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The_EURL_Guy

Submarines are Coming

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1 minute ago, The_White_Baron said:

German Subs had acoustic homing torpedoes, ladder-pattern torps and so on. So yeah homing torps was a thing in WW2.

Actually the allies had homing torpedo for aircraft for sub hunting based on acoustic noise from the propellers! The way this new homing works is active acoustic homing as the direction can be determined by the player not passive decided by the torp. Active acoustic homing didn't exist until a lot later so no they shouldn't get this tech.

 

11 minutes ago, GrossadmiralThrawn said:

homing torps were a thing in WWII... for Germany. Submarines going as fast or faster underwater than above? German (Type XXI)... in this game? FOR EVERYONE!!!...

 

tbh, i'M feeling a bit screwed over here... can the German BBs get the Russian BB main gun dispersion mechanic so they can reliably hit on short distances if all other nations get their unique submarine stuff? :Smile-_tongue:

Yeah that German sub used Hydroperoxide probably more dangerous to the crew than anyone else. But the general purpose fleet submarine wasn't anywhere near as fast. I believe if they get a detection range reduction by 50% on submerging they should get a 50% speed reduction as it like a destroyer having its detection range reduce without having to stay within the boundaries of the smoke. There no penalty thus the advantage isn't then transferred to the hunter.

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It's absolutely hilarious that the only players happy about submarines coming...

 

Are the awful ones, with terrible result, and probably not even knowing half the ingame mechanics.

 

At least that shows us who is the targeted audience.

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7 hours ago, Tanatoy said:

In the version we tried, O² was getting empty quite fast I would say, at least it seemed to me in the heat of the battle, even with bots and few humans. Which means that hide and seek game is quite like walking on a razor blade for a sub, as you do need quite a lot of time to get close enough to your target and to get away from the ennemies for being in a safe location, or it will be really easy to destroy you to replenish your oxygen. 

 

Also, to be able for your torpedoes to do more damage, you need to "ping" the ennemy ship by point in the direction were the bow or the aft of the ship will be, when the sonar wave would hit it. Which means you need to get closer, so getting more in danger of a destruction. 

 

All of this, you can see it in live gameplay right now!

 

Please remember that my impressions and what you're seeing on the gameplay is the first tests of it. And many things can change still. 

 

Thanks for your understanding,

Well I did watch that stream although she is a little grating, I think subs are going to be a very big challenge to play, and whilst watching the stream I was thinking well what would you do, surface to replenish oxygen by a rock or out on the borderlines?

Would you hang around the caps, in the caps, or sail right on through to hunt the bigger ships?

In a strange way looking forward to them, hope they work out better than the CV rework, and it was interesting to hear her say WG had made mistakes with that.

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[NSEC]
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NONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

Years have passed and you still haven't figured out carriers so let's introduce something else sure to be broken.

Sonar sees through island and spots enemy ship....broken

what now, a torpedo that steers around island into the enemy ship?.....broken before it even begins

Will they get radar on their periscope too?

Between being permaspotted by aircraft and having to contend with multiple radar sources per battle now you want

to shoulder the responsibility of taking out subs to the already overworked and under-appreciated DD's?

Who will cap and spot enemy fleet now?  Oh yeah, no one, too many islands need to be anchored in place using my ship hull.

Will you listen to players?  Of course not. you will just do it anyway and kill this game like you've murdered WOT

 

Oh yeah, before you introduce subs, how about some more OP premium ships that are stupidly expensive that only 

long time players can afford and that are better than mainstream ships in nearly every area.  That always helps

kill the game too.

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This is ridiculous.

 

Dived submarines that can't be detected by hydroacoustic search.

25-30 kts?

Homing torpedoes that dive under torpedo protection.

 

Seriously this is just crazy.

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3 minutes ago, Asureas said:

This is ridiculous.

 

Dived submarines that can't be detected by hydroacoustic search.

25-30 kts?

Homing torpedoes that dive under torpedo protection.

 

Seriously this is just crazy.

well, the torpedoes hitting underneath the torpedo protection isn't that crazy. Germany for example had some torpedoes with a setting that would cause them to blow up underneath the ship rather than after hitting it. Nasty.

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7 minutes ago, Asureas said:

This is ridiculous.

 

Dived submarines that can't be detected by hydroacoustic search.

25-30 kts?

Homing torpedoes that dive under torpedo protection.

