Community hate and racism against CVs

[DiceTea]

Dear Wargaming,

 

I would like to tell you many things, but I will try and keep it professional since I hope for an actual answer. One time, please.

I understand you do not want to invest everything into the game maintenance because it is easier to add new content to monetize than to actually look into problems (see newest reddit post; Most of the top accounts of the island campaign were bots, and you banned not a single one.) While I do understand that it is more profitable in the short term for you as a company to generate fast revenue, do you really think that by ignoring problems you will keep your current playerbase? I am a CV player (or was. I adapted after 0.80 but since 0.85 I stopped). I still love this class though.

 

This brings me to the CV rework. The following image sums up what I feel.

:

Most good CV RTS players flatout quit:

Most people playing during RTS times either did not touch carriers, or were significantly worse than others. I myself was terrible for 2000 games, before I started to actually pay ANY attention to game mechanics. I practiced for half a year minimum and constantly got owned. I went to training rooms with hymnxblade, Adam_1000, fara...many really good players took time for me and showed me how to play properly. I never reached their level or could beat them, but I became quite ok.  Most of the really good players are gone now. Adam stopped, hymnxblade quit and fara can sometimes be met on the chinese server. I lost many, many friends in this game. I still have contact to some, but others just quit and disappeared. So, in summary, of the really good players, 80 % flatout left the game. I understand the community is not aware of this, since they never cared about this "niche group" in the first place.

 

I understand your motivation behind this. You wanted to cater to the bigger crowed, the average playerbase. I strongly disliked it, because just when I had become good, you invalidated my efforts and took everything away. But I understand the intentions from an economical perspective. You wanted to motivate the masses.

 

Current state and perception of "good vs bad" players:

State: It has been several months. The rework is still not even close to being finished, and I doubt you will ever finish it, personally. I hope you at least find a way to balance AA and CV gameplay though. It seems to me you have been becoming increasingly desperate. The last patch 0.85 quite frankly was an INSULT. I understand you want to "beta test" your stuff. That is why you have a test server (which, when people use it, is still largelz ignored, but that is another matter and has enough threads. You should check reddit more). But basically, you brought it out without even adapting AR or the plane heal. Basically, you rolled it out in a non-finished state. IF you put out an update, at least adapt the most common abilities. The "hotfix" of 10% HP was a numerical nonsense in itself, but well. E for effort. You put out an unfinished product with the attitude "yes, we didnt fix anything. We just changed the AA system, but you already own your carriers, so there is nothing you can do about it. Sit down and swallow (the pill, dear Wargaming. What else could I have possibly meant)." Currently, plane loss is unacceptable. Before that, in NONE of these patches did you find the sought after "ssweet spot" to balance CVs, in a positive or negative way. If a person continously fails to do something, would you trust him or her to be successful next time? Which is why I doubt this will ever happen.

Perception: Apart from what people try to tell you, if you play solo, which most people do, it is significantly easier to "win" a game  (influencing towards a positive match outcome for the team) with any other ship than with a CV.  One of the main reasons is that "winning" does not depend on overall damage. On the contrary, the longer a game drags on, the more damage you can make. Winning is influenced by 2 things mainly, which you are well aware:

1. Taking out key targets (radar, dd, stretegically impostant ships) and 2. doing damage QUICKLY. If you kill 3 ships instantly, your overall firepower is remaining while focusing less enemies, resulting in a quicker game, a more likely win and less overall damage per player of the winning team. Regarding CV damage, which is where the different perceptions originate: Yes, I know it was possible to get 110 - 150k rounds if you were doing well on a regular basis. Still, I am a bad BB player. But I know BB players who averagely get 180k easily (those are tier X numbers). So, apart from public perception, on a high level CV play is just less influential than other ships. If you play in a division, it is different. But if you play solo: most people are potatoes, and it is averagely better to trust in yourself than to trust in your team. Spotting the DD is nice, but not if people fail to hit it. Now I understand that again, you care about the average player. Someone will bring this up anyway, and I am aware. The reason why "averagely" CVs still seem to do a lot of damage is that bad players can stay safe and still farm damage, whereas in a normal ship they would already have been farmed long ago. CVs are unique. The biggest noobs can stay safe and still get damage, which is impossible in any other ship.

This is the explanation between the percieved "CV useless" attitude from good CV players (who experience their play severely nerfed to being actually useless)  and the "but CV is still doing a lot of average dmg!" from non CV loving players.

 

Community:

edited  (which btw, is my country). I am constantly reported just for playing CV. Many people have not accepted that is is part of the game. Many people dislike you, but as a CV you get open hate in nearly every game. Some people feel you need to do this, some people feel you need to do that. If you dont give a person who requests fighters support, crying and report. You fail to spot a DD, crying and report. Dozends of examples. I CAN PLAY THIS GAME HOWEVER I LIKE. That is a core preogative. If any other player in any other ships fails, people might realise it, but do not hate them in chat nearly as much. As CV, you stay alive longer than average. That means you already get more reports (becuase we all know, people report much more likely towards the end of a game when thez percive "someone lost their game" instead of reporthing the noob dd that ran into the radar at min 1 and was executed).

