Rewards for Premium ships are not scaling properly

[BdW_Marecc]

I did buy a bunch of premium ships since I entered close beta and I noticed that the credit reward when you loose your ship (and that happens quiet frequently with aim mod and all) barely pays for service fees.

The higher tier you get, the worse the reward.

Yubari (Tier 4) is usually a moneymaker.

Warspite (Tier 6) is already a net loss more often than not.

Sims (Tier 7) is so-so. Net gain however is not higher than with a Yubari. So strictly speaking still not worth the money. I expect there will be non-premium ships with similar or better performance.

Atlanta (Tier 7) generally a gain, but still a rather low average.

Kitakami (Tier 8) is rather bad again due to the cost of repairs and torpedos.

As it is, premium ships are not worth driving. Coming from WoT, most Premium Tanks usually pay their keep and usually show a reasonable gain at least. In WoWS, we're not quiet there yet.

Please, make some adjustments. As it is, buying anything higher than Tier 4 or 5 is not a good choice, creditwise.

[KptStrzyga]

Gremmy makes good monies, repair and ammo cost is never higher than 20k, income on good game is 200k+.

[BdW_Marecc]

Gremmy is Tier 5 isn't it ? 20k service thats awsome, Warspite and up will usually cost 40k just to repair the hull, + ammo. And on some ships, like Kitakami with her torpedo batteries, ammo is awfully expensive. So I am probably right, anything higher than tier 5 is a waste if you just want to make credits.

[ArrNgee]

Lol a waste?

 

The Atlanta makes me 500k credits on a real good battle and 300-400k on good ones (after expenses)

[BdW_Marecc]

All of them make good money in good battles but in average battles or when your team looses, the money isn't anything to write home about. Atlanta is somewhat cheaper in repairs and a lot cheaper in ammo than, say, Kitakami, but in your average furball it doesn't make me more money than my Yubari.

E.g. the game right now: I rushed to cap for my team, dished out some damage, was caught in a crossfire and sunk midways through the battle (not before I had capped). So a bit of everything and my team won. I received something short of 50k credits, i had to pay about 41k in services, thats 9k, net gain. I can make more than that in my Yubari - easily done.

I'm not using any aim mods to pimp my damage output, so this is where I am.

[mtm78]

I am sorry but just no, no, no.

 

Though I admit this is a gut feeling as I don't have actual average income numbers but to me it certainly does not feel premium ships are not worth their money. Maybe you just do well enough in Yubari but worse in the other premiums? I got a Sims, and no complaints there, I got the Yubari and no complains, I got the Grey and other then that I am not that good with it, no complaints. I got a Murmansk as well. All off them not one excluded has given me really good credit income. 

 

The only ship I have I ever made a loss on was with Des Moines due to noobing out and dying without any damage. 

[Comander_07]

Pls keep in mind that these stats arent finished and we are likely to get more proper income with the OBT.

[mtm78]

Pls keep in mind that these stats arent finished and we are likely to get more proper income with the OBT.

 

pun intended, we will get proper income with OBT but it won't be more 

[Blue_Bug]

I have all the ships you mention except for the Kitikamu.

 

The Sims and the atlanta are moneyprinters. Although I do not do very well in the Warspite , I never took a loose in credits in it. Most of the time the earnings are very reasonable. The Yubari is not bad.

 

Please note that premium ships are mostly not the best ships of their tier. Please don't take this wrong, but maybe you need some more experience in the normal 5,6,7,8 tier ships, before you can fully apreciate these ships. 

[BdW_Marecc]

I know premium ships are middle-of-the-line, but since they lack the ability to improve by exploring modules, their reason for being is making money (training the captain too, but at some point the captain will be trained and that reason will no longer be of great importance). And yes, you're right, I'm not the most experienced skipper around, but I do not think those ships are supposed to perform well only in the hands of unicums. I rather think that premium ships have "casual player" written all over since they help to make money a bit faster or drive a ship same tier as your friends even tho you have less time to grind up.

I agree, earnings in good games are pretty good, but the higher the tier the less good games you seem to be able to get as the ships are less competitive, compared to regular ships. And this is the point I'm trying to make:

Have a bad game and you will still make some money in a Yubari. Have a bad game and you will loose money in a Warspite or Kitakami. Right now, we're not even fully spun up on the high tiers, with Kitakami I am often Top tier. After release I expect this will change, the premiums will face higher tier opponents a lot more often (simply because over time there are more and more of them) and then I expect the number of "good games" to reduce even more.

 

TL;DR: Earnings for less than stellar games should be increased on higher tier ships so you don't actually loose money driving a premium ship.

[mtm78]

I know premium ships are middle-of-the-line, but since they lack the ability to improve by exploring modules, their reason for being is making money (training the captain too, but at some point the captain will be trained and that reason will no longer be of great importance). And yes, you're right, I'm not the most experienced skipper around, but I do not think those ships are supposed to perform well only in the hands of unicums. I rather think that premium ships have "casual player" written all over since they help to make money a bit faster or drive a ship same tier as your friends even tho you have less time to grind up.

I agree, earnings in good games are pretty good, but the higher the tier the less good games you seem to be able to get as the ships are less competitive, compared to regular ships. And this is the point I'm trying to make:

Have a bad game and you will still make some money in a Yubari. Have a bad game and you will loose money in a Warspite or Kitakami. Right now, we're not even fully spun up on the high tiers, with Kitakami I am often Top tier. After release I expect this will change, the premiums will face higher tier opponents a lot more often (simply because over time there are more and more of them) and then I expect the number of "good games" to reduce even more.

 

TL;DR: Earnings for less than stellar games should be increased on higher tier ships so you don't actually loose money driving a premium ship.

 

I'm sorry but if you're loosing credits on a premium ship at this time during CBT, it's not the fault of the economy.

[BdW_Marecc]

I think if I'm loosing credits on a premium ship at this time in CBT it means that the lower income curve needs some adjustment. I'm not asking for higher earning on good games, those are fine, but loosing money on a premium ship just for not sticking with the lemming train ? Because that's basically the consequence. I make money if I play conservative and cautious, sticking with the crowd, hiding behind other, juicier targets - but seriously, for a team game that stinks.

I had games where I held a capture point on my own for a couple of minutes, binding enemy forces and slowing them down. In the end that delay was what won the game because - although we had been outgunned - that delay in being able to counter-capture, or deal with other ships of our team was what won the match. Likewise in a cap game your destroyers are supposed to sprint ahead and cap, risking early death. But with this mode of "reward" ?

If they don't change it only idiots will charge ahead to cap until they learn the hard way NOT to be the one who caps and die first. This IS Closed Beta, and this is an adjustment I propose which  I think will be better for the overall gameplay.

[mtm78]

I think if I'm loosing credits on a premium ship at this time in CBT it means that the lower income curve needs some adjustment. I'm not asking for higher earning on good games, those are fine, but loosing money on a premium ship just for not sticking with the lemming train ? Because that's basically the consequence. I make money if I play conservative and cautious, sticking with the crowd, hiding behind other, juicier targets - but seriously, for a team game that stinks.

I had games where I held a capture point on my own for a couple of minutes, binding enemy forces and slowing them down. In the end that delay was what won the game because - although we had been outgunned - that delay in being able to counter-capture, or deal with other ships of our team was what won the match. Likewise in a cap game your destroyers are supposed to sprint ahead and cap, risking early death. But with this mode of "reward" ?

If they don't change it only idiots will charge ahead to cap until they learn the hard way NOT to be the one who caps and die first. This IS Closed Beta, and this is an adjustment I propose which  I think will be better for the overall gameplay.

 

My gameplay is diverse, sometimes I play very defensively sometimes I'm gung ho about it, yet I still don't see this problem you are pointing out. Mind you I also have a premium account and might not take much notice of things in the left column in the rewards screen.

 

Also -> http://worldofwarships.eu/cbt/accounts/515040789-BdW_Marecc/

 

Sorry but you need to play more higher tier games in ships you actually unlocked normal tree ships at before being able to make judgement. You are exactly the type of Sims captain I do not want at my side going into a cap point as you lack experience. When you got some more experience in the same tier ships as your premiums and you still do badly in them, let me know maybe we can division together once. 

[BdW_Marecc]

And your attitude against casual players is exactly what will keep them away. Do we need another World of Warplanes ?

I should not have to "play higher tiers" in order to earn money with a tier 6 premium ship without premium account. That's snobbish nonsense, sorry.

[mtm78]

And your attitude against casual players is exactly what will keep them away. Do we need another World of Warplanes ?

I should not have to "play higher tiers" in order to earn money with a tier 6 premium ship without premium account. That's snobbish nonsense, sorry.

 

Sorry but what a load off bullocks. 

 

1. My attitude against 'casual' players? You mean my attitude against people who only played very low tiered and then complain about their tier 7 Sims credit earning ability? Then yeah, guilty as charged. As I said, you're not in a position to complain, frankly anyone who is complaining about the credit income during CBT is in for a nasty surprise when the dev's decide to stop boosting their income so they actually have to play decent to get good credits.

 

2. Snobbish? Nope, snobbish would be me telling you you're a terribad player. Which I never did nor am I not doing so now, you're only a special player who fails to make credits with a Sims.

 

ps. Sims is tier 7

[BdW_Marecc]

... I still don't see this problem you are pointing out. Mind you I also have a premium account and might not take much notice of things ...

 

Let me point it out for you WHY I find your attitude snobbish. In your words: I have premium so I don't have a clue what the rewards are without but I am telling you that it certainly must be because you're a bad player.

Somewhere aaaaall the way at the beginning of the thread I said: rewards for winning games are ok but you're loosing money if you have a bad game for whatever reason (bad player, bad team, good team but on the opposite side, whatever). And on a Tier 6 (remember I used the Warspite as an example) that's bad, mmmkay ? So raise the lower income a bit, not the top earnings.

In WoT it's Tier 5 and Tier 6 that consistently makes you money. Tier 8 when you know how to play but you can also end up loosing. Loosing money on a high tier is no biggy, go back to your middle tier, make some money, or buy premium and make enough even on high tier.

 

But are you seriously proposing that a casual player (as in "no high tier, not your leet experience, not enough time to play for hours because of RL ... excellent 3D graphics but the story is so-so ... or simply two left thumbs"), that as a casual you have to have premium time AND a premium ship to not loose money on a match ?

Come on, get a grip.

[mtm78]

 

 

Let me point it out for you WHY I find your attitude snobbish. In your words: I have premium so I don't have a clue what the rewards are without but I am telling you that it certainly must be because you're a bad player.

Somewhere aaaaall the way at the beginning of the thread I said: rewards for winning games are ok but you're loosing money if you have a bad game for whatever reason (bad player, bad team, good team but on the opposite side, whatever). And on a Tier 6 (remember I used the Warspite as an example) that's bad, mmmkay ? So raise the lower income a bit, not the top earnings.

In WoT it's Tier 5 and Tier 6 that consistently makes you money. Tier 8 when you know how to play but you can also end up loosing. Loosing money on a high tier is no biggy, go back to you middle tier, make some money, or buy premium and make enough even on high tier ?

 

But are you seriously proposing that a casual player (as in "no high tier, not you leet experience, not enough time to play for hours because of RL ... excellent 3D graphics but the story is so-so ... or simply two left thumbs"), that as a casual you have to have premium time AND a premium ship to not loose money on a match ?

Come on, get a grip.

 

 

TL;DR: Earnings for less than stellar games should be increased on higher tier ships so you don't actually loos

 

Let me say this again: if you're loosing money in a Sims you should not blame the economy. 

 

Edit: ow, and yeah sorry you are mostly referring to your torp spemmer right ( Kitakami ). That ship has been buffed ( with getting smoke ) for a reason.. I don't own it so I can't say much about that particular ship's credit income, but I still doubt any semi normal player is having income issues with it. 

 

 

[McLeod]

Bad players will lose money at higher tiers regardless of premium account/ships (goes for tanks in WoT too) and will earn less or possibly still even lose money at lower tiers as their capability of performing well enough to cover their ammo/repair costs is poor.

People that are losing money in the inflated economy of the CBT are bad, people that are losing money in CBT with a premium account or premium ship are even worse.

 

Having a premium ship or account does not give you an automatic right to earn money, you still have to have the ability to perform in the game and do the damage required to make the money.

[Shagulon]

I bought the three ship package just to get into the CBT after watching all the vids on youtube. Must say I'm glad I did as I have had so much fun even in beta.

 

I played my first games in these ships (Sims Yaburi and Grem(something)), which are all very very good ships. However, I got totally pwned in those first games. This is when I realised that I actually had to build up to these ships slowly, and spend my time learning the game in lower level ships vs lower level players. Actually I played in the vs bots games for a good few days following my harsh introduction.

 

My advice, play in the normal ships until you get to those tiers naturally WITHIN EACH SPECIFIC TECH LINE for that ship. Otherwise, sorry but you will lose a lot.

