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AndyHill

Submarines: the next step.

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17 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

This

Game

Is 

Not 

A

Simulator

Of

WW2

No but it makes historial claims and if they are going to ignore them then we might as well drop the whole "warships"-part and call it "World-of-pixelblobs-that shoot-smaller-pixelblobs-at-other-pixelblobs!"

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3 minutes ago, Hanse77SWE said:

No but it makes historial claims and if they are going to ignore them then we might as well drop the whole "warships"-part and call it "World-of-pixelblobs-that shoot-smaller-pixelblobs-at-other-pixelblobs!"

But we have mixed nations in teams, not a national battles like in WW2. It’s an arcade game!

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8 minutes ago, Hanse77SWE said:

No but it makes historial claims and if they are going to ignore them then we might as well drop the whole "warships"-part and call it "World-of-pixelblobs-that shoot-smaller-pixelblobs-at-other-pixelblobs!"

Really?

hC9AFC1F1

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Ok so sky is falling again. Fine.

 

I am curious to see what WG comes up with. Other Naval themed arcade game managed subs as well so let’s see. Yes speed will be higher than historical  - so what. 

 

Will certainly sign into the sub mode for testing. Subs are straight forward in the context of this game - counterplay isn’t and that is what will determine how well subs work in this game 

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11 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

This

Game

Is 

Not 

A

Simulator

Of

WW2

While this is true and I keep telling players to do away with the realism arguments, the mechanics of WoWs do not support dealing with those two threats at the same time. The whole game is about positioning and exploiting angles. CVs destroy this unique gameplay the moment they are in a battle. They don't follow any of the rules that apply to the other ship classes and for some reason WG still tries to balance them with AA values after it didn't work out for half a year since the rework first dropped.

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1 minute ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Will certainly sign into the sub mode for testing. Subs are straight forward in the context of this game - counterplay isn’t and that is what will determine how well subs work in this game 

I like the idea of submarines, too. Initially they should be looking at testing them vs a limited range of ships (Black Swan would be ideal) and really work on making the interaction between the subs and surface ships interesting and skill based. Random stuff like the original rework AA and secondaries is not what's needed, and neither do we need irritating stuff like homing torpedoes and the like... just think of them as destroyers and it'll be fine.

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LOL... I come back after 6 months break due to the idiotic carrier rework they introduced, and now that game is somewhat playable again I will have to leave due to even more idiotic ideas...

 

As usual, GG WarGaming. You never disappoint.

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22 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

Though still it's a speculation.

I'm sorry, but whoever thinks subs will stay in some separated mode or co-op/PvE only, is delusional and naive as a little child. Even if it turns out dodgy and unsatisfactory they'll find a way to introduce it to main game modes.

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

I like the idea of submarines, too. Initially they should be looking at testing them vs a limited range of ships (Black Swan would be ideal) and really work on making the interaction between the subs and surface ships interesting and skill based. Random stuff like the original rework AA and secondaries is not what's needed, and neither do we need irritating stuff like homing torpedoes and the like... just think of them as destroyers and it'll be fine.

 

Yep, stealthy Torpedo destroyers... wait :Smile_ohmy:

 

 

 

I am most curious about how surface ships are supposed to find and attack subs while submerged. I mean just balancing the dive time and have a sub invulnerable while submerged may be frustrating.

 

So will all DDs get hydro? And will spotter planes be able to detect submerged subs? This will be a fine line - but if implemented well it could be an interesting addition to the rather repetitive and simplistic core gameplay 

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2 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

This will be a fine line - but if implemented well it could be an interesting addition to the rather repetitive and simplistic core gameplay

 

You do realize WG balances ships not at all or by using a sledgehammer after spinning a wheel with random solutions written on it, right? And you think there's a chance for a good implementation instead of the mess they pull off normally? LOL

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3 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

I am most curious about how surface ships are supposed to find and attack subs while submerged. I mean just balancing the dive time and have a sub invulnerable while submerged may be frustrating.

Well.. working on the gameplay from the Halloween subs they had a choice of running depths and a limited air supply, so eventually they always had to come to the surface, and no doubt that would be the easiest way of finding them. ASDIC should be available as a consumable (rather than hydro) but (rather like the real thing) could only be used while running at half speed... you should get a flickering indication of the sub bearing and depth and have to move to that spot, toggle the depth selection on your charges and drop them. 

 

I honestly don't know how it goes into the main game - I'm looking for a Raptor Rescue/Dunkirk style mission first - but it could well be fun. And yes, definitely a role for CVs like Bogue, too. And Catalinas and Short Sunderlands. I could well abandon ships altogether for one of those.

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2 minutes ago, Stormhawk_V said:

 

You do realize WG balances ships not at all or by using a sledgehammer after spinning a wheel with random solutions written on it, right? And you think there's a chance for a good implementation instead of the mess they pull off normally? LOL

 

Yes I think it is possible and not even that hard 

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If they actually make the miracle happen and make them fun to play, fun to play against and balanced, they might be too fantasy for me, even in a very arcadey game like this. The release day might be the day I quit this game for good.

 

I needed a reason for quitting anyway. 

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4 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Yes I think it is possible and not even that hard 

Did you ever consider that it's not what they're going for? It was also not their intention when creating the reworked CVs, why should it be now?

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Does it hurt to give them a chance? If it doesn't work out then so be it, but better for having tried and failed than not having tried at all in this particular case. Diversifying the game content only keeps more people interested in playing it.

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35 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

But we have mixed nations in teams, not a national battles like in WW2. It’s an arcade game!

Yes! But then they can drop the whole "Warships" thing and call it whatever.

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57 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

This

Game

Is 

Not 

A

Simulator

Of

WW2

Also... guess where the planes that sank Arizona came from.

He might be thinking Hirohito spawned them out of his behind.

Errr... 

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1 minute ago, Hanse77SWE said:

Yes! But then they can drop the whole "Warships" thing and call it whatever.

 

TBH I think WG should introduce something else besides "here's 1-2-3-4 caps fight to t death" mode.

Subs and CVs can work... but will never be fun, like this. 

 

How hard can it be, they already have most running PvE in Operations.

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Just now, Shaka_D said:

Does it hurt to give them a chance? If it doesn't work out then so be it, but better for having tried and failed than not having tried at all in this particular case. Diversifying the game content only keeps more people interested in playing it.

The problem is if it doesn't work out then we're stuck with an unbalanced class that WG will buff over and over again just to get the development costs back in so they can justify the spending. That's the same situation the CVs are in now. They're bad for the gameplay, they're being balanced back and forth, WG doesn't really know what to do with them, but the players have to deal with the situation while WG is busy opening the next can of worms.

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24 minutes ago, allufewig said:

If they actually make the miracle happen and make them fun to play, fun to play against and balanced, they might be too fantasy for me, even in a very arcadey game like this. The release day might be the day I quit this game for good.

 

I needed a reason for quitting anyway. 

Yes, because it's not like you have a choice :Smile_great:

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45 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

I like the idea of submarines, too. Initially they should be looking at testing them vs a limited range of ships (Black Swan would be ideal) and really work on making the interaction between the subs and surface ships interesting and skill based. Random stuff like the original rework AA and secondaries is not what's needed, and neither do we need irritating stuff like homing torpedoes and the like... just think of them as destroyers and it'll be fine.

Adding a whole new class is really something else.

But at least there's other games where they could look for some inspiration in how it could be done.

But WG is good at one thing, and that is to consider concepts first and not to just yolo in (and I'm talking about ship designs and how they interact with the game and not the NTC stuff because to me it comes across as it doesn't really get much more yolo than that lol). I'm pretty sure they can figure out several concepts that will work in the game (and particularly their interaction with DDs which are supposed to be hunting them, along with CVs). I'm more worried about which concepts they end up picking.

 

But the question is more how they will make gameplay interesting for as large a group as possible while keeping it all balanced.

 

I think WG is doing quite well on the balancing department (especially when compared to a year or 2 ago) but sometimes their choices still seem really weird (just compare Thunderer to Ohio and the quite disastrous way that UK BBs are rebalanced).

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Hi all,

 

There is (as expected) huge discussion about his on Reddit as well:

 

 

 

There the @Sub_Octavian of WG answered at the start:

 

Quote

No, we're not finally finished with CV rework, but we're getting there, and apart from some specific things like Priority sector, all CV changes currently revolve around tuning the existing stuff. I'd say, we're mostly turning the knobs at the moment, even though quite radically sometimes, but the machine is already there, and we don't doubt that it will run smoothly after some additional tuning (sorry that it's taking more time than expected, and that we still had to do considerable changes several months after the update, I know that it puts additional stress on you guys).

 

With subs, we need to build and test the machine first. Finishing CV rework and starting submarines sit on opposite points of timeline. Basically, we need to go through the same stages again, but luckily we have much more experience now, thanks to CV rework bumpy ride. Hence, for example - "the new class will initially be available in a special separate battle type only and this final configuration stage will last for several months". That means that unlike 0.8.0 and CV rework, the game will not change overnight for the majority of the players. There will be safe and not time pressing option for everyone to try the new gameplay on the main server, without the hassle of test clients, accounts, NDA, etc. We will take it more careful and incremental, and do our best to avoid the negative moments of CV rework.

 

As for timing, please mind that the timeline is much longer than it may seem. It is not a usual "one update in advance" announcement in DevBlog. We basically confirmed that we're working on this stuff, but it does not mean it will hit any kind of public test tomorrow. We just felt it right to let you know we're up to something.

 

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

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58 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Ok so sky is falling again. Fine.

 

I am curious to see what WG comes up with. Other Naval themed arcade game managed subs as well so let’s see. Yes speed will be higher than historical  - so what. 

 

Will certainly sign into the sub mode for testing. Subs are straight forward in the context of this game - counterplay isn’t and that is what will determine how well subs work in this game 

My stance is to wait and see what they will come up with.

The halloween ones were really fun (but still Sunray is the best operation evah! :Smile_izmena:).

 

I guess you need to be a supertester to sign up for this? But tbh, the coming 'couple' months I will have a lot on my hands, so I probably wouldn't be able to spare some time for this anyway, alas.

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