a CV in game supporting the team. 

Such an interesting statement. It reflects the intelligence of a CV player.

[Bear__Necessities]

1 minute ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

Such an interesting statement. It reflects the intelligence of a CV player.

Also reflects the intelligence of surface ships. That teams need bailing out by CV’s 

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

5 minutes ago, Bear_Necessities said:

Also reflects the intelligence of surface ships. That teams need bailing out by CV’s 

Carriers can strike and spot anywhere on the playing field without taking any risks. Of course ships won't go through the middle when there's a CV present. It doesn't mean it is the solution for better gameplay. I personally see carriers as part of the problem; degrading gameplay.

[quickr]

22 minutes ago, Bear_Necessities said:

So, I've been noticing a lot of games lately where there is little to no map awareness by teams

Just lately? 

 

23 minutes ago, Bear_Necessities said:

I wanted to make a thread highlighting how devastating ignoring the map and enemy team can be

I'm fairly sure most of us on forums are aware. Those that are not rarely/never visit forums.

 

23 minutes ago, Bear_Necessities said:

These outcomes would not have happened with a CV in game supporting the team. 

Highly doubtful.

[Rhineheart_Thor]

23 minutes ago, Bear_Necessities said:

So, I've been noticing a lot of games lately where there is little to no map awareness by teams, my own and enemy.

 

 

@Bear_Necessities

 

An Excellent Post 

[Bear__Necessities]

6 minutes ago, quickr said:

I'm fairly sure most of us on forums are aware. Those that are not rarely/never visit forums.

You’d think that wouldn’t ya... but I’ve read what some on this forum post.....

 

6 minutes ago, quickr said:

Highly doubtful.

Care to expand? Coz what I did in my DD could be done easier and quicker in a CV. Coz that’s what I would have done in a CV.

[RAHJAILARI]

Well as for scenario number 1. Their predicament was clearly mostly attributable to their only radar ship. Baltimore  positioning himself clearly wrong. He should have gone to the middle if both DD's were at the flank or alternatively, whichever DD started at the middle should have stayed there to cover it. That much is common sense, usually I try to point it out in chat but I have also noticed that saying anything like, "please someone cover the middle" (no matter how politely you say it) will often just lead to someone reporting you for whatever. Apparently people tend to feel that even a suggestion to do something is highly offensive and therefore I often just try to see how the team is distributing themselves and then try to cover any gaps. This also leads to karma loss, since I "abandoned" the flank I was spawned in but leads to less disastrous losses, so it's worth it I reckon.

 

As for scenario 2. Yeah, what can I say? I have once done a similar caper with an Atlanta and there was a CV in game keeping me spotted. Apparently the enemy team paid no attention though because I did manage to cap B and continued unharmed to apprehend the offending CV from behind a nearby island (yeah, the usual one at the middle). I gave him +1 though because he was the only one even trying to defend the middle and the rest of his team just turned a blind eye without assist and basically let me blap him (tier 6 Furious against Atlanta? Not good). They then proceeded to go public in chat to ask also our team to report their CV for getting killed on the job. People are weird. To his credit, despite of being harassed by me, their CV had also somehow managed to kill the other one of our 2 DD's before I got to him and based on their responses I don't think any of our team actually bothered reporting him either.

 

Ignoring the middle is probably the most common mistake on any map teams tend to make, the second most popular being ignoring 1 flank entirely, which also happens with annoying regularity. But then again, that is just my own guess.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Yes i have map awareness, thank you for asking ♡☆♡

 

As a CV player i have absolute superior and unbeatable map awareness ☆

[Uglesett]

My map awareness is inversely proportional to the amount of beer I've been drinking while playing 

[RAHJAILARI]

4 minutes ago, Uglesett said:

My map awareness is inversely proportional to the amount of beer I've been drinking while playing 

OK ditto. I can totally relate to that too. This is precisely why I try my best to limit my WoWs playtime to within the "coffee drinking hours" of the day.

 

Of course, I am not always 100% successful in this effort.

