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Captain_Ktosiek

Damageable Radar idea

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Hello

 

I know everyone have a best idea for game changes and new features, but here's my idea for developers:

 

1. - How about making radar not a consumable, but a ship module.

Maybe constantly working, but damagable (fragile). 

 

EDIT: or

2. - what was an original idea - radar still being consumable, not constantly working - but still, able to be "shut off" and damaged for the rest of a battle (just as Defensive Fire is, when there's no longer AA mounts on deck)

 

Currently we have a lot of ships which historically were using radar (most american battleships, cruisers, russian cruisers, british cruiser, other nations too), but from obvious reasons, so many ships with radar would break the game balance (khem...). But do really? 

 

Radars were very fragile devices, so...

 

How about adding to most ships a radar as a continually (maybe?) working, damagable module - just like AA guns - mounted on the top of ships bridge/tower (and by so, hard to precisly hit).

Not a perma-living consumable as it is now. Of course, it would massivly change the battle course (for destroyers and CAs only, mostly no effect for BBs), making DD lives hard at start (so no rushing to cap - as it happens at high tier now with consumable radar) - but waaaayy easier and focused at mid and late game, when the most ships got their modules broken.

This way spotted ship would no longer be helpless, and forced to run away for 30secs every time enemy get him spotted with consumable radar. 

Got spotted? Get your chance to find and destroy what's spotting you. 

 

For example: 

  • DD got spotted, but over distance overruns BB's radar with gunfire, radar (having health pool of about 500-1500 HP) got broken, DD soon get covered again, but to the end of the battle BB is unable to use her radar.   

 

Of course more balance would be needed (lower concealment for DDs?) , but way is open for more complexity:

- changed tactic for battles, ranked and clan battles

- ships specialized for radar (longer range, durable module, low concealment but poor gunfire - mostly for selfdefence) and able to gain more exp for detecting. 

- shipsetting with new upgrades  - better radar instead of better guns/AA

 

And, at top of all, for balance - reduce shot bloom duration for DDs and CAs (of 20s now, this should differ for ship classes).. 

 

For any language mistakes I'm sorry, my english is no longer as good as it used to be few years ago. 

 

Enjoy, let's discuss (no hate allowed). 

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Would completely destroy the entire destroyer class and many light cruisers along with it. Radar is already severely overpowered against destroyers, which is why you only get limited uses, with a long cooldown and a short duration. Having a perma-radar completely nullifies the whole concept of concealment other than in DD vs DD warfare. 

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But DD'd be able to ensure no further detection by focusing on destroying radars from high distance, and thus way, not being all the time, to the end of the battle in danger of enemy using consumable radar. 

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Continuous radar is really a bad idea. But damagable one? Can be something from it . 

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4 minutes ago, Captain_Ktosiek said:

But DD'd be able to ensure no further detection by focusing on destroying radars from high distance, and thus way, not being all the time, to the end of the battle in danger of enemy using consumable radar. 

Uhuh. By the time a Shimakaze would have scored 1 hit on a Minotaurs radar tower, the Minotaur would kill the Shimakaze. 

Only way of balancing that is if 1 single hit to the ship immediately takes out the radar, regardless of whether damage is done, AND the after shot bloom goes back to 5s instead of 20s. 

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Hmmm, yeah, then not a continous, but still a damageable, that was the original idea, though, both versions worth considering maybe?

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6 minutes ago, Isoruku_Yamamoto said:

Uhuh. By the time a Shimakaze would have scored 1 hit on a Minotaurs radar tower, the Minotaur would kill the Shimakaze. 

Only way of balancing that is if 1 single hit to the ship immediately takes out the radar, regardless of whether damage is done, AND the after shot bloom goes back to 5s instead of 20s. 

Well, this still happens and actually Shima would not even score 1 hit, cos for what? 

(Edited first post for the second idea, of radar being damagable consumable, huh) 

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27 minutes ago, Captain_Ktosiek said:

Hmmm, yeah, then not a continous, but still a damageable, that was the original idea, though, both versions worth considering maybe?

Just one.

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actually, i have had the same idea of radar and not just radar damageable and repairable. also sonar, smoke generator etc

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2 minutes ago, hellhound666 said:

actually, i have had the same idea of radar and not just radar damageable and repairable. also sonar, smoke generator etc

Ye, that's a good point. :cap_like: 

 

Module damages mechanic (especially main gun damage) is not as widely used as it could be. Moar damages, moar. More destroyed guns. Let our ships really be crippled at the end of the battle. :cap_rambo:

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13 minutes ago, Captain_Ktosiek said:

Module damages mechanic (especially main gun damage) is not as widely used as it could be. Moar damages, moar. More destroyed guns. Let our ships really be crippled at the end of the battle. 

This might be interesting at first but think about this: after one salvo from a Worchester to a DD passing by that DD player can just be afk if he did not sink. And I really do not like the DDivas.

Lets just assume WG put radars on all ships that can support that module(Cruisers/BBs), players will abuse this from the first day: you will see Kremlins and "hug island CLs" just sitting behind huge islands with their radars open to spot the caps and not risking the lose of modules. DDs will never get close to caps and maybe try to flank and torp those hug islanders.

The game will became even more static than it is right now at high tier.

Bonus point: all DDivas will rage and complain if this will even be taken in consideration.

