Detection question

[EzPz51]

Almost every match I get detected in my DD by line of sight of enemy DD's when I should detect them first, I start wondering and wondering more what am I missing.

So I will tell what I do and maybe someone has an idea what I am missing.

 

I play a DD, before the match starts I check in team-members overview the concealment of the enemy DD's.

I still get detected every match before I can detect them even if their concealment is worse then mine (red bar shows when I mouse over them)

 

I am purely talking about the cases that are line of sight detection. So no radar. hydro, smoke, islands. airplanes,  shooting cannons, AA are involved. Just sailing across the sea doing nothing until detection mark pops up.

 

I even tested it when it happened again. I was the most concealed DD in my Kitakaze  6600m (with a -3% camo).

There is no CV in the match, yet I sail across open sea with my AA turned off, I spot a BB, move closer, I get detected. No CA near, no radar, no one shooting, torping or whatever, just sailing, doing nothing.

So I turn in toward the BB and hope to see what ship detected me. And yes at about 5km distance a Yugumo shows up, with a -3% camo shows up.

Yugomu 7000m (with -3% camo 6800m)

 

How is that possible? Why don't I spot him before he detects me?

[ollonborre]

Concealment expert and concealment module. The former is a skill you should have at around tier 6 and the latter is mandatory on 97% of ships from tier 8+. Also those ratings mean jackshit and should always be ignored. All that matters are raw values in the respective category.

[DFens_666]

7 minutes ago, EzPz51 said:

Almost every match I get detected in my DD by line of sight of enemy DD's when I should detect them first, I start wondering and wondering more what am I missing.

So I will tell what I do and maybe someone has an idea what I am missing.

 

I play a DD, before the match starts I check in team-members overview the concealment of the enemy DD's.

I still get detected every match before I can detect them even if their concealment is worse then mine (red bar shows when I mouse over them)

 

I am purely talking about the cases that are line of sight detection. So no radar. hydro, smoke, islands. airplanes,  shooting cannons, AA are involved. Just sailing across the sea doing nothing until detection mark pops up.

 

I even tested it when it happened again. I was the most concealed DD in my Kitakaze  6600m (with a -3% camo).

There is no CV in the match, yet I sail across open sea with my AA turned off, I spot a BB, move closer, I get detected. No CA near, no radar, no one shooting, torping or whatever, just sailing, doing nothing.

So I turn in toward the BB and hope to see what ship detected me. And yes at about 5km distance a Yugumo shows up, with a -3% camo shows up. 

Yugomu 7000m (with -3% camo 6800m)

 

How is that possible? Why don't I spot him before he detects me?

 

Ignore those stat comparision pre-battle. They are totaly useless.

6,6km in your Kitakaze is bad compared to other DDs. Yugumo detection should be 5,5 at best with Concealment module, Concealment expert and Camo. 7km is base value (with Camo i believe), but doesnt include CE and the module.

 

[Episparh]

@EzPz51 https://wowsft.com/ is an awesome site where you can experiment with all ships, modules and commander skills.  Go check the fitting tool and how concealment is affected by the module and skill @ollonborre mentioned. 

[EzPz51]

Thanks people for the responses (and the link).

 

So that pre-battle overview is useless, that clears up a lot.

That throw me off completely, it was driving me insane, haha.

 

[xxNihilanxx]

If you have 6.6km on the Kitakaze you are missing either the Concealment Expert skill or the Concealment Module as a Kita is capable of getting it's detection down to 5.9km with both plus camo. The Yugumo will still outspot you but only by 400m which means that, all being well, by the time he notices your ship you will have closed that distance and will be able to see him too at which point it is lunchtime and you just got a free DD kill.

[Sir_Grzegorz]

This pre battle comparison is not totally useless, it just not takes under consideration the captain skills.

Just assume enemy concealment is better by 4, so they have CE on captain (it is not exact but if you do not remember all the ship values it is an indication).

I was convinced that they will remove it soon, but no idea where I have seen that info.

[lossi_2018]

9 hours ago, EzPz51 said:

Almost every match I get detected in my DD by line of sight of enemy DD's when I should detect them first, I start wondering and wondering more what am I missing.

So I will tell what I do and maybe someone has an idea what I am missing.

 

I play a DD, before the match starts I check in team-members overview the concealment of the enemy DD's.

I still get detected every match before I can detect them even if their concealment is worse then mine (red bar shows when I mouse over them)

 

I am purely talking about the cases that are line of sight detection. So no radar. hydro, smoke, islands. airplanes,  shooting cannons, AA are involved. Just sailing across the sea doing nothing until detection mark pops up.

 

I even tested it when it happened again. I was the most concealed DD in my Kitakaze  6600m (with a -3% camo).

There is no CV in the match, yet I sail across open sea with my AA turned off, I spot a BB, move closer, I get detected. No CA near, no radar, no one shooting, torping or whatever, just sailing, doing nothing.

So I turn in toward the BB and hope to see what ship detected me. And yes at about 5km distance a Yugumo shows up, with a -3% camo shows up.

Yugomu 7000m (with -3% camo 6800m)

 

How is that possible? Why don't I spot him before he detects me?

Captain skills. He has a better one. And you're missing modules you should have 5.9 in Kita i think

[BrusilovX]

8 minutes ago, lossi_2018 said:

Captain skills. He has a better one. And you're missing modules you should have 5.9 in Kita i think

Yes, 5.9km is the value to aim for on the Kitekaze (camo and CE).

[ollonborre]

36 minutes ago, Sir_Grzegorz said:

This pre battle comparison is not totally useless, it just not takes under consideration the captain skills.

Which makes it useless as captain skills and modules are the big equalizer. For example the reload mod does not increase the artillery rating but the range mod does. And in almost all cases the reload mod is a superiour choice. 

 

The rating thing needs a complete overhaul or should just be ignored completely.

[Beaker71]

20 minutes ago, ollonborre said:

Which makes it useless as captain skills and modules are the big equalizer. For example the reload mod does not increase the artillery rating but the range mod does. And in almost all cases the reload mod is a superiour choice. 

 

The rating thing needs a complete overhaul or should just be ignored completely.

 

It is pretty useless.

 

It does (or did) show differences between the same ships - i guess it must be only at the module level or perhaps different hulls - if the captain skills aren't counted. Often wondered if the stats it showed varied depending if the player loaded into the battle before me or not.

 

Be useful if  "proper stats" could be accessed once the game had started, and also included a few bits of info like sonar/radar ranges. Although i know most of them it's harder when new ship lines come out.

[oosel]

i dont often see kitas alone anymore they always seem to go in pairs and tear other dd's to shreds then scarper off to find their next victim......

 

[Episparh]

3 hours ago, Beaker71 said:

 

It is pretty useless.

 

It does (or did) show differences between the same ships - i guess it must be only at the module level or perhaps different hulls - if the captain skills aren't counted. Often wondered if the stats it showed varied depending if the player loaded into the battle before me or not.

 

Be useful if  "proper stats" could be accessed once the game had started, and also included a few bits of info like sonar/radar ranges. Although i know most of them it's harder when new ship lines come out.

Some mods from official mod pack gives that information. Examples:

What is the maximum speed of ship

What is the maximum range of guns

What is actually torpedo ranges(so if I see Shima with 9.6km range I know he runs 12km and have captain skill for faster but shorter range) 

 

 

[Karasu_Browarszky]

I have various settings active on my minimap, and for DD's the detection radius is crucial (even if you do remember what yours is as you always should). Having said that it is still easy to underestimate your turning radius and enemy speed if you end up operating with a very narrow margin. You will know when that happens....