Disallow 3 of a kind Divisions

[mbbb81]

Though I understand it can be fun for the ones doing it, it is overall destructive to gameplay.

 

I am not going to write an essay about it, and I don't care much about elitist comments about counter measures to perma-smoke, a gazzillion incoming shots per second, or triple torp boost giving 30-60 torps coming your way every 3 minutes.

 

My main thing is, that it is destructive to game play that 3 coordinated ships in a "random game" with the same features can target down several opponents in few minutes with almost no chance of retaliation.

 

When you "unexpectedly" meet:

 

3 wooster stealth firing behind islands sometimes 18 km away

3 smolensk in perma smoke (cant even really see where their shots originates from within the smoke)

3 shima/harekaze/kitakaze

3 Minotaur

3 etc.

 

In a random game, you cannot rely on a radar being close by every time. Cannot rely on a CV to do the necessary spotting. Cannot rely on a DD doing this either as they are busy torping Battleships or capping.

 

This causes gameplay where you either:

A: Avoid that division at all cost and see your team melt down.

B: Go foolishly full speed at them and/or only shoot at them even when they are hidden.

 

On the team they are on, given that they actually direct the outcome of the battle, it is also less fun with little to no damage. Or you get one of those 3 div's where they are suiciding within 3 minutes.

 

With the addition of Smolensk as yet another over the top RUS ship, that has everything except radar, I am finally fed up with this.

 

So this is my petition to Make the identical ships in a Random game division to a limit of maximum 2.

 

PS. I have no problems with Mino, Smolensk and Wooster being in the same div, this is only about 3 of a kind divisions. And this is a long time consideration, not just because I just had 2 triple smolensk games in a row, that just reinforced this thinking.

 

 

[Bear__Necessities]

Our 3 Kremlin’s say off to Gulag you go!

[mbbb81]

6 minutes ago, Bear_Necessities said:

Our 3 Kremlin’s day off to Gulag you go!

I intentionally did not mention the OP battleship being the Kremlin, that can unleash its wrath with impunity more or less. As they can be focused down.

My concern is mostly related to agile rapid fire ships, or the torpedo wall you have no chance of avoiding other than sitting at the edge of map.

[asalonen]

Can anybody name a three-of-a-kind division that's actually particularly strong? Some of them work OK -- we've had good success with Nelsons -- but mostly they're used for laughs.

[mbbb81]

Just now, asalonen said:

Can anybody actually name a three-of-a-kind division that's actually particularly strong? Some of them work OK -- we've had good success with Nelsons -- but mostly they're used for laughs.

Well them Kremlins of course. But otherwise see my proposed list of ships where if played right you have almost no chance of taking out. But again when its just for laughs, my point still stands that either you triumph hard or you end up suiciding for a little diversity. I dont expect many to agree with me, this forum is usually toxic as most other's these days. But did want to at least mention my view at this specific scenario.

[159Hunter]

1 hour ago, mbbb81 said:

3 wooster stealth firing behind islands sometimes 18 km away

What kind of *edited* fits his wooster to shoot 18 km?

[Tyrendian89]

6 minutes ago, 159Hunter said:

What kind of retard fits his wooster to shoot 18 km?

or is dumb enough to get farmed by them, especially when they have to rely on random derpy teammates to actually spot for them?

 

If anything, three-of-the-same divisions should be banned because they usually put their team at a massive disadvantage - three ships coordinating different strengths are sooooo much stronger than that kind of meme comp. And that's not even counting your usual Wehraboo Triple Bismarck 40% Winrate divs that you see all the bloody time...

[asalonen]

15 minutes ago, mbbb81 said:

Well them Kremlins of course.

Possibly so, if Kremlin itself is OP, and looking at its stats it might be. Nothing's better than an OP ship except multiple OP ships. But then it will be nerfed eventually, being a regular tech-tree ship. In general, if any ship is acceptable for the game in the first place, I don't see any particularly good reasons to prevent using three in the same division. 