 

Seriously this is just crazy.

The Hydro-consumable  cant detect submarines, but there is another kind of passive-hydro. If this bother you too much, you could maybe request to remove the Hydro-comsumable

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Submarines will destroy this games unless you can give us a successful weapon against them. I am a 74 year old retired Naval Captain. Your Support Team is evolving into an excellent department of these games. I am not so impressed with your R & D Department. I truly hope this wont upset us all as many choices here have in the past. Good Luck! Bert_the_Cosh

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2 minutes ago, GrossadmiralThrawn said:

well, the torpedoes hitting underneath the torpedo protection isn't that crazy. Germany for example had some torpedoes with a setting that would cause them to blow up underneath the ship rather than after hitting it. Nasty.

 

All Navies allowed you to set the depth at which a torpedo would run - and you could run them deep enough to run directly under the ship where the magnetic exploder would cause it to detonate. However even then it was unusual for the torpedo to detonate *directly* under the ship and bypass the torpedo protection. The only example I can recal is Ark Royal, which was probably a malfunction of the torpedo and a lucky hit on the keel.

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"...distance of 2 kilometers or closer..."

In the last Year's event when we tried the subs, i was proxy spotted, if a ship was in my detection range (looking to the minimap), no matter how deep i was... It is a bit unrealistic... I would like to get a bubble effect (rather than a top-down view measurement) if we go really 3d....

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It's nice to see that we're getting subs, it will certainly change the gameplay and hopefully for the better. I'm sure all those campers will feel uneasy with these boats sneaking around. As for countermeasures against them it would be nice to see you give the British and US destroyers the Hedgehog anti submarine mortars. These were fired forward and had contact fuses instead of the timed fuses on the depth charges.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedgehog_(weapon)

 

But in all seriousness! The guided torpedoes are a bit over the top here and if you are serious about implementing that it should ONLY be on the top 2 tiers and in my honest opinion you should give the guided torpedoes a 30 degree cone in front of them with a 400 m range, if a ship enter that cone the torpedo will guide itself to the target, that is, if the target is moving, meaning the propellers are spinning. You should also give the sub the ability to change running depths for the torpedoes before they are launched instead of being able to change the running depth on the fly. As for torpedoes in general, they need a serious rework. You should make torpedo detection ranges the same standard for all nations depending on how deep they run. As an example, a shallow running torp can be seen 1.5 km away, a medium depth runner can be seen from 800 meters and the deep runners can't be seen at all, unless you have the sonar consumable activated.

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[ASEXO]
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Yes, I like to have those subs!

 

As active DD player I see some problems: while hunting a sub with my DD, am I spotted by sub? Yes, the 2 km proxy. But important question: can sub announce my position to other players on sub side while submerged? If so, DD is just a sitting duck to enemy cruisers and will be wiped out in seconds...

My solution: only surfaced submarines can announce DD position.

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I got a book About soviet Navy, so here is some data About the S-189 premium boat:

 

Project 613, NATO: "Whiskey-Class"

 

Project started in 1948, influenced by german Type XXI submarine

 

215 Boats built

1050 tons surfaced, 1347 tons submerged

lenght 76m

wide 6.3 m

Crew 52

2 diesel engines 2000hp each

2 Electric drives 1350hp each

2 propellers

Speed 18kts surfaced, 13 kts submerged

dive Depth 200 m

6 Torpedo tubes 533mm

 

S-189 is still existing. Its a Museum in St. Petersburg.

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[HEDEF]
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13 saat önce, powerverde dedi:

Submarines are relatively slow. Their speed on the surface is a mere 25–30 knots; at periscope depth their speed is reduced further. When underwater, submarines will be able to cruise at the same speed as when at surface level.

 

what is this joke?

U-boat techs:

Speed:
  • 17.7 knots (32.8 km/h; 20.4 mph) surfaced[1]
  • 7.6 knots (14.1 km/h; 8.7 mph) submerged[1]

 

But here we'll have submarines underwater as fast as surface ships???

 

I-201 submerged Approx speed: 20knot yes submerged speed

At least the information for this submarine is correct.
I think it would be the same speed on both surface and water.

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Oh dear, you went ahead and did it, despite always saying you wouldn't.

