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Submarines are Coming

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1 minute ago, Original_JagdHamster said:

Why is the aircraft spotting range so low? Aircraft are far more effective at spotting surfaced submarines than ships.

I totally agree as it is you have to be on top of a DD to spot it and thus on the first pass cannot attack. If the detection range is smaller on subs there going to be invisible from the air. The whole point is at the moment every ship can fight every ship. Okay carrier maybe not so but sub completely destroy that sort of game play.

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35 minutes ago, Original_JagdHamster said:

Why is the aircraft spotting range so low? Aircraft are far more effective at spotting surfaced submarines than ships.

and ships...

but in the game is reverse! I cant understand why. The tremendous effort of the navy to have airplanes on ship was just for recon!

If  a spoted ship was in the minimap only, the spot airplanes will have a place in the game.

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For the love of god is the community made of Crybabies or are these BB elitist who think a BB is a long range sniper sitting preferably in the next map? 

 

First: Subs dont get  rushed in like the CV rework, they will be tested until they fit in the current gameplay.

Secondly: The NTC was a bad idea and the developers understood the backlash something others Devs dont understand "cough" WoT and Gayjin "cough"

So while Destroyers be the first class of anti submarine Warfare equipped ships i think if this is not enough WG will add the cruiser to it too, cause i think some cruisers where equipped with depth charges too

 

I realy can only shake my head in disbelief than i hear: "i leave that game when subs get released"

I mean play Warthunder there is so much more wrong than here. Devs ignore the community even go so far to delete comments on levestreams where valid questions where asked, The games is went to sell you as much premium vehicles as possible while game mechanics are partially broken but no cares to fix them also the state of Naval forces is only sad. 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, orlathebeast said:

we have months, if not a full year ahead before this things hit randos. i'm quite sure we will have all the time to polish and smooth the experience for everyone, subs, DDs and all the rest. this is not gonna be like the CV REEEEwork.

I think Wargaming have done an internal review using an endoscope and decided the model they are using for WoT and WoWs isn't sustainable in the longer term. So instead they are going for player burnout in both games, milking as much as possible as quickly as possible. It may take another three or four years to work through before the game losses so many players it isn't sustainable.

 

If in doubt answer this for yourself 'if submarines are being introduced now, alongside new tech trees, even more rapidly appearing Premium ships, more and more overlapping events, what is left for the future?'

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From what I've seen(iChase's video) DDs are the only counter to subs, but their ability to hunt subs actively is pretty much nonexistent.

 

Depth charges being automatic makes sense, but waiting for a circle to pop before you can actively engage in a fight seems like a bad idea. I think DDs should have a "ping" ability that can work just like radar and give the position of subs for a very short duration allowing a DD to take initiative, instead of waiting for a sub to do a mistake.

 

I don't know how they will play, but what is stopping a sub from kiting at max range and spamming homing torps?

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In all honesty, this sounds horrible. Extra extra extra horrible.... :cap_horn:

 

First: Speed and guided torpedoes, this goes to modern nuclear subs level. Surface speed should be 20 knots, or at most 25 knots if we give "balance bonus". Subs should not be able to out run (or catch) other ships (perhaps apart from slow US BB's). Submerged speed should be 10 knots, or 15 with "balance bonus", not 25-30 knots. 25-30 knots is not "relatively slow" or "a mere 25-30", not on surface and definitely not submerged. This is same as giving carriers modern jet's with missiles and guided bombs. It has no place in this game, in my opinion.

 

 

Submarines will already make life of destroyers harder. Currently DD's can trust to out spot everything else than other destroyers, unless there happens to be nasty carrier in battle. Now presence of sub makes thing harder and just by being in battle passively subs can keep DD spotted for rest of the team and that won't go well for the DD.

 

Same time DD's should be actively hunting subs, because they are only ships capable of doing that. Except DD's are already overburdened with tasks and doing sub hunting in front of 2-4 enemy surface ships will be pretty hard. With 25-30 knots speed subs can easily get under cover of friendly ships if enemy DD is approaching. Good luck trying to get within 4-5 km from sub when DD's speed advantage is between 5-15 knots.

 

 

I fear subs will be massively overpowered. In the end it all depends how long does it take dive or surface, how long they can stay underwater, how fast air is filled etc. but I have very bad feeling about this. 