[quickr]

31 minutes ago, Bear_Necessities said:

Care to expand? Coz what I did in my DD could be done easier and quicker in a CV. Coz that’s what I would have done in a CV.

I can't be arsed to read wall of text describing some game in which your or enemy team potatoed out. Anyone who played WOWS for more than a 100 games knows these things happen all the time. When a team wins purely by being less potato than the other team it's hardly worth analyzing it. Teamwork, tactics and random game can't fit in the same sentence. You are paired with 11 other random people: some are AFK, some can't figure out where "W" key is, some are there only to see things explode and rarely, very rarely you get someone actually trying to win. You want teamwork and proper tactics, try playing clan battles.

 

Why I said CV can't fix that match you played? Simple, problem is much deeper than a simple "put cv in it, that will fix things" solution you propose. Other things is. CVs have a nasty habit of hording enemy ships like sheep, so if anything that match would be even more terrible to play.

 

Expended enough?

[Jethro_Grey]

My map awareness? Dude, i am perfectly aware that i have a minimap. 

No idea what it's for, maybe some kind of mini-warships game inside a warships game? 

But how can i steer the ships on the mini map? Not aware of any way.

[El2aZeR]

Ofc I do.

After all I must know who and what I need to  on next with an endless flood of aircraft. 

[lossi_2018]

Good situational examples, and right about the CVs even more so today as one saved me arse in a nail biter at 01 sec before game over wit a timely rocket drop (i'd managed a miraculous minimap volley through the straits and over mountains before I went down too :P)  after I complained so much to him he probably downvoted me to 0 again haha :D I upvoted his play and would have sent a cake while again reminding myself that I rather have one good CV partner in my games than any other ship :)

[quickr]

So... ummmm... about "things wouldn't happen if CV was in the game"

 

 

 

Enemy team does the split, I push in thru the mid, uncontested, torping and sinking GK on my way in.

 

I start caping. First it takes 2 minutes for a CV to even notice that their base is being caped. Only than he sends planes after me after which i smoke up. I was pushed out, not by a CV but by a shima skill wall.

After i dealt with shima, i get back into the cap and cap it with the help of friendly haragumo.

 

 

 

 

Now tell me @Bear_Necessities how does my game differs from your game? And I had CV in it, which should have solved the "map awareness" problem somehow.

 

 

 

 

 

[El2aZeR]

17 minutes ago, quickr said:

"things wouldn't happen if CV was in the game"

 

Here, let me fix that.

17 minutes ago, quickr said:

"things wouldn't happen if skilled CV was in the game"

 

There we go. 

[CptBarney]

*Makes topic and thread about something useful*

 

*Explains in well thoughout manner and decent grammar and sentence structure, with pictures included to back up examples and claims*

 

*gets trolled anyways*

 

 

Either way thanks for the topic regardless, i've had similar situations like this but i think peeps pick up earlier on that sailing down the mid is usually a bad idea.

 

Reminds me of today how some hatsu was whinging about me not putting fighter planes over him while i along with two suicidal DD's an edinburgh, KGV (that fecked off in good order) and some random cruiser, defended A preventing 6 ships from pushing while the rest of our team (including the hatsu) decided that finding the magical hyperglue was more important and said moron proceeded to flame in chat and also cap b uselessly (we had 500+pt by this point plus they only had 3 ships left).

 

It shows people lack basic FS, SA, CS and IQ when playing this game.

[KillStealBoss]

Many people play with too small minimap. With no last position of ships, no ship names etc. 

[quickr]

13 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

There we go

OP didn't specified, why should I?

 

4 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

Makes topic and thread about something useful*

 

*Explains in well thoughout manner and decent grammar and sentence structure, with pictures included to back up examples and claims*

 

*gets trolled anyways*

 

Posting pictures and writing a wall of text automatically classify a thread useful? Good to know.

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

Many people play with too small minimap. With no last position of ships, no ship names etc. 

