Nerf on Japanese Gunboats ?

[StalkerSoC]

Well hello everyone...
Am I the only one thinking that Akizuki, Kitakaze and Harugumo are too strong at their tier ?
Akizuki got the highest of all T8 DDs, the ability to pen 32mm with HE, good torpedo, nice speed and concealment.
Kitakaze is even stronger, with a concealment almost equal to Jutland, while having a lot more DPS, better torps with the reload booster, same ability to destroy 32mm plating like it's butter, and quite good speed.

Harugumo might be the most balanced, but still, it's quite a strong and capable DD...

Am I the only one thinking they need a bit of a nerf on something ?

[Major_Damage225]

I'd have to say no on that, are they competitive, yes. 

Are they leaning twoards OP, nah. 

[StalkerSoC]

My biggest issue is that they can gun down and just farm everything, BBs, CA/CLs and DDs anyway. They out DPM almost everything at their tier bare Smolensk, Colbert and some high rate of fire cruiser, but well.

- Akizuki in CB shows us how good it is at doing everything with those 1 Cossack 2 Akizuki composition, melting down every T8 cruisers because, most of the time they don't have heal and very high DPM.

- Kitakaze in ranked which look like one of the most picked DD this season, almost impossible to beat in a duel if you are not a Black that can smoke and radar.

 

To me it seems unjust that they are just too good at everything, even torping.

[Captain_Singleton]

they only just got buffed, so no, not really

[VanD4rk]

They sacrifice agility and speed for that firepower. They are balanced in this way.

They might get nerfed if the IFHE rework will hit live.

So a big NO for individual nerfs.

[Bics93]

You can check their stats on WoWs Numbers or MarpleSyrup to see that they are not the top dogs of their tier, their are strong, but far from OPness, and I don’t think they need a nerf. 

[DFens_666]

Im not sure if they are OP, but imo they represent a certain type of ships, which are bad for the game. Ofc there are others aswell, so its not only those.

Arguably it started back when RN CLs were introduced.

[NoirLotus]

The rework of IFHE will nerf them very soon.

 

So let's wait a bit to see how it goes.

[T0byJug]

25 minutes ago, StalkerSoC said:

Well hello everyone...
Am I the only one thinking that Akizuki, Kitakaze and Harugumo are too strong at their tier ?
Akizuki got the highest of all T8 DDs, the ability to pen 32mm with HE, good torpedo, nice speed and concealment.
Kitakaze is even stronger, with a concealment almost equal to Jutland, while having a lot more DPS, better torps with the reload booster, same ability to destroy 32mm plating like it's butter, and quite good speed.

Harugumo might be the most balanced, but still, it's quite a strong and capable DD...

Am I the only one thinking they need a bit of a nerf on something ?

Ok you have LeTerrible Cossack and Okhotnik in port and you complain about powerfull gun boats..

 

Kitakaze-Jutland Jutland an disengage and HEAL. something Kita can not do. Jutland Torpedoes reload much faster and she has more of them. Yes Kita gets reload boost.. BUT that allows her to do a double launch then the next one will be a single as the consumable is on cool down. Also i would not say Kita torps are better than Jutland.. There just different

 

I notice you have note played these IJN DD's Maybe you should before drawing such conclusions

 

https://wows-numbers.com/ships/

 

Look here Kita and Jutland performance is very similar

 

In Random battles tier 8 and 9  DDs are pretty much balanced.

 

OK Clan battles is  this is completely not the case, but thats a different subject.

 

And yes i have played just about EVERY DD in the game

[KillStealBoss]

Akizuki is only a shadow of what it was before the introduction of Kitakaze and Harugumo. It had better detection and rudder shift. Harugumo eats BB full pens. The most effective one is the Kitakaze and I know a lot of people prefering it over the Harugumo. 

[T0byJug]

7 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

Akizuki is only a shadow of what it was before the introduction of Kitakaze and Harugumo. It had better detection and rudder shift. Harugumo eats BB full pens. The most effective one is the Kitakaze and I know a lot of people prefering it over the Harugumo. 

Thats an understatement.. Many would prefer them swapped in tier..   Kitakaze would be much better  tier X clan than Harugumo....

[lossi_2018]

1 hour ago, StalkerSoC said:

Well hello everyone...
Am I the only one thinking that Akizuki, Kitakaze and Harugumo are too strong at their tier ?
Akizuki got the highest of all T8 DDs, the ability to pen 32mm with HE, good torpedo, nice speed and concealment.
Kitakaze is even stronger, with a concealment almost equal to Jutland, while having a lot more DPS, better torps with the reload booster, same ability to destroy 32mm plating like it's butter, and quite good speed.