 

In some cases three-of-a-kind works well enough. In the case of Nelson for example, the main weakness is weak long-range AA, and in tight formation the overlapping auras actually negate that to a significant degree. But you're still in a division of three one-trick ponies, and at least for skilled players more diverse divisions are generally stronger. 

I think the main problem are actually ridiculously OP premiums, that have been withdrawn from sale due to being unbalanced. Think 3 Giulio Cesares in a T5 battle for example. I'm cool with somebody playing it since they paid for it, but facing three seems a bit rough.

[lossi_2018]

40 minutes ago, mbbb81 said:

Though I understand it can be fun for the ones doing it, it is overall destructive to gameplay.

 

I am not going to write an essay about it, and I don't care much about elitist comments about counter measures to perma-smoke, a gazzillion incoming shots per second, or triple torp boost giving 30-60 torps coming your way every 3 minutes.

 

My main thing is, that it is destructive to game play that 3 coordinated ships in a "random game" with the same features can target down several opponents in few minutes with almost no chance of retaliation.

 

When you "unexpectedly" meet:

 

3 wooster stealth firing behind islands sometimes 18 km away

3 smolensk in perma smoke (cant even really see where their shots originates from within the smoke)

3 shima/harekaze/kitakaze

3 Minotaur

3 etc.

 

In a random game, you cannot rely on a radar being close by every time. Cannot rely on a CV to do the necessary spotting. Cannot rely on a DD doing this either as they are busy torping Battleships or capping.

 

This causes gameplay where you either:

A: Avoid that division at all cost and see your team melt down.

B: Go foolishly full speed at them and/or only shoot at them even when they are hidden.

 

On the team they are on, given that they actually direct the outcome of the battle, it is also less fun with little to no damage. Or you get one of those 3 div's where they are suiciding within 3 minutes.

 

With the addition of Smolensk as yet another over the top RUS ship, that has everything except radar, I am finally fed up with this.

 

So this is my petition to Make the identical ships in a Random game division to a limit of maximum 2.

 

PS. I have no problems with Mino, Smolensk and Wooster being in the same div, this is only about 3 of a kind divisions. And this is a long time consideration, not just because I just had 2 triple smolensk games in a row, that just reinforced this thinking.

 

 

Excellent post, I read only the title but I strongly agree

[Fatal_Ramses]

Seeing 3 Guilio Caesares in pre-battle screen was pretty scary.

Thankfully 90% of their team started following them everywhere, so our team had cap control. Our DDs hand no trouble encircling them and launching torpedoes from 3 different directions.

[pion72]

Out of interest when one sees a triple div of the same ship on your team what is your first thought? Mine is not usually "we're going to steamroll this". :D

[Yedwy]

Well my clan once did a 3xstalingrad, never saw that much karma dip before or after 

[Fatal_Ramses]

10 minutes ago, pion72 said:

Out of interest when one sees a triple div of the same ship on your team what is your first thought? Mine is not usually "we're going to steamroll this". :D

I have pretty much the exact opposite. I've rarely seen 3 of a kind that has contributed significantly for my teams win.

If its a trio of BBs, either they yolo, or the whole team runs and hides behind them.

DDs, tend to yolo a cap, share the same smoke and end up as someones triple-strike.

Cruisers end up all around the map and get picked one by one.

 

This week I've seen a triple Guilos and triple Moskvas failing for enemy. All though in both battles one or more were the last enemy ships afloat.

[pion72]

2 minutes ago, Fatal_Ramses said:

I have pretty much the exact opposite. I've rarely seen 3 of a kind that has contributed significantly for my teams win.

If its a trio of BBs, either they yolo, or the whole team runs and hides behind them.

DDs, tend to yolo a cap, share the same smoke and end up as someones triple-strike.

Cruisers end up all around the map and get picked one by one.

