HMS Agincourt - Tier 5 battleship

[RadioFighterYR]

Again, I know the Agincourt has been requested a lot, but I decided to give it slightly more elaboration as to what exactly it could be in game. So as it is, Tier 5 battleship Agincourt:

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Survivability: 56600 hit points. We'll return to that in a few rows of text.

Her armor belt ranged from 102mm to 229mm, the thickest point being in the middle, tapering down to 152mm and then to 102mm on either end. The deck ranged from 25mm to 64mm. Barbettes went up to 229mm in their upper parts and were up to 51mm armored in their lower ends (which suggests that in a penetration in the lower end, a turret gets out of function). The turrets ranged from 203mm to 305mm. Superstructure can remain standard 16-19mm as is for most battleships on its tier. Conning tower was up to 305mm thick, though with its huge superstructure this doesn't really matter. Extremities standard for tier 5 battleship, 19mm bow and stern except for the extended belt.

I'm not sure what's with the citadel and if it's above, under or right at the waterline but her belt armor seems rather weak when we talk about a Koenig and its 356mm belt + turtleback, which is the reason I give it a massive bag of 56600 hit points, more than even the Kongo. The idea is that much like the Nagato, it should be able to survive longer relying on its health pool.

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Primary armament. 7 double 305mm/45 cal.
These guns are practically tier 3 guns and their AP is worthless for killing some tougher battleships at their own tier, let alone two tiers up at tier 5 They are slightly different from Bellerophon's 12-inch 45's and are the same guns the Mikasa used after being rearmed in 1908. As useless as their AP is, I'd touch their accuracy and increase alpha damage by 100 so it becomes 8.2k. The accuracy buff is so that it can be a very effective cruiser killer. Also, the HE can recieve about 5.2k alpha and maybe give it a fire chance of 35% so that if the ship cannot kill BBs with armor piercing, it can at least blaze them. Reload can be standard half a minute. Range can go between 14.5 to 16.5, any number in between is reasonable to me, but if I would be to opt for a longer range, I'd dramatically decrease accuracy there so that cruisers don't cry for being deleted from almost 17km away. Turret traverse can be another balancing factor, maybe it should have Orion/Iron Duke's 72 sec.

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Secondary armament. 20x single 152mm guns and 10 single 76mm guns. Not much to say here as secondary range at these tiers is so bad (Iron Duke, its supposed tier 5 counterpart, has 4.5km for example) that even if you have a million guns, they won't do anything. But at least it has them... *looking at you, New York with 3 secondaries per side*

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Anti-aircraft armament. There were no planes in WWI! It's just ridiculous to think that a plane could attack a ship!
Honestly, my only hope that it'd have ANY of that at all is if the 76mm guns are dual-purpose (of which I am not entirely sure). Or if WG makes a fictional 30s Agincourt upgrade. Otherwise? What AA armament!?

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Mobility: What mobility? At least 710-720m turning circle for its length. Couple that with the speed of 22 knots... er, no. I'd try to unhistorically increase the speed to at least 23.5 or 24 knots so at least there it's not absolutely terrible.

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Personally I see the Agincourt as a very good cruiser killer with its 14 guns. Its armor, penetration and gun angles simply don't allow it to fight battleships at its own tier, except maybe if it's another Agincourt. The armor is sturdy enough to stop cruiser rounds, and with 14 guns it'd at least hit one citadel per salvo, or a lot of penetrations to cruisers. It should always be operating closely with a ship with good AA (which at low tiers is rare) and its speed would be fairly decent at tier if it has this unhistorical buff. It should absolutely avoid tier 7 battleships (actually battleships at all) if possible, but in a pinch, the 35% fire chance HE I suggested could do some work too.

Last time when I made such a thread (USS Tennessee) it turned out to be wrongly balanced according to the ones who commented on my thread. Please explain me whether this ship can be decently balanced as I made it.

[Spellfire40]

Nah they probably sell it under her 1st name in a fictinal upgrade to please the rather active turkish cominity to make more bucks....... ,-))))

[Hanse77SWE]

22 kts. and 12'' guns.

 

I was thinking more like T4.

[lafeel]

7 minutes ago, Hanse77SWE said:

22 kts. and 12'' guns.

 

I was thinking more like T4.

Same, even with 14 of them.

[RadioFighterYR]

1 minute ago, Hanse77SWE said:

22 kts. and 12'' guns.

 

I was thinking more like T4.

That could do, but Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya also has 12-inch guns (two less, but more powerful). She has the AA to stay at tier 5 though, while this doesn't. At tier 4 I feel like 14 guns is too much though. So it's more of a balance nightmare.

[DanSilverwing]

*Monarch cries with only 53,900 HP*

 

Agincourt becomes every T4 and T6 CV's b***h

 

Maybe T4 and a more realistic ~40k HP

[RadioFighterYR]

Just now, DanSilverwing said:

*Monarch cries with only 53,900 HP*

 

Agincourt becomes every T4 and T6 CV's b***h

 

Maybe T4 and a more realistic ~40k HP

Perhaps, but the armor is bad as I mentioned. 229mm is bad for tier 4, I'm pretty sure there's plenty of ships with thicker belts than that. That's why I gave it a massive health pool.

[zFireWyvern]

16 minutes ago, RadioFighterYR said:

That could do, but Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya also has 12-inch guns (two less, but more powerful). She has the AA to stay at tier 5 though, while this doesn't. At tier 4 I feel like 14 guns is too much though. So it's more of a balance nightmare.