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4 minutes ago, VanD4rk said:

This might be interesting at first but think about this: after one salvo from a Worchester to a DD passing by that DD player can just be afk if he did not sink. And I really do not like the DDivas.

Lets just assume WG put radars on all ships that can support that module(Cruisers/BBs), players will abuse this from the first day: you will see Kremlins and "hug island CLs" just sitting behind huge islands with their radars open to spot the caps and not risking the lose of modules. DDs will never get close to caps and maybe try to flank and torp those hug islanders.

The game will became even more static than it is right now at high tier.

Bonus point: all DDivas will rage and complain if this will even be taken in consideration.

 

Imho, this actually happens - at DD you just never know when you'd get caught with your pants off, when this Worcester activates radar when you're inside the range. 

 

But yes, real issue is spotting from behind islands - thus this I think should be limited by islands just like optical spotting

 

The last point is actually quite funny. :cap_haloween:

#BBorgTeam

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2 minutes ago, Captain_Ktosiek said:

But yes, real issue is spotting from behind islands - thus this I think should be limited by islands just like optical spotting

Or how WG balance things they will make Ocean the only map available - > no more hug islanders !:cap_horn:

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7 minutes ago, VanD4rk said:

Or how WG balance things they will make Ocean the only map available - > no more hug islanders !:cap_horn:

Well, at least this would give us some feeling of a real sea battle, not just some cover-shooter peekaboo:fish_viking:

:Smile_teethhappy:

 

P.S. Curved Horizon please! 

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14 hours ago, Captain_Ktosiek said:

 

 

P.S. Curved Horizon please! 

I think that the concealment system is supposed to mimic curved horizon(but is that even possible?)

would actually give an advantage to IJN BB cause pagoda superstructure 

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This has been discussed actually.

Official answer is no.

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16 hours ago, Captain_Ktosiek said:

P.S. Curved Horizon please!  

 

Its already in the game. Different ships have different drawing distance: Lets say 20 km from you in a DD is a Yamato spotted. You can see it on the minimap, but it isnt rendered in bino-view if you look in that direction. However 2 Yamatos can just see and shoot fine at each other. You can improve this distance with the acquisition mod - which nobody uses.

 

That being said: A lookout that is 30 m high can already spot something (lets say mast of a DD) that is 10 m high over 30 km away - if my math is correct. Thats already exceeding combat distances in this game. Then you add things like atmospheric refraction, smoke plumes or facts like gunfire being visible from beyond the horizon - especially at night or bad/dark conditions ........ and so on. Not to mention that you can just use a plane and spot the splashes beyond and shipborne spotters ability.

 

I also cant remember by which factor distances in the game are compressed, however.

 

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1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

This has been discussed actually.

Official answer is no.

Official? Do you have a link?

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3 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

Official? Do you have a link?

 

I probably would have to dig for hours. Was in one of the reddit Q&A's in the same vein as islands blocking radar I believe. Devs don't want to "overcomplicate" the game.

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Give everybody radar but it lights their own ship up on the map; RDF was a thing for everyone.

Plus the CVs can now launch Wild Weasel missions and DDs can have HARM......:cap_popcorn:

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2 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

I probably would have to dig for hours. Was in one of the reddit Q&A's in the same vein as islands blocking radar I believe. Devs don't want to "overcomplicate" the game.

Hmm but that island blocking isn't hard to do and it's not "overcomplicating" one (lol) in comparison to the damageble radar. It's long time to implement it cause it needs rework of islands (yay another reeeeework) but it's not complicated. 

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@OP To make radar "always on" thing it would require 3 things to change

 

1. Not going through landmasses

2. Not spoting ship in render view but only minimap 

3. Redesign of basically all maps

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I can say pretty confidently that I am a DD main who absolutely hates the dependency that teams have on DDs and can't stand others who play DD whining about anything that can counter them even a little bit (because, you know, having 5.4 km concealment and running around the map with impunity, disengaging and engaging at will almost unchallenged, is a wet dream for some people). However, the changes proposed here even to me seem a bit out of left field. With subs being introduced to the game, the last thing we need is to have always-on radars. It's another game mechanic for the majority of the playerbase not to understand.

 

It's already tough enough for battleship mains to understand the value of shooting radar cruisers when they can. What makes you think others would be focusing on damaging radar modules on ships? In that case, CVs would do it by accident all the time. It seems like a very tough idea for WG to balance, and there are enough balancing issues as it is, especially with the release of Colbert and Ohio on the horizon.

 

I like the status quo. I know most DDs would rather radar not exist, but I am of the opinion that it's not a big deal, is simple enough to outplay, can be mitigated with minimal map awareness (unless you are unfortunate enough to end up against a double Moskva+triple Des Moines division team, as I have once), and promotes more challenging and appropriate DD gameplay. Sometimes, when I am playing other classes and am very tired of how completely bonkers my team's DDs play (i.e., YOLOing and all dying within 3 minutes of match start), I take out my radar Minotaur and take my revenge on the class as a whole, all while enjoying a nice dip in my karma for it. 

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6 hours ago, MacArthur92 said:

Hmm but that island blocking isn't hard to do and it's not "overcomplicating" one (lol) in comparison to the damageble radar. It's long time to implement it cause it needs rework of islands (yay another reeeeework) but it's not complicated. 

 

Remember what the target audience is.

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