 

This week I've seen a triple Guilos and triple Moskvas failing for enemy. All though in both battles one or more were the last enemy ships afloat.

I think that's what I said.

 

25 minutes ago, pion72 said:

Mine is not usually "we're going to steamroll this". :D

You may have missed the "not".

[mbbb81]

So I guess there is some consensus to disallow 3 identical ships, some for same reasons as me, or as an elaboration on the "suicide" part, where the three are the only ones with balls and gets killed for it. In any regard, I do not think it advocates better gameplay, but only the opposite.

[Bmsrt]

Oh well great idea!

A little correction...

 

Pls disallow 3 German-whatever divisions-identical,they trow games so hard that blows my mind...

3 Kurfurst div humping the borders...or that 3X Maas division that out of 2 was firstnoob+devstrike comboed by a fXking no cammo Akasucky newb player...(the last one fell victim to a Fubuki

,no kidding)

Pls no more,thanks!

[ColonelPete]

3x one specific ship is one of the worst division setups.

Every ship has a weakness. With such a division you have this x3, probably in one area.

 

Divisions that complement each other are much stronger.

[Migantium_Mashum]

12 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

3x one specific ship is one of the worst division setups.

Every ship has a weakness. With such a division you have this x3, probably in one area.

 

Divisions that complement each other are much stronger.

Doing this again, sorry .. but I agree with you.

[mtm78]

Disallowing 3 of a kind is dumb. No really. Because I rather have 3 enemy BB's on my flank opposing me as a division with a radar / aa cruiser, a hybrid/gunboat DD and a battleship. The division with the later setup will generally be more dangerous. 

 

3xShima? LUL team up with another gunboat and you 2v3 them, let alone 3v3. It just dictates certain things which need doing or not doing. Same goes for any ship. Well, if you have 3 Belfast it's pretty toxic, also the tier VI with rolling smoke and spotter plane. But those are only toxic in same ship divisions because their weaknesses aren't as many so having those weaknesses amplified makes no real difference. Smoke + radar + hydro combo already doesn't leave much for a weakness, but meh. 

 

I bet 3 Colbert divisions feel pretty... But again, people are free to take what they want. And sometimes I do enjoy taking a full BB division and trying to surprise the potato's that even those can work. 

[Jvd2000]

The ultimate bad/ good feeling ( depending on which team you are) when you see a triple division Derpitz with extra HP due to captain perk, shooting HE at max range while torping 15 KM away enemies is not that much of a problem if you are on the other team.

 

A mix of different complementary type of ships is often a sign of future pain.

[Hopeless_Guppy]

3 hours ago, mbbb81 said:

I intentionally did not mention the OP battleship being the Kremlin, that can unleash its wrath with impunity more or less. As they can be focused down.

My concern is mostly related to agile rapid fire ships, or the torpedo wall you have no chance of avoiding other than sitting at the edge of map.

Is the Kremlin really that OP?

[MadBadDave]

I’ve yet to be in a 3 ship Division with my Gne, but having recently been in a two ship can say we steamrolled the reds we came across, mains and torps on BB’s and cruisers and secondaries on DD’s. I can only imagine 3 Gnes together or even 3 shiny’s together.  At T7 can you think of 3 other BB’s coming at you that will cause you to turn and run ?.  Eg.

imagine 3 specced for secondaries and the HE spammed out to any unlucky DD’s within 8 km. Anything regardless of tier would be toast, same goes for a 3 Tirpitz Div in T8. 

[DFens_666]

I agree, because having 3x Toptier BB / DD division is almost guaranteed a game you cant win. They will just go somewhere - all together - and be as useless as possible. Idc if they would be usefull, but 99% they are not.

 

[triumphgt6]

What!! Ban three of a kind - but that means no more triple Mikasa divs!! Or triple Okotnik! Where is the fun in that!

[triumphgt6]

And the Triple Lyon group as seen in Jingles was hilarious!