But on top of that, I get reports for just playing my shipclass. It is RACISM IN WOWS. CV players are the minority, being hunted, hated and insulted.

You do absolutely nothing to protect us. You realized you introduced a hard to balance element, but you DID introduce it. So man up and defend the people who enjoy it. Additionally, since there is no "percieved counterplay" against planes and people become frustrated faster, not even seeing what they did wrong to be bombed in the first place - again more hate. Most people still do not play CVs, they dont understand how it feels to lose all your planes in this new AA - again more hate. Most people have played DD, BB, CA CL. But many didnt touch CVs. They will thus even more likey report and flame "The CV", because he is not part of the "group of ships they play and understand (a little)."

 

We are being systematically discriminated as a minority, and you are the state here. So it is your job to protect minorities from this. So FIX it. Every 1.5th game I play CV it starts with "OMG, CV game", followed by "CV spot this, CV spot that, OMG noob CV, report!". Instead of making videois about armor angles, maybe you should make a video about manners and defend the thing YOU created, which people like ME happen(ed) to enjoy.

 

I personally have lost a lot of motivation to play this game. And only half of it is due to the fact that you first reworked my favourite shipclass and then nerfed it to a point where other ships are just more viable (stop freaking, I said more viable, I didnt say CVs are useless). The other 50% are due to the fact that I dont want to play a game in which I am insulted for being me and chosing my ship. When you play a shooter, nobody starts the game with "OMG, a medic" followed by reports, blackmail to report if you dont go here or there and general flame about your character choice.

 

Games should be fun. Balancing is one thing (at thins point I have to congratulate you - "we will never implement submarines into the game". ). Being constantly discriminated for just chosing CV is another. Do not pretend the problem does not exist. 

 

[anonym_Wl2ej1ad8jEc]

Comparing CV players to jews in Nazi Germany? Good grief man what is wrong with you!?! 

A bit overly dramatic dont you think? 

[ColonelPete]

Racism vs CV.... 

 

The whining on the forum found a new low and that is BY FAR not the worst statement in that post

[Procrastes]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

 

[DiceTea]

1 minute ago, Snautzi said:

A bit overly dramatic dont you think? 

Obviously it is overly dramatic. I thought this was evident. This should be evident to every person who barely finished high school and has an IQ higher than his body temperature. 

 

It is the principle. You are being flamed for BEING a CV. The game hasnt even started, and the flame goes up. People do not look at the individual, they see your choice of ship and the flame starts. And being hated for just existing takes the fun out of the game completely.

 

Did you ever see a game start "OMG, a DD, report!!" Did you? No. We as CV players are being hated for who we are, due to the giant gap between CV lovers and CV haters.

And that my friend, is pure prejudice. It is a negative feeling towards ALL CV players from the majority of the (non CV playing) community. You dont even have to play. You are hated for being in the game.

[Episparh]

In before it's closed

 

[RAHJAILARI]

Well, personally I do not play CV's much but I definitely still want them in the game and have no problems thereof. However I do understand the sentiment, there are indeed plenty of "Haters" out there, but of course there are also DD-haters and BB-haters too so I guess that's not something entirely unheard of also among other players. Though I do admit that it's likely CV's actually do get most of the hate-mail, simply because lots of people do no know how to deal with them and get frequently targeted, as a result (especially the Yolo-players, I would suspect).

 

Ahh, sadly C'est la vie my friend. So don't let that disturb you, it don't matter anyhow. Never mind and just keep on playing!

 

However, I do feel that we should be guaranteed at least 1 CV every game, occasionally (not all the time, mind you, still want to be able to play those ships with weaker AA also) 2 is fine also, just to make it interesting and give strong AA ships some challenge. But yeah 3 is definitely too much to handle.

[You_Overextended]

As a Jew myself, it is very difficult to empathize with you when you draw absurd comparisons like these. However, I will let it slide and pretend you didn't say that, adding the following response to your original thoughts:

I don't think that the CV rework is necessarily a bad thing, honestly. But that's pre-0.8.5 me speaking. After that, it became a bit more of a chore, yes, but you can still win games in CV. You just have to be more patient than usual. However, I will grant that I've found myself winning a hell of a lot more in DDs or cruiser than CVs. The only class I really struggle with is BBs (all that torpedo/IFHE spam is very frustrating, but that is because I tend to overextend and get caught out in fights I probably shouldn't have committed to even though my name is You_Overextended :)))) ).

 

This is why I have largely abandoned CVs, though I do play them once in awhile.

[Bear__Necessities]

Just wow....

 

Just. Wow. Comparing playing pixels on a screen to F GENOCIDE.

 

Ohhhhh and btw the. 6 compliments for me in this gem.

 

 

 

[BanzaiPiluso]

Too much. You must be suffering alright, but this is a bit over the top.

[Bellegar]

15 minutes ago, Pametrada said:

 

Congratulations. That really is the most stupid bloody thing I've ever read in this forum.

Not just this forum, the entire internet. And I've seen some stupid things on the internet

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Just ignore them.

Make fun of them while blapping their DDs.

Say yes to support requests but ignore them afterwards.

Spam "Well Done!" In all chat whenever one of your DDs die to the enemy CV.

Man up. Show them what happens if what they call you becomes a reality

[RAHJAILARI]

10 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

Just ignore them.

Make fun of them while blapping their DDs.

Say yes to support requests but ignore them afterwards.

Spam "Well Done!" In all chat whenever one of your DDs die to the enemy CV.

Man up. Show them what happens if what they call you becomes a reality

OH NOES!! And here you go again teaching innocent Nippers those purely evil habits of yours.

OH HUMANITY!!!

[Bellegar]

26 minutes ago, DiceTea said:

It is RACISM IN WOWS. CV players are the minority, being hunted, hated and insulted.

 

This is nonsense, we don't hate you. We hate your ships.

[Bansidhe]

The OP has his terms mixed up.

 

Spoiler

 

[Hanse77SWE]

IMHO CVs shouldn't have been in the game at all.

 

Yes, alot of RTS CV-players left and I might do the same when/if subs come.

 

Things change. Accept it and move on.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 4 Minuten, RAHJAILARI sagte:

OH NOES!! And here you go again teaching the innocent Nippers those purely evil habits of yours.

OH HUMANITY!!!

We are CV.

CV know no humanity.

 

[DiceTea]

3 minutes ago, Bellegar said:

This is nonsense, we don't hate you. We hate your ships.

I know;). But most people do not react to a topic unless you make it provocative. I made several attempts to get a reaction. Nothing. So I used the proverbial means dramaturgy. I want to see reactions, at least some positive. I am well aware that most people will either go "OMG how can you compare that" due to their inability to even comprehend the slightest stilistic elements, and even more will downvote simply because it is a whining CV player. But I rather see a few positive and supporting people than none at all. 

[Egoleter]

3 minutes ago, DiceTea said:

I want to see reactions, at least some positive.

The reaction you'll see is the closing of this thread and maybe a warning or ban on top.

 

Yeah... in before the

[anonym_Wl2ej1ad8jEc]

3 minutes ago, DiceTea said:

 a whining CV player.

Is now thoroughly our opinion of you after that sobstory.

[Bellegar]

10 minutes ago, DiceTea said:

I know;). But most people do not react to a topic unless you make it provocative. I made several attempts to get a reaction. Nothing. So I used the proverbial means dramaturgy. I want to see reactions, at least some positive. I am well aware that most people will either go "OMG how can you compare that" due to their inability to even comprehend the slightest stilistic elements, and even more will downvote simply because it is a whining CV player. But I rather see a few positive and supporting people than none at all. 

You failed. I stopped reading as soon as I spotted those moronic statements.

[Redcap375]

CV players always had this in some form.since when I played beta.

 

However, I had so many compliments when I played the old style and that was the difference. All my clan mates wanted me to play was CVs.lol. Now no one wants them at all regardless.

 

Back then you actively helped the team either through spotting, damage or fighters stopping their drops. Nothing is better than seeing you destroy a wave from hitting a friendly BB and the BB player saying Thanks. When was the last time they did that to you? Say thanks?

 

Thats because CVs are now a selfish class and hence why your will always be singled out.

 

As for the skill bit, I completely understand. All us old cv understand but that's now the past mate.

 

We were never what WG wanted to make money, the masses were. They couldn't care less about skill mate, just money.

 

It's now console ready.

 

CVs were the best support class, now it's the most selfish class. It's not your fault, its WG for making them this way. That's why I sold every single CV I had for gold. I know what they had turned into and I'm not that kind of selfish player. That and it's increably boring with graphics over any sense of gameplay.

 

My advice? Get rid and move on. It's no worth the hassle and to live in the past..

[pion72]

39 minutes ago, Procrastes said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

I only learnt about Poe's law the other day and now this! It's great when someone with a bit of knowledge defines something you kinda intuitively felt but had never really expanded or expressed. It's funny when internet debates breakdown into how you are arguing rather than the subject.

[Episparh]

11 minutes ago, Redcap375 said:

CV players always had this in some form.since when I played beta.

 

However, I had so many compliments when I played the old style and that was the difference. All my clan mates wanted me to play was CVs.lol. Now no one wants them at all regardless.

 

Back then you actively helped the team either through spotting, damage or fighters stopping their drops. Nothing is better than seeing you destroy a wave from hitting a friendly BB and the BB player saying Thanks. When was the last time they did that to you? Say thanks?

 

Thats because CVs are now a selfish class and hence why your will always be singled out.

 

As for the skill bit, I completely understand. All us old cv understand but that's now the past mate.

 

We were never what WG wanted to make money, the masses were. They couldn't care less about skill mate, just money.

 

It's now console ready.

 

Good CVs were complimented by their team and reported by the enemies. It was so then, it is so now. Farming damage with current CV is same as farming damage from the border with Conqueror... The ships have the tools, it is up to the players how they use them. 

 

The only difference now is that a good CV cannot grant you victory, so when the CV spot a DD you should focus it. When 2 Minotaurs park in the middle of map, you should clear them and so on... 

[SkollUlfr]

i woudl get liver failure trying to drink myself down to the level of govno in the op