[Captain_Edwards]

I bought the three ship package just to get into the CBT after watching all the vids on youtube. Must say I'm glad I did as I have had so much fun even in beta.

 

I played my first games in these ships (Sims Yaburi and Grem(something)), which are all very very good ships. However, I got totally pwned in those first games. This is when I realised that I actually had to build up to these ships slowly, and spend my time learning the game in lower level ships vs lower level players. Actually I played in the vs bots games for a good few days following my harsh introduction.

 

 

My advice, play in the normal ships until you get to those tiers naturally WITHIN EACH SPECIFIC TECH LINE for that ship. Otherwise, sorry but you will lose a lot.

 

Solid advice, thats exactly what I did when I started playing. Work to the tier, don't just jump in.

[BdW_Marecc]

Sorry but none of your "advice" is anything but sugarcoated trolling. "Get better" ? The point is what happens if you*re NOT GOOD. For whatever reason. Continuing to harp about "oh you're so bad" - how do YOU know how I play ? I noticed what happens when you loose your ship early, I raise a point and al I get is this gloating over how leet you are ?  What does you playing well has to do with people loosing their ship early. SOMEBODY is always loosing his ship first. Obvious, isn' it ?

And quit that blabbing about the Sims, I haven't played it much before the patch, and now in the state detroyers are in are you really going to throw Sims at  me ? Really ? REALLY ?

 

[McLeod]

Sorry but none of your "advice" is anything but sugarcoated trolling. "Get better" ? The point is what happens if you*re NOT GOOD. For whatever reason. Continuing to harp about "oh you're so bad" - how do YOU know how I play ? I noticed what happens when you loose your ship early, I raise a point and al I get is this gloating over how leet you are ?  What does you playing well has to do with people loosing their ship early. SOMEBODY is always loosing his ship first. Obvious, isn' it ?

And quit that blabbing about the Sims, I haven't played it much before the patch, and now in the state detroyers are in are you really going to throw Sims at  me ? Really ? REALLY ?

 

 

Well if you lose your ship early that's either down to bad luck or bad play and if you are simply NOT GOOD as you put it, then you won't earn any money anyway.  Bad luck cannot be helped but being bad can, practise, play lower tiers to get used to the ships/classes, watch others play that do well and compare it to how you play.

 

Learn and adapt = profit.  Incompetence and whining = loss.

 

The impression I get from you is that you expect bad players to be able to make money purely because they are in a premium ship - that is just total rubbish.

 

I am by no means a great DD driver but in my Mahan tier 7 US DD I have yet to lose money, most of my games in it have been total crap and it's arguably worse than the Sims.  If people are losing money in the Sims then they really need to look at how they play as it's obviously wrong.

[rigawe]

Did you take in consideration the turn rate buff on all the BB and cruiser?

 

Since then it's harder to get a hit with torpedos. So in a way that's less damage done with yubari, gremyaschi, sims, atlanta and kitakami.

Less hit, more miss and  the credit income goes down... I'm sure it's not huge but still

[BdW_Marecc]

I don't expect bad players to be able to make money, I expect low to mid-tier premium ships not to loose money if you loose your ship early. You all say that you don't have that problem, well GOOD for you, only what are you doing here ? Except waxing over how great you do. You told me what impression you get from me. Now read all that "advice" that has been given, objectively and without prejudice, and tell me: Is there anything ON the problem about: Premium ships - stop. No permium time - stop. Early ship loss - you LOOSE money. You do not NOT earn any, you LOOSE money. I say that should be fixed. Nothing more. I explicitly said "no need to raise the reward for good games".

Whats wrong with you people ? You keep ignoring the topic, you say you can't relate to the problem, but you insist I'm wrong ? Why are you so dead set against solving a problem that, according to your own words, doesn't even concern you ?

[JapLance]

Don't take it personally, but I've checked your stats (you can check them in the WoWs site) and the only Premium ship you do decently in is Yubari, with 900+ XP per game. The rest are worse (in between 400-600) in higher tiers. That's why you feel like it's the only one that gives you money: credits are awarded in regard to your performance in battle.

 

Probably the problem is that you're playing higher tiers than your experience in the game allows. 144 battles and playig a Kitakami is a bit massochistic.  I'd suggest you play lower tiers longer (including Yubari to make credits) and get more familiar with the game, the mechanics and the maps. Better games will come naturally, and with them the XP and the credits of the Premiums.