0.8.7 AA Defense Changes

[DenmarkRadar]

Regarding planes shot down:

During an Air Strike the planes are split into 2 groups:

A. Planes Attacking the Ship.

B. Planes not Attacking the Ship.

This very easily leads to the following deduction...

 

1. No ship under Air Strike would fire at the Planes not Attacking it (Category B from above), so ANY AA should focus the Planes Attacking the Ship (Category A from above).

2. This is in fact why the Planes not taking part in the Attack (Category B) are "Immune from Damage".

3. Any Planes not committed to the Attack (Category B from above) cannot magically all of a sudden take part in the Attack (Category A from above).

4. And thus: Any planes shot down must be part of the Attack (Category A) and hence reduce the Attack on the Ship.

 

I am aware that this is controversial, but it's Logical. It is in fact the ONLY sane implementation of AA during an Attack-run on a Ship.

[cptnwhite]

On 8/23/2019 at 2:07 PM, WG_Lumberjack said:

We've receiving a lot of feedback that the previous UI regarding AA should be changed. 
I believe that current change doesn't need that many clicking. 
I understand that turning your attention towards enemy planes might be inconvenient when you are in the middle of the brawl but it was taking much more time and focus with the previous solution.

Right now you have to aim for less than a second towards enemy planes but it isn't that much that you would loos your focus/aim on the ships entirely.  

Assumed it was clear in my original post that I was referring to the system prior to 8.0 aka Ctrl+click on the squadron...but hey.

 

I m well aware the AA overlay introduced in 8.0 wasn t popular at all BUT honestly, this now is worse, esp for DDs (or to a degree fast firing cruisers with fast turning turrets).

At least the overlay used to change sectors didnt require looking around as it was a separate menu and once set you could - if you desired - leave it so that the side where u expected most planes to come from ended up being focused without further intervention.

 

Now, with an action time of only 10sof your AA, you perma have to look around (assuming the planes come from the opposite direction than the target u re shooting at) to click again which is absolutely detrimental to fast shooting ships in the middle of an engagement. Not only do the guns turn whilst looking around but you also lose focus.

 

Given that DDs suffered the most by the AA changes, I highly doubt that this could have been an intentional thing..and if so..omg.

 

I agree that the overlay system introduced in 8.0 was clunky and far from ideal but you just managed to make it worse...The Ctrl+click on squads (aka the old focus fire prior to 8.0) was far more convenient and enabled ppl to keep their focus on the actual fight.

 

[leeuwbart]

On 8/22/2019 at 9:16 PM, FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor said:

What is actually needed is a massive rocket plane nerf.

 

It is impossible to miss with these things and it is impossible for the target to dodge. Why do carriers have the godgiven right to always hit and never miss?!

 

(What's actually needed is of course the removal of carriers as a playable class but hey.)

Either you have massive luck with rocket planes or mine just sucks [edited]but when I have the smallest text with them most of the times I only hit 2 rockets for 1400 damage or non at all even tho it is perfectly aimed. 

[anonym_Wl2ej1ad8jEc]

On 8/23/2019 at 2:07 PM, WG_Lumberjack said:

I don't think calling anyone stupid or idiotic will get you anywhere. 
I understated you are passionate about the game but we can all approach each other in a more polite manner @vereybowring.

We've receiving a lot of feedback that the previous UI regarding AA should be changed. 
I believe that current change doesn't need that many clicking. 
I understand that turning your attention towards enemy planes might be inconvenient when you are in the middle of the brawl but it was taking much more time and focus with the previous solution.
 

I did not call anyone stupid in perticular, I was merely asking how I was supposed to use that stupid AA system in a brawl. 

 

When you are in a brawl there's already a multitude of things to consider, in which having to divert your attention for even a moment can mean all the difference. 

This is allso the moment that CV's usually attack, I'm sure it's not the same for every CV player but most of them will jump at the oppurtinity to farm damage on a ship that is in the middle of a brawl. They are nothing if not opportunistic in that regard. This new AA system forces you to swing your view around which in a brawl is incredibly frustrating. It allso does not help that in a brawl I'll be twisting and turning all the time and boosting the AA on one side of the ship does not help me much when that side is inevitably going to point away from the attacking aircraft. 

 

Allso.. Telling us that. "oh we know this is annoying but the previous system was way worse" does not help now does it? It's not a solution if it does not solve anything.

[KillStealBoss]

53 minutes ago, Snautzi said:

I did not call anyone stupid in perticular, I was merely asking how I was supposed to use that stupid AA system in a brawl. 