 

 

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So as a BB and Cruiser player, well since CV's are now wrecked, and totally unplayable, i dont want more control with a CV, i liked how it was before. Now you will just get in 12 ( 6 subs, 5dd's, 1 cruiser) whats the point of using a BB as not only DD's but now Subs will join the OP CV dive bombers. Should it be a disease like HE SPAMMing is, i shall stop playing this game, you will lose the bulk of who play and pay using this game, People who love Battleships and heavy cruisers. Thats what we log on for. The surface fleet need more than what your offering, for example every ship is able to create smoke, but in this game you use it as a perk, so how did BB's like the Bismarck and the Hood cover themselves in Smoke and evade fire? Magic? No, but to the point at 1st you must make them more useless than OP, like everything new in the game its always OP, I see you have no British Subs, yet Russians didnt even have a navy proper till after WW2, What happened to Pan-EU Surface ships? What happened to more balancing? Instead of fixing things like Servers so you dont have downtime and refund us rubbish like 4 flags.  I am venting here because im tired of rubbish. I always have premium spend a good deal of money on premium ships. Yet somehow us core people go unnoticed, for the rapid child players who want it faster, like a call of duty game. 

Face Facts, in the battle of the atlantic, with long distance airplanes with sonar drops, and radar on ALL BRITISH & US ships, since ITs a british Invention. Its not enough that a sub cant be detected if they go deep, they need to be detected no matter what. Whats the point of Radar if you cant spot? By the year 1943 Germany lost the battle of the Atlantic, which allowed Americans to come across for the 2nd front for D-Day,  Admiral Doenitz said that was the factor of winning the 2nd world war, but what does a Fleet Admiral know who loved Subs. So with most newer ships coming out after 1943 especially the paper Russian line, its unfair for Subs to be undetected. 

Should they go into the game good and proper after you said they wouldnt be in the game whatsover, and in clan wars, i will stop playing, and close my T10 clan of 50 members. Then take matters through under advice of a solicitor, For loss of money, time, and energy. 

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Finally it is coming, but I guess it will take 2 more years MINIMUM so that they can be introduced in the live server, then why do people complain so much like they will release it tomorrow??? 

I think the best choice with the submarines is that you, wg, should just fix other problems in the game, like the CV....... and then do with the submarines, since I think that the idea of doing even tiers for subs just like CV is bad it will end up with the same story as with the carriers just stop that, we want all tiers ( from 6, to 7 to 8 to 9 to 10 please!) It makes no sense to skip tiers, what a dumb idea.

 

By this way people progress MUCH FASTER THAN THEY LEARN ON THEIR WAY UP TO THE TOP.

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I myself have always been interested in submarines, build models, read books in the library etc etc as a kid.

 

I do want and like the idea of submarines in the game.

 

BUT the way WG seems to go about them at least in the beginning seems flawed.

 

SPEED

I have no problem with submarines being a "bit" faster then what would be realistic, nothing realistic about the game but submerged speed should always be less then surface speed unless the submarine actually was capable of the same or grater submerge speed.

 

Also I dont think reported speed and actual speed in game has to be the same.

An example could be a submarine that did 20kts surface and 8kts submerge, it could report 8kts in the game submerged but do 1/2 of the surface in practice, who could rely tell?

It will still be half as fast, but not painfully slow, the psychological effect of it reporting 8kts as being in a tactical disadvantageous situation will be there but it will still cover 20% more distance then if the speed reported was actually correct.

The game is not to scale as it is now so I dont see a problem bending the rules a bit.

 

HOMING TORPEDOS

 

I just dont know how they came up whit this idea.

Its all out bad, fine there where SOME homing torpedoes, 99% where dumb torpedoes with a gyro to set its heading.

I would much rater see a bigger firing ark to reflect the fact that most submarines could fire a torpedo and have it go of in any direction thanks to the gyro.

The other ship classes dont have homing topredos so I dont see why submarines needs it, we can aim, the game dont need to aim for us.

 

Also the sonar pings seems to be there to some how balance the game so the opponent knows they are targeted.

Well in reality firing a torpedo is the noisiest thing a submarine can do.

Most submarines fired there torpedoes using compressed air, later once used a more silent system pushing it out with water from what I read, early British Hunter Killers where refitted with that later in the war hunting german u-boats.

So in my view the submarines should have a BLOOM effect just like surface ships have with there guns.

Fire your torpedoes whit a  ship the bloom radius of your tubes then they should have your location for the next 20 sec.

