Musashi with frustrating dispersion

[anonym_SzkioGezxc4G]

Hello there! Now I just played another game with Musashi. What matters is that I did a one on one battle with a Jean Bart. We traded salvo after salvo and ... he killed me. I will provide this table with salvos damage for a quick overview. 

 

          Musashi - Jean Bart

 

1 pen, no dmg - a fire

               no hit - 5 k 

                    8 k - 8 k 

                    4 k - 11 k 

                    8 k - 2 k 

                  11 k - 0

                    4 k - 6 k 

                    7 k - 7 k 

                    2 k - 5 k 

                    2 k - 5 k and a fire

                    kill - kill

                 46 k - 49 k 

 

I killed the JB only by an extremely lucky last salvo. The JB did more damage to me without adding the fires. What is this notorious overmatch of the 460 mm guns? Even if it is there it ain't worth a dime. 

 

It seems to me that Musashi effectiveness or should I say RNG is a pure roulette. It can not do consistent damage. The ship does a few lucky shots through the game and that's it. I remember most of the games I hit a broadside and did negligible damage which never happens with say the Kurfurst. 

 

Not to mention that because of its humongous size and slow speed it is a prime farming target for everyone. Thus the ship needs a heavy escort which ... almost never happens. Will someone please explain to me what exactly is wrong cause it isn't fun and if I want to try my luck I will through dices. 

20190821_180908_PJSB509-Musashi_28_naval_mission.wowsreplay

[ColonelPete]

The Musashi is considered too strong by some.

She gets only outperformed by the recently added Georgia.

 

[Ace42X]

29 minutes ago, Dolgorukov said:

What is this notorious overmatch of the 460 mm guns?

Only really applicable to bows, isn't it?  And even then there's a couple of outliers that seem to have bits of bow that are thick enough to bounce.  Overmatch is about defeating autobounce, not guaranteeing you can penetrate thick angled armour.

Also, what range were you fighting at?

[Tyrendian89]

sounds like someone got outplayed...

[Ace42X]

Just now, Tyrendian89 said:

sounds like someone got outplayed...

Hardly surprising, you read about the Yammy twins and hear their strengths talked up, and no-one ever mentions just how circumstantial those benefits can be.

"Great accuracy!" - players read this, try to snipe, are lucky if a max-range salvo lands a couple of good hits because of dispersion - let alone on-citadel.  Even at a nice close 12km you can get some facepalm rolls even with the Yammy's LM plugged in.
"Big calibre means they overmatch the bows of every ship!" - except for the ones they don't, and you still can get some funky richochets against other armour and weird angles.
"Good armour!" - except for the giant weakspot at the cheeks, and I am still uncertain which ships can and can't broadside her cit if I want to be choosey about who I deny cheeks / present bow to or push forward.

"Great Torp protection!" - except for the Deathstar-trench-exhaust-port below their #2 turret that gets them dev-striked, ditto for their survivability.

[ImperialAdmiral]

Yes lets buff Musashi 

[anonym_SzkioGezxc4G]

Exactly! Just like the real Musashi and sister ship Yamato didn't do anything useful in naval warfare. They were just big ships. Period. 

 

I thought about grinding the Yamato but I feel it won't be much different and not more fun to play with. 

[Migantium_Mashum]

I find that with my Musashi if I fire straight ahead my dispersion is less than firing from the side..

You lose the ability to shoot with your rearmost turret but the dispersion is definitely better...

 

@Dolgorukov Yamato isn't a bad ship by any stretch of the imagination, I have her and Musashi... go for the grind.

 

 

[KillStealBoss]

Well below 12km Musashi can blow up the JB. But sometimes RNG says no. Not only in Musashi, on JB itself too. You can't have Stalingrad accuracy on 460mm shells. 

[DFens_666]

3 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

The Musashi is considered too strong by some.

 

I agree with this one. Musashi is brokenly OP on T9 in my book.

If you cant get better salvos than 2k on the JB then you most likely aimed wrong (or you got unlucky). Ill have a look at the replay later, see whats going on there.

 

2 hours ago, Ace42X said:

"Great accuracy!" - players read this, try to snipe, are lucky if a max-range salvo lands a couple of good hits because of dispersion - let alone on-citadel.  Even at a nice close 12km you can get some facepalm rolls even with the Yammy's LM plugged in.

 

IJN BB dispersion is among the worst closerange. You simply dont want to get too close. Thats my experience in Musashi aswell. Closerange can troll you, while longrange you can get some spicy hits. Yes, even citadels, especially when others struggle do it, while Musashi/Yamato are able to do it.

2 hours ago, Ace42X said:

"Big calibre means they overmatch the bows of every ship!" - except for the ones they don't, and you still can get some funky richochets against other armour and weird angles.