Harugumo might be the most balanced, but still, it's quite a strong and capable DD...

Am I the only one thinking they need a bit of a nerf on something ?

no more nerfs to the kita plz :/ Nerf smolesk instead

[thisismalacoda]

Looking at two month WR%, the only T8-T10 silver DD that's an outlier is Daring.

 

 

[herrjott]

Vor 1 Stunde, T0byJug sagte:

 https://wows-numbers.com/ships/

 

 Look here Kita and Jutland performance is very similar

 

Because of this performance, Jutland was just nerved in 0.8.6 and Kitakami has 25% higher damage.

Zitat

British destroyer Jutland

The reload time of the ship's main battery guns has been increased from 3.5 to 4 seconds.

Jutland is an excellent close-range fighter, but her overall combat efficiency turned out to be excessively high. This change will bring Jutland back into balance with other same-type ships.

I would say they should nerf penetration to 1/5th caliber (even with teased IFHE nerf) and then buff otherwise, if they underperform.

[Pikkozoikum]

Never understood the term "gunboat" specially for ships like Akizuki, which was mistaken by the allies for a light cruiser

[lossi_2018]

I usually upvote all rants but here I must make a stand? :D (i gave upvote despite my disagreement)  Why only japanese? there are lots of gunboats rn sailing around. Maybe instead of nerfs a more logical synthesis of the mm is preferable? So all classes are represent and multiple ships are limited in appearances. I don't think it will happen but just my 2 cents or less prob haha

[mtm78]

On 8/26/2019 at 3:36 PM, StalkerSoC said:

Well hello everyone...
Am I the only one thinking that Akizuki, Kitakaze and Harugumo are too strong at their tier ?
Akizuki got the highest of all T8 DDs, the ability to pen 32mm with HE, good torpedo, nice speed and concealment.
Kitakaze is even stronger, with a concealment almost equal to Jutland, while having a lot more DPS, better torps with the reload booster, same ability to destroy 32mm plating like it's butter, and quite good speed.

Harugumo might be the most balanced, but still, it's quite a strong and capable DD...

Am I the only one thinking they need a bit of a nerf on something ?

 

 You seem to suffer from a cognitive bias, you play only AGAINST them so you seem to think they are stronger then the ships you're playing right? Your Lightning, Cossack and Le Terrible in a 2k game player hands who spend quite some money on advancing fast, those ships shouldn't be doing 57/58% wr, they should be doing more, but it's the imbalanced IJN gunboats fault.

 

( edit: my tone might been harsh, I shouldn't call your post repulsive I should just call it 'opportunistic'. ). 

 

IJN Destroyers are finally in a decent place, stop asking WG to touch our lolibotes!

 

Only patting is allowed!

Spoiler

 

On 8/26/2019 at 6:34 PM, Pikkozoikum said:

Never understood the term "gunboat" specially for ships like Akizuki, which was mistaken by the allies for a light cruiser

 

Meh still don't agree with not giving Akizuki DFAA, it was an escort destroyer in real life.. 

 

Compare low tier Yubari with Akizuki, I can (edit: forgot a word...) see why they thought it was a cruiser it is only 20 meters shorter ( 40m+ compared with say a Kuma though ). 

[Pikkozoikum]

3 minutes ago, mtm78 said:

6 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Never understood the term "gunboat" specially for ships like Akizuki, which was mistaken by the allies for a light cruiser

 

Meh still don't agree with not giving Akizuki DFAA, it was an escort destroyer in real life.. 

 

Compare low tier Yubari with Akizuki, I can why they thought it was a cruiser it is only 20 meters shorter ( 40m+ compared with say a Kuma though ). 

What are you talking about?

[mtm78]

7 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

What are you talking about?

Comprehension issues? Yubari is a light cruiser, contemporary because serving in the same time frame. Yubari beam length is only about 20m more as Akizuki in real life, while a Kuma light cruiser is another ~22m or so longer as a Yubari.

 

And yes, if you did not know, Akizuki was designed as AA escort primarily hence the dual purpose main guns. I find that ships which were built to do a certain task in game should get consumable which enable it ( if it's already in the game ). 

 

WG claimed first DFAA was reserved to USN DD's.... then came VMF DD's with DFAA.. but IJN wasn't allowed to be depicted in the game for the role she was built and designed for. Sure it has good AAA, but not having access to the consumable just doesn't feel right. 

 

Anyway, hope this clears things up for you. 

 

edit: 

 

I'm an idiot, I didn't notice my grammar error, sorry. I meant to say " I can SEE why they thought ".

There, better now? 

[Pikkozoikum]

1 minute ago, mtm78 said:

Comprehension issues? Yubari is a light cruiser, contemporary because serving in the same time frame. Yubari beam length is only about 20m more as Akizuki in real life, while a Kuma light cruiser is another ~22m or so longer as a Yubari.