Not really much of a nightmare, I've said it before, Agincourt is balanced out at tier IV because of her poor armour, large size, relatively slow speed coupled with a wide turning circle due to her length and lack of AA

[invicta2012]

Agincourt - or the Gin Palace, as she was known - was a poor design. She would be absurdly vulnerable to torpedoes as the Brazilian navy had put crew comfort above internal subdivision, and she had approximately half the number of watertight compartments compared to a similar RN Dreadnought. 

 

If you're after a memorable RN BB with strong guns and lighter armour then Canada is a better bet: 10x14 inch guns, with similar performance to KGV's, would be no joke at Tier V. 

[RadioFighterYR]

1 minute ago, invicta2012 said:

Agincourt - or the Gin Palace, as she was known - was a poor design. She would be absurdly vulnerable to torpedoes as the Brazilian navy had put crew comfort above internal subdivision, and she had approximately half the number of watertight compartments compared to a similar RN Dreadnought. 

 

If you're after a memorable RN BB with strong guns and lighter armour then Canada is a better bet: 10x14 inch guns, with similar performance to KGV's, would be no joke at Tier V. 

At least to me HMS Canada seems like a slightly better New York. It has, as I see, the same guns as the Fuso. If it got the same range, it'd be a great battleship though.

[lafeel]

5 minutes ago, RadioFighterYR said:

At least to me HMS Canada seems like a slightly better New York. It has, as I see, the same guns as the Fuso. If it got the same range, it'd be a great battleship though.

A more accurate description would be a "slightly better Iron Duke" actually.

[Hanse77SWE]

26 minutes ago, RadioFighterYR said:

That could do, but Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya also has 12-inch guns (two less, but more powerful). She has the AA to stay at tier 5 though, while this doesn't. At tier 4 I feel like 14 guns is too much though. So it's more of a balance nightmare.

Naaaah...bad angles and dispersion will take care of that. She's not that different from Wyoming.

[Sargento_YO]

Tier 4 (hell, should be rather tier 3,75)

[Tyrendian89]

42 minutes ago, RadioFighterYR said:

Perhaps, but the armor is bad as I mentioned. 229mm is bad for tier 4, I'm pretty sure there's plenty of ships with thicker belts than that. That's why I gave it a massive health pool.

raw thickness of your main armour belt is one of the single least relevant characteristics in this game - with a few exceptions (such as Scharnhorst 11"ers, or max range hits against a Yam's massive sloped slab of nope) BB guns generally just go through if flat broadside is shown and other guns dont. That's why angling is the one and only* important defensive maneuver outside of just not getting shot, and then it's mostly about that 30° auto riccochet angle.

 

*exaggerating a bit obviously

[RadioFighterYR]

1 minute ago, Tyrendian89 said:

raw thickness of your main armour belt is one of the single least relevant characteristics in this game - with a few exceptions (such as Scharnhorst 11"ers, or max range hits against a Yam's massive sloped slab of nope) BB guns generally just go through if flat broadside is shown and other guns dont. That's why angling is the one and only* important defensive maneuver outside of just not getting shot, and then it's mostly about that 30° auto riccochet angle.

 

*exaggerating a bit obviously

Players at tiers 3-5 broadside a lot though. They even broadside at later tiers too but...

[Tyrendian89]

25 minutes ago, RadioFighterYR said:

Players at tiers 3-5 broadside a lot though. They even broadside at later tiers too but...

true enough - for newer players belt thickness is more important I suppose. I'd argue it still pales in comparison to things like citadel layout when it comes to overall survivability, or even the presence or lack of an armoured deck to protect against the five million cruisers you'll run into, but... yeah point taken.

[CptBarney]

6km on secondaries with accuracy buff pls.

[lovelacebeer]

I would love to see her in game but with so many guns probably tier 5 or 6 unless dispersion was poor

[BLUB__BLUB]

4 hours ago, RadioFighterYR said:

That could do, but Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya also has 12-inch guns (two less, but more powerful). She has the AA to stay at tier 5 though, while this doesn't. At tier 4 I feel like 14 guns is too much though. So it's more of a balance nightmare.

Slower reload, troll dispersion and less range will do the trick.

[Synth_FG]

4 hours ago, lafeel said:

Same, even with 14 of them.

As the OP indicates, the guns are not very good, and the armour is terrible

She's T4 simply because of the number of guns 

Putting her in the same tier as Iron Duke and letting her face T7's would be a sad joke

[gustywinds]

They could do a USS Boise/Nuevo de Julio with this and have a British and Pan American version.

14 guns would be a hoot - I love Lyon when the RNGesus favours me.

[pzkpfwv1d]

7 hours ago, gustywinds said:

They could do a USS Boise/Nuevo de Julio with this and have a British and Pan American version.

14 guns would be a hoot - I love Lyon when the RNGesus favours me.

You forgot the Turkish version, she had 3 names in her short career and those secondaries would be any destroyers nightmare if WG would treat them properly

[LastButterfly]

13 hours ago, Spellfire40 said:

Nah they probably sell it under her 1st name in a fictinal upgrade to please the rather active turkish cominity to make more bucks....... ,-))))

 

Her first name was Rio de Janeiro.

She was not initially built for Turkey you know ? 

[BlackYeti]

13 hours ago, RadioFighterYR said:

That could do, but Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya also has 12-inch guns (two less, but more powerful). She has the AA to stay at tier 5 though, while this doesn't. At tier 4 I feel like 14 guns is too much though. So it's more of a balance nightmare.

Sigma 1.4, 72s turret traverse, I can see it balanced for t4. She has no place at t5 without a fictional AA refit.

[RAHJAILARI]

13 hours ago, Spellfire40 said:

Nah they probably sell it under her 1st name in a fictinal upgrade to please the rather active turkish cominity to make more bucks....... ,-))))

Weel, I would not mind either way to be honest. As long as I get it... Maybe they can make its name and nationality optional or something?