Not every ship - but a lot of plating on other ships too. I dont even think its hard to remember. Even Montana/GK can bounce on TX Cruiser plating because they have 30mm, while Yamasushi can go through (some others too, but still). Then you have UK/French BBs which are free pen farm from every angle.

[WeGreedy]

1 hour ago, Dolgorukov said:

Exactly! Just like the real Musashi and sister ship Yamato didn't do anything useful in naval warfare. They were just big ships. Period.

But Montana, Kurfürst, Conqueror, Republique and Kremlin did? 

[HaachamaShipping]

3 hours ago, Ace42X said:

"Great accuracy!" - players read this, try to snipe, are lucky if a max-range salvo lands a couple of good hits because of dispersion - let alone on-citadel.  Even at a nice close 12km you can get some facepalm rolls even with the Yammy's LM plugged in.

Yamato has the accuracy with 2.1 sigma. Musashi gets 1.8, like any normal BB. One of the four things in which it is worse than Yamato (the other three being secondaries, AA and turret traverse).

[Ace42X]

24 minutes ago, Cagliostro_chan said:

Yamato has the accuracy with 2.1 sigma. Musashi gets 1.8, like any normal BB. One of the four things in which it is worse than Yamato (the other three being secondaries, AA and turret traverse).

That's good to know, and certainly the sort of thing that's going to trip up people who hear the two ships' guns being treated as interchangeable in some contexts without qualification.

[DFens_666]

4 hours ago, Dolgorukov said:

I killed the JB only by an extremely lucky last salvo. The JB did more damage to me without adding the fires. What is this notorious overmatch of the 460 mm guns? Even if it is there it ain't worth a dime. 

 

 

Ok so i watched it now, and its mostly on you aiming wrong. First few salvos, JB is reversing. You shoot at his bow, so you are lucky you hit at all (even if you dont deal any damage). Later you take lead, despite the JB already being stopped (missed again)

In the end, you keep shooting his turrets... for whatever reason. Thats why you dont get any damage. You wont get any damage if you penetrate his guns. Shoot at his bow, thats where big damage is.

Also, you showed so much broadside that he actually citadelled you (11900), and he got close to 10k salvos in your upper belt/bow because you showed too much side.

 

Aim better = more damage

Angle better = less damage received

 

Also another issue is you taking 4-5 mins to actually join the battle. That cost you like 40k HP...

[elblancogringo]

4 hours ago, Dolgorukov said:

 

It seems to me that Musashi effectiveness or should I say RNG is a pure roulette. It can not do consistent damage. The ship does a few lucky shots through the game and that's it. I remember most of the games I hit a broadside and did negligible damage which never happens with say the Kurfurst. 

Sorry mate, but if Musashi has better RNG, dispersion, sigma, effectiveness or whatever you want, it will be just a joke. This ship is already way too strong, and I believe adding 460mm guns at tier 9 is a mistake. 

[DFens_666]

Here a little help where you want to shoot angled French BBs. Ofc JB was full bow in, but just for future reference

 

 

Basicly everywhere except Belt armor, superstructure and his turrets.

[Major_Damage225]

From my experience with Mushisushi shes accurate enough, way more than tirpitz, that sayd tho, there are times when you get 7 out of nine shells hit at 20km, then there are times when the shells fart under, over and to the moon exept the target 8 km away, but well, still love that tub 

[Lolipowerr]

In this thread we complain that already OP ship doesnt do enough damage.

[thisismalacoda]

Vor 8 Stunden, Cagliostro_chan sagte:

Yamato has the accuracy with 2.1 sigma. Musashi gets 1.8, like any normal BB. One of the four things in which it is worse than Yamato (the other three being secondaries, AA and turret traverse).

Musashi actually got slightly superior secondaries - 12 vs 6 of the 155mm HE guns - while Yamato got the superior AA and more 127mm. Granted, both secondaries are garbage in the grand scheme of things.

[KillStealBoss]

9 hours ago, Cagliostro_chan said:

the other three being secondaries, AA and turret traverse).

Wut? Base turret traverse is the same on both...

[Uglesett]

1 hour ago, MacArthur92 said:

Wut? Base turret traverse is the same on both...

No.

 

Musashi still has the "old" Yamato turret traverse of 2.5 deg/sec. Yamato was buffed after the release of Musashi to 3 deg/sec.

 

Musashi has slightly better rudder shift, though (18.7 vs 22.1 sec iirc)

 

2 hours ago, thisismalacoda said:

Musashi actually got slightly superior secondaries - 12 vs 6 of the 155mm HE guns - while Yamato got the superior AA and more 127mm. Granted, both secondaries are garbage in the grand scheme of things.