A good captain could fire his torpedoes outside of his torp range and if the target is heading for the torpedos he could score a hit with never being seen.

But if you get close and personal the enemy will know you are there as soon as you fire but if your close enough, well they might not be able to react in time.

In effect the sonar pings are an unnecessary addition, we need skill based gameplay not automation and tact on balancing.

Bloom for submarines could be less then the torpedo range to, basically stealth firing all over again but it might be needed for balancing.

 

DEAPTHCHARGES

 

Well the only real complain is that I think they should be manually fired, like any other weapon.

Secondary guns for example are fun but only to a limited extent, a game is about the player having control, not the game.

Also once you have detected a submarine you should be able to see it trough the water for aiming purposes.

 

O2

 

Running out of Oxygen is possible in a submarine but assuming its actually under way it will run out of battery's sooner then O2.

Battery charge is what should be measured and how fast its used should depend on the speed the submarine is travelling at.

The faster the more electricity is used and the drain should be exponential so flank speed will drain it very very fast.

 

O2 could be used as a anti-camping solution, so people dont just sit AFK underwater forever or basically do the equivalent of boarder surfing.

But O2 should last much longer then battery so for any normal gameplay O2 would never rely matter much.

 

At surface O2 could be replenished faster but Battery much slower, recharging battery's should go a little bit faster at slow surface speed vs higher surface speeds.

 

DETECTION

 

I think submarines should be proximity detected at 2km like any other ship, just to make it more viable to hunt them.

Any Destroyer or Cruiser should be able to hunt submarines and also CV's but CV planes should only be able to spot them on the surface.

The CV should be able to use the bomber squadron to drop depth charges so if a submarine is spotted by other means, proximity to another ship, sonar or other mechanic it should be able to exploit that.

 

Also submarines detection range should obviously be less submerged, 50% as WG sad at periscope depth BUT I also think detection should be determined by speed.

The higher the speed, 1/4, 1/2 etc should determine the detection range submerged.

 

So not only will torpedo tubes bloom increase detection range but also speed should effect it.

 

Im not sure how radar works on a submarine at periscope depth but radar should detect the submarine then making them vulnerable to radar even at periscope depth.

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Im looking forward to submarines in WoWS and I think its good that WG is looking at them, but I do hope they do more research and development and think there implementations trough.

The current torpedo implementation is probably the biggest problem I see and after that the underwater speed and O2 or lack of battery charge.

 

Well I hope WG sorts it out the next 12 months and the final product is top notch!

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GUYS, I SEE MY PREDICTIONS ABOUT SUBS WERE VERY VERY CLOSE (i predicted this on forum already on 2.7.2019!!!).

 

VERY NICE WG! SO NOW I CAN SAY WARGAMING IS FINALLY LISTENING TO ME (PLAYERS)! :cap_cool:

 

(hire me to be a submarine tester, please) :cap_look:

On 7/2/2019 at 7:45 PM, Zlovenia1 said:

i guess probably in september as the presentation goes...and i think subs will be available like CVs only at tiers 4,6,8 and 10 and ofcourse some premimum subs which can stay submerged for longer time than ordinary ones and have better sonar dettection protection etc ... well... i can hardly wait to become captain on a submarine ( i just wish they will make a slow paced game for submarines so you can exprerience a "silent hunter feeling"...preparing to hunt the ship down in perfect position - i mean more strategic positioning approach rather with less torpedo hits in a game than too much... not like carriers that can only attack, attack, attack...but like every torpedo will be hard to hit but when it will hit you would be rewarded more.

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[GLOBS]
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So we Don't get the OMG moments like the CV rework we all need to be in the testing . to make sure our game is how we want it . WG do what they can, the rest is up to us , to test and report . so lets grab this by the tail and support WG and our game . I love this game and don't want to loose it . 

I am up for the testing WG . . Lets Do This  :Smile_honoring:

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nice, it will be fun to go and flank all the snipers with handbrakes on, make them run.... camp is over    lol

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[INTRO]
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Mark my words. Introduction of submarines will be the beginning of the end of WoWs. They will become the balance nightmare.

Submarines will affect the gameplay so much, that the game will never recover.

If you think that CVs have ever been a problem, come back read my post about a year from now. You will think: "Oh, how I miss those subtle imbalances from 2019 and before, CVs positioning in the game meta, etc. It was such nice game before."

 

A nail in the coffin, the ultimate mistake from WG side.

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