 

And yes, if you did not know, Akizuki was designed as AA escort primarily hence the dual purpose main guns. I find that ships which were built to do a certain task in game should get consumable which enable it ( if it's already in the game ). 

 

WG claimed first DFAA was reserved to USN DD's.... then came VMF DD's with DFAA.. but IJN wasn't allowed to be depicted in the game for the role she was built and designed for. Sure it has good AAA, but not having access to the consumable just doesn't feel right. 

 

Anyway, hope this clears things up for you. 

I was talking about the term "gunboat". Akizuki is not a boat?

[mtm78]

8 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

I was talking about the term "gunboat". Akizuki is not a boat?

 

You said you didn't understand they called it a gunboat, and then said it was mistaken for a cruiser. I wrongly started explaining why it could easilly have been mistaken for one, it's almost as big as a contemporary light cruiser, but I understand now what you mean: the term boat. 

 

Yes, a gunboat is a word we use for destroyers which are focused on main battery guns. Like a Khaba ( more pure gunboat you can't really get it as it's not good at anything else ). It is not a historical of naval term, but one used only internally in discussions related to the game to differentiate between gun focused. hybrid and torpedo focused destroyers. 

 

It's technically very wrong to call ships 'boats'. I think many a sailor would gladly slap you on the head for it but it's just tongue in cheek. And it sounds a lot catchier than 'gun-focused destroyer' especially if you have to say it multiple times :)

 

edit: sorry for not spending more effort on reading and understand you post right away, it's late I should get some sleep

 

[Pikkozoikum]

Just now, mtm78 said:

 

You said you didn't understand they called it a gunboat, and then said it was mistaken for a cruiser. I wrongly started explaining why it could easilly have been mistaken for one, it's almost as big as a contemporary light cruiser, but I understand now what you mean: the term boat. 

 

Yes, a gunboat is a word we use for destroyers which are focused on main battery guns. Like a Khaba ( more pure gunboat you can't really get it as it's not good at anything else ). It is not a historical of naval term, but one used only internally in discussions related to the game to differentiate between gun focused. hybrid and torpedo focused destroyers. 

 

It's technically very wrong to call ships 'boats'. I think many a sailor would gladly slap you on the head for it but it's just tongue in cheek. And it sounds a lot catchier than 'gun-focused destroyer' especially if you have to say it multiple times :)

 

That's what I'm saying. The Us mistaken it for a light cruiser, but people call it boat... That's the conflict I have.

I would call it Artillery DD

[Butterdoll]

9 hours ago, StalkerSoC said:

Well hello everyone...
Am I the only one thinking that Akizuki, Kitakaze and Harugumo are too strong at their tier ?
Akizuki got the highest of all T8 DDs, the ability to pen 32mm with HE, good torpedo, nice speed and concealment.
Kitakaze is even stronger, with a concealment almost equal to Jutland, while having a lot more DPS, better torps with the reload booster, same ability to destroy 32mm plating like it's butter, and quite good speed.

Harugumo might be the most balanced, but still, it's quite a strong and capable DD...

Am I the only one thinking they need a bit of a nerf on something ?

About the others I can't speak, but Akizuki it's fine, I sunk a couple with a t6 cruiser.

And I'm not saying this to brag about whatever.

I just think that's good to keep a couple of ships like Akizuki to avoid overconfidence and stuff, to keep us on our toes and keep us in line.

the first I sunk I saw him, he went for me, well it wasn't free lunch, he could citadel my ship and he did

In the end, it wasn't worth it sinking him I took too much damage.

But I learned and after that I could take out dds like that without taking as much damage as I did in that battle.

At least akizuki, I want to be as is, about the others I can't comment.

 

[mtm78]

I think technically it would be called an AA Escort ( that's their official designation from the Imperial Japanese Navy ).

 

 

[That_Other_Nid]

9 hours ago, StalkerSoC said:

Well hello everyone...
Am I the only one thinking that Akizuki, Kitakaze and Harugumo are too strong at their tier ?
Akizuki got the highest of all T8 DDs, the ability to pen 32mm with HE, good torpedo, nice speed and concealment.
Kitakaze is even stronger, with a concealment almost equal to Jutland, while having a lot more DPS, better torps with the reload booster, same ability to destroy 32mm plating like it's butter, and quite good speed.

Harugumo might be the most balanced, but still, it's quite a strong and capable DD...

Am I the only one thinking they need a bit of a nerf on something ?

They are the only fun IJN players get. The majority of IJN ships have been powercreeped to some extent. Those three are the only outright broken ships in any of their lines so I say leave them alone.