The 155s aren't particularly good, though. They are slow to reload and their fire chance is a meagre 2% higher than that of the 127mm guns which is more than made up for by the latter's higher RoF. Particularly when you note that Yamato's 127mm guns have an even higher rate of fire than Musashi's (12 shots/min vs. 8)

 

Musashi's secondaries can at best be said to be situationally better in cases where the difference between 21 and 25 mm penetration is significant.

[anonym_SzkioGezxc4G]

10 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Ok so i watched it now, and its mostly on you aiming wrong. First few salvos, JB is reversing. You shoot at his bow, so you are lucky you hit at all (even if you dont deal any damage). Later you take lead, despite the JB already being stopped (missed again)

In the end, you keep shooting his turrets... for whatever reason. Thats why you dont get any damage. You wont get any damage if you penetrate his guns. Shoot at his bow, thats where big damage is.

Also, you showed so much broadside that he actually citadelled you (11900), and he got close to 10k salvos in your upper belt/bow because you showed too much side.

 

Aim better = more damage

Angle better = less damage received

 

Also another issue is you taking 4-5 mins to actually join the battle. That cost you like 40k HP...

 

Well, thank you for taking the time to watch the replay. First, aiming is hard at a greater distance cause enemy ship is at the size of the circle aim mark. 

 

Second, why would you say 4-5 mins is too much? Musashi is very slow and poorly maneuverable. Thus I shouldn't rush cause otherwise I am left alone or with insufficient escort facing greater enemy force or ... an invisible DD. I need a few minutes to see where both friend and foe are going to. 

[beercrazy]

13 minutes ago, Dolgorukov said:

 

Well, thank you for taking the time to watch the replay. First, aiming is hard at a greater distance cause enemy ship is at the size of the circle aim mark. 

 

Second, why would you say 4-5 mins is too much? Musashi is very slow and poorly maneuverable. Thus I shouldn't rush cause otherwise I am left alone or with insufficient escort facing greater enemy force or ... an invisible DD. I need a few minutes to see where both friend and foe are going to. 

i am usually the one to fire first in the game with the musashi

I instantly move towards the caps where a dd is pushing and as soon as a enemy bb or cruiser is spotted I will fire at it and this can lead to 3 great advantages at the start which are 1 instantly starting my damage dealt early in the game, 2 most enemy bbs and cruisers will fire back to reveal where the enemy ships are positioning near the cap helping our dd, 3 will force lots of radar cruisers to pull away from the cap when they know a musashi will push

the bad thing about firing early is the usual everyone and his grandmother will fire at you and you can be hit but if you plot your first salvo well while during a turn you can make hitting you a nightmare for most bbs

this early firing can easy lead to the 40k you miss out on but most likely will help your team more than anything

 

I am not the greatest player in the world but even I feel the musashi is probably the best bb in the game tier for tier

[WeGreedy]

10 hours ago, Ace42X said:

That's good to know, and certainly the sort of thing that's going to trip up people who hear the two ships' guns being treated as interchangeable in some contexts without qualification.

Sigma is yet only half of the story. Dispersion formula is still better than on most other battleships.

[FukushuNL]

15 hours ago, Dolgorukov said:

Hello there! Now I just played another game with Musashi. What matters is that I did a one on one battle with a Jean Bart. We traded salvo after salvo and ... he killed me. I will provide this table with salvos damage for a quick overview. 

 

          Musashi - Jean Bart

 

1 pen, no dmg - a fire

               no hit - 5 k 

                    8 k - 8 k 

                    4 k - 11 k 

                    8 k - 2 k 

                  11 k - 0

                    4 k - 6 k 

                    7 k - 7 k 

                    2 k - 5 k 

                    2 k - 5 k and a fire

                    kill - kill

                 46 k - 49 k 

 

I killed the JB only by an extremely lucky last salvo. The JB did more damage to me without adding the fires. What is this notorious overmatch of the 460 mm guns? Even if it is there it ain't worth a dime. 

 

It seems to me that Musashi effectiveness or should I say RNG is a pure roulette. It can not do consistent damage. The ship does a few lucky shots through the game and that's it. I remember most of the games I hit a broadside and did negligible damage which never happens with say the Kurfurst. 

 

Not to mention that because of its humongous size and slow speed it is a prime farming target for everyone. Thus the ship needs a heavy escort which ... almost never happens. Will someone please explain to me what exactly is wrong cause it isn't fun and if I want to try my luck I will through dices. 

20190821_180908_PJSB509-Musashi_28_naval_mission.wowsreplay

You both killed each other in a T9 prem vs T9 prem battle. What am I missing here?