 

Also one possible point of braking game is hydrophone. Depending how long those "long, medium and short" end to be this could be super effective "radio location". In worst case sub could check unseen enemy directions and even general idea of the range and then communicate that information to their team. Not to mention having subs totally invisible for surface ships when "deep underwater" sounds very bad if that sub can even cross 2km automatic detection range (because we already can see ships through mountains etc., so why not when it's passing below the ship?). Shouldn't at least hydroacoustic search be able to spot subs?

 

 

 

Even if subs wouldn't be massively overpowered they have such an amount of mechanics and gimmicks that I see it very likely that in hands of good players subs will become untouchable terror machines. Such players know to keep close enough to support when needed, hunt when having openings,  surface for air next to BB when he has shot and is reloading, have generally good understanding of spotting and safe ranges, know when use "Maximum depth" for total invulnerability etc. Same time normal players will get punished hard for single mistakes and tomatoes sail to their depths in first encounter.

 

Lets say that I see another round of "Carrier rework" coming where good players know how to sling shot and how to dodge flak bursts and know when to retreat hardly losing planes while doing lot of damage meanwhile bad/average players are wiped from the sky with little done. This sub thing smells the same, and it ain't nice.

 

 

 

Please, keep subs only for separate game mode and _never_ introduce them to random battles. If subs are "historical" they will be underpowered. If you make them competitive it will break immersion much more than paper BB's or imaginary reworks (that already should be kept to minimum). Even if somehow balanced (in general level) it will be devastating to game meta and most likely have much worse consequences than already several times failed carrier rework that doesn't work and can't find balance in effectiveness and fun between different skill levels. 

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3 minutes ago, Gnomus said:

...

thousand times this !

thx !

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Ez már túl sok egy egyszerű játékosnak.... sajnálok minden eddigi percet amit ezzel a játékkal eltöltöttem :/

 

That's too much for a simple player .... I'm sorry for every minute I've spent with this game: /

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BEAUTIFUL! THANK YOU WARGAMING... AT LEAST SOME VERY GOOD NEWS FROM YOU! 

 

I guess CHRISTMASS CAME EARLY.. IN FACT THIS SUMMER :cap_like:

 

Reading news that subs are coming into a game and a little tactical and gameplay explainations...makes me feel i am already playing them :cap_win:

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I am looking forward to testing the subs, but I really can not see how they will fit in, all it takes is a pair working together to speed up behind an enemy and unleash havoc. couple of points I have as a complaint is

 

Submarine Speed - I was hoping WG was going to try and stick to realistic stats for this addition

Anti Sub Gaming - I'm sure some cruisers had depth charges aswell, air detection should be higher

Homing Torps - ................................... wtf are you kidding

 

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4 hours ago, Tanatoy said:

Hi guys,

 

For having trying it, in the really early stage of gameplay, being able to "ping" your torpedoes is not as easy as it seems. It does need obviously a lot of testing and time to make it right, and we will be happy to do this as said previously, carefully and in different stages where you'll be able to try it.

YES! BEUTIFUL! I AM so happy that this game is becoming MORE COMPLEX as it was lateley! 

 

I found this video:

BEAUTIFUL HUNTING OF SUB WITH DEPTH CHARGES! THIS IS IT! I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!! (starts 8:15)

 

 

 

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If u add Submarines ,let the have own game mode, please don't put them in random battles. WG posted something like '' We made a mistake by adding CV in the game'' .... Only 5% of player base has bean vocal about Submarines, imagine what will happen if they add in random game. :)

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Please add subs as fast as possible to the Random Match mode :D

I like the double ping mechanic and the DD depth charges - Yummieeeee !

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Wuuhuuu!

 

F uy ck ya! That is so damn cool! Finally!

 

:)

 

PS. pls remember to fix the rudder bug you have introduced in your new island collision detection system you made around 100 days ago now .. and yes its when we have collision detection turned off, the problem arise and our rudder goes haywire .. we still cant steer our ships properly .......

 

Cheers! and wow subs! lol!

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kinda amusing, that all Submarines have "target seeking" Torpedoes and a high underwater speed... you could argue that either or both could've been German flavor, due to Type XXIs being the first Submarines actually designed to operate underwater for a longer period and the G7 Zaunkönig Torpedo/GNAT

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It looks fun and feasable for the game design!

 

Tbh looking forward to trying it out and I hope I get that chance ASAP! 

:cap_cool:

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Two initial impression gripes, like many im not a fan of the homing torps but i'll give them the benefit of the doubt, but why oh why are the subs going at 25-30knts with oxygen extension consumables.