It's much easier than before 0.8.7. It's hard when your got bad mouse (I did see the difference) with poor sensitivity.

[anonym_Wl2ej1ad8jEc]

2 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

It's much easier than before 0.8.7. It's hard when your got bad mouse (I did see the difference) with poor sensitivity.

There's nothing wrong with my mouse. 

[KillStealBoss]

2 minutes ago, Snautzi said:

There's nothing wrong with my mouse. 

If you can't fast and smooth change the camera from left to right that's a problem .

[anonym_Wl2ej1ad8jEc]

33 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

If you can't fast and smooth change the camera from left to right that's a problem .

No. the problem is having to divert my attention while I'm already in a situation that requires my full attention to begin with. 

it's a clunky haphazard solution to a problem that frankly should not be there to begin with.

[KillStealBoss]

31 minutes ago, Snautzi said:

No. the problem is having to divert my attention while I'm already in a situation that requires my full attention to begin with. 

it's a clunky haphazard solution to a problem that frankly should not be there to begin with.

But in RTS times you also had to move the camera and focus the squadron. And sometimes there was multiple squads. 

[anonym_Wl2ej1ad8jEc]

8 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

But in RTS times you also had to move the camera and focus the squadron. And sometimes there was multiple squads. 

Only untill that squad was shot down or went out of range. And yes there could be multiple, I'd simply focus on the ones that could do real harm to me.

Allso. it kept track no matter what direction I was going, I did not have to switch every time I turned my ship or when a squad changed direction. Oh

and you could preselect a squad before it was ontop of you.

 

[KillStealBoss]

9 minutes ago, Snautzi said:

Only untill that squad was shot down or went out of range. And yes there could be multiple, I'd simply focus on the ones that could do real harm to me.

Allso. it kept track no matter what direction I was going, I did not have to switch every time I turned my ship or when a squad changed direction. Oh

and you could preselect a squad before it was ontop of you.

 

You'll get used to the new mechanics. Everything new is at first weird. 

[anonym_Wl2ej1ad8jEc]

10 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

You'll get used to the new mechanics. Everything new is at first weird. 

How is that an argument? I'm sure I could get used to a pebble in my shoe, that does not mean it's preferable over not having that bloody pebble there to begin with now is it?

[HussarKaz]

To be honest, the whole idea is somewhat stupid. How the ship other than DD would increase its AA firepower? Teleport AA guns from one side of the ship to another? Come on. This feature should be available exclusively for DDs. And the cooldown should be longer.

 

Lexington gameplay againist tier 10 ships (STILL most battles, in spite of the changes announcment) became extremely painful. It is almost impossible to attack twice - before the second attack the entire squadron is usually wiped out (excluding situation when you attack AA-less ship going solely, i.e. Musashi)

[FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor]

Vor 4 Stunden, leeuwbart sagte:

Either you have massive luck with rocket planes or mine just sucks

Actually, from my DD perspective, it is bad luck if anything, though luck of any kind has in fact nothing to do with it.

 

And 1400 damage is of course a massive chunk of DD which should not be guaranteed in the way it very clearly is, for all but the most unskilled / least trained CV players.

 

IOW thanks for playing.

[KillStealBoss]

1 hour ago, HussarKaz said:

Lexington gameplay againist tier 10 ships (STILL most battles, in spite of the changes announcment

You played it 20 battles in row? Cause it works like that - 8 battles against T10 and 12 against T6 or T9 MM. 

[HussarKaz]

4 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

You played it 20 battles in row? Cause it works like that - 8 battles against T10 and 12 against T6 or T9 MM. 

It counts for every ship or for player?

[KillStealBoss]

9 minutes ago, HussarKaz said:

It counts for every ship or for player?

For every ship of yours . 

It'll then reset after playing those 20 battles.

[HussarKaz]

18 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

For every ship of yours . 

It'll then reset after playing those 20 battles.

Okay, thanks for information

[xxwingerxx]

18 hours ago, MacArthur92 said:

For every ship of yours . 

It'll then reset after playing those 20 battles.

so you have to stay in the same tier ship for it to work.

just come out off a battle with twin cv's in the hindy lol please remove all aa from it and give us something usefull instead that works

[KillStealBoss]

19 minutes ago, xxwingerxx said:

so you have to stay in the same tier ship for it to work.

just come out off a battle with twin cv's in the hindy lol please remove all aa from it and give us something usefull instead that works

No not all the time or in a row . Ship MM is reseted every 20 battles, no matter if you play them today or in a week time. That's the new algorithm S_O talked about with BigPhil back in November 2018. 