Like I said, problem is much bigger than "here, add this, now it's fixed".

 

 

 

[Bear__Necessities]

18 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

*Makes topic and thread about something useful*

 

*Explains in well thoughout manner and decent grammar and sentence structure, with pictures included to back up examples and claims*

 

*gets trolled anyways*

 

 

Either way thanks for the topic regardless, i've had similar situations like this but i think peeps pick up earlier on that sailing down the mid is usually a bad idea.

 

Reminds me of today how some hatsu was whinging about me not putting fighter planes over him while i along with two suicidal DD's an edinburgh, KGV (that fecked off in good order) and some random cruiser, defended A preventing 6 ships from pushing while the rest of our team (including the hatsu) decided that finding the magical hyperglue was more important and said moron proceeded to flame in chat and also cap b uselessly (we had 500+pt by this point plus they only had 3 ships left).

 

It shows people lack basic FS, SA, CS and IQ when playing this game.

 

You know, i kinda expected that. I mean, it's WAY easier to pick little bit and focus on that. WAY easier to read a thread not really mentioning the CV class other than 1 line and hi-jacking it. Sometimes I can't help but think  the forum. 

[KillStealBoss]

32 minutes ago, quickr said:

Like I said, problem is much bigger than "here, add this, now it's fixed".

I know it’s bigger. There are a lot of levels of ignorance. 

[TeaAndTorps]

Good post @Bear_Necessities, thanks. Always good to have a reminder of these things  Also a good reminder to sometimes try more daring plays in my DDs than I currently do – maybe I'm a bit too cautious at times lately.

 

Interested though: do you think that a CV's ability (assuming sufficient competence) to bail out a team that positions poorly in this way makes those games better or less enjoyable overall? Or do you simply mean to observe that a CV changes what's possible, without attaching any value judgement to that?

 

Regarding my own map awareness, I think it's pretty good on maps I'm familiar with these days. Making the right call based on that, rather less consistent, but I can usually see where I went wrong in retrospect. It's a learning experience. I have just hit T7 with a decidedly below-average Helena grind though and getting used to new maps takes its time, I think (another good reason to take it slowly). So on some I'm doing reasonably well and on others (*cough* Land of Fire *cough*) I just can't figure out the right positions. Yet.

 

Funnily enough the better games in my Helena have tended to be the ones where the enemy DDs have thought my team were giving them a free run at our home cap, only to be rudely interrupted by 15 six-inch barrels of freedom and democracy* (*restrictions and exclusions apply). Presumably because I can make myself useful without finding myself in the enemy BBs' kill zone.

[Uglesett]

2 hours ago, RAHJAILARI said:

OK ditto. I can totally relate to that too. This is precisely why I try my best to limit my WoWs playtime to within the "coffee drinking hours" of the day.

"Coffee drinking hours" for me are usually restricted to when I'm at work, or else I  up my sleep pattern*. While I try to not be completely sloshed while playing (but currently I'm not really in a position to get completely sloshed anyway), I play to relax and unwind, not to be a tryhard and win at all costs. So if being a bit tired or having a beer makes me play at less than optimal condition I don't really care tbh.

 

And with that, I can explain why my first reply was only semi-joking: I think most of the semi-competent players on this forum are intellectually fully aware of the issues raised in this thread (and of the ones who aren't, a lot are probably hopeless cases anyway). So this thread is sort of kicking in open doors.

 

Unfortunately, being intellectually aware of something does not equate to being able to put it to good use. And that's sort of my point. Yes, I understand why map awareness is important. But actually having good map awareness while in the thick of it... well, that depends on how much brain capacity is available at any given time. I'm not going to deny that the hours of the day when I actually have time to play also tends to be the part of the day where my brain tends to downclock itself quite significantly. And I'm not going to stop having a beer or a wee dram while playing just because it impacts my performance a bit.

 

*Although with a month old kid in the house, it can't really get any worse I guess 

[ClappingLollies]

My map awareness is like my bowling skills. The more beer i drink, the better i get.