This is gonna be just like having a second smoke meta in the game that is just going to make killing them intensely frustrating if your DDs survive to hunt them and make an even worse case of game over for the team with no DDs left than it already is. I really hope it won't but this has the potential to kill the player base quite fast. I guess what I'm trying to say is WG take your time and really make sure you implement it well.

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6 hours ago, zeeschuimer said:

Pffeew...quite a thing here. Destroyers will become more important now instead of being forced to cap.

Ahh...capping. Subs are ghoing to cap as well? Interesting.

Shoot ships under water with HE? That is complete nonsense.

HE bursts as soon as its fuze detects the surface.

So depth charges? Now what about the weapons like the limbo AS mortar on HMS Daring or the launchers on the upcoming dutch DD?

I don't know what is meant with 'homing torpedoes in one of the previous comments, but torpedoes in the days this game plays didn't exist, as far as my knowledge goes.

So the game will change to World of Submarine hunting, as battleships and submarines will now turn into high value targets (HVT's).

The only thing they can do is launch spotter planes.

 

 

German Subs had acoustic homing torpedoes, ladder-pattern torps and so on. So yeah homing torps was a thing in WW2.

 

This submarine announcement is GREAT news. The biggest criers seem to be the anti-DD crowd who have radar? I know that since the radar came along DDs have been royally shafted when it comes to the capture orientated gameplay. This submarine dynamic will really shake things up and get the playing field level once and for all hopefully. :)

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OK I have made his sort of suggestion in the past and been ignored but here goes again. 

 

Introduce an Opt In/Out option for Submarines let the community decide if they want to play with submarines or not.

 

At the moment what you have said is sheer insanity: Back breaking torpedoes, Homing Torpedoes, Nuclear Submarine Speeds and "Underwater—ships cannot detect a submarine in standard ways (including through the use of any consumable). However, in this position, a submarine can be detected by another submarine in periscope depth and underwater position at a distance of 2 kilometers or closer." So Sonar can't detect a submerged Submarine!!!!!! FFS

 

I appreciate the Battle of the Atlantic didn't get a lot of attention in the USSR and I fully understand why. Hunter Killer Submarines are a recent invention Corvettes and Destroyers killed Submarines and Submarines primarily targeted merchant ships, they didn't have homing torpedoes and they didn't need them they were completely blind underwater and the biggest threat they faced was as others have said "Planes". 

 

I know I know this is an Arcade game not a simulator and if it was a simulator if would be World of Aircraft Carriers after Tier 5.

 

I played the Halloween Special with Submarines a lot and they were so unbalanced it was untrue but that was fine we were against Bots if you expect PvP with Submarines you need to make it so non Submarine Players can kill Submarines!

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4 minutes ago, The_White_Baron said:

German Subs had acoustic homing torpedoes, ladder-pattern torps and so on. So yeah homing torps was a thing in WW2.

 

This submarine announcement is GREAT news. The biggest criers seem to be the anti-DD crowd who have radar? I know that since the radar came along DDs have been royally shafted when it comes to the capture orientated gameplay. This submarine dynamic will really shake things up and get the playing field level once and for all hopefully. :)

homing torps were a thing in WWII... for Germany. Submarines going as fast or faster underwater than above? German (Type XXI)... in this game? FOR EVERYONE!!!...

 

tbh, i'M feeling a bit screwed over here... can the German BBs get the Russian BB main gun dispersion mechanic so they can reliably hit on short distances if all other nations get their unique submarine stuff? :Smile-_tongue:

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4 minutes ago, GrossadmiralThrawn said:

tbh, i'M feeling a bit screwed over here... can the German BBs get the Russian BB main gun dispersion mechanic so they can reliably hit on short distances if all other nations get their unique submarine stuff? :Smile-_tongue:

TBH my dude, having some speedy subs isn't that big a deal. We need to get over 'realism' or the entire game should be recoded and redone into a simulator mode and scrap all the other stuff that is arcadey. We have radar that pokes through solid landmass and rocky mountains. Ballistic differences in nations that beggar belief and blind-firing over islands etc.

 

You can't have it both ways basically.

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On the here discussed topic if WoWs is an arcade game with the here discussed submarine ideas.

"Realism" vs Arcade Games ( WoWs ) - Aircraft science example.

One can watch it and compare with the WoWs content, to judge the grade of WoWs "Arcade-ness".

 

One can see how ramming works in WoWs, another example to judge the grade of the games "Realism".

Great fun for the rammer :D

 

 

 

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