[Maihon]

1) The standard AA feels much better, though I still think you could just have allocated a port and starboard key especially as you allocated two optional keys to this skill.

2) Massive AA fire, don't feel that this is really worth the points now.

3) CV's still have too many immunities, i.e. immunity frames when attacking, DCP's with 60 sec's of up time, hardly surprising that fires are nearly impossible to get, AA guns with probably the highest hit probabilities in the game(95%+), fighters, that only protect the CV and have 600 sec of up time.

4) CV's should have full manual ship control as a selectable option.

5) Other ships need ships need fighters that don't ignore the first attack from the CV's attack planes.

[cptnwhite]

 

On 8/26/2019 at 8:22 AM, cptnwhite said:

I m well aware the AA overlay introduced in 8.0 wasn t popular at all BUT honestly, this now is worse, esp for DDs (or to a degree fast firing cruisers with fast turning turrets).

At least the overlay used to change sectors didnt require looking around as it was a separate menu and once set you could - if you desired - leave it so that the side where u expected most planes to come from ended up being focused without further intervention.

 

Now, with an action time of only 10sof your AA, you perma have to look around (assuming the planes come from the opposite direction than the target u re shooting at) to click again which is absolutely detrimental to fast shooting ships in the middle of an engagement. Not only do the guns turn whilst looking around but you also lose focus.

 

On 8/28/2019 at 4:27 PM, Maihon said:

I still think you could just have allocated a port and starboard key especially as you allocated two optional keys to this skill.

<<<< THIS!!! would indeed solve the "looking around issue" described above... 2 AA sectors could be bound to the mouse or whatever keys ppl prefer, one for port, the other one for starboard.

[Danucu_Tigger]

My feelings are mixed with respect to the new AA mechanic. On one side, the big circle is gone. On the other side, it was more confortable to have the sector reinforced at the start and play accordingly. And you can't just look at the minimap and say "well, those airplanes are coming closer, I better reinforce the side most probably engaged". No. Now you really need to pay attention to the enemy planes and to know the range of the AA guns of the ship.

It isn't just "take your eyes off the target to look in the direction of enemy planes and activate sector reinforcement", but also when to activate it. Activate it too early when the squadron is out of range and you waste precious seconds. If you're unlucky enough and it's you being targeted, the attack catches you with AA on cooldown. Activate it too late and the effect is much the same.

 

In the thick of action I activated AA sector reinforcement several times on the wrong side (a couple of times being tricked by own carrier planes hitting targets nearby or by enemy catapult fighters)

 

So far, from what I've seen during my games, AA sector reinforcement ,when used right, has a decisive influence in withering down enemy squadrons. 

 

It seems to me that the new mechanic has a higher skill floor than before and might be a "global AA nerf in disguise" to appease the CV players. In battle it's easy to lose track of the enemy planes and now you have to pay special attention to the distance so that AA sector reinforcement is optimally used. If most players remember to turn it on at all, that is.

 

Considering how easy it is to waste AA sector reinforcement by bad timing, I find the value of Massive AA  4 point captain skill with its massive cooldown rather dubious.  

[MAD_3R_Marauder]

Disclaimer: I haven't actually played after the update.

 

That being said, what's the problem with having two keys, one for right side, one for left side, assigned to reinforce a sector and do away with the looking around?

One could even put bind some spare mouse-buttons to it.

[asalonen]

On 8/23/2019 at 3:07 PM, WG_Lumberjack said:

We've receiving a lot of feedback that the previous UI regarding AA should be changed. I believe that current change doesn't need that many clicking. I understand that turning your attention towards enemy planes might be inconvenient when you are in the middle of the brawl but it was taking much more time and focus with the previous solution.

The good thing with the new mechanic is that it's simple to use. However, it's possibly simple to the point that the player wonder why it couldn't be automatic. There's very rarely any target selection involved, so the player just taps O whenever planes enter AA range. Then keep repeating that, and it doesn't even help the AA that much. 

 

It's possibly a bit too much like a game of whack-a-mole forced on top of the usual gameplay:

 

What I would consider is ditching the strictly port/starboard sectors. They now feel like clunky legacy, carried over from a previous version. If there's just two possible sectors, the pointing of camera makes no sense, and instead we should have just two keys for port/starboard reinforcement. 

 

Instead, focus the AA boost exactly where the camera is pointed, so that it is strongest (and a LOT stronger) in that direction. Then have the boost taper off the further you go from that direction, to make it somewhat forgiving. It would give the player more choice, more possible reward, and more feeling of control. Yet the gameplay and boost timing could remain exactly as they are in 0.8